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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

True Masters of the Blade


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1- A Lieutenant has under officers (on the level of sergeants); whereas a General's under officers are usually Colonels, Lt. Colonels, and Majors; the lowest of which is not the direct commander of a Lieutenant. So, comparing Gawyn's leadership experience with Galad remains a far-fetched comparison. If what you say is true then there is no difference between a Lieutenant and a General. Are you implying that?

 

But in the end, Gawyn abandoned leadership and responsibility, including his oaths to Elayne that he swore to uphold from childhood, and chose the path of bodyguard/warder to Egwene.

 

2- The Bloodknives probably planned to kill Egwene and a few dozen AS to go out "in style." They knew that their time is about to expire; and were under extreme pressure to fulfill their task.

 

3- In a real battle, a fighter doesn't complain and sometimes doesn't choose the terrain. Gawyn fought the battle in the place it was to be fought; and the result was closer to a draw than to a victory. And blaming Egwene for that is out of context. She was the prize the Seanchan wanted to snare; and thus the battle was in her chambers. But even so, fighting at close quarters is to Gawyn's advantage since the lack of space hinders the assassins more than it hinders Gawyn.

 

1) It really depends more on which Lieutenant than just saying there is no difference. Some Lieutenant have direct commands, other's don't. This would be more a Captain vs General thing, and even then it's sketchy. All in all, yes I personally would imply that their leadership experience is similiar. Especially considerng Galad has been leading a squad for the majority of the time, while Gawyn had his 500 for a lot longer. How long has Galad had the full Children? Not very long at all.

 

1)a) Umm. I suppose you can say that.

 

2) That's a far jump. But it may be true.

 

3) I'm not blaming her, I'm just tossing more fire on the skill market. He was at a severe disadvantage and still managed to win. Call it a draw, he lived, they all died. Or even better, if he would have died, he still stopped them, which I'd still call a win.

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Ok so this will seem like I'm sitting on the fence so I'll say first off that the Authors say Galad is better so he's better.

 

Now it gets a bit greyer... I think BS should just have answered with a RAFO, as what is said in the text and what is shown do contradict each other.

 

At the time of Mat thumping them, they had only been in the Tower a few months so had only really begun their training. It is natural for one to pick up the skills faster than the other, and for the other to struggle to keep up, especially with someone who he thinks can do no wrong. Gawyn is correct about Galad's natural skill, and at that early stage it was obvious for all to see.

 

Then Elayne and Egwene disappear from the Tower for about 4 months, leaving both boys stressed, heartsick and worried (except for Nynaeve). They deal with it in different ways. Gawyn seems to have thrown himself into training and greatly caught up to Galad in physical strength and technical skill. Galad gets mopey and eventually loses his focus after Rand declares himself the Dragon and Min arrives at the Tower, and ends up drinking in taverns with the Whitecloaks.

 

Now correct me if I am wrong because I haven't checked the timeline but Min was in the Tower for at least a couple of months before Elaida's coup (enough time for her hair to grow and to have numerous dresses made), which is a fair amount of time for Galad to lose his form no matter his natural talent, if he's drinking and not training it's going to affect his fitness at the very least, and for Gawyn to close the skills gap.

 

No-one seems to have mentioned that Galad wasn't a part of the fighting in the Tower, I don't even think he was there at the time, or that he returned before joining the Whitecloaks. Which also means that Gawyn slew Hammar and Coulin, both blademasters, a long time before Galad even got a sniff at Valda. I think that is pretty telling to say the least.

 

We all know Gawyn is a very emotional young lad, with numerous complexes about his own abilities compared to his brother and his right to love Egwene when Galad has indicated feelings for her. Galad (after joining the Whitecloaks), somehow got his mojo back and is able to distance himself from emotion and obtain the ko'di. This is what gives him the edge over Gawyn, even though Gawyn has more combat experience by the time Galad kills Valda and is ambushed by Trollocs and rescued by Perrin. And by the way, the Whitecloaks were absolutely shocked at that ambush, they didn't fight bravely or professionally at all, they were falling apart and being swarmed under.

