Blademaster Worthiness

[Guest PiotrekS]

OMG.

[Suttree]

(I also like the way you cherry pick your scenes, ignoring that Gawyn says (In The Shadow Rising?) that Galad almost never comes down to the traininggrounds anymore.

 

Could be but I don't recall. Quote?

 

You have it backwards. BS is the God of what is yet to be written, he has very little say over what has already passed, unless what was written was vague.

 

Except for in what has passed RJ said Galad was better, Mat identifies Galad as the more dangerous opponent and Gawyn says flat out how much more talented Galad is.

 

In the real world (Yes, Finess, there is a real world) the winners train and train and train. I know this means nothing to you, because you are enamored of the pretty boy who was so promising but has not risen to Dragon level relevance yet. He's still a periphery player as of this writing, no matter what BS hints, and no matter what insults you throw against those who would dare to disagree with you while you type wearing your Vulcan ears, sitting in your mom's basement while Hot Pockets crumbs collect on your ample midriff.

 

Not sure why you would think Galad wouldn't be training when he is with a military organization such as the Children. Nevertheless they aren't hints...RJ said Galad was better, BS said Galad was better, and Gawyn in text said Galad was better. If there are author quotes to support it then it is word of god. It's so funny, when asked no one can supply concrete reasons as to why Gawyn is actually better. In your above quote you seem to imply increased screen time makes it so which is of course ludicrous.

 

Maybe spend a bit more time actually learning the facts and seeing how things work around here before you blast another poster.

[Kahsm]

But of course Sanderson adds the part about Gawyn was lucky to his quote because he knows Gawyn's position in his rankinh is questionable. Otherwise he wouldn't have felt the need to add a rational ONLY for him. So even you words of god betray you.

 

You do realize you are the single person on this forum that interprets the quote in that way correct? It takes a huge amount of mental gymnastics to try and make that work for you.

 

Well actually... earlier I said "Brandon must agree with me that Gawyn looks bad ass and better than Galad in the text or he wouldn't have felt he needed to explain his answer in that way. "Lucky" suggests quite clearly you SHOULD believe Gawyn is better, when read separately from the word of the author. Nowhere in the book does it state he was only lucky."

 

And Mark Grayson said:

Question: How do the swordsmen rank against each other?

Answer: Lan>Rand (pre-losing hand)>Galad>Gawyn

 

Answers don't really get much more straight forward then that.

 

The rest of your post I pretty much agree with. I understand people thinking Gawyn seems more of a badass based on the descriptions in the book. He's had more opportunities to show off his skills then Galad. It doesn't change the fact that we have a straight forward Word of God that clearly ranks them.

Argue that Brandon shouldn't have made Gawyn look so good in the book if he's not as good as the others if you want. I understand that. But to argue that Gawyn is actually better no matter what the author and the notes say is just silly with a side of arrogance.

 

So that's at least 1 other. Not that numbers matter. Brandon wasn't explaining the ranking, he was explaining why Gawyn was where he was, which means he felt it needed explaining, which means it he feels it's understandable at the very least to believe Gawyn is better by TOM based on the text.

 

Galad has been in just as many battles and skirmishes with the children at this point. If there is a difference in combat seen it's negligible.

 

You'll have to list the battles we know Galad was in that are on par with...

 

1. Battle when the tower split, younglings vs tower guard & warders

2. Battle of Dumai's wells, fighting shaido Aiel

3. Skirmishes against Gareth Bryne, one of the great captains

4. Seanchan when attacking the TW to save Egwene

 

Also, this is proof of nothing, but it certainly works towards my point that the perception in the text is highly suspect at the very least. I noticed the wot wiki entry for Gawyn says the following:

Gawyn eventually surpasses Galad in his skill with the blade.

Obviously the dude who wrote that would agree with me, so that's 2? =)

 

Edit: No I didn't write it, pinky swear.

[Suttree]

So that's at least 1 other. Not that numbers matter. Brandon wasn't explaining the ranking, he was explaining why Gawyn was where he was, which means he felt it needed explaining, which means it he feels it's understandable at the very least to believe Gawyn is better by TOM based on the text.

 

Was referring specifically to your assertion of knowing BS reasoning for saying Gawyn was lucky. You have no idea what he was thinking when he said that, it is mere speculation but you base your whole position around it as if it is fact.

 

Also, this is proof of nothing, but it certainly works towards my point that the perception in the text is highly suspect at the very least. I noticed the wot wiki entry for Gawyn says the following:

Gawyn eventually surpasses Galad in his skill with the blade.

Obviously the dude who wrote that would agree with me, so that's 2? =)

 

Edit: No I didn't write it, pinky swear.

