one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[Bob T Dwarf]

That take on things implies a kind of resignation to me. The way the passage is written he is totally shocked, not resigned to his fate.

 

The person he sees is not merely a surprise but someone who is totally out-of-place from his point of view. Impossibly out-of-place.

[Jedimuppet]

That take on things implies a kind of resignation to me. The way the passage is written he is totally shocked' date=' not resigned to his fate.

 

The person he sees is not merely a surprise but someone who is totally out-of-place from his point of view. Impossibly out-of-place.[/quote']

 

He constantly talks about whenever he's found, he's a dead man. He talks about knowing it's going to happen, just not when. He *is* resigned. He's only shocked in the sense he wasn't prepared for it in the pantry, but not in who it is; just that the time is now.

J

[Bob T Dwarf]

Rand's severing of his ties to the DO mean that he's cut off from potential immortality. That alone makes him resigned to eventually dying. It doesn't mean he's resigned to dying today. And it doesn't mean that who he saw was not a complete surprise.

 

He stops immediately. The blood drains from his face. That's a whole lot of surprise. I don't think that much surprise is explained entirely by the timing of the event. The timing might explain the, "No!", but not the "You?".

 

The, "You?" is total astonishement. As in, "Impossible! You can't be here!" Maybe even, "You can't be anywhere! You're dead!"

[Jedimuppet]

Rand's severing of his ties to the DO mean that he's cut off from potential immortality. That alone makes him resigned to eventually dying. It doesn't mean he's resigned to dying today. And it doesn't mean that who he saw was not a complete surprise.

 

He stops immediately. The blood drains from his face. That's a whole lot of surprise. I don't think that much surprise is explained entirely by the timing of the event. The timing might explain the' date=' "No!", but not the "You?".

 

The, "You?" is total astonishement. As in, "Impossible! You can't be here!" Maybe even, "You can't be anywhere! You're dead!"[/quote']

 

YOu have to go back and read...he's constantly saying that Rand is his tuft of grass keeping him falling off the cliff. He knows he's going to die badly, but he won't stop hanging on..

 

He's always talking about it.

J

[Bob T Dwarf]

Not always. He's certainly thinking about it when he leaves the garden.

 

In fact it is what he's thinking just as he pulls open that door.

...It was not that he had been reborn as a new man at all, but he would cling to that tuft of grass on the cliff's brink as long as he could. Thge roots would give way eventually, the long fall would come, but until then he was still alive.

 

He pulled open a small door...

 

He's using the thought to buck-up his spirits. A way to make himself feel more optomistic.

[Jedimuppet]

Not always. He's certainly thinking about it when he leaves the garden.

 

In fact it is what he's thinking just as he pulls open that door.

...It was not that he had been reborn as a new man at all' date=' but he would cling to that tuft of grass on the cliff's brink as long as he could. Thge roots would give way eventually, the long fall would come, [i']but until then he was still alive.[/i]

 

He pulled open a small door...

 

He's using the thought to buck-up his spirits. A way to make himself feel more optomistic.

 

He's not making himself optimistic at all. He's resigning himself.

J

[havoc110]

I agree that he is resigning himself. He finds the irony in his "dead man walking" role.

 

But that is only my interpretation. Well, mine and those posters I am agreeing with.

 

But this is a good example of the problem with our fact finding. There is not that much in the actual text of the book, especially in the 3 paragraphs of Glowing Embers. We've all read them. We know there is a door. We know Asmo says "You? No!" While I agree that his words express (a) recognition of the person, (b) surprise at seeing the person, and © knowledge that this person was there to kill him; that is speculation only.

 

I suggest we look elsewhere for our fact-finding. And I don't think we need to limit the scope of the search to the first 8 books, either. I don't think anything has been put forth by RJ saying that there would be no more clues after PoD, has there?

[havoc110]

Since I am just starting the series over, I have also started a fact-finding mission.

 

It seems that there is not much in the first half of EotW, but here is a quote used in this thread earlier:

 

Moiraine, EotW ch. 13, Choices

 

"Before I let the Dark One have you, I will destroy you myself."

 

This seems very close to contradicting the 3 oaths, to me, but I don't think that is an important point.

 

This has appeared as evidence on just how determined Moiraine is/was. I do not think her determination is/was ever in any doubt by any of us. I submit that there is no character more dedicated and determined to the cause of Light than Moiraine. It is primarily for this reason that she is a suspect, given the fact that she is either presumed dead or at the very least in another world at the time of the murder.

 

What remains in doubt is the apparent contradiction between her letter to Rand and her involvement, if any, in Asmo's murder. Also in question is how she may have gotten from Finnland to Randland (to commit the murder) and back to Finnland(to perhaps be rescued in the future by Thom, Mat, and one other).

[Jedimuppet]

Since I am just starting the series over' date=' I have also started a fact-finding mission.

 

It seems that there is not much in the first half of EotW, but here is a quote used in this thread earlier:

 

Moiraine, EotW ch. 13, Choices

 

"Before I let the Dark One have you, I will destroy you myself."

 

This seems very close to contradicting the 3 oaths, to me, but I don't think that is an important point.

 

This has appeared as evidence on just how determined Moiraine is/was. I do not think her determination is/was ever in any doubt by any of us. I submit that there is no character more dedicated and determined to the cause of Light than Moiraine. It is primarily for this reason that she is a suspect, given the fact that she is either presumed dead or at the very least in another world at the time of the murder.

 

What remains in doubt is the apparent contradiction between her letter to Rand and her involvement, if any, in Asmo's murder. Also in question is how she may have gotten from Finnland to Randland (to commit the murder) and back to Finnland(to perhaps be rescued in the future by Thom, Mat, and one other).[/quote']

 

The only thing the oaths prohibit is killing with the power, not the more normal kind.

