one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[RobertAlexWillis]

HA! Like I would ever be enough of a moron to run for Congress!

 

 

 

Fun idea about the bubble, Shard, though I can't really see it myself. Other than the Ta'veren themselves, the bubbles have not targeted any individuals that I can think of. Why should Asmo be a target?

 

Actually ... one of the bubbles hit Salidar, and there were no ta'veren there at the time.

 

Plus, some of the "wierd occurrences" that we only hear rumors of are probably other bubbles.

 

What we haven't seen, however, is a bubble effect on such a limited scale. Also, Asmodean recognized the killer ... the only bubble effect that has resulted in a personally recognizable effect was from the mirror in Rand's room ... if that had happened, Asmo would have said something like "Me? No!"

 

If anyone else needs my services, call 1-800-spoilsport.

[lou]

quote:

Asmodean has not gone one bit crazy in, what, 15 years of channeling. There is every possibility that he has been over the shadow during that time. It is likely.

 

If so, Amso may well know him. end quote

 

 

do you remember the chapter where mog is giving orders to the black sisters? she tells them "i dont care who was giving you orders in the tower, you take them now from me...blah blah blah"something like that. well, in liandran's pov she notes that it is interesting that mog does not know who the head of the black council is.the forsaken dont know all darkfriends, and they dont care to know them, they are merely tools.

[Guest Egwene]

Robert Alex, not sure if we were talking crossed wires or not... just to clarify... my comment was supposed to say the the only time a bubble attacked a single individual was in the case of Rand (mirror) Perrin (axe) and Mat (playing card). All other bubbles (like the one in salidar) seem to be random over a large group. And like you say... Asmo's reaction doesn't fit the bubble theory either.

 

 

Ok... I am re-posting this as I would love to get a few more comments *g*

 

page 64 KoD Hardback edition

Two sisters arguing about food spoilage:

 

They were arithmetists, of all things, as if logic could be reduced to numbers, and they seemed to be disagreeing on how those numbers were used.

"Calculating with Radun's Standard of Deviation, the rate is eleven times what it should be," Astrelle said in tight tones. "Furthermore, this must indicate the intervention of the Shadow -!

Tesan cut her off, beaded braids clicking as she shook her head. "The Shadow, yes, but Radun's Standard, it is outdated. You must use Covanen's First Rule of Medians, and calculate seperately for rotting meat or rotten. The correct answers, as I said, are thirteen and nine. I have not yet applied it to the flour or the beans and the lentils, but it seems intuitively obvious-"

Astrelle swelled up, and since she was a plump woman with a formidable bosom, she could swell impressivly."Covanen's First Rule?" she practically spluttered, breaking in. "That hasn't been properly proven yet. Correct and proven methods are always preferable to slipshod...."

 

Joke or hidden clue? The bolded phrase is almost synonymous with the Asmo question. Do you think RJ would have used it in a casual manner... or did he put this exchange there deliberatly, either to poke fun at us or possibly leave a small clue?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Robert Alex, not sure if we were talking crossed wires or not... just to clarify... my comment was supposed to say the the only time a bubble attacked a single individual was in the case of Rand (mirror) Perrin (axe) and Mat (playing card). All other bubbles (like the one in salidar) seem to be random over a large group. And like you say... Asmo's reaction doesn't fit the bubble theory either.

 

Ah ok ... I understand now, and you're right.

 

Either way our conclusion was the same.

[callandor]

maybe it was the high school bully back from 3000 years ago and asmo was like," You? no!"

[Guest Egwene]

Yay!! More votes for Moiraine 8)

 

Well, only six more needed to get into the 500... keep voting guys!! :P

[callandor]

i dont think that many people havent voted yet.

[RobertAlexWillis]

She meant 500 total votes, not 500 votes for Moiraine. And she is, naturally, right ... at the time of her post (and this one) the total # of votes cast is 494, or 6 less than 500.

[Demon_AS]

I voted for Moiraine, because I quite like the symmetry. Of course, it's quite possible that everyone else did it, but there you go :D.

[SBoydW]

Eh hemm.... let me just say this....

 

Grandeal Did it.

 

Thank you for your time.

[callandor]

:roll:

I dont really know right now who i should choose, but im pretty sure it wasnt Graendal. I know many people have said what her motive would be, but it doesnt seem to fit. No other chosen has killed another directly or even indirectly, and I dont think that graendal would.