 

We all know how suspect Wot Wiki is, that doesn't help your cause in the slightest. Again not saying there aren't other people thinking Gawyn could be better. Was referring specifically to the lucky comment in BS quote.

[Finnssss22]

You seem to be of the opinion that Galad couldn't of beaten the 3 Bloddknives at once. Well, what makes you think that Gawyn could of beaten Valda? There is no proof or evidence for either conclusion.

 

Glad to see everyone on the "Galad is obviously better" side has fallen so far as to be leaning on the "you can't compare them" argument. Really proves my whole point, which you've clearly missed.

 

I have no opinion one way or the other as to whether Galad could have or not, we have nothing to base that opinion around. We do have evidence that Gawyn can.

 

I never said there was PROOF Gawyn was better. I said there's nothing in the text to suggest Galad is better, and based on the hype around his quarry, and the writing of Gawyn's recent scenes, it appears that he is better. Therefore, obviously all my quotes would and should be from those scenes.

 

Galad carved a path through some dragonsworn rabble. Big freakin' whoop. And in that instance he was comparable only to random shienarians, that's all. I don't remember RJ every writing any scenes to hype up how awesome the Dragonsworn Rabble were, and how elite they were to make slaughtering them by the dozen any great feat.

 

And I don't think Gawyn would throw the fight on purpose. But he would have mentally crippled himself when fighting Galad, think, "he's so much better than me, I cannot win." Then it would simply come true and reaffirm that mental deficit.

 

Like when Rand fights girls, he's obviously disadvantaged by his opinion of killing women.

 

Glad you still like to infer what you want to.

Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better. That is STILL the heart of your argument.

You think Gawyn is better because he beat 3 Bloodknives and won handily vs Sleet yet there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Galad couldn't of done the same but HE DIDN'T. There is also nothing to suggest that Gawyn also could of beat Valda but HE DIDN'T!

 

As far as this so called mental block being the reason Galad is better than Gawyn...ummm...how about Mat's PoV before they fought in tDR.

I guess Mat must also have some kind of mental block too because he could tell right away that Galad was the more dangerous of the two after only observing them for a few minutes.

 

As far as Galad swearing to Perrin...that was being Ta'veren at work. Thought that was really obvious by the way Galad was suddenly light-headed and drained after but I guess not eh.

 

I'm actually surprised you haven't told us all how Gawyn is better than Lan as well. I mean hell, we have rarely ever had any in depth action from any of Lan's fights so how could he possibly be as good as Gawyn. That IS what your logic dictates after all.

 

You amuse me. The things you write are absolutely so abusive and unsupported that I can only conclude you have no life in the real world and have staked out your territory like the fools who identify themselves with the Republicans or the Democrats.

 

Example: You said: "Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better. That is STILL the heart of your argument."

 

The word of God, really? Are you out of your friggin mind? Just because BS says Galad is a better swordsman in his secret twinkie coveting mind doesn't mean he wrote it. Literature is full of examples of authors that meant one thing and wrote another. BS can tweet until he is blue in the face that Galad is the second coming and Moraine is a prizefighter, but until I see it in the published text, you can shove your bad boy attitude. You sound like some geek arguing why the Pegasus is a more powerful battle cruiser than the Enterprise. The facts are that Galad has gotten almost no attention from the author, and to use your juvenile words, PERIOD. Really, get a life with your personal attacks and your silly punctuation, try to act like a man.

 

 

"Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better."

 

Using your logic, even if we saw thousands of scenes of Galad kicking ass, it would be irrelevant to the assertion that Min could drop kick Rand and cut off Lan's head. LOL, you are absolutely insane. You have it backwards. BS is the God of what is yet to be written, he has very little say over what has already passed, unless what was written was vague. Unfortunately, it wasn't vague that Gawyn was talented. Tweeting that he was lucky after the fact doesn't erase the text that's already published, and if that was his intent, then he's a crappy author.

 

What is written is the Word of God in this make believe world, not what is unseen or what is tweeted by Brandon. Sorry, I know you enjoy using self supporting arguments and abusing those who disagree, but you don't have much credibility left. Maybe we should all join hands and believe in fairies? Maybe, behind the scenes of the book we are discussing, Galad beat up a lot of fairies, and you know, it was really heroic or something? Why isn't it in the book?