 

My point is, Galad is better, but only by a hairsbreadth. I think it will be interesting to see him have to defend Berelain, and see if a bit of emotion is a help or a hindrance to him. It seemed to benefit Gawyn with the Bloodknives, and now that he has accepted what it means to be a Warder, his mental stability is tenfold better and I expect to see more improvement from him in the next book. Add to that his new Warder abilities and he may just surpass Galad in AMoL.

 

So at this point of the Wheel's turning, Galad is still better, but whether or not the rankings stay as they are remains to be seen. RAFO :wink:

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Then Elayne and Egwene disappear from the Tower for about 4 months, leaving both boys stressed, heartsick and worried (except for Nynaeve). They deal with it in different ways. Gawyn seems to have thrown himself into training and greatly caught up to Galad in physical strength and technical skill. Galad gets mopey and eventually loses his focus after Rand declares himself the Dragon and Min arrives at the Tower, and ends up drinking in taverns with the Whitecloaks.

 

I agree with most of your assessment but need to correct you here. Far from wasting away in tavern losing his skill at the time of the girls disappearance Galad was consistently beating warders 3/5 while Gawyn was happy to get 2/5 despite training less. Now it is true Galad cut back on training but his natural skill and the quickness with wich he picks things up make up for it. In addition Galad leaves to be part of a military organization. Training would be part of an everyday routine and his showing against the mob and fight with Valda show he has continued to progress. I do feel Gawyn made up ground during this time and your post overall is a good take on the situation.

 

Edit: another point is we have no idea how Gawyn slew Hammar and Coulain. Were they already engaged? Given the chaos and group fighting dynamic of the coup it is highly unlikely it was a 1 on 1 scenario like Galad and Valda.

Edited by Suttree
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I think the problem is that Galad vs Valda was much more evenly matched than Rand vs Torak (I think that was it? The Seanchan blademaster). Once Rand assumed the void, he won easily. It makes Galad seem much weaker that he won by trickery (though a fight to the death, you do what the rules allow) when Rand was berely trained and owned a blademaster hard.

 

Though Valda did have the reputation of being the best blademaster in the world (probably because Lan was hiding with Moiraine) if I remember rightly.

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I think the problem is that Galad vs Valda was much more evenly matched than Rand vs Torak (I think that was it? The Seanchan blademaster). Once Rand assumed the void, he won easily. It makes Galad seem much weaker that he won by trickery (though a fight to the death, you do what the rules allow) when Rand was berely trained and owned a blademaster hard.

 

Though Valda did have the reputation of being the best blademaster in the world (probably because Lan was hiding with Moiraine) if I remember rightly.

 

Keep in mind also that most people have put forth there is a talent gap with Seanchan blade masters. They are not thought to be as skilled as those on this side of the Aryth.

Edited by Suttree
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Yeah, I get that. But those are the only two blade master vs blade master fights we have to go by, one where the guy gets owned when Rand puts his mind to it, and one where Galad has to fake his way to a win. It makes it seem like Galad sucks.

 

I had a hard time wrapping my head around Galad being described as the best with a sword anyone has ever seen in the PoVs we get with him in it, which are usually from women who don't know much about swordplay at all, to him just berely scraping a win and thinking he was outmatched the entire time.

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Then Elayne and Egwene disappear from the Tower for about 4 months, leaving both boys stressed, heartsick and worried (except for Nynaeve). They deal with it in different ways. Gawyn seems to have thrown himself into training and greatly caught up to Galad in physical strength and technical skill. Galad gets mopey and eventually loses his focus after Rand declares himself the Dragon and Min arrives at the Tower, and ends up drinking in taverns with the Whitecloaks.

