one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[Guest Egwene]

Graendals'Fav, ...not sure where you make the connection? It reminds me more of the deliberately failed staged attack on Elayne...

[Graendals favourite]

The connection is there, both Asmo and Deira stumbled upon someone.

 

Elayne on the other hand was drugged, well of course Mellar "happened" to be near, but he knew to expect what was inside. As with Dobraine, both in CoT prologue, it didn't seem killing Deira (or Bashere) was a priority, but the attempt was made immediately upon being caught. Same as Asmodean, except that he obviously never had the chance to fight back.

[Guest cwestervelt]

The connection is there' date=' both Asmo and Deira stumbled upon someone.

 

Elayne on the other hand was drugged, well of course Mellar "happened" to be near, but he knew to expect what was inside. As with Dobraine, both in CoT prologue, it didn't seem killing Deira (or Bashere) was a priority, but the attempt was made immediately upon being caught. Same as Asmodean, except that he obviously never had the chance to fight back.[/quote']

 

Asmodean was the target from the outset, there is nothing to suggest he interrupted a search. The attack on Deira parallels the one on Dobraine and both appear to have been incidentals. What makes them interesting is that both attacks appear to have happened because the victims interrupted a search.

 

Both of the searches being interrupted is almost too coincidental. If it weren't for the apparent incompetance of the attackers as assassins, I would have said the real goal was the assassination of Davram and Dobraine, with the search as a cover.

[Graendals favourite]

I suppose they might have been meant as a provocation. So that Rand would then hurry to relocate the sa'angreal or the seals or whatever, and lead the bad guys to him or them. Then it would have made sense to have them be caught at the search, attempt the life of people important to Rand, possibly killing one.

 

As to Asmo, I still think those well parallel the murder scene, but that's nothing new from me really, just something I perceive as a hint.

[Guest Egwene]

only another 4 votes needed to hit the 200 votes... if you haven't as yet... hit those buttons.. :P

[Aran Alandar]

i voted for another forsaken, and my thought is Demandred. This dude is into way more than i think has been revelaed so far. He was outside of Ishamael/Moridin. the favorite to be Nae'blis. so yeah.

[Prempt]

Can't make an educated vote yet, I'm only on my first read and just over half way through with KoD. I just came to the part where Camelyn has "changed" and people were getting lost. I wonder if this has something to do with his death. He was killed in Camelyn no? It's been a while since I've read TFoH.

 

I forget where I heard it, but I believe RJ said that most people who guess on Asmo's killer are wrong so I am thinking that the "usual suspects" are wrong. Maybe I am way off in left field, but just my thoughts.

[havoc110]

I forget where I heard it' date=' but I believe RJ said that most people who guess on Asmo's killer are wrong so I am thinking that the "usual suspects" are wrong. Maybe I am way off in left field, but just my thoughts.[/quote']

 

Chek RJ's words on this matter, as well as some discussion on this thread. He says very few people get the circumstances of the murder correct. So many people COULD have the correct suspect, but incorrect weapon of choice, motive, etc.

[Prempt]

I have looked at several pages of this topic but at 84 pages now, it gets confusing for me easily. Granted, I read it but on my first read, there is so much information I am still clueless about, including the fine details needed to figure out who the actual killer is. I definetly plan on reading it again, so I will pay special attention as I read again. It just seems to me that even though he says that we're given enough details to figure out who the killer is, it doesn't seem like there is enough proof to make it 100% certain.

[Guest Egwene]

One of the problems with that comment that RJ is supposed to have made, is no one seems to know when it was made and who was the favourite suspect at the time. So it is difficult to say whether it still holds true for what people think now...

[Llewin]

I'm SURE someone can find the direct quote RJ made about the Asmodean thing when he first found out about how big a debate it had become... but here is what I remember.

 

I remember him indicating he was surprised it was such a mystery and that based on the information given up to the point Asmodean was killed, it should have been obvious who did it.

 

I dont specifically remember him saying that most of the guesses were wrong but I wont put it past him :)

 

But with the first comment we are sort of forced to limit ourselves to books 1 - 5...

 

Actually something is bubbling up in my memory about him indicating he left atleast one more hint in another book after book 5... but i dont remember which one...

 

But even so ...theoretically we're supposed to have all the info we need to figure it out by the time asmodean is killed...

 

So at that time whoever it is had to have already been introduced and would have to be fairly clear that they knew Asmodean/Asmodean knew them...

 

If it wasnt for that I'd say it was one of the Gholam... but we didnt even know of them in book 5.

[havoc110]

I can only find indirect sources:

 

This from John Novak's report of a Northern Virginia Path of Daggers Signing. (I actually may have been there that day as well, but have no recollection of the Q/A session):

 

"Asmodean is, and I quote, road-kill. And he still claims there are many

indirect clues from tFoH on about who killed him. He also claims that

very, very few of the fan letters he gets are correct about it."