 

(I also like the way you cherry pick your scenes, ignoring that Gawyn says (In The Shadow Rising?) that Galad almost never comes down to the training grounds anymore. Does that sound like a future ultimate killer to you? Lan certainly doesn't act like that. The book starts with him training and when Moraine "dies" he is constantly training. In the real world (Yes, Finess, there is a real world) the winners train and train and train. I know this means nothing to you, because you are enamored of the pretty boy who was so promising but has not risen to Dragon level relevance yet. He's still a periphery player as of this writing, no matter what BS hints, and no matter what insults you throw against those who would dare to disagree with you while you type wearing your Vulcan ears, sitting in your mom's basement while Hot Pockets crumbs collect on your ample midriff.

 

 

 

Ummm...did you just quote yourself?

Are you seriously accusing me of not knowing what the real world is, attempting to make fun of my punctuation and calling me fat to boot...too funny.

 

For the record, I'm 6' 220lbs, I work in construction, am very much not fat and play and follow a lot of sports in the "real world" heh.

 

As for what little substance your post(s) actually had, not to mention not countering any points worth a damn...It is definitely mentioned that Lan eventually stopped training and sparring with the Warders, just like Galad.

The rest of it is no argument with me, it's all with Brandon. If you choose to take a lot of air time over what the authors have said over and over...that is overwhelmingly your own take and problem, not mine.

 

But yeah, I understand...Taim is Demandred

 

I amuse you...well I'm glad you could return the favour and then some.

[Mats Spare Hat]

Shampoo is better; I go on first and clean the hair! Conditioner is better; I leave the hair silky and smooth! Oh, really, fool?! Really!

 

*points Hey a pelican! *exits whilst heads turned

[trelkor]

i think gawyn is better than jearom cos he has more screen time, and we are never specifically told that gawyn isnt better and everyone in the WOT world has odd perceptions of other people anyway, so even if it was in there it would be irrelevant

[kght22]

You seem to be of the opinion that Galad couldn't of beaten the 3 Bloddknives at once. Well, what makes you think that Gawyn could of beaten Valda? There is no proof or evidence for either conclusion.

 

Glad to see everyone on the "Galad is obviously better" side has fallen so far as to be leaning on the "you can't compare them" argument. Really proves my whole point, which you've clearly missed.

 

I have no opinion one way or the other as to whether Galad could have or not, we have nothing to base that opinion around. We do have evidence that Gawyn can.

 

I never said there was PROOF Gawyn was better. I said there's nothing in the text to suggest Galad is better, and based on the hype around his quarry, and the writing of Gawyn's recent scenes, it appears that he is better. Therefore, obviously all my quotes would and should be from those scenes.

 

Galad carved a path through some dragonsworn rabble. Big freakin' whoop. And in that instance he was comparable only to random shienarians, that's all. I don't remember RJ every writing any scenes to hype up how awesome the Dragonsworn Rabble were, and how elite they were to make slaughtering them by the dozen any great feat.

 

And I don't think Gawyn would throw the fight on purpose. But he would have mentally crippled himself when fighting Galad, think, "he's so much better than me, I cannot win." Then it would simply come true and reaffirm that mental deficit.

 

Like when Rand fights girls, he's obviously disadvantaged by his opinion of killing women.

 

Glad you still like to infer what you want to.

Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better. That is STILL the heart of your argument.

You think Gawyn is better because he beat 3 Bloodknives and won handily vs Sleet yet there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Galad couldn't of done the same but HE DIDN'T. There is also nothing to suggest that Gawyn also could of beat Valda but HE DIDN'T!

 

As far as this so called mental block being the reason Galad is better than Gawyn...ummm...how about Mat's PoV before they fought in tDR.

I guess Mat must also have some kind of mental block too because he could tell right away that Galad was the more dangerous of the two after only observing them for a few minutes.

 

As far as Galad swearing to Perrin...that was being Ta'veren at work. Thought that was really obvious by the way Galad was suddenly light-headed and drained after but I guess not eh.

 

I'm actually surprised you haven't told us all how Gawyn is better than Lan as well. I mean hell, we have rarely ever had any in depth action from any of Lan's fights so how could he possibly be as good as Gawyn. That IS what your logic dictates after all.

 

You amuse me. The things you write are absolutely so abusive and unsupported that I can only conclude you have no life in the real world and have staked out your territory like the fools who identify themselves with the Republicans or the Democrats.

 

Example: You said: "Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better. That is STILL the heart of your argument."

 

The word of God, really? Are you out of your friggin mind? Just because BS says Galad is a better swordsman in his secret twinkie coveting mind doesn't mean he wrote it. Literature is full of examples of authors that meant one thing and wrote another. BS can tweet until he is blue in the face that Galad is the second coming and Moraine is a prizefighter, but until I see it in the published text, you can shove your bad boy attitude. You sound like some geek arguing why the Pegasus is a more powerful battle cruiser than the Enterprise. The facts are that Galad has gotten almost no attention from the author, and to use your juvenile words, PERIOD. Really, get a life with your personal attacks and your silly punctuation, try to act like a man.

