"Perrin, You have some explaining to do..."

[FarShainMael]

@cuendillar-88!, I'm with LazyMonk on this:

 

Rand would be ecstatic about the final outcome, though perhaps some details might upset him.

1. Perrin doesn't bring back Masema and followers, he does bring an alliance with Ghealdan -- much more useful and impressive.

2. Bringing much useful info on the Seanchan and connections that can be used in future talks, Rand still wants peace with them.

3. Supplying a huge army... much bigger and better disciplined than Masema's collection of freaks.

4. Dealing with the Shaido. That was one of Rand's failings and he was bothered by it.

5. Bringing the Whitecloaks under Rand's command.

 

* Of all of Perrin's decisions, the only one that can and should bother Rand is allowing the Seanchan to capture Wise Ones.

 

I'd say Perrin has brought home the bacon and then some, so Rand Sedai won't have much cause to complain. He might even say, 'Thank the Light Masema's out of the way, he was more likely to be a liability than an asset, even if he was all I thought I could get at the time'.

[XXX]

IIRC there are only three Dreamwalkers among the Wise Ones and none of them was with Perrin.

 

Of course, Perrin and Rand should've kept contact using Travelling, and the fact that Perrin didn't even consider asking Rand for help dealing with the Shaido makes no sense to me.

 

Dark Rand would not have helped..just like he refused to help Lan.

[David Selig]

^That's debatable, the situation was quite different, and back when Faile was captured, Rand was much less dark than in TGS, but my point is Perrin didn't know that and didn't even consider the option of asking Rand for help, even though it made a hell of a lot more sense at the time than dealing with the Seanchan.

[Suttree]

^That's debatable, the situation was quite different, and back when Faile was captured, Rand was much less dark than in TGS, but my point is Perrin didn't know that and didn't even consider the option of asking Rand for help, even though it made a hell of a lot more sense at the time than dealing with the Seanchan.

 

+1 Rand when Faile was captured and in TGS might as well have been two different people. Good point in terms of what Perrin knew as well.

[Lisa Campbell]

^That's debatable, the situation was quite different, and back when Faile was captured, Rand was much less dark than in TGS, but my point is Perrin didn't know that and didn't even consider the option of asking Rand for help, even though it made a hell of a lot more sense at the time than dealing with the Seanchan.

 

+1 Rand when Faile was captured and in TGS might as well have been two different people. Good point in terms of what Perrin knew as well.

 

Something to think about... There was also the ruse that Perrin was dis-associated from Rand and that his mission was supposed to be secret.

 

Posted Today, 01:43 AM

 

IIRC there are only three Dreamwalkers among the Wise Ones and none of them was with Perrin.

 

Of course, Perrin and Rand should've kept contact using Travelling, and the fact that Perrin didn't even consider asking Rand for help dealing with the Shaido makes no sense to me.

 

It was shown after Rhuidean that those Dreamwalkers could contact Wise Ones from other Clans through their dreams. Much like Egwene does when telling Elayne or Nynaeve to meet her in TAR.

[aunt_pol]

Don't forget the bonus Perrin is bringing with him - the rediscovery of how to make Power-wrought weapons. Not insignificant, given what's to come.

 

Masema neutralised - check. Shaido scattered with their tails between their legs - check. Whitecloaks freshly blooded against Trollocs and under proper management - check.

Rand's a d***head if he does anything other than hug Perrin. The WO damane are the only issue I can see, but Rand hasn't exactly done a whole lot about that whole area himself. I think he'll be delighted with the Tylee assoc and with any pull Mat might be able to exert on Fortuona. The boys have done good. If, of course, Mat gets back in time to save some of Caemlyn.

[Mandro]

Don't forget the bonus Perrin is bringing with him - the rediscovery of how to make Power-wrought weapons. Not insignificant, given what's to come.

 

Masema neutralised - check. Shaido scattered with their tails between their legs - check. Whitecloaks freshly blooded against Trollocs and under proper management - check.

Rand's a d***head if he does anything other than hug Perrin. The WO damane are the only issue I can see, but Rand hasn't exactly done a whole lot about that whole area himself. I think he'll be delighted with the Tylee assoc and with any pull Mat might be able to exert on Fortuona. The boys have done good. If, of course, Mat gets back in time to save some of Caemlyn.

 

The nature of Mjolinir might have been a rare occurance. PowerWrought weapons? Okay, but Mjolinir is spesial, based on the level of effort and exhaustion involved, It almost read as though Perrin himself was linked to niald, like niald really only knew what to do because perrin was reaching out to him, and to the hammer.

[Sid]

For not asking Rand for help with the Shaido, Perrin wasn't supposed to contact Rand at all. It was part of their plan, which included the mock fight they had in public back in ACOS. They were supposed to look like they disagreed so much that they were at each other's throats, and Perrin thinks of this briefly at some point in either ACoS or TPoD, so he couldn't send his people to check in.

 

Someone else could probably explain it better, since my memories of the actual details are sketchy.

[Kahsm]

No one in Perrins army liked the idea of the Shaido WO's going to the Seanchan, but that was the price for their help in getting Faile back, and they never had a cat in hells chance of getting her back otherwise. It was to their minds the lesser of two evils.

 

Sacrificing women to become Demane for one guy's wife... At the risk of opening a kettle of worms, I'm more interested in how Egwene would react to that "sacrifice".

 

^That's debatable, the situation was quite different, and back when Faile was captured, Rand was much less dark than in TGS, but my point is Perrin didn't know that and didn't even consider the option of asking Rand for help, even though it made a hell of a lot more sense at the time than dealing with the Seanchan.

 

+1 Rand when Faile was captured and in TGS might as well have been two different people. Good point in terms of what Perrin knew as well.

 

While I don't disagree, and I think someone brings up the communication split later on, lets not forget that Rand didn't do much to help the Two Rivers when it was in trouble, and basically managed to send a single Aiel from his massive army to help with that... so I'd guess Faile would be even further down Rand's list of priorities.

[dwn]

No one in Perrins army liked the idea of the Shaido WO's going to the Seanchan, but that was the price for their help in getting Faile back, and they never had a cat in hells chance of getting her back otherwise. It was to their minds the lesser of two evils.

 

Sacrificing women to become Demane for one guy's wife... At the risk of opening a kettle of worms, I'm more interested in how Egwene would react to that "sacrifice".

 

Part of Perrin's mission in Ghealdan was to mop up (or smack down) the marauders claiming to be Dragonsworn and bring the country to Rand's banner. Sure, rescuing Faile was at the forefront, but taking down the remnants of the Shaido was certainly in line with that mandate. The only other real option for dealing with the Shaido would have resulted in a huge OP battle with many, many casualties. Nobody likes the idea of damane, but in this case it was probably the least terrible outcome.

 

-- dwn

[Ala Rubra]

While I don't disagree, and I think someone brings up the communication split later on, lets not forget that Rand didn't do much