 

I agree with most of your assessment but need to correct you here. Far from wasting away in tavern losing his skill at the time of the girls disappearance Galad was consistently beating warders 3/5 while Gawyn was happy to get 2/5 despite training less. Now it is true Galad cut back on training but his natural skill and the quickness with wich he picks things up make up for it. In addition Galad leaves to be part of a military organization. Training would be part of an everyday routine and his showing against the mob and fight with Valda show he has continued to progress. I do feel Gawyn made up ground during this time and your post overall is a good take on the situation.

 

Edit: another point is we have no idea how Gawyn slew Hammar and Coulain. Were they already engaged? Given the chaos and group fighting dynamic of the coup it is highly unlikely it was a 1 on 1 scenario like Galad and Valda.

 

Gawyn told Min that Galad was drinking with Whitecloaks in taverns and reading Mantelar's book (quote has been posted by someone else earlier). He hardly ever bothered to go to training. If he was training regularly and putting in half the effort Gawyn does, I suspect he would beat Hammar 4/5 or even 5/5. It does not say in the text he was training with the Whitecloaks, he was carefully considering his options for the future and deciding if the Whitecloaks mantra was "right" or not. At the very least he would have lost momentum if not form, but yes, he did reclaim it after leaving the Tower. It was a long time before we saw him at Samara again, ample time to get back on track and hold his ranking. Also, Gawyn told Sleete that it was an honourable fight, not even realising that he was a Blademaster until Sleete pointed it out.

 

Totally unrelated but it makes me think of those swaying balance scales. :rolleyes:

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Reading the textual evidence, it seems clear that Lan is the most highly skilled and regarded swordsman of all the characters.

 

However, reaching the level of a blademaster seems to be the highest possible skill level. Like other professionals who hone their craft to artistry, their skills may be so evenly matched that it all depends on supporting circumstances that determine the outcome of a particular fight, e.g. Lan fighting for Nynaeve, Gawyn for Egwene, etc.

 

Yet... whoever you think is the best, I'd say Mat has a good chance at besting him :happy:

Edited by Jonas
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well everyone knows that I love Gawyn and would gladly slit his throat only a hair breath after I do the courtesy for Eggy, but give the devil his due. I do not think that Galad or any other blade master would have lasted as long as Gawyn did and somebody called it a tie! I mean seriously! There were three assassins with enhanced senses, extra agility and speed. He not just stands them down alone, but he kills all three of them. Oh and as an aside he protects the prized target that they were after. She does not even gets a scratch and you call it a draw!!!!!!!!!!!! I am truly astounded. Did somebody changed the meaning of tie in the dictionary when I was not looking?

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Then Elayne and Egwene disappear from the Tower for about 4 months, leaving both boys stressed, heartsick and worried (except for Nynaeve). They deal with it in different ways. Gawyn seems to have thrown himself into training and greatly caught up to Galad in physical strength and technical skill. Galad gets mopey and eventually loses his focus after Rand declares himself the Dragon and Min arrives at the Tower, and ends up drinking in taverns with the Whitecloaks.

 

I agree with most of your assessment but need to correct you here. Far from wasting away in tavern losing his skill at the time of the girls disappearance Galad was consistently beating warders 3/5 while Gawyn was happy to get 2/5 despite training less. Now it is true Galad cut back on training but his natural skill and the quickness with wich he picks things up make up for it. In addition Galad leaves to be part of a military organization. Training would be part of an everyday routine and his showing against the mob and fight with Valda show he has continued to progress. I do feel Gawyn made up ground during this time and your post overall is a good take on the situation.

 

Edit: another point is we have no idea how Gawyn slew Hammar and Coulain. Were they already engaged? Given the chaos and group fighting dynamic of the coup it is highly unlikely it was a 1 on 1 scenario like Galad and Valda.