 

 

"Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better."

 

Using your logic, even if we saw thousands of scenes of Galad kicking ass, it would be irrelevant to the assertion that Min could drop kick Rand and cut off Lan's head. LOL, you are absolutely insane. You have it backwards. BS is the God of what is yet to be written, he has very little say over what has already passed, unless what was written was vague. Unfortunately, it wasn't vague that Gawyn was talented. Tweeting that he was lucky after the fact doesn't erase the text that's already published, and if that was his intent, then he's a crappy author.

 

What is written is the Word of God in this make believe world, not what is unseen or what is tweeted by Brandon. Sorry, I know you enjoy using self supporting arguments and abusing those who disagree, but you don't have much credibility left. Maybe we should all join hands and believe in fairies? Maybe, behind the scenes of the book we are discussing, Galad beat up a lot of fairies, and you know, it was really heroic or something? Why isn't it in the book?

 

(I also like the way you cherry pick your scenes, ignoring that Gawyn says (In The Shadow Rising?) that Galad almost never comes down to the training grounds anymore. Does that sound like a future ultimate killer to you? Lan certainly doesn't act like that. The book starts with him training and when Moraine "dies" he is constantly training. In the real world (Yes, Finess, there is a real world) the winners train and train and train. I know this means nothing to you, because you are enamored of the pretty boy who was so promising but has not risen to Dragon level relevance yet. He's still a periphery player as of this writing, no matter what BS hints, and no matter what insults you throw against those who would dare to disagree with you while you type wearing your Vulcan ears, sitting in your mom's basement while Hot Pockets crumbs collect on your ample midriff.

lan stopped training or sparring at the white tower years before teotw. lan is only seen training with the two rivers kids after the start of teotw, later with rand only, after that by himself because he scares the crap out of the warders around him. after that with a few ashaman.

and once again in this argument, i do not have a favorite. personally think we just don't have the info to compare them. but get the data right. lan stopped training at the white tower with the other warders before teotw. so sitting back from wt sparring/training does have precedent.

[kght22]

who remembers what sheath the blade is?

 

edit, no change: actualy its sheath the sword, been a while since i read it.

[Mr Ares]

You seem to be of the opinion that Galad couldn't of beaten the 3 Bloddknives at once. Well, what makes you think that Gawyn could of beaten Valda? There is no proof or evidence for either conclusion.

 

Glad to see everyone on the "Galad is obviously better" side has fallen so far as to be leaning on the "you can't compare them" argument. Really proves my whole point, which you've clearly missed.

 

I have no opinion one way or the other as to whether Galad could have or not, we have nothing to base that opinion around. We do have evidence that Gawyn can.

 

I never said there was PROOF Gawyn was better. I said there's nothing in the text to suggest Galad is better, and based on the hype around his quarry, and the writing of Gawyn's recent scenes, it appears that he is better. Therefore, obviously all my quotes would and should be from those scenes.

 

Galad carved a path through some dragonsworn rabble. Big freakin' whoop. And in that instance he was comparable only to random shienarians, that's all. I don't remember RJ every writing any scenes to hype up how awesome the Dragonsworn Rabble were, and how elite they were to make slaughtering them by the dozen any great feat.

 

And I don't think Gawyn would throw the fight on purpose. But he would have mentally crippled himself when fighting Galad, think, "he's so much better than me, I cannot win." Then it would simply come true and reaffirm that mental deficit.

 

Like when Rand fights girls, he's obviously disadvantaged by his opinion of killing women.

 

Glad you still like to infer what you want to.

Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better. That is STILL the heart of your argument.

You think Gawyn is better because he beat 3 Bloodknives and won handily vs Sleet yet there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Galad couldn't of done the same but HE DIDN'T. There is also nothing to suggest that Gawyn also could of beat Valda but HE DIDN'T!

 

As far as this so called mental block being the reason Galad is better than Gawyn...ummm...how about Mat's PoV before they fought in tDR.

I guess Mat must also have some kind of mental block too because he could tell right away that Galad was the more dangerous of the two after only observing them for a few minutes.

 

As far as Galad swearing to Perrin...that was being Ta'veren at work. Thought that was really obvious by the way Galad was suddenly light-headed and drained after but I guess not eh.

 

I'm actually surprised you haven't told us all how Gawyn is better than Lan as well. I mean hell, we have rarely ever had any in depth action from any of Lan's fights so how could he possibly be as good as Gawyn. That IS what your logic dictates after all.

