Egwene's Ajah

[Sunrise Lord]

Egwene herself said she would have chosen the Green Ajah if she had been raised normally. I see her as being more Blue than Green, with the way she strives for her goals. Anyone feel differently?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited for spelling.

[Gabriel Kross]

she wanted green due to the conversation she had with Alanna after her accepted test (book 2 or 3 dont remember which)

[GB]

she also thinks at some point how the green sitters in the Hall are dragging their feet everytime when she should have expected their support being the ajah she would have picked

[jsbrads]

the Green Ajah is atypical, they love men, most women don't, most women have mixed feelings about men and don't unreservedly love men it is more condiitional, I was surprised by that as I grew up, I unreservedly love women, but it may be easier for men in general and more so in this society were strength, determination and justice are reparsed by some as brutishness, competitive and merciless.

[yoniy0]

Yes, I do think Egwene would fit better in the Blue. She's built for it, as you said, Sunrise. Alanna said the Green was about 'being prepared', if memory serves, but Egwene has no great facility there, for all that she strives for it (to name just two instances, she hardly used her influence in the Tower to prepare for a Seanchan invasion, thinking she would have time; and although the necessity of preparing for a meeting with Rand was pressed upon her months in advance, she didn't have a clear plan in her mind when it happened).

 

Now, Elayne, she definitely fits in the Green. Both calculating and reckless, the first to jump into every dangerous situation... she could use seasoning, but she's Battle Ajah to the core.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think prior to being Amyrlin and knowing anything about anything her reasons were kinda good.

 

1. Last Battle is comming, she wants to join Battle Ajah to be able to help out Rand and that at the Last Battle.

2. The whole "fondness" for men and marriage thing. At one point I am sure she thought she might bond Rand aswell as Gawyn or Galad. We don't see much of that "fondness" these days, but she hardly is a Red.

3. She's pretty pissed at the Seanchan, I suspect a part of it was wanting to kill some Seanchan when they attacked. Which she did a pretty nice job of when they attacked the Tower.

 

As the Amyrlin however, she has to be of ALL Ajah's. The whole battle thing is not really her forte now because she is so focused on Rand and trying to get the Aes Sedai to respect her authori-tah!.

[SparrowHawk]

I just read "A Vist From Verin Sedai" last night, and I think that chapter mentions that she wouldn't do well in the blue. It says that the blues are "too focused" and her personality reflects the green more, or something to that effect. I'm having trouble finding the quote.

 

On a side note, I did like how throughout her captivity in the WT, she showed her ability to be of all the Ajahs. Diplomacy in reuniting the factions(grey), arguing circles around Aes Sedai conventional wisdom in certain areas, and Elaida's actions(white), battling the Seanchan, and later, Mesanna and the BA(green), healing the tower in general(yellow), How she handled the meeting with Rand(red), rooting out the BA(brown?). I dunno, there's probably a better example of the brown, and I can't think of one for the blue right now. That's just how I like to think of it.

Any other thoughts on how her actions reflect the Ajahs?

[Pinzarn]

I think that Egwene's character developed into the "ideal" Armylin with Suian's help and her imprisonment. Seeing how the Armylin is supposed to be from all Ajahs, I don't think the early Egwene would have foot the bill too well. The later Egwene used the traits of each Ajah one her way to re-unifying the Tower. I can't really say that she used the Red's philosophies too much because what we saw of the Red was corrupted too much by the Black.

[mlva103]

Egwene is a warrior. Look at the Seanchan attack.

[Maleshub]

Egwene is a warrior. Look at the Seanchan attack.

 

In that scene, Egwene is the embodiment of the Green Ajah. She even put Adelorna, Captain-General of the Tower Greens, in line and had her following orders.

[yoniy0]

That is perhaps the only scene in which she embodies the Green. But I do agree, her being of all Ajahs and none was definitely a motif of TGS.

[rand4747]

yea i think she is kinda of all but she seems to have the "men" part of the green missing. They are just tools that can be used and thrown away.