J

[Guest Egwene]

There are supposedly about 1200 members of this forum out there, that have not yet voted in this poll :( *hands a cookie to everyone that comes in to vote :) *

 

...and surely there must be more people out there with interesting theories?!

 

Now that some of the die hards seem to be resting for a bit, why don't you give it a go and post that theory of yours that you've been pondering over the years... 8)

[Guest Egwene]

There are supposedly about 1200 members of this forum out there, that have not yet voted in this poll :( *hands a cookie to everyone that comes in to vote :) *

 

...and surely there must be more people out there with interesting theories?!

 

Now that some of the die hards seem to be resting for a bit, why don't you give it a go and post that theory of yours that you've been pondering over the years... 8)

[bcxanth]

Arnold, from the Hey Arnold cartoon show, did it. Why? Well, I haven't figured that part out yet.

[bcxanth]

Arnold, from the Hey Arnold cartoon show, did it. Why? Well, I haven't figured that part out yet.

[Leopoled Boothe]

Sammael. See two servant theory on "Wheel of Time FAQ.

[Leopoled Boothe]

Sammael. See two servant theory on "Wheel of Time FAQ.

[havoc110]

The two servant theory appears on Encyclopaedia WoT, for those looking for it.

[havoc110]

The two servant theory appears on Encyclopaedia WoT, for those looking for it.

[Angel28]

Ok first of all I have never given this much thought I'm only casting a vote and posting an opinion because Egwene asked me to in her Welcome. With everthing going on in RJ's wonderful books the death of Asmodean and who killed never ranked to high with me. Actually when I first discovered that there was so many people obsessed with who did it the only thing I could think is Why? That being said I haven't given it much thought until just now. It can't be Moiraine or Lanfear they're both out of the picture at this point there is no way I think that she could have done it, but that dosn't mean that she was involved in some way though she could have left orders with Lan to dispatch him in some way before he left...that could account for the shock, "You (I saw you leave, or I thought you left)" So Lan could have done although that's unlikley. It could have been Slayer, sent by one of the Forsaken to kill him but I also find this as dougtful as Lan for one reason. His body is never discovered, Rand assumes that Asmodean has ran off some place, which leads me to believe that his body is destroyed by the power in some way or was taken away. I believe this lowers the Suspects (in my Opinion) to one of his fellow Chosen. When I first read it my first thought was that it was Ishmeal...that he was somehow still alive and had come to finnish him off for what ever reason. I have since discarded that theory since he comes back later in a new body, that Asmodean had no way of knowing what he looked like. But I'm not sure why any of the Forsaken would even bother taking the time to do it..and how would they know were he was going to be...perhaps he stubled on something that he wasn't suppose to see and he was killed and taken out of the picture so he couldn't tell Rand. I really don't know and like I said I've never given it much thought...but if I had to guess I would say it was one of the Forsaken I just don't know which one would do it and why...I guess it's just one of those things we'll have to "Read and Find Out."

 

Angel

[Guest Egwene]

Keep voting, guys!!! :D

[Samitsu]

There is a part when He shivvers in that Paragraph. I think that meant that a Female Forsaken came Into the pantry intentionally trough a gateway, and by all evidence it must have been grandeal

[bcxanth]

He shivered at the thought of how he was "reborn." Because Rand used Balefire on the one who was responsible for Asmo's first death. That's a chilling thought to someone, not only to know that you had been dead, but then something as scary as balefire was used to undo it.

[Guest Egwene]

Well, it does look like Graendal is definately the favourite supect. However... 25 people have voted for it to be someone other than those mentioned... but who? I don't think there have been many other suspects brought forward..

 

If you voted for 'other'.... who did you have in mind? The only ones I can think of are Bela (I can't believe 25 people voted for her :shock: ), the Aes Sedai that was Rhavin's toy (though my post on her didn't get any response and I voted for Moiraine in any case), a darkfriend in Bashere's company, Aviendha and... well, can't think of anyone else...!!????

[Jedimuppet]

Well' date=' it does look like Graendal is definately the favourite supect. However... 25 people have voted for it to be someone other than those mentioned... but who? I don't think there have been many other suspects brought forward..

 

If you voted for 'other'.... who did you have in mind? The only ones I can think of are Bela (I can't believe 25 people voted for her :shock: ), the Aes Sedai that was Rhavin's toy (though my post on her didn't get any response and I voted for Moiraine in any case), a darkfriend in Bashere's company, Aviendha and... well, can't think of anyone else...!!????[/quote']

 

Well, I don't think everyone is aware of RJ's comments about it being someone we know, so you'd have to include SH, Taim, Slayer, Fain, etc.

 

Most of those are defunct because of various comments by Rj, but you never really know what people knwo when they select an answer in a poll.

J

[Guest Egwene]

Well, I included SH in the poll, because several people suggested him on the temp board. Guess Taim, Slayer and Fain would be suspects to some people, too.

 

Thanks Jedi.. I just couldn't think of who else people might have been suspecting that would account for so many votes under the 'other' option...

[Graendals favourite]

Did you by the way notice Deira Bashere's encounter with the thiefs in her tent? Kind of like Asmodean going through that door. Exactly, in fact, whatever the circumstances:

 

Deira scowled at him, then grunted a short, involuntary laugh. "I will start at the beginning, Davram. And go slowly, so you can understand," she added with a small smile, pausing to thank the women who draped a white linen sheet around her bare torso. "I returned from my ride to find two strange men ransacking our tent. They drew daggers, so naturally, I hit one of them with a chair and stabbed the other." She directed a grimace at her cut arm. "Not well enough, since he managed to touch me. Then Zavion and some of the others came in, and the pair fled through a slit they had made in the rear of the tent."

 

Just to see if this will rekindle anything.