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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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alright this is going to be confusing because i can not remember all of the names fully. SO here is my idea. I remember that there is a boat captian who marries one of the seanchan high blood. He then is treated as one of high blood or so my memory serves. this leads me to believe that mats mariage to fortuna gives him right to the crystal throne and there for say if she were to be captured and removed mat would have the only claim to the throne. and if he were to be emperor rand would bow before the crystal throne willingly for peace.

 

comment ideas? am i totaly wrong let me know.

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Ok, welcome to DM.

 

You really got a lot of things wrong here, actually, pretty much everything. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean, but go to http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/ and you'll c what I mean. The captain name is Doman (sp might be off as I listen to audiobooks). Just read his entry for refresher.

 

As far as Mat, he's the Prince of the Raven and no more.

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Let's see here... You're thinking of Bayle Domon, I do believe, and his "marriage" (Not sure if they get married officially) to Egeanin/Leilwin. IIRC, he was still treated as Da'colvale at the time, not one of the high blood. Plus, I think Egeanin was just of the Blood, not high blood.

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Let's see here... You're thinking of Bayle Domon, I do believe, and his "marriage" (Not sure if they get married officially) to Egeanin/Leilwin. IIRC, he was still treated as Da'colvale at the time, not one of the high blood. Plus, I think Egeanin was just of the Blood, not high blood.

 

All correct though they are married now. biggrin.gif

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Not clear if the consort of the Empress MSLF does have the right to the throne/ stands next in succession but as of now, Mat is the only living member of the royal family. We do know from Tuon's Point of View that she is relieved and a bit surprised that her consort is not plotting against her so there is some basis for your idea. (We also get a hint that her dad may have plotted against Rhadanon).

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I think you may be on to something here. I don't know specifically, but something close. Maybe Rand bowing to the Prince of the Ravens will be considered the same as the Crystal Throne in Tuon's absence? Or something happens to Tuon and, like has been said above, Mat becomes the Crystal Throne by way of marriage. (He is the only royal member now since Tuon's family has been murdered.)

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I very much doubt that Mat has any sort of claim to the Seanchan throne as a result of his marriage. He is the husband of the Empress, but he is not a descendant of Hawkwing. Doubtless there is some distant relative out there with a better claim (in fact, we know of at least one - Berelain. Also, killing every descendant of Hawkwing would likely run into thousands of people dead, all over the continent, and I doubt Semi has the time to commit to such a task, even if she had the desire, which she probably doesn't). And since when has marriage ever given someone a place in a line of succession?

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I very much doubt that Mat has any sort of claim to the Seanchan throne as a result of his marriage. He is the husband of the Empress, but he is not a descendant of Hawkwing. Doubtless there is some distant relative out there with a better claim (in fact, we know of at least one - Berelain. Also, killing every descendant of Hawkwing would likely run into thousands of people dead, all over the continent, and I doubt Semi has the time to commit to such a task, even if she had the desire, which she probably doesn't). And since when has marriage ever given someone a place in a line of succession?

As far as I understood, people are sometimes raised into blood and high blood by their actions. Thus, I'm pretty sure the whole blood of Hawkwing thing is pretty irrelevant, and more of a symbolic thing.
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I very much doubt that Mat has any sort of claim to the Seanchan throne as a result of his marriage. He is the husband of the Empress, but he is not a descendant of Hawkwing. Doubtless there is some distant relative out there with a better claim (in fact, we know of at least one - Berelain. Also, killing every descendant of Hawkwing would likely run into thousands of people dead, all over the continent, and I doubt Semi has the time to commit to such a task, even if she had the desire, which she probably doesn't). And since when has marriage ever given someone a place in a line of succession?

As far as I understood, people are sometimes raised into blood and high blood by their actions. Thus, I'm pretty sure the whole blood of Hawkwing thing is pretty irrelevant, and more of a symbolic thing.
There is a big difference between being a noble and being in the line of succession for the throne. The Blood/High Blood are nobles, but they are not automatically in line for the throne (though doubtless many would be). The Empress (and Emperor, in the days when they had them) has always been a descendant of Hawkwing.
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I would expect now that the royal family has all been killed that if Fortuona died there would be a succession of which Mat could content for the throne. He would have to overcome not being Seanchan for the public to accept him but I expect if he had the numbers, he would win a military succession (if he even wanted to)

 

Also with the bowing to the throne, the only instances we see reference to the prophecy it has been paraphrased. I have a theory that it will be Mat who bows to the throne, not the DR

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Bayle Doman was the Captain of a smuggling ship, he was made So'Jin (spelling) by Egeanin to protect him from some of his opinions and others after Egeanins treason of freeing the sul'dam who had been collared. Later their relationship grew, since Bayle was given a greater status as property of the blood, to which egeanin was raised shortly after capturing Domans ship. Then the treason came out, and the plan to flee so that she could protect Bayle and herself, as well as matt and the AS as well as others, She was stripped of title, as well as position within the blood, which means that Bayle, at the time of marriage, married the equivalent of a peasant.

 

It isn't clear about mat's exact position, though I don't think he's in the succession, especially since Seanchan succession is already muddled, though he might be. There are references in "under the oak" I think it is, where he is called highness, a member of the great blood, and I think there is even a statement that only the empress may take such liberties. But that is likely just pro forma. HOWEVER! there is mention in one of the earlier books where it is mentioned that someone, even without the lineage of the royal blood can be raised to be equal to the royal blood which then puts them in line of succession, or rather their offspring.

 

The Mat question is a sticky one.

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First: Seanchan can not be a joint monarchy, as there is only one Crystal Throne, so only one person sits in it.

Second: We know that Tuon is not going to die, because of Robert Jordan's thoughts about the outrigger novels.

Third: (although some people might argue): Tuon will rule the Seanchan empire, at least for a while, because of Aviendha's future viewings in Rhuidean.

And forth: Despite being Prince of the Ravens, Mat is the last person who would become a King. A general is one thing, a King is completely another. I doubt someone can do a larger mess in Seanchan than the current one, but if there is such a person, this is Mat.

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In support of the notion that real, traceable inheritance from Hawkwing is irrelevant to being in line for the throne, there's also Fortuona's thoughts in the Towers of Midnight that she might have to promote General Galgan to the Imperial Family in order to fill out its ranks now that it's been decimated. Though it's unlikely that such devastation to the Imperial Family has ever occurred prior to Semirhage to break the bloodlines, the fact that commoners can be promoted to the Low Blood, Low Blood can be promoted to High Blood, and even High Blood promoted to being members of the Imperial Family, as well as demotions down to da'covale for all suggests that it's less about how closely related one is to Luthair and more about how closely related to the last sitting Empress/Emperor one is that determines eligibility for the throne.

Edited by Thrasymachus
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