[Guest Egwene]

Pssst.. callandor... choose Moiraine... the theory that provides the most fun :D

[callandor]

huh? no, i already voted a long time ago for the anyone else option cause i as pretty sue it was no one on there whose name was listed..

[Blackrose]

votes til 500 w00p

[eug33]

where in the book does it say he died? he simply dissapeared. for all we know he could travelling all over the place to gather information.

 

i don't think he died i think he is hiding because they know he has been helping rand and might want to kill him for it. so he remains in the shadow and comes when rand might need him.

 

i thought at first that the person that poped out from no where to help rand up in shadar logoth when fighting sammuel was asmodean and it was simply took dark for him to recognise him or is part of his methord of hiding (to change his face)

[Cybertrolloc]

where in the book does it say he died?

It doesn't, RJ said he died.

[Caramoore]

Warning!! This Is NOT a Direct Quote!!!

 

hehe, I could have sworn it said something like he had time to say "You!!" then death took him...

[eug33]

then hu is that mysterious person that helped rand when fighting sammael?

 

btw can u quote rj saying that he died plz because he might of word so it is unclear

[Maetel]

Warning!! This Is NOT a Direct Quote!!!

 

hehe' date=' I could have sworn it said something like he had time to say "You!!" then death took him...[/quote']

That's right. The book does say he died - Asmodean is definitely dead.

 

As for who killed him, even though someone proved me wrong about my theory I still truly believe that Egwene did it. Even though she was supposedly unconscious and in another city I still believe that her and Avhienda plotted together and murdered Asmodean. I have many reasons to still believe this even if it is quite unlikely.

Moiraine knew that Natael was a forsaken but she tolerated it since she knew that Rand had to learn how to channel from somebody experienced with the power. Egwene who spent a lot of time with Moiraine found out from Moiraine but she could not tolerate it, then when Moiraine disappeared she and Avhienda got together to plan his assassination. They both hated Natael even when they didn't know he was a Forsaken because Rand rejected them for Natael and we all know how proud both those girls are. They didn't like to be humiliated like that in front of a Darkfriend gleeman who turned out to be a Forsaken! Avhienda can Travel but supposedly can't remember the weaving, but perhaps she taught Egwene. Either way Egwene learnt how to Travel from someone, maybe not Avhienda but that's how she got to Asmodean.

 

One other suspect is Marillin Gemalphin, the one who likes cats from the Black Ajah. When Moghedian discovered the Black Ajah she gave each of them orders and she told Marillin to go kill Natael. Mog knew about it because she can walk in dreams and perhaps watched Egwene, Natael or Moiraine's dreams (someone who knew Natael was Asmodean). Then she ordered Marillin to murder him. We know Marillin was in Caemlyn from the rumours that there is an Aes Sedai healing cats. Also even though it is implied that Asmodean instantly recognized his murderer, he probably knew of Marillin because maybe he had contacted the Black Ajah also before he was weakened by Lanfear.

[Mr Ares]

Warning!! This Is NOT a Direct Quote!!!

 

hehe' date=' I could have sworn it said something like he had time to say "You!!" then death took him...[/quote']

That's right. The book does say he died - Asmodean is definitely dead.

 

As for who killed him, even though someone proved me wrong about my theory I still truly believe that Egwene did it. Even though she was supposedly unconscious and in another city I still believe that her and Avhienda plotted together and murdered Asmodean. I have many reasons to still believe this even if it is quite unlikely.

Moiraine knew that Natael was a forsaken but she tolerated it since she knew that Rand had to learn how to channel from somebody experienced with the power. Egwene who spent a lot of time with Moiraine found out from Moiraine but she could not tolerate it, then when Moiraine disappeared she and Avhienda got together to plan his assassination. They both hated Natael even when they didn't know he was a Forsaken because Rand rejected them for Natael and we all know how proud both those girls are. They didn't like to be humiliated like that in front of a Darkfriend gleeman who turned out to be a Forsaken! Avhienda can Travel but supposedly can't remember the weaving, but perhaps she taught Egwene. Either way Egwene learnt how to Travel from someone, maybe not Avhienda but that's how she got to Asmodean.