 

You amuse me. The things you write are absolutely so abusive and unsupported that I can only conclude you have no life in the real world and have staked out your territory like the fools who identify themselves with the Republicans or the Democrats.

 

Example: You said: "Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better. That is STILL the heart of your argument."

 

The word of God, really? Are you out of your friggin mind? Just because BS says Galad is a better swordsman in his secret twinkie coveting mind doesn't mean he wrote it. Literature is full of examples of authors that meant one thing and wrote another. BS can tweet until he is blue in the face that Galad is the second coming and Moraine is a prizefighter, but until I see it in the published text, you can shove your bad boy attitude. You sound like some geek arguing why the Pegasus is a more powerful battle cruiser than the Enterprise. The facts are that Galad has gotten almost no attention from the author, and to use your juvenile words, PERIOD. Really, get a life with your personal attacks and your silly punctuation, try to act like a man.

 

 

"Galad is better, that is the word of god, end of story. I am simply asking you how Galad fell below Gawyn and you once again answered exactly the same way...that we saw more of Gawyn, so he must be better."

 

Using your logic, even if we saw thousands of scenes of Galad kicking ass, it would be irrelevant to the assertion that Min could drop kick Rand and cut off Lan's head. LOL, you are absolutely insane. You have it backwards. BS is the God of what is yet to be written, he has very little say over what has already passed, unless what was written was vague. Unfortunately, it wasn't vague that Gawyn was talented. Tweeting that he was lucky after the fact doesn't erase the text that's already published, and if that was his intent, then he's a crappy author.

 

What is written is the Word of God in this make believe world, not what is unseen or what is tweeted by Brandon. Sorry, I know you enjoy using self supporting arguments and abusing those who disagree, but you don't have much credibility left. Maybe we should all join hands and believe in fairies? Maybe, behind the scenes of the book we are discussing, Galad beat up a lot of fairies, and you know, it was really heroic or something? Why isn't it in the book?

 

(I also like the way you cherry pick your scenes, ignoring that Gawyn says (In The Shadow Rising?) that Galad almost never comes down to the training grounds anymore. Does that sound like a future ultimate killer to you? Lan certainly doesn't act like that. The book starts with him training and when Moraine "dies" he is constantly training. In the real world (Yes, Finess, there is a real world) the winners train and train and train. I know this means nothing to you, because you are enamored of the pretty boy who was so promising but has not risen to Dragon level relevance yet. He's still a periphery player as of this writing, no matter what BS hints, and no matter what insults you throw against those who would dare to disagree with you while you type wearing your Vulcan ears, sitting in your mom's basement while Hot Pockets crumbs collect on your ample midriff.

So, are you arguing with yourself now? Anyway, I think most people would actually agree with the logic that "even if we saw thousands of scenes of Galad kicking ass, it would be irrelevant to the assertion that Min could drop kick Rand and cut off Lan's head." Galad proficiency with the sword isn't relevant to Min's ass-kicking abilities. Not unless you are comparing them in some way. We have examples of Gawyn doing well, we4 have examples of Galad doing well. Can we reliably rank their achievements against one another? No. It could be that if Gawyn had faced Valda, he would have died, because Valda was actually the harder opponent than the Bloodknives. So what eveidence in the books indicates Gawyn is better than Galad? Nothing conclusive. It is not clear from the text alone that Gawyn is better than Galad (and the text does say that Galad was the better at one point - what reason do we have to believe that the positions have reversed?). The books and the author are in agreement - Gawyn is a talented swordsman, no-one is denying that, but Galad is better. Weight of evidence suggests that that is the case. What is your basis for asserting that both the books and the authors are wrong?

 

Also, a word of friendly advice: personal attacks (such as those your post is filled with) are against forum rules.

[Kahsm]

So that's at least 1 other. Not that numbers matter. Brandon wasn't explaining the ranking, he was explaining why Gawyn was where he was, which means he felt it needed explaining, which means it he feels it's understandable at the very least to believe Gawyn is better by TOM based on the text.

 

Was referring specifically to your assertion of knowing BS reasoning for saying Gawyn was lucky. You have no idea what he was thinking when he said that, it is mere speculation but you base your whole position around it as if it is fact.

 

That's exactly what Grayson agreed with... "The rest of your post I pretty much agree with." The assertion you claimed not a single other person agreed with was in 'the rest of my post'.

 

And given that you admit now that others likely do think Gawyn is better, you REFUSE to admit Brandon might also think "many" or "enough" think Gawyn is better (based on the text) to require justifying his answer?