 

He said he faced them with honor because it needed doing and they deserved that much didn't he. (Did I forget to post this last time you said that, or am I going crazy). That implies he faced them in single combat tome, although I admit I may be wrong. Umm, I wish I could remember which Gaywn POV it was. I want to say it was when he let Min and them escape, but for some reason I think it was later than that. Like right before he switched sides.

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If he mentions it, I couldn't find it. He certainly doesn't say it when he lets the girls go.

 

 

Gawyn spun to face the three women, his eyes like blue fire. "Yes," he grated. "They were my friends, and I respected them, but they sided with . . . with Siuan Sanche, and I had to-" Abruptly he shoved the paper he had sealed into Min's hand. "Go! Go, before I change my mind!"

 

Certainly can't see him stabbing them in the back given what he says there, but it's by no means proof that he fought them 1 on 1. Is that something that might be in the notes that Brandon would answer?

 

I still like this line:

 

 

Leane said.' 'I always thought Galad was the more dangerous of those two, but I am no longer sure. Hammar, and Coulin. ..."

 

Note she does say dangerous, not "skilled" there's probably a big difference.

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If he mentions it, I couldn't find it. He certainly doesn't say it when he lets the girls go.

 

 

Gawyn spun to face the three women, his eyes like blue fire. "Yes," he grated. "They were my friends, and I respected them, but they sided with . . . with Siuan Sanche, and I had to-" Abruptly he shoved the paper he had sealed into Min's hand. "Go! Go, before I change my mind!"

 

Certainly can't see him stabbing them in the back given what he says there, but it's by no means proof that he fought them 1 on 1. Is that something that might be in the notes that Brandon would answer?

 

I still like this line:

 

 

Leane said.' 'I always thought Galad was the more dangerous of those two, but I am no longer sure. Hammar, and Coulin. ..."

 

Note she does say dangerous, not "skilled" there's probably a big difference.

 

Youmaycallme provided the quote.

 

He said it to sleete.

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well everyone knows that I love Gawyn and would gladly slit his throat only a hair breath after I do the courtesy for Eggy, but give the devil his due. I do not think that Galad or any other blade master would have lasted as long as Gawyn did and somebody called it a tie! I mean seriously! There were three assassins with enhanced senses, extra agility and speed. He not just stands them down alone, but he kills all three of them. Oh and as an aside he protects the prized target that they were after. She does not even gets a scratch and you call it a draw!!!!!!!!!!!! I am truly astounded. Did somebody changed the meaning of tie in the dictionary when I was not looking?

 

I said it was closer to a tie than an outright victory. By victory I cite Lan vs. 6 killers in New Spring. "Closer to a tie" means the three assassins were killed and Gawyn suffered a mortal wound (would have died too) but was saved by Egwene's timely waking and the healing of Aes Sedai.

 

And it should be noted that this is Gawyn's redemption scene. He fulfills a duty and acts heroically. Nothing detracting from that.

 

But the details should be examined. The Bloodknives were trying to fulfill their last mission, the penultimate, where they kill the Amyrlin and dozens of Aes Sedai. Their time was up and they were about to die. Does that mean that their senses were enhanced to a lesser degree? No direct evidence .... But .... if we take Gareth Bryne's incident with the first Bloodknife killed, he admitted that without his newly enhanced warder senses and long training, he would never have seen/reacted to the assassin. Gawyn did not have warder enhanced senses, yet still managed to see enough to react to their sword forms.

 

Also, the Bloodknives, knowing that this is probably their last mission, were under pressure to fulfill their duty. This pressure was clear in how they conducted themselves in the fight against Gawyn. All three concentrated on him, when it should have taken only two to distract him long enough for the third to (at least) kill Egwene in her sleep (like he killed the former Youngling Gawyn sent for help). They failed in their mission. Gawyn thwarted them single-handedly; but it wasn't just his actions. The Bloodknives themselves were not at their best.

