[ADVANCED/KITCHEN SINK] The Axe or the Hammer - GAME OVER

[bgrishinko]

Yeah, I'm lost on that comment too.

[bgrishinko]

@meesh concerning desperation, you did say you weren't applying the term desperate to me yes, but you still implied I was scared moving towards desperate. Same thing in my mind, though you wanted to avoid calling me that.

 

Also, sorry if things have been rough for you in RL, hope things get better, but I've gotta judge from what I see here and ignore outside game things (barring LoAs).

[Nolder]

is it just me or is blackhoof agreeing with everyone?

 

Yeah, what a slimy slimeball.

not what I was saying...

 

Then what were you trying to say?

exactly what I said

[amegakure]

Wombs jumped on nolders comment just as quick as hoof has been doing..hence twins

[ed2funy]

Edward has nothing to add. Carry on.

[Blackhoof]

Also the last part here sounds a bit haughty. Words like the "philosophy you spout" aren't kind words.

In any case, like I said, its a feeling. None of this stuff is essentially wrong or bad, just seems off for you somehow. Your usually quite pleasant and I'm getting a lot of blaming and negative feelings around the board.

 

Your reactions to such a small post (kind of tongue in cheek) about moving my vote to you provoked such a strong reaction that it made me willing to place a vote for now.

To answer some of your questions, I brought up the Day 1 stuff cause I missed that whole conversation and seemed like a good way to segway to my thoughts.

 

Also, how am I being desperate? And I didn't twist your words or even really quote anything you said before this post. Now, I could understand you thinking I'm twisting your words in my posts above, but I'm just giving my honest reactions to certain things and maybe you are inadvertently giving weird vibes to me because of it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.

 

Also, I misspoke about shrugging it off. My meaning was more that most people wouldn't get all hopped up about it. Your reaction felt quite upset for so little words from me.

Sorry, should have also grabbed that first bit in the last response.

 

BG, you are still spouting crap. "You're usually pleasant and I'm getting a lot of blaming around the board," wth, it's mafia. First of all, that's not even true. Mafia is probably the most common place for my aggressiveness and yes, anger. I get pissed off more in mafia than anywhere else, since I take it so seriously.

Secondly, this is all meta, so I can respond in kind. I'll point to my interaction with Red in Nol's Locker Room game, or my interaction with Tina in that game. Or even my interaction with Levity when she kept saying my vote was all about Amega's D1 philosophy in this game. When something irritates me, or I'm really certain I'm right, I don't sit around looking pretty and trying not to offend people. I say what I think and I go after them. This isn't new.

 

Also meta, but the past month has been rough on me--I'm never in a good mood anymore. I'm trying not to take anything personally, and to keep it all in the game, but I'm still more likely to be blunt and aggressive about how I say things. Deal with it; it has nothing to do with this game in particular.

 

About the "haughty" comment, it wasn't meant that way. What I was saying was that it's been tested time after time and has been proven that lynching on D1 for information as opposed for strict scum-hunting works just as well as, if not better than, not lynching on D1. For support, I was saying that those of us who have played for a while can attest to that fact. If it didn't work, we wouldn't still be playing that way. I'm not trying to dis anyone, I'm just saying that Des's attitude that No Lynch makes most sense and that the traditional D1 philosophy is flawed is ridiculous, because if he was right, then everyone would have started doing that long ago. So it was pointless for him to continue using that as an excuse to call people scummy. Because it's not scummy to believe something different than yourself related to game philosophy.

 

To the Bold--it seemed really snarky, and also it came across very much like you were trying to make me look scummy for asking you why you had placed a vote. Most of my reaction that I gave to that post was based on what I talked most about--your saying that as I was in a discussion with Red you couldn't say anything....if that was a joke, it didn't come off that way.

 

To the Underlined--Please, please, read. You haven't been, can you start any time soon? I did say VERY CLEARLY that I'm not applying the term "desperate" to you. I went out of my way to say that. Why would you ignore it?

 

Yes, you're misunderstanding me, if that's actually what it is....since I've pointed out at least one glaring misunderstanding in earlier posts. I didn't say you were twisting words, but twisting how everything was seen by your reaction. How you react and what you say can definitely have an effect on how people see what you responded to.... Again, it looked to me like you were reacting as if I'd said "Why are you voting Levity?!?!? Don't do that!!!" and not just asked a simple question. As if I was saying there was something wrong with your vote--there wasn't; I just wanted to know why you placed it. Hence my reaction. Maybe I read you wrong, but that's how it looked to me.

