True Masters of the Blade

[Elan Tedronai]

It doesnt matter what sanderson says. He's here to complete jordan's story. gawyn is better than his brother. That happened in book 6 when he was downing man and aiel alike and leading the younglings. He is superior. Never lost once. Even 3 bloodknives could not down him in an enclosed space without losing their lives.

 

Jordan gave his true answer on who is better in book 4

 

When leane shuddered when she heard gawyn killed hammar and coulin. That's jordan hint on gawyn being superior

[Suttree]

It doesnt matter what sanderson says. He's here to complete jordan's story. gawyn is better than his brother. That happened in book 6 when he was downing man and aiel alike and leading the younglings. He is superior. Never lost once. Even 3 bloodknives could not down him in an enclosed space without losing their lives.

 

Jordan gave his true answer on who is better in book 4

 

When leane shuddered when she heard gawyn killed hammar and coulin. That's jordan hint on gawyn being superior

 

Elan please stop insisting the opinion of one of the authors doesn't matter. He has access to the notes. Not to mention RJ gave his ranking after book 4 when Leane made that comment. It's word of God and nothing you can say changes that. So RJ says he's better, BS says he's better, hell even Gawyn(along with numerous other characters) says he's better.

 

“Besides, he has the best hand with a sword I’ve ever seen. The Warders only need show him something once, and he’s learned it. They sweat me nearly to death to learn half what Galad does without trying.”

[thisguy]

There's also this, if you watch enough sports fighting (boxing, ufc, whatever), quite often there's some guy who seems unbeatable but gets his butt kicked eventually by another dude who isn't anything special. He might even lose to that guy more than once. Some people just have your number. So, just because fighter B can beat fighter A doesn't mean fighter B can beat fighter C, even if fighter A can be fighter C.

 

that's convoluted but true. :D

[Vardar]

There's also this, if you watch enough sports fighting (boxing, ufc, whatever), quite often there's some guy who seems unbeatable but gets his butt kicked eventually by another dude who isn't anything special. He might even lose to that guy more than once. Some people just have your number. So, just because fighter B can beat fighter A doesn't mean fighter B can beat fighter C, even if fighter A can be fighter C.

 

that's convoluted but true. :D

 

Basically "any given Sunday."

[thisguy]

There's also this, if you watch enough sports fighting (boxing, ufc, whatever), quite often there's some guy who seems unbeatable but gets his butt kicked eventually by another dude who isn't anything special. He might even lose to that guy more than once. Some people just have your number. So, just because fighter B can beat fighter A doesn't mean fighter B can beat fighter C, even if fighter A can be fighter C.

 

that's convoluted but true. :D

 

Basically "any given Sunday."

exactly. ;)

[TommyRocker]

Even 3 bloodknives could not down him in an enclosed space without losing their lives.

 

We have nothing to say that Bloodknives are any more deadly than, say, Aiel or Warders or Myrddraal (which is still quite deadly) except for Seanchan legendary status. The same people who believe that women who can channel are animals. The same people who believe their empress is divine. The SEANCHAN believe Bloodknives to be unbeatable, but they also believe their own army unbeatable. You know, the same army that was beaten a couple times by Rand..?

[Vardar]

Even 3 bloodknives could not down him in an enclosed space without losing their lives.

 

We have nothing to say that Bloodknives are any more deadly than, say, Aiel or Warders or Myrddraal (which is still quite deadly) except for Seanchan legendary status. The same people who believe that women who can channel are animals. The same people who believe their empress is divine. The SEANCHAN believe Bloodknives to be unbeatable, but they also believe their own army unbeatable. You know, the same army that was beaten a couple times by Rand..?

 

OoOo good point!

 

But it's said they never fail. Also, he Seanchan was never defeated, until they met up with Rand. So those were apt descriptions and shouldn't be used to cast asperations upon the skill or lack thereof of the Bloodknives.

[Suttree]

please delete

[Suttree]

But it's said they never fail. Also, he Seanchan was never defeated, until they met up with Rand. So those were apt descriptions and shouldn't be used to cast asperations upon the skill or lack thereof of the Bloodknives.

 

We don't know if that is true or just a part of the overall propaganda used within the Seanchan system...

 

For instance they also claim the Empire is stable and secure and the common folk are conent and happy. We know this not to be th case from Karede mentioning putting down "numerous" rebellions in his time with the DW guards and the Seeker talking about their being "insurrection" in certain districts.

[Vardar]

But it's said they never fail. Also, he Seanchan was never defeated, until they met up with Rand. So those were apt descriptions and shouldn't be used to cast asperations upon the skill or lack thereof of the Bloodknives.