Edited by Theodril
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I think that Bloodknives' lives end similarly to Aes Sedai and Warders, both being related to the Power, They are perfectly fit and healthy and then suddenly kick the bucket. I don't think the Bloodknives' strength ebbs when they are nearing their expiry date, they just drop dead - hopefully having achieved their purpose,

 

Also they ganged up on Gawyn the way they did because they knew he was onto them, they had no other choice. If he was still blind to them, they would have just hidden or snuck past him.

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If he mentions it, I couldn't find it. He certainly doesn't say it when he lets the girls go.

 

 

Gawyn spun to face the three women, his eyes like blue fire. "Yes," he grated. "They were my friends, and I respected them, but they sided with . . . with Siuan Sanche, and I had to-" Abruptly he shoved the paper he had sealed into Min's hand. "Go! Go, before I change my mind!"

 

Certainly can't see him stabbing them in the back given what he says there, but it's by no means proof that he fought them 1 on 1. Is that something that might be in the notes that Brandon would answer?

 

I still like this line:

 

 

Leane said.' 'I always thought Galad was the more dangerous of those two, but I am no longer sure. Hammar, and Coulin. ..."

 

Note she does say dangerous, not "skilled" there's probably a big difference.

 

Youmaycallme provided the quote.

 

He said it to sleete.

 

Actually no quote was provided. I have been through TGS and nowhere that I can find does Gawyn say anything about "honor" in relation to the killings. Here is what he says to Sleete.

 

TGS

"You killed Hammar, didn't you?" Marlesh asked.

 

Gawyn hesitated. The simplicity he'd felt before, while fighting, was already crumbling. "Yes."

 

"Well, then you're a blademaster," Marlesh said. "Should have taken his sword when he fell."

 

"It wasn't respectful," Gawyn said. "Besides, I didn't have time to claim prizes."

 

Still not sure how people seem to think in the middle of a pitched battle with mass warder on warder fighting there would be time for a 1 on 1 duel.

Edited by Suttree
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If he mentions it, I couldn't find it. He certainly doesn't say it when he lets the girls go.

 

 

Gawyn spun to face the three women, his eyes like blue fire. "Yes," he grated. "They were my friends, and I respected them, but they sided with . . . with Siuan Sanche, and I had to-" Abruptly he shoved the paper he had sealed into Min's hand. "Go! Go, before I change my mind!"

 

Certainly can't see him stabbing them in the back given what he says there, but it's by no means proof that he fought them 1 on 1. Is that something that might be in the notes that Brandon would answer?

 

I still like this line:

 

 

Leane said.' 'I always thought Galad was the more dangerous of those two, but I am no longer sure. Hammar, and Coulin. ..."

 

Note she does say dangerous, not "skilled" there's probably a big difference.

 

Youmaycallme provided the quote.

 

He said it to sleete.

 

Actually no quote was provided. I have been through TGS and nowhere that I can find does Gawyn say anything about "honor" in relation to the killings. Here is what he says to Sleete.

 

TGS

"You killed Hammar, didn't you?" Marlesh asked.

 

Gawyn hesitated. The simplicity he'd felt before, while fighting, was already crumbling. "Yes."

 

"Well, then you're a blademaster," Marlesh said. "Should have taken his sword when he fell."

 

"It wasn't respectful," Gawyn said. "Besides, I didn't have time to claim prizes."

 

Still not sure how people seem to think in the middle of a pitched battle with mass warder on warder fighting there would be time for a 1 on 1 duel.

 

The Shadow Rising:

 

"The grizzled man shifted uneasly, and one of the others muttered, "He's the one they say killed Hammas and Coulin." After a moment, the officer jerked his head toward the guardhouse, and one of the guardsmen ran inside, returning with a lapdesk, a small red stick of sealing was burning in a brass holder at one corner. Gawyn let the man hold the desk while he scribbled furiously.

"This will let you past the bridge guards," he said, letting a pool of red wax drif beneath his signature. He pressed his signet ring into it firmly.