 

Italics--meh, pretty much addressed that above--maybe it was a misunderstanding, or maybe it wasn't but you're doing a good job of backtracking.

 

Also, Hoof, are you EVER going to have any original thoughts in this game?

 

yes, most likely. the reason i go "yeah thats right VOTE X" is because i feel silly if i see a good case, make an identical one, and then vote off that.

 

as to your post- i think you are being far too aggressive. aggressiveness has it's place, its true, but there is a time and a place and you seem to be treating BG's mild comments like full-on personal attacks, it does not looks that way to me at all. if anything, you are the one spouting crap- not all the time mind you, but some of the time.

 

is it just me or is blackhoof agreeing with everyone?

 

well i dont agree with meesh, and by saying that i have just disagreed with you, so....

 

your point is invalid, so i win :D

[Leyrann]

Sorry for not being here... I was home a few hours later than I thought yesterday, and didn't have time to read.

 

Unvote Vote Meeshy

 

 

That's exactly the kind of reaction I was looking for. Large and over blown. Most town woulda shrugged it off I think.

 

Plus I'm on my phone right now, so I can't go get quotes and whatnot.

 

I disagree. And I must say I don't see why a townie should do something like this. VOTE BG.

[Ledinna Sedai]

I don't see how my information was false.

Let's take a look

Sir Nolder: Why, having ripped into the good Mr. Soy Boyo for voting amegakure without explicitly wishing to lynch him, did thee then park your vote on Leelou simply because it was a train?

my vote on Leelou is post #10 in this game

for those who don't want to check (aka everyone apparently) that is looooooong before I "ripped" into Soy for voting Amega which happened in from post #51 to post #62

 

additionally you're implying that I engaged Soy because Soy voted Amega without wishing to lynch him

that is incorrect

Soy himself admits he's "willing to lynch anyone" in post #57, this includes Amega

I'm willing to lynch anyone.

as for me, I detail in post #51 what I found scummy about Soys vote

"cast one out there and hope" implies two things to me

1. that you know that this is fairly weak reasoning

2. despite the weakness of your case you would actually want Amega lynched over it

 

those two things lead me to think that you therefore know Amega is not on your team because why else would you want to lynch someone over such weak reasoning?

based on what you said it looks like you're going for an "easy lynch"

obviously it has nothing to do with him not being willing to lynch Amega as we both are clearly stating the exact opposite

 

Could you please tell me how voting randomly at the start of day one is better than voting with reason at the start of day one?

when did I say that?

 

I don't understand your back-and-forth with Song, especially given that Boyo hardly raised a convincing case on ameg in the first place.

probably because the discussion I had with Song had little to nothing to do with Soy

 

Did you want to lynch Leelou?

sure

I still do

 

I didn't mean to give the impression that I've never cared about what you had to say.

In any case, I'm not too interested in the answer, but in his behaviour.

you're either lying then or you're lying now

 

So, I'm now going to explain why I voted and hope I won't get lynched.

 

By the time I posted my vote (sorry, can't use the multiquote so don't have that one here) I was in a real combination of hurry and anger myself (I'm going to play in a concert today with no practise for 2 days, noticed that a 3-page application letter for Thursday wasn't even started, and exam week is going to start soon again) and wanted to make it short.

 

As reading in that situation the underlined parts and the longness of the explanation gave me the view it was aggressive (of course combined to what his earlier posts were like)

 

Now as I'm calmer (though the concert still makes me panic) I see that the whole post was just normal. I'm sorry for that, Nold. Unvote.

[Red2111]

i dunno about meesh, i've seen her react like that both as town and as scum; so it's a null tell for me.

 

 

BG is also a reactionary player reguardless of alignemnt; so once again a null tell.

 

 

[bgrishinko]

Sorry for not being here... I was home a few hours later than I thought yesterday, and didn't have time to read.

 

Unvote Vote Meeshy

 

 

That's exactly the kind of reaction I was looking for. Large and over blown. Most town woulda shrugged it off I think.

 

Plus I'm on my phone right now, so I can't go get quotes and whatnot.

 

I disagree. And I must say I don't see why a townie should do something like this. VOTE BG.

 

Better to poke and prod and take risks on Day 1. Right now, I'd willing to give Meesh the benifit of the doubt now that she's had a little time to cool off and maybe we can have a better conversation.

[mmeeshal]

 

Maybe a conversation that is phrased much more nicely, yeah....

 

But I still think you were twisting, BG. Nothing's going to change that opinion. I can buy that you were trying to get reactions, but I have a dislike for how you did it--again, it seems like you were aiming for the reaction you got, which means you were doing whatever you had to in order to get it. Which means that I would have been reacting legitimately, if a tad extremely. I don't like manipulation; it seems pointless for town to do.