 

We don't know if that is true or just a part of the overall propaganda used within the Seanchan system...

 

For instance they also claim the Empire is stable and secure and the common folk are conent and happy. We know this not to be th case from Karede mentioning putting down "numerous" rebellions in his time with the DW guards and the Seeker talking about their being "insurrection" in certain districts.

 

Hmm. Insightful. I'd argue that rebellions don't mean an empire isn't stable, as long as they have the might to put them down. I do now recall Karede saying and one of those rebelions wasn't small.

 

As to the common folk are content and happy, HA! Every contry claims that, when is it ever true?

That being said, I love how you call it propaganda. I'm going to use that from hence forth.

[TommyRocker]

Even 3 bloodknives could not down him in an enclosed space without losing their lives.

 

We have nothing to say that Bloodknives are any more deadly than, say, Aiel or Warders or Myrddraal (which is still quite deadly) except for Seanchan legendary status. The same people who believe that women who can channel are animals. The same people who believe their empress is divine. The SEANCHAN believe Bloodknives to be unbeatable, but they also believe their own army unbeatable. You know, the same army that was beaten a couple times by Rand..?

 

OoOo good point!

 

But it's said they never fail. Also, he Seanchan was never defeated, until they met up with Rand. So those were apt descriptions and shouldn't be used to cast asperations upon the skill or lack thereof of the Bloodknives.

 

I wasn't using it to cast anything on the Bloodknives, I was using it to indicate that:

 

A) something stated as fact within the WOT Universe is subject to the characters misguided beliefs and may NOT be fact in truth

B) The Seanchan are EXTREMELY prone to believing propaganda and may state "facts" that are simply not aligned with reality.

[Maleshub]

But what makes Galad that badass? And how can Gawyn be that lucky? I mean, if Galad was better in book 2 because he won 3/5 vs 2/5 against Hammar and Co. and Gawyn soon kills those people, obviously Gawyn is improving, and we can assume Galad is too, off screen. But how far was the skill gap between them beforehand? Was Galad only taking 3/5 because he felt like being nice to Hammar and Co? Because that's what I would assume (wasn't it like 3-4 months between dueling and Gawyn killing them?)

 

What has Galad been doing? Gawyn has been fighting Aiel right? Galad has been... On tour with Whitecloaks. They're not at war with anyone right now right, so at best we'd have him doing what he was doing when he defended Ny and Elayne, killing non-skilled opponents. Practicing with fellow soldiers of course, but what else? What makes him that good? I mean Gawyn is still in a position to practice with Warders, Galad isn't. Warders, due to their gifts, are generally accounted some of the best. Yes there are exceptions but if practice is everything (What Galad would have had in terms of actual challenges unless there are random blademasters wandering the world in small villages, well besides Tam), then Gawyn would have had the best practice opportunities as well as the best combat challenges ( Aiel and such).

 

So, if Galad is just that good, then we have to suspend disbelief and accept that fact that nothing Gawyn can ever do will put him on Galad's level. Apparently he was just born that way.

 

(And 2 handed Rand too, apparently he got that good that fast because it was a birthright)

 

Gawyn was more into "running away from Aiel" than "fighting Aiel." One of the most outrageous plot gimmicks designed to keep Gawyn alive is for 500 cavalry to survive an attack by 15000 enemy troops(Aiel)! One volley of arrows at 200 paces from the Shaido should have transformed the Younglings into the Porcupines.

 

And the second underlined statement is nice. Gawyn is resigned to playing second fiddle to Galad in swordplay.

[Durinax]

I want to know how good rand is at one handed sword play, he referenced relearning the sword with one hand, I want to know if he actually did

[Kamin_Majere]

He'll never be as good as even Gawyn with one hand... probably would not even be able to claim to be a Blade Master at this point. He's simply at to large a disadvantage with only a single hand.

 

Though on the up side he can always make a sword out of pure fire and win anyways, but in actual sword fighting anyone even approaching Blade Master level would beat him pretty badly

[thisguy]

Different styles. Portuguese and spanish swordsman were able to beat japanese swordsman, and I believe the euros were using mostly one handed techniques by then.

[XoMeltdownoX]

Different blade types to coincide with the different styles.

[thisguy]

Exactamundo.

[Durinax]

I suddenly recall a quote of someone (one of the forsaken) mentioning that he and LTT took the tame sport of fencing (or swords or something) and turned it into actual fighting. Fencing is one handed and LTT was considered a blademaster, so he could still be

[XoMeltdownoX]

I suddenly recall a quote of someone (one of the forsaken) mentioning that he and LTT took the tame sport of fencing (or swords or something) and turned it into actual fighting. Fencing is one handed and LTT was considered a blademaster, so he could still be

Do not think he said fencing. I think it was the tame sport called swords. And it was Be'lal the Short Lived.