[Kahsm]

Yes, I do think Egwene would fit better in the Blue. She's built for it, as you said, Sunrise. Alanna said the Green was about 'being prepared', if memory serves, but Egwene has no great facility there, for all that she strives for it (to name just two instances, she hardly used her influence in the Tower to prepare for a Seanchan invasion, thinking she would have time; and although the necessity of preparing for a meeting with Rand was pressed upon her months in advance, she didn't have a clear plan in her mind when it happened).

 

Now, Elayne, she definitely fits in the Green. Both calculating and reckless, the first to jump into every dangerous situation... she could use seasoning, but she's Battle Ajah to the core.

yea i think she is kinda of all but she seems to have the "men" part of the green missing. They are just tools that can be used and thrown away.

 

I don't think the men part is "offical" though, at least her conversation with Alanna, about what the greens are supposed to be about, seems to suggest it's a bastardization. It's supposed to be about standing ready to face _the shadow_ (not the seanchan, other unforeseeable foes, or some such readiness in general beyond staying battle-ready). And so they acquired a bunch of warders in order to protect themselves, and then it turned into a bunch of doey-eyed girls who loved buff men.

 

Not accepting the bastardization of the Greens doesn't preclude you from qualification. Just about everything Egwene does is in an attempt to be ready to face the shadow. Why would she be blue? She has no proclivity toward chasing myths and rumors the way Moiraine would. The fact that Egwene is very head-on is very much a Green trait, at least more than any other Ajah.

 

Then the rest is Amyrlin stuff, making the tower strong, bringing in all channelers, and trying to beat out the close-mindedness from the sisters.

 

Elayne is an odd one. I guess she almost has to be green by elimination. Though I highly doubt they'll be sending the Queen of Andor to stroll through the middle of battle fields. And she doesn't strike me as the commander type. Maybe I'm wrong on that, I don't care much for Elayne after all. Maybe an active gray? =)

[yoniy0]

Opposing the Shadow has little do to with being Green in particular; it's what being AS is about. Surly, Moiraine's 20 year crusade teaches us that much. How was it Vandene described the Blues? "Always so ready to save the world that you lose yourselves," well, Egwene definitely fits that bill. Also, she has a knack of manipulation... Seriously, though, it's not just that she has a facility for it, it's that it's her knee-jerk reaction. Just like Moiraine, keeping secrets for their own sake.

[David Selig]

Both Egwene and Elayne fit nicely in more than Ajah IMO.

 

Egwene with her political skills and stubborn single-mindedness in pursuit of a goal would be a great Blue. But she's a badass fighter which is more of a Green trait (in theory, since in practice they mostly suck). Her "I want to learn everything ASAP" attitude fits the Brown. Etc.

 

Elayne would've fit nicely as a Gray. It's mentioned plenty of times she's very good at being the peacemaker between her friends, has interest and excellent education in politics. Problem is as a Queen of Andor she'd be considered biased in many cases and won't be accepted where other Grays would.

 

She certainly has enough bravery for the Battle Ajah (even too much at times) and also an extensive education in military strategy by Gareth Bryne but for all the chasing of the Black Ajah around the map she very rarely got into actual fighting, her plotline has been mostly political for the last books. Lelaine even said to Egwene at one point that she was surprised Elayne chose Green since as a skilled politician Blue would've been the more logical choice. Of course, it wasn't much of a choice in the end due to having Birgitte as a Warder and wanting to bond Rand too.

 

On the other hand, given that in practice being Green seem more related to being hot, liking men and having handsome Warders , Elayne fits nicely.

[Maleshub]

yea i think she is kinda of all but she seems to have the "men" part of the green missing. They are just tools that can be used and thrown away.

 

Aside from a few tavern sessions kissing Gawyn, an untold number of (probably wet) dreams in Gawyn's dreams, an upcoming marriage to Gawyn, a few-years Platonic romance with Rand, and short infatuation with Galad, your statement is pretty accurate.

[yoniy0]

It's not about liking any specific man. It's about liking men in general, thinking that they're good for something, viewing them as partners rather than subordinates. That, I'm sorry to say, I'm not sure Egwene has (as opposed to Nynaeve, for example, who makes fun of them just as much, and yet her actions show her true beliefs). That's okay though, a modicum of arrogance can be fetching in a woman

[Sunrise Lord]

Opposing the Shadow has little do to with being Green in particular; it's what being AS is about. Surly, Moiraine's 20 year crusade teaches us that much. How was it Vandene described the Blues? "Always so ready to save the world that you lose yourselves," well, Egwene definitely fits that bill. Also, she has a knack of manipulation... Seriously, though, it's not just that she has a facility for it, it's that it's her knee-jerk reaction. Just like Moiraine, keeping secrets for their own sake.