 

You're basing your opinion on the fact he didn't mean it that way. You totally ignore why he would add that extra part. Did he just pick a random person off the list to explain for no reason? Obviously not. You're simply ignoring the obvious for your own cause.

 

So basically your assertion is that because it's not said outright it CANNOT possibly be true?

[Elan Tedronai]

the truth of the matter is without the 'word of god' who needs maria's help you the reader will have no qualms based on the series until TOM that gawyn is the better swordsman. Sanderson's words mean nothing. Having read the books a million times gawyn is better than galad based on skills and more importantly accomplishments and also as a leader of men.

 

And it doesn't matter what gawyn thinks of galad. Gawyn would happily step aside if galad said i want egwene instead of berelain. It's an inferiority complex

[Suttree]

You're basing your opinion on the fact he didn't mean it that way. You totally ignore why he would add that extra part. Did he just pick a random person off the list to explain for no reason? Obviously not. You're simply ignoring the obvious for your own cause.

 

So basically your assertion is that because it's not said outright it CANNOT possibly be true?

 

Hope you can see the irony that you of all people would cast assertions of someone "ignoring the obvious for your own cause".

 

As for the rest I make no claims either way, simply saying you don't know for certain his reasoning and yet claim it as fact. Not to mention you are one of the only(I thank you to let myself and others speak for themselves instead of twisting meaning to fit your view) to interpret it in that way. Again you can spin things however you want. It doesn't change the fact that you're view is not supported. You aren't even trying to defend your position anymore, only splitting hairs over possible meaning.

 

As for Mark, the most relevant part of what he said is...

 

But to argue that Gawyn is actually better no matter what the author and the notes say is just silly with a side of arrogance.

[capuga]

Hello everyone. Been awhile since I popped in here and I see that my previous arguments are being used on each side of this debate. So I figured I'd just clarify my point of view:

 

1. Galad is better then Gawyn. There should be absolutely no arguing this fact. We were given the ranking from Brandon. This was given to us post-ToM. I believe this ends the debate.

 

2. Gawyn does some awesome sword fighting in recent books. He gets more screen time and accomplishments then Galad. So I understand the arguments that people think Gawyn appears to be better then Galad at this point. (He's not - see point 1) but I can see why people think the books could give that appearance. That said, I don't agree that the books actually show Gawyn as being better because.....

 

3. We have no direct comparisons between Gawyn and Galad after tDR. They have no common opponents after that time to judge against. Would Galad have beat 3 bloodknives? Don't know. Would Galad have beat Hammar and Coulin during the Tower coup? Don't know. Would Gawyn have beat Valda? Don't know. Would Gawyn have awed the Shenarians with his skills while securing the supergirls a boat? Don't know. We don't have anything that even gives even a hint of answering those questions. What we do know for sure from the text is.....

 

4. Galad was better then Gawyn during their Tower training. This is not just Gawyn's POV thinking Galad's better then him (although I see no reason to believe that he's not giving an honest assessment of his standing against Galad). Besides Gawyn's own thoughts, we have Mat's thoughts that Galad was the better of the two during his duel with them. We have the Aes Sedai thinking Galad is better. And, most importantly, we have objective results of Gawyn saying Galad can win 3 of 5 sparring matches against the teachers while he struggles to win one or two.

 

So we know that Galad is better then Gawyn from Brandon. But even just using what we know from the text all we know for sure is that the only direct comparisons we have between the two show Galad as better then Gawyn. Everything else is just a matter of Gawyn getting more screen time.

[Suttree]

Hello everyone. Been awhile since I popped in here and I see that my previous arguments are being used on each side of this debate. So I figured I'd just clarify my point of view:

 

1. Galad is better then Gawyn. There should be absolutely no arguing this fact. We were given the ranking from Brandon. This was given to us post-ToM. I believe this ends the debate.

 

2. Gawyn does some awesome sword fighting in recent books. He gets more screen time and accomplishments then Galad. So I understand the arguments that people think Gawyn appears to be better then Galad at this point. (He's not - see point 1) but I can see why people think the books could give that appearance. That said, I don't agree that the books actually show Gawyn as being better because.....

 

3. We have no direct comparisons between Gawyn and Galad after tDR. They have no common opponents after that time to judge against. Would Galad have beat 3 bloodknives? Don't know. Would Galad have beat Hammar and Coulin during the Tower coup? Don't know. Would Gawyn have beat Valda? Don't know. Would Gawyn have awed the Shenarians with his skills while securing the supergirls a boat? Don't know. We don't have anything that even gives even a hint of answering those questions. What we do know for sure from the text is.....