[Durinax]

I suddenly recall a quote of someone (one of the forsaken) mentioning that he and LTT took the tame sport of fencing (or swords or something) and turned it into actual fighting. Fencing is one handed and LTT was considered a blademaster, so he could still be

Do not think he said fencing. I think it was the tame sport called swords. And it was Be'lal the Short Lived.

ok, seems you have a better memory than me, but I just equated it to fencing when I first read it

[nolirion]

Seanchan army is not unbeatable , simply put, they are very adaptable , sometimes the lost a battle but never the war because they learn from it , war is intellect .

 

 

Different styles. Portuguese and spanish swordsman were able to beat japanese swordsman, and I believe the euros were using mostly one handed techniques by then.

I am sorry but have you ever hear of any actual fighting between a Kendo master and European swordsman ?

I have questioned on an other site this kind of question , arguing that as those different fighter never actually fight , japan been for a very long time secluded ,we would never really know .

At the end I got an explanation about how the only fight that would be "fair" would be between a Rapier sword master and a Kendo master , the fact is that the Rapier is Incredibly fast but the sheer hacking power of the katana is devastating .

Both the Rapier and the Katana been the pinnacle of sword fight in either culture .

Onto Gawyn , I am half convince his fight where staged so it would not seem unbelievable for him to beat the 3 assassins ; I am fairly certain Lan would beat the living crap out of him .

[Maleshub]

I am fairly certain Lan would beat the living crap out of him.

 

True! And I am glad no one is trying to argue that Gawyn can beat Lan. Daishan killed Toram Raitin without breaking a sweat (or so it seemed) in Far Madding. And the loser was a blademaster.

[TristanWebb]

Well to be fair, Toram was completely insane by that point, and Fain probably hadn't been feeding him so he was hardly the same man Rand sparred with.

[XoMeltdownoX]

I suddenly recall a quote of someone (one of the forsaken) mentioning that he and LTT took the tame sport of fencing (or swords or something) and turned it into actual fighting. Fencing is one handed and LTT was considered a blademaster, so he could still be

Do not think he said fencing. I think it was the tame sport called swords. And it was Be'lal the Short Lived.

ok, seems you have a better memory than me, but I just equated it to fencing when I first read it

That's cool. In my mind, I equated to kendo, due to the design of the blades we see, both now and then (Be'lal had a black sword of Fire). I think it is open for interpretation.

[Vardar]

But what makes Galad that badass? And how can Gawyn be that lucky? I mean, if Galad was better in book 2 because he won 3/5 vs 2/5 against Hammar and Co. and Gawyn soon kills those people, obviously Gawyn is improving, and we can assume Galad is too, off screen. But how far was the skill gap between them beforehand? Was Galad only taking 3/5 because he felt like being nice to Hammar and Co? Because that's what I would assume (wasn't it like 3-4 months between dueling and Gawyn killing them?)

 

What has Galad been doing? Gawyn has been fighting Aiel right? Galad has been... On tour with Whitecloaks. They're not at war with anyone right now right, so at best we'd have him doing what he was doing when he defended Ny and Elayne, killing non-skilled opponents. Practicing with fellow soldiers of course, but what else? What makes him that good? I mean Gawyn is still in a position to practice with Warders, Galad isn't. Warders, due to their gifts, are generally accounted some of the best. Yes there are exceptions but if practice is everything (What Galad would have had in terms of actual challenges unless there are random blademasters wandering the world in small villages, well besides Tam), then Gawyn would have had the best practice opportunities as well as the best combat challenges ( Aiel and such).

 

So, if Galad is just that good, then we have to suspend disbelief and accept that fact that nothing Gawyn can ever do will put him on Galad's level. Apparently he was just born that way.

 

(And 2 handed Rand too, apparently he got that good that fast because it was a birthright)

 

Gawyn was more into "running away from Aiel" than "fighting Aiel." One of the most outrageous plot gimmicks designed to keep Gawyn alive is for 500 cavalry to survive an attack by 15000 enemy troops(Aiel)! One volley of arrows at 200 paces from the Shaido should have transformed the Younglings into the Porcupines.

 

And the second underlined statement is nice. Gawyn is resigned to playing second fiddle to Galad in swordplay.

 

Didn't Gawyn make a statement about adjusting to Aiel tactics since skirmishing with them?