"You killed Coulin?" Suian said in a cold tone fittingher former office. "and Hammar?"

Min's heart sank. Be quiet, Siuan! Remember who you are now, and be quiet!

Gawyn spun to face the three women, his eyes like blue fire. "Yes," he grated. "They were my friends, and I respected them, but they sided with... with Siuan Sanche, and I had to-" Abruptly he shoved th epaper he had sealed into Min's hand. "Go! ...

 

 

Still not direct confirmation, but he had the chance to say we killed him, or my younglings nad I did, no he was asked if He killed Hammar and Coulin, and he said yes I did. I think he'd correct something like that. I don't have the last few books on me, I'll reread your quote when I get home.

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When galad tells morgase that he killed Valda, her thoughts are not simply that he defeated a simple blademaster but that he defeated one of the best swordsmen in the world

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I agree with Vardarmus and Suttree both.

 

a) Gawyn would be more humble about accepting all the fame he's gathering for those two kills if it was notably unfair, that's just the type of guy he is.

but

b) There's not much of a chance of 1 on 1 fights in the middle of a pitched battle

 

So a+b gives me: Gawyn was running through the place alone and came upon Hammar and Coulin together and triumphed 1 v 2!

 

How's that for a compromise? =)

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It makes Galad seem much weaker that he won by trickery (though a fight to the death, you do what the rules allow) when Rand was berely trained and owned a blademaster hard.

 

Forgot to ask this the other day. Why would you call attaining the void trickery? It is a concentration technique used by all the best swordsmen.

 

On the topic of Hammar and Coulain I would have loved if we had gotten some of the WT fight, younglings v. warders live.

Edited by Suttree
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It makes Galad seem much weaker that he won by trickery (though a fight to the death, you do what the rules allow) when Rand was berely trained and owned a blademaster hard.

 

Forgot to ask this the other day. Why would you call attaining the void trickery? It is a concentration technique used by all the best swordsmen.

 

Maybe he was referring to Galad feigning fatigue before surprising Valda with the killing blow.

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It makes Galad seem much weaker that he won by trickery (though a fight to the death, you do what the rules allow) when Rand was berely trained and owned a blademaster hard.

 

Forgot to ask this the other day. Why would you call attaining the void trickery? It is a concentration technique used by all the best swordsmen.

 

Maybe he was referring to Galad feigning fatigue before surprising Valda with the killing blow.

 

Ahh my bad, thanks Theodril.

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It makes Galad seem much weaker that he won by trickery (though a fight to the death, you do what the rules allow) when Rand was berely trained and owned a blademaster hard.

 

Forgot to ask this the other day. Why would you call attaining the void trickery? It is a concentration technique used by all the best swordsmen.

 

Maybe he was referring to Galad feigning fatigue before surprising Valda with the killing blow.

 

Ahh my bad, thanks Theodril.

That is what I meant. I could have been clearer, sorry.

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i think that is why somebody said earlier that you cannot judge a swordsman in combat situation. I partially agree with it, but from the on screen sword fights I have to concede that Gawyn vs blood knives has to be right up there and On that evidence I have to give that Gawyn is the best

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My original stance I'm still standing by but I found this interesting and it might even sway you a bit Sutts...

 

From the practice bouts with Sleete and Marlesh in TGS Ch13 (thanks again for those resources Sutts btw, so much easier):

 

Sleete was advancing again. Gawyn brought his sword back in to guard as the Warders approached in tandem. Gawyn immediately moved into Apple Blossoms in the Wind. His blade flashed three times, pushing a wide-eyed Marlesh back. Marlesh cursed, throwing himself forward, but Gawyn brought his sword up from the previous form and moved fluidly into Shake Dew from the Branch. He stepped forward into a series of six sharp blows, three at each opponent, knocking Marlesh back and to the ground—the man had stepped back into the fight too quickly—and forcing Sleete's blade aside twice, then ending with his blade against the man's neck.