 

4. Galad was better then Gawyn during their Tower training. This is not just Gawyn's POV thinking Galad's better then him (although I see no reason to believe that he's not giving an honest assessment of his standing against Galad). Besides Gawyn's own thoughts, we have Mat's thoughts that Galad was the better of the two during his duel with them. We have the Aes Sedai thinking Galad is better. And, most importantly, we have objective results of Gawyn saying Galad can win 3 of 5 sparring matches against the teachers while he struggles to win one or two.

 

So we know that Galad is better then Gawyn from Brandon. But even just using what we know from the text all we know for sure is that the only direct comparisons we have between the two show Galad as better then Gawyn. Everything else is just a matter of Gawyn getting more screen time.

 

Wonder if Galad beating Hammar the majority of the time in training offers a hint for how he would have faired in the Tower coup in Gawyn's place?

 

As for the rest I agree just about completely(especially the bolded). Glad Mark took the time to clear that up so others cant attempt to misconstrue his words.

 

Btw Kael did you totally forget about this?

 

The lucky comment is what makes it ambiguous. Since that obviously means he's referring to Gawyn's showing in specific fights. All of which were pre-bonding.

 

Only for those looking really hard for a way around his very straight forward and unambiguous answer that ranked Gawyn behind the other three.

[Entreri]

Once the gods have spoken, it is blasphemy to refute them. The punishment for such hearsay is DEATH.

[Pandemonium]

Hello everyone. Been awhile since I popped in here and I see that my previous arguments are being used on each side of this debate. So I figured I'd just clarify my point of view:

 

1. Galad is better then Gawyn. There should be absolutely no arguing this fact. We were given the ranking from Brandon. This was given to us post-ToM. I believe this ends the debate.

 

2. Gawyn does some awesome sword fighting in recent books. He gets more screen time and accomplishments then Galad. So I understand the arguments that people think Gawyn appears to be better then Galad at this point. (He's not - see point 1) but I can see why people think the books could give that appearance. That said, I don't agree that the books actually show Gawyn as being better because.....

 

3. We have no direct comparisons between Gawyn and Galad after tDR. They have no common opponents after that time to judge against. Would Galad have beat 3 bloodknives? Don't know. Would Galad have beat Hammar and Coulin during the Tower coup? Don't know. Would Gawyn have beat Valda? Don't know. Would Gawyn have awed the Shenarians with his skills while securing the supergirls a boat? Don't know. We don't have anything that even gives even a hint of answering those questions. What we do know for sure from the text is.....

 

4. Galad was better then Gawyn during their Tower training. This is not just Gawyn's POV thinking Galad's better then him (although I see no reason to believe that he's not giving an honest assessment of his standing against Galad). Besides Gawyn's own thoughts, we have Mat's thoughts that Galad was the better of the two during his duel with them. We have the Aes Sedai thinking Galad is better. And, most importantly, we have objective results of Gawyn saying Galad can win 3 of 5 sparring matches against the teachers while he struggles to win one or two.

 

So we know that Galad is better then Gawyn from Brandon. But even just using what we know from the text all we know for sure is that the only direct comparisons we have between the two show Galad as better then Gawyn. Everything else is just a matter of Gawyn getting more screen time.

 

Wonder if Galad beating Hammar the majority of the time in training offers a hint for how he would have faired in the Tower coup in Gawyn's place?

 

As for the rest I agree just about completely(especially the bolded). Glad Mark took the time to clear that up so others cant attempt to misconstrue his words.

 

Thanks for that bit about Galad beating his teachers in 3/5 matches. I think this also shows how good of a blademaster Valda actually was. Galad clearly wasn't in the same league of physical skill as Valda but he was able to consistently handle other blademasters such as Hammar.

[capuga]

Thanks for that bit about Galad beating his teachers in 3/5 matches. I think this also shows how good of a blademaster Valda actually was. Galad clearly wasn't in the same league of physical skill as Valda but he was able to consistently handle other blademasters such as Hammar.

 

To be fair, that stat was from memory without looking up the actual numbers used. So 3 out of 5 might not be the exact number. But, I know that Gawyn did give an actual objective number of the number of sparring matches that they were each able to win and that Galad was winning more. So the point is still valid but the stat value might be slightly off.

[Luckers]

I'm glad to see that the personal attacks have faded away a bit in this last page. If they return I'll lock the thread. :)

[Suttree]

Thanks for that bit about Galad beating his teachers in 3/5 matches. I think this also shows how good of a blademaster Valda actually was. Galad clearly wasn't in the same league of physical skill as Valda but he was able to consistently handle other blademasters such as Hammar.