 

One other suspect is Marillin Gemalphin, the one who likes cats from the Black Ajah. When Moghedian discovered the Black Ajah she gave each of them orders and she told Marillin to go kill Natael. Mog knew about it because she can walk in dreams and perhaps watched Egwene, Natael or Moiraine's dreams (someone who knew Natael was Asmodean). Then she ordered Marillin to murder him. We know Marillin was in Caemlyn from the rumours that there is an Aes Sedai healing cats. Also even though it is implied that Asmodean instantly recognized his murderer, he probably knew of Marillin because maybe he had contacted the Black Ajah also before he was weakened by Lanfear.

Egwene learns to Travel in LoC chapter 37. As a second way of performing a weave is not as effective then she couldn't know how to Travel before this. Later evidence shows Avi still unable to remember so it couldn't have been Egwene and she certainly couldn't have learned from Aviendha. if it was Avi, that involves her excusing herself from Mat and running round a ridiculously circuitous route to get in front of Asmo in order to kill him with no evidence that this actually happened. There is also no evidence that I can recall that Asmo had any BA contacts, so how are we supposed to work out that it was Marillin when we have no evidence that Asmo knew her?

 

Then who is that mysterious person that helped Rand when fighting Sammael?

Probably Moridin.

 

No other Chosen has killed another directly or even indirectly' date=' and I dont think that Graendal would.[/quote']Actually, they have. Not any of the ones on screen, but in the War of the Shadow the chosen frequently fought against, and killed each other. So killing a traitor if given the oppotunity is in character for all the Chosen. It's just a question of the opportunity arising, which is the only assumption needed to make it Graendal. No one else needs that few assumptions.

 

So, new theories necessary all round then, young mortals.

[Eitoishi]

okay im only on page 27 of 140 so this may have already been touched on but it will take me forever to go through them all.

 

Most of the posts I saw were between CW Bob and Egwene and a few others i dont remember from the top of my head that gave me the motivation to post this.

 

From the way I interperet it Bob is strongly against too much speculation or invention. Now correct me if Im wrong but where does it say that Asmo actually saw his killer? Whos to say that he didnt smell something(in that case it could be grandeal's perfume). Or he could have felt the strength of the One power that was used. As for Rand sensing it maybe RJ didnt see that as being an issue to an obvious observation at the time. I mean if you've ever been in a situation to have to kill someone you dont really think of the consequences until after anyways. Lets say for arguments sake it was grandeal and it was a chance encounter, the last thing on her mind would be i wonder if that apprentice aiel woman in the garden will feel me channel when i kill this traitor. Say it were by some unexplainable reason a male channeler the same could go for them. Could have been a situation of kill or be killed and just acted. As for why RJ wouldnt have Rand sense this and be suspicious. Asmo dissapeared, whos to say Rand wouldnt think that he didnt just make a skimming gateway and run away when he felt the One power being channeled by a man. I mean in hindsight he may of logically come to that conclusion as to what happened to him in the first place. I know this is all speculation but my initial point was that to have a motive for any of the given suspects with the information at hand at the time of the murder you have to speculate some.

 

As i said before and I'd like to make more clear here is that not even a forsaken would be utterly clear headed when reacting to a opportune situation such as kililng off a traitor. And as far as i know he never saw the killer just knew who they were before or even just as he died. Somone that's been alive for as long as him doesnt have to only rely on sight to know of somone elses presence.

 

In no way from these arguments am i pointing the finger at any of the suspects just showing you all that you have to be extremely open minded and no offence to RJ or his genius but these are events that didnt actually take place so there could have been an error on his part that somone else may have not realised when devising their own theory and is still left unchecked. Now if this were a real murder scene then there would be no suspect because there was no murder. Just a Forsaken held against his will that saw an opportunity to escape. So in that sense you would have to speculate with the written words from RJ as to what really went down.

[eug33]

i'm goin to re read foh so i can build up a case/ theory. because at the moment we aren't goin anywhere in singling out anyone BECAUSE ALMOST EVERYONE IS POSSIBLE.

 

but it has to be someone that can travel or they wont be able to dash the body.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Slayer can't Travel, and he could get rid of the body. Actually, murderers throughout the ages have been getting rid of bodies. So that assertion is just silly.

[eug33]

but he didn't have much time to kill him though the quickest will be to travel way or hide him/herself with the one power which will be silly because rand knows the weaves and know that that is possible.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Quickest? Maybe. But not the only possible.

 

Look, I personally think that it is someone who could Travel. I'm 99.9% sure it was Graendal, for alot of reasons. But Travelling is not the only explanation possible for a missing body.