 

The two Warders looked at Gawyn, shocked. They had borne similar expressions the last time Gawyn had defeated them, and the time before that. Sleete carried a heron-mark blade and was near-legendary in the White Tower for his prowess. He was said to have bested even Lan Mandragoran twice out of seven bouts, back when Mandragoran had been known to spar with other Warders. Marlesh wasn't as renowned as his companion, but he was still a fully capable and trained Warder, no easy foe.

 

But Gawyn had won. Again. Things seemed so simple when he was sparring. The world contracted down—compressed like berries squeezed for their juice—into something smaller and easier to see from up close. All Gawyn had ever wanted was to protect Elayne. He wanted to defend Andor. Maybe learn to be a little more like Galad.

 

Why couldn't life be as simple as a sword match? Opponents clear and arranged before you. The prize obvious: survival. When men fought, they connected. You became brothers as you traded blows. Gawyn removed his blade and stepped away, sheathing it. He offered a hand to Marlesh, who took it, shaking his head as he stood. "You are remarkable, Gawyn Trakand. Like a creature of light, color and shadow when you move. I feel like a babe holding a stick when I face you."

 

Sleete said nothing as he sheathed his own sword, but he did nod his head to Gawyn in respect—just as he had the last two times they'd fought. He was a man of few words. Gawyn appreciated that.

 

In the corner of the barn there was a half-barrel filled with water, and the men walked to it. Corbet, one of the Younglings, hurriedly dipped a ladleful and handed it to Gawyn. Gawyn gave it to Sleete. The older man nodded again and took a drink while Marlesh took a cup off the dusty windowsill and got himself a drink. "I'm saying, Trakand," the short man continued, "we'll need to find you a blade with some herons on it. No one should have to face you without knowing what they're getting into!"

 

"I'm not a blademaster," Gawyn said quietly, taking the ladle back from crook-nosed Sleete and having a drink. It was warm, which felt good. Less of a shock, more natural.

 

"You killed Hammar, didn't you?" Marlesh asked.

 

Gawyn hesitated. The simplicity he'd felt before, while fighting, was already crumbling. "Yes."

 

"Well, then you're a blademaster," Marlesh said. "Should have taken his sword when he fell."

 

"It wasn't respectful," Gawyn said. "Besides, I didn't have time to claim prizes."

 

Marlesh laughed, as if at a joke, though Gawyn hadn't intended one. He glanced over at Sleete, who was watching him with curious eyes.

 

And a couple para's later:

 

"Hattori got out," Sleete continued softly. "Went on this mission to al'Thor, never knowing the depth of what it was about. She just didn't want to be in the Tower. Wise woman." He sighed, standing upright and laying a hand on Gawyn's shoulder. "Hammar was a good man."

 

"He was," Gawyn said, feeling a twist in his stomach.

 

"But he would have killed you," Sleete said. "Killed you cleanly and quickly. He was the one on the offensive, not you. He understood why you did what you did. Nobody made any good decisions that day. There weren't any good decisions to be made."

 

"I . . ." Gawyn just nodded. "Thank you."

 

Sorry Sutts but this kinda blows away your argument about Galad 3/5 vs Gawyn 2/5 in the Tower. Gawyn beat a Blademaster and another Warder 2 vs 1, 3 times in a row. :wink:

 

Also note the first part I bolded. I can't remember who posted half of that quote yesterday but I think it was intended to be taken out of context, Gawyn meant that it was dishonourable to take Hammar's sword even if he had the time.

 

Then next Sleete basically confirms that it was a 1 on 1 fight that Hammar instigated. Coulin's not mentioned so you can say what you will about him but I knew that something wasn't reading right yesterday about Hammar but I was too busy to look it up.

 

Edit: I forgot, Gawyn seems to be learning the ko'di, though he hasn't perfected it by the sounds and he still has a thing about Galad being more worthy.

Edited by YouMayCallMeElci
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