 

To be fair, that stat was from memory without looking up the actual numbers used. So 3 out of 5 might not be the exact number. But, I know that Gawyn did give an actual objective number of the number of sparring matches that they were each able to win and that Galad was winning more. So the point is still valid but the stat value might be slightly off.

 

You are correct Mark...

 

TSR Ch. 1

His eyes searched her face as if he had heard some of her deeper meaning. "I... will try," he said finally. He put on a grin, almost the grin she remembered, but the effort was plain. "I suppose I had better get myself back to the practice yard if I expect to keep up with Galad. I managed two out of five against Hammar this morning, but Galad actually won three, the last time he bothered to come to the yard."

 

In tFoH it is also said of him...

 

tFoH Ch. 16

The finest swordsman among those who came to study with the Warders in the Tower, he had also stood high in the classes on strategy and tactics, but Nynaeve could not remember him boasting about his prowess, even in jest. Accomplishments meant nothing to him, perhaps because they came so easily.

 

All in all we have numerous mentions in text from various characters of who the better swordsman is, in addition we have both RJ and BS backing that up. On the opposite side we have a small sliver of readers choosing to interpret fight scenes with zero direct comparison in a way that runs counter to what is plainly stated. Not really a tough choice.

[capuga]

 

You are correct Mark...

 

TSR Ch. 1

His eyes searched her face as if he had heard some of her deeper meaning. "I... will try," he said finally. He put on a grin, almost the grin she remembered, but the effort was plain. "I suppose I had better get myself back to the practice yard if I expect to keep up with Galad. I managed two out of five against Hammar this morning, but Galad actually won three, the last time he bothered to come to the yard."

 

Thank you for the actual quote. Glad to see that my memory isn't too bad.

[Gabriel Kross]

I'm glad to see that the personal attacks have faded away a bit in this last page. If they return I'll lock the thread. :)

 

 

Completely off topic but thank you for this I have been out of this forum for awhile because all threads seem to resort to these methods in the end.

[Kahsm]

I suppose I did. My apologies. Grayson seems to have restated that he understands how it could be seen that Gawyn is better, yet you refuse to consider that Brandon might see the same thing, and that that was the motivation for the explanation?

 

My point is, and continues to be, that Gawyn is shown to be freaking ridiculously good, and that nothing says Galad is better, other than words from ga-ga-eyed admirers and Mr.PersonalSacrifice himself. Yet you continue to refuse to admit that the author could possibly agree, and may have felt the need to rationalize his ranking.

 

Again, did Brandon randomly choose one of the people on the list to justify? Obviously not. There was obviously a reason he felt he needed to add more detail about why Gawyn was where he was. Given the reason about being "Lucky", you can say pretty damn conclusively that he realizes the text suggests (SUGGESTS, does not PROVE) Gawyn is better -- that there's a feel in the reading that Gawyn is better. That feel comes from all the reasons you guys have harped on that don't actually prove Gawyn is better (screen time, bad guy hype, etc.).

 

Also, in the Hammar quote, is he saying Galad won three, period, or is he saying Galad won three of five? I read it as three of five, which is not very far from two of five.

[Suttree]

My point is, and continues to be, that Gawyn is shown to be freaking ridiculously good, and that nothing says Galad is better, other than words from ga-ga-eyed admirers and Mr.PersonalSacrifice himself.

 

and words from the authors themselves which support what multiple characters say in the text. That is where you continue to lose any credibility in your argument. Not to mention you have no answer for the fact that there is zero direct comparison to support Gawyn being able to perform feats that Galad could not.

 

Also, in the Hammar quote, is he saying Galad won three, period, or is he saying Galad won three of five? I read it as three of five, which is not very far from two of five.

 

Yes I believe it is meant that he wins 3 out of 5. Which means Galad beats Hammar the majority of the time while Gawyn does not. It might not seem like much of a difference but adds up rather quickly when taken over a period of time. No matter how many times you try to discredit Gawyn's take on the matter the fact that Galad beats Hammar more often is an objective result that just so happens to support what we are told.

 

Also how is Mat a "ga ga eyed" admirer?

 

Lastly please stop saying I refuse to consider anything. All I have said over and over again is you state BS motivations as fact as if you are somehow privy to them. The majority of people on these boards don't see it that way. You don't know what he meant for certain and as such can't use it to hold up your argument.

[MasterAblar]

Also how is Mat a "ga ga eyed" admirer?

 

What, can't you see the obvious attraction Mat has for him? Galad is ridiculously handsome, he's nearly always serious and pretty much never jokes around, he can only ever do what is right and will never make fun of anyone, and he is a noble! Those are all things that Mat loves!