 

So my vote stays for now. I've heard about devious BG, and I trust my instincts on this one--that was a scummy manipulative move, not an honest attempt to gain information.

[Sakaea]

Can we get a VC, please?

 

Thoughts: I think Meesh is coming off as irritated townie. BG I'm unsure of atm, and Dinna I think is scum, as she still hasn't replied to what was said yesterday about her scum slip. So, Vote Dinna

[Sakaea]

Whoa, I totally missed a whole page. Hold on.

[Sakaea]

Not to brush off your RL stuff, Dinna, but my vote stands for now. Seems to me your whole defense of your vote was RL stuff.

[keyholder21]

though last time I believed him he turned out to be scum .

when was this?

 

I can't answer this because it's an ongoing game.

 

 

I think the exchange between Meesh and BG is each of them seeing what they want to see in the other's posts rather than what's actually there. Though I suppose that's part of mafia...I don't think either of them have been particularly scummy. Though I do see overreaction in Meesh's posts. For someone who has mentioned several times that you've played a lot of mafia, you should know that that will be seen as scummy most of the time. Especially the further we get into the game.

 

Also, unvote.

 

ED. Thoughts on the game?

[mmeeshal]

FYI, doesn't feel like overreaction when I'm doing it. Can't stop something you don't know exists.

 

I still don't feel like I overreacted, necessarily; more that I was very abrasive and extreme in how I handled it. Because nothing of what I think has changed between my charged emotional state and now, when I'm much calmer.

[SBoydW]

FYI, doesn't feel like overreaction when I'm doing it. Can't stop something you don't know exists.

 

I still don't feel like I overreacted, necessarily; more that I was very abrasive and extreme in how I handled it. Because nothing of what I think has changed between my charged emotional state and now, when I'm much calmer.

 

Not to nit pick, but that's kinda the definition of overreaction. However, I agree with you about BG. I think he did what he had to, to get you to blow up like that, so that he could point a finger at your reaction as scummy.

 

FoS at BG.

[mmeeshal]

Meh, I guess; I guess my definition of overreaction in this case was that there was nothing to get worked up about and thus my reaction was totally pointless. Yours makes more sense, though. I apologize for my overreaction, everybody. I'll try to be more calm when handling things, no matter how irritating they may be. XD

[bgrishinko]

Vote Levity

 

 

Day one for me is all about instinct and feelings. I think this Day 1 discussion of appropriate ways to play is all blah blah blah and I don't really care. Everyone plays their own way. Some like to joke vote, some don't. Some like trains, some don't... yadda yadda. If we all agreed on the same way to play it, then nothing would ever get done on Day 1. So I'm perfectly happy having everyone play it the way they want to play it.

 

That being said, rarely will you find anything substantial or conclusive on Day 1. Occasionally there will be a rare slip or something, but chances are no. Who FoS'd who, who trained when, how and why? It all blends together town and mafia.... therefore it comes back to feelings to me.

 

Therefore Levity and yourself have given me the most weary feelings.

 

You were in a discussion with Red and didn't want to inturrupt that, so I'd thought I'd put my say on Lev.

 

If you want, I can move to you and we can go from there.

 

 

 

 

What a snark you are, BG.

 

Thank you for your explanation, though. And I know you're saying it's mostly feelings, but can you pinpoint what it was that makes you "weary" of myself and Levity?

 

I'm assuming it had something to do with our interaction, but if not, then I'm *most* interested in hearing why I seem...off (?) to you, and secondarily interested in any thoughts you have on Levity.

 

If I had kept notes, then probably, and I'll probably need to go back eventually and get something to back it up, maybe later.

 

But in case you are wondering ^^^ post doesn't help my feelings get any better.

 

I shrunk the irrelevant part. But this is everything I posted before the "abrasive and extreme" follow up. Does it look like I'm pushing super hard or relentlessly badgering someone to make sure there was only one reaction, as has been implied by a few people? There are many ways this could have been handled differently.

 

Unvote Vote Meeshy

 

 

That's exactly the kind of reaction I was looking for. Large and over blown. Most town woulda shrugged it off I think.

 

Plus I'm on my phone right now, so I can't go get quotes and whatnot.

 

Then I posted ^^^ and got another huge reaction accusing me of intentionally not having anything to quote and back myself up, etc. etc.