 

Apparently this is a quote from another signing:

 

"So, who killed Asmodean? Mmmm, somebody's figured out who's killed Asmodean. A correct deduction, from the evidence as given in the books. It can be done, guys. [crowds laughs slightly] It has been done. I have not told the person who made the deduction that he or she has made the correct deduction... [indistinct] ...Um, and I'm not going to tell you who he or she is that did it. Because I'm having too much fun watching you squirm. [crowd laughs] But the fact is, that it can be figured out from the evidence in the books, okay? Okay." JAN 15, 2003: Lexington, KY: Joseph-Beth Booksellers

[aronsamma]

I didn't read much beyond page 6 or so, so these points might have been mentioned already.

 

- Moiraine said in her letter about Asmo, "I cannot approve wholly, but I understand. Perhaps it was the only way. Yet be careful of him." I don't think she would say that and then kill him.

 

- The third Oath says that she can only channel against shadowspawn and in defense of herself/others. The Forsaken aren't shadowspawn, and he wasn't attacking her. I also doubt she could physically overcome him...

 

- We don't know who Shadar Haran or Moridin are at this point, and RJ said it could be done without reading further.

[Llewin]

Just to play Dark One's Advocate... I think an Aes Sedai could think her way in to believing that the Forsaken are Shadowspawn... No one really considers them "people" in the everyday world, they've been raised to almost demi-god status...

[Jonn]

Just to play Dark One's Advocate... I think an Aes Sedai could think her way in to believing that the Forsaken are Shadowspawn... No one really considers them "people" in the everyday world' date=' they've been raised to almost demi-god status...[/quote']

 

No, One of the Forsaken are considered as bad as Shadowspawn. She iced Bel'al without blinking about it, for example. I beleive it was also explained that some darkfriends are so deeply corrupted that an Aes Sedai can feel it and should she choose to can eliminate them free of the Oaths. I would assume one of the Forsaken would fall under that category.

[Llewin]

Agreed... basically theres the proof that a 3rd age aes sedai could have done it.

 

So my question to each of you is... the first time you read the books and Asmodean got iced what was your gut instinct... who did you think it was right at that moment the first time you read it?

 

Me? Lanfear.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Agreed... basically theres the proof that a 3rd age aes sedai could have done it.

 

So my question to each of you is... the first time you read the books and Asmodean got iced what was your gut instinct... who did you think it was right at that moment the first time you read it?

 

Me? Lanfear.

 

You're asking to re-open the whole can of worms. Anyway, with my very first reading, the initial and immediate gut reaction was, "So Moiraine is alive." I've been wainting ever since then for her return. Nothing in who knows how many re-reads has made me reconsider that. It was intuitively obvious to the casual observer. :D

[Llewin]

Lol... yeah well its a fun can...

[rd2000]

I had no intuitively obvious gut answer when I first read that. I had no idea who killed him. My first thoughts after reading it were that it was a clue that would later be revealed, like a teaser, or cliffhanger that lots of old t.v. shows would end on.

 

I still think that whoever ends up being the killer, a lot of people here are going to be able to poke all kinds of holes in RJ's answer. I think he screwed the pooch on his plotline and Asmodean's killer reveals that. The only way I can see right now for him to salvage that is to name Moridin the killer. But even that screws with the "you, no!" statement.

[Jonn]

Yeah, I've always struggled to see how anyone could have come up with Graendal as a first guess at the moment of the first reading.

 

At that point, any of the Forsaken who were still alive could have been the killer, as we had no idea of the constraints that governed, like prior introduction, latter evidence and intuitively obvious.

 

At that point any of the Forsaken would have done for an answer, but the fact remains that Asmodean was shocked to see his killer even seconds after acknowledging that all of the Chosen would be gunning for him, hence implying that he really wouldn't be that shocked to be killed at any time by one of them.

 

His response though was befuddlement and shock...

 

There's no logic behind settling for any one of the known living Forsaken at that point, so obviusly it had to be someone else, whose presence was a shock, yet should have been recognized by both the victim and apparently the reader at that point.

 

How shocking would it be to have Moiraine who had supposedly just died on screen along with Lanfear, show up so dramatically and kill Asmodean.

 

Someone like Graendal doesn't really produce the same effect at first read.

[Guest Egwene]

My gut reaction at the time was Lanfear, but I have Moiraine close second. Much like Jonn, those two were the only ones that I felt would get this mixed reaction of amazed shock and delayed reaction i.e. the realisation of death as a consequence of this person turning up...

[MsDanya]

graendal did it!!!! :D

[Guest Egwene]

hope you voted

[MsDanya]

hah! i voted back when it was merely a few pages long!! lol.. i voted Graendal! :D

[Guest cwestervelt]

hah! i voted back when it was merely a few pages long!! lol.. i voted Graendal! :D

 

I hope you aren't too disapointed when it turns out that Graendal is exactly what the books show her to be. Sooner or later people have to start to realize she is incapable of effectual action. :)