 

I like this; it fits with the way I see Egwene. Though, at the beginning of the series, I could see where she fit the Green. But, as the series has progressed, her personality has become more "goal-oriented" so to speak--the defining characteristic of the Blue. Moiraine was definitely goal-oriented; she did, after all, guide the Dragon Reborn. Lelaine was goal-oriented in that she is always in competition with Romanda--working toward her goal of permanantly being a step above Romanda. Suian has a whole gamut of goals she's always worked towards. Egwene was working towards her goal of becoming Aes Sedai in the early books, then later hunting down the Black Ajah (Green in the aspect of fighting them--such as in Tarabon and Tear--Blue in that she was focused on finding them), her focus in learing from the Wise Ones how to be a Dreamwalker and about T' A' R, her focus in learning how to be the Amyrlin, and her goal of uniting the Tower and the Ajahs. That is why I see her as more Blue than Green.

[Maleshub]

It's not about liking any specific man. It's about liking men in general, thinking that they're good for something, viewing them as partners rather than subordinates. That, I'm sorry to say, I'm not sure Egwene has (as opposed to Nynaeve, for example, who makes fun of them just as much, and yet her actions show her true beliefs). That's okay though, a modicum of arrogance can be fetching in a woman

 

You aren't talking about Randland or the Green Ajah. Because reading the books gives you a very matriarchal world where men's status is inferior to women in general. So, your criticism is not of Egwene, but of Randland in general.

[fionwe1987]

Had she let herself lose sight of those things which were most precious? Why did she fight so hard to secure the White Tower? For power? For pride? Or because she felt it really was best for the world?

Was she going to suck herself dry as she fought this battle? She had chosen—or, would have chosen—the Green and not the Blue. The difference wasn't just that she liked the way the Greens stood up and fought; she thought that the Blues were too focused. Life was more complicated than a single cause. Life was about living. About dreaming, laughing and dancing.

Gawyn was in the Aes Sedai camp. She said that she'd chosen the Green for its aggressive determination—it was the Battle Ajah. But a more secret, more honest, part of herself admitted that Gawyn was a motivation for her decision as well. Among the Green Ajah, marrying one's Warder was common. Egwene would have Gawyn for her Warder. And her husband.

She loved him. She would bond him. Those desires of her heart were less important than the fate of the world, true, but they were still important.

Egwene rose from the steps as her dress transformed back into the white and silver gown of the Amyrlin. She took a step forward and let the world shift.

 

This is a very elegant explanation for why Egwene prizes the Green over the Blue. I think she is aware that she would fit well into the Blue. And her two greatest mentors from the WT were Blues, so the influence to join there is clearly present. But for Egwene, focusing on one thing her whole life isn't enough. You can see that in her life. She wanted to be the best Wisdom, the best Aes Sedai, the best Wise One, the best Amyrlin, she wants to know the most, understand the most, do the most... she wants to to live all aspects of life. If anything, her great sucess is because she can divide her focus on so many things and yet do them all well. She's very un-Blue in that.

 

There's also her desire to marry and have a family. She realizes that is a lesser aim of her life by necessity, but she isn't so dedicated to saving the world that she can completely push back her desires to live a family life. And in that, she is more Green than any other Ajah.

 

This neatly ties in to the thematic reason she's Green. In the end, her idea of life is the idea of life Rand had to embrace atop Dragonmount before he became truly ready to face the Dark One. The Green Ajah aims to be the bulwark of the world against the Shadow, and they do so while being the most earthy and connected of the Aes Sedai. They enjoy life, and that is the greatest way to fling defiance in the Dark One's face. Is it then not appropriate that the Amyrlin who will lead the Aes Sedai in defiance against the Dark One is also of the same mind?