 

Everything afterthat is understandable. I went back and found some stuff that rung weird to me. Nothing overtly bad (unless you count linking people), just felt off for some reason for the most part. She refutted each of my arguements, I misunderstood some of what she said, yadda, yadda, and here we are.

 

I just wanted to set the record straight as people try to pin prick and say I was goading her into an overblown reaction on purpose. I was looking for a reaction, yes. An overblown and highly defensive one tends to be more scummy to me. Therefore, that's what I was looking for.

[mmeeshal]

I am preeeetty sure that when I say you haven't answered my question, I'm not wrong. You have given absolutely no information on why you were wary of Levity, which was all I was asking in the first place, and so when I say you're refusing to answer my question, you still are. That's the whole reason this got started.

 

I asked, you dodged and slashed, I responded with outrage at your dodging AND slashing, you ran with it to make it the biggest issue of the moment.

 

Also, why are you saying my first real response to you was "abrasive and extreme?" That terminology I am applying to how I reacted to when you did post quotes; before then, I was irked, but I didn't feel I was being especially obnoxious or anything. Simple reaction, there.

 

No one said you were pushing super hard or relentlessly badgering someone, did they? That's not the only way to get under someone's skin, as I'm sure you know. You saw how your ridiculous (and yes, it was ridiculous) post about how it was all based on feelings and using my discussion with Red as an excuse for not giving reasons with your vote as well as acting as though I knew you were saying you thought Levity AND me were suspicious from the get-go and I didn't want you to vote either, was something I felt the need to respond to. So you did more of the same. Easy.

 

Argh, I have more thoughts but I have to go because...welll...it's irritating and I don't want to rant about my mom here so I have to go. Back later.

[bgrishinko]

But I wasn't trying to trick her into it as the only reaction possible.

[bgrishinko]

Okay, if you feel that strongly I'll go and find whatever it was that gave me weird feelings on Lev if that makes you happy.

 

Also I said it was IMPLIED about the pushing hard and badgering comment. . i.e. "I think he did what he had to, to get you to blow up like that" sounds very much to me like "He did what he had to, to make sure his family was safe" in an action movie trailer after some explosion or something. Its the kind of wordplay that implies things, but it may not be intentional, so I just wanted to set the record straight.

[SBoydW]

Day one for me is all about instinct and feelings. I think this Day 1 discussion of appropriate ways to play is all blah blah blah and I don't really care. Everyone plays their own way. Some like to joke vote, some don't. Some like trains, some don't... yadda yadda. If we all agreed on the same way to play it, then nothing would ever get done on Day 1. So I'm perfectly happy having everyone play it the way they want to play it.

 

That being said, rarely will you find anything substantial or conclusive on Day 1. Occasionally there will be a rare slip or something, but chances are no. Who FoS'd who, who trained when, how and why? It all blends together town and mafia.... therefore it comes back to feelings to me.

 

Therefore Levity and yourself have given me the most weary feelings.

 

You were in a discussion with Red and didn't want to inturrupt that, so I'd thought I'd put my say on Lev.

 

If you want, I can move to you and we can go from there.

 

 

This is what bothers me the most, held off saying anything until I could go back and read... Not once have you mentioned any suspicions about Ley in this game then you vote Ley citing no reason (claiming you didn't want to interrupt an ongoing discussion ). Then meesh calls you on that and asks for some reasoning, and you give the above response all of the sudden finding meesh suspicious as well. Also note you haven't made any FoS's, or any kind of comment hinting at suspicion of meesh, either. But all the sudden she's suspicious, right after she questions you on your non-reasoned vote?

 

Upgrading my FoS to a vote. Unvote. Vote BG.

 

In post update:

 

Okay, if you feel that strongly I'll go and find whatever it was that gave me weird feelings on Lev if that makes you happy.

 

Also I said it was IMPLIED about the pushing hard and badgering comment. . i.e. "I think he did what he had to, to get you to blow up like that" sounds very much to me like "He did what he had to, to make sure his family was safe" in an action movie trailer after some explosion or something. Its the kind of wordplay that implies things, but it may not be intentional, so I just wanted to set the record straight.

 

If you don't even remember off the top of your head what made you put a vote on someone (that wasn't a joke vote) then should you have even put a vote there? This smells like you wanted to sneak a vote in, got called out for having no reasoning, and now are scrambling to make it seem legitimate... only reinforces my decision for voting you.

[mmeeshal]

Back with a hole in my arm, yay for blood work....

 

Boyo has stated much more clearly exactly what I've been getting at. I suck at putting intangible things into words sometimes. XD

[Amadine]

Will add a vote count for you as soon as I get to a computer, too difficult on the phone.