 

Thus, it is only when she truly understands her place among the Aes Sedai that Egwene is able to cast off her doubts on what to do with the Tower and is clothed again as Amyrlin (in White and Silver, and hence, in Light). This entire passage is a small parallel to Rand's epiphany, and shows why Egwene is Green, and why that is important.

[SparrowHawk]

Thanks for the quote, I couldn't find it when I posted before, but that's the one I was looking for.

[yoniy0]

You aren't talking about Randland or the Green Ajah. Because reading the books gives you a very matriarchal world where men's status is inferior to women in general. So, your criticism is not of Egwene, but of Randland in general.

No, I am talking of the Green. You are correct that the whole world tends that way, but the Green doesn't. Egwene, well, she aims for that attitude. I'm just not sure she's there, at least not yet (though Gawyn's stopping to be a tool might help her along).

 

This entire passage is a small parallel to Rand's epiphany, and shows why Egwene is Green, and why that is important.

That was very nicely put. I almost agree, I just feel like there's a gap between how Egwene thinks she thinks, and how she really does.

[fionwe1987]

You aren't talking about Randland or the Green Ajah. Because reading the books gives you a very matriarchal world where men's status is inferior to women in general. So, your criticism is not of Egwene, but of Randland in general.

No, I am talking of the Green. You are correct that the whole world tends that way, but the Green doesn't. Egwene, well, she aims for that attitude. I'm just not sure she's there, at least not yet (though Gawyn's stopping to be a tool might help her along).

 

This entire passage is a small parallel to Rand's epiphany, and shows why Egwene is Green, and why that is important.

That was very nicely put. I almost agree, I just feel like there's a gap between how Egwene thinks she thinks, and how she really does.

I don't think so. Do remember that of all the main characters, it was Egwene who first asked if gentling was the only way to deal with male channelers. She was the one who insisted on letting Logain free. And she was the one who accepted that Saidin was cleansed with the greatest equanimity. She was also the only one who felt the Black Tower would be needed for the Last Battle even before saidin was cleansed. When it comes to male female relations, especially among channelers, Egwene is far ahead of the curve. The setup has just been subtle so that when she moves to include male channelers in her grand plan to unite channelers for the LB and against the Seanchan, it doesn't seem obvious. But the setup is very clearly there.

[Maleshub]

You aren't talking about Randland or the Green Ajah. Because reading the books gives you a very matriarchal world where men's status is inferior to women in general. So, your criticism is not of Egwene, but of Randland in general.

No, I am talking of the Green. You are correct that the whole world tends that way, but the Green doesn't. Egwene, well, she aims for that attitude. I'm just not sure she's there, at least not yet (though Gawyn's stopping to be a tool might help her along).

 

Is that how Cadsuane (and Myrelle) act when it comes to men? Cads was so patronizing from the start that her motives confused Verin and Sorilea. It took a direct threat to her life to make her see that patronizing and manipulating Rand will not work. As to Myrelle, she's married to one or more of her warders. For her, that's what they're good for! And that is how she tried to "heal" Lan's wounds!

 

I fail to remember evidence from the books that gives the impression that the Green Ajah views men differently in a major way. As the battle ajah, they need their warders. And as women, they don't deprive themselves the sexual pleasure of men. That is the main difference in a time when Aes Sedai refrained from marriage in general.

 

But to say that the Greens in general viewed men as equal partners is something new to me.

 

Egwene, in ToM, view of Gawyn is this:

 

 

 

Gawyn nodded. No further complaint or argument. It was a wonder how he'd changed. He was as intense as ever, yet less abrasive. Ever since that night with the assassins, he had started doing as she asked. Not as a servant. As a partner dedicated to seeing her will done.

 

You can take it either way. But she views him as a partner working with her to see the will of the Amyrlin done. There is a clear line on who is in charge; but it is not servitude; but a sense of partnership. I guess that's what a warder is about.

[EmperorMayhem]

Anyone know if she's taken the Oaths yet? I remember her trip through the testing Ter'angreal in book 3 foreshadowed her becoming Amyrlin and also the Great Purge... but it also said she'd never taken the Oaths. I wonder if this will end up happening at all? I remember her telling the other girls that they needed the Oaths, and intended on taking them but did she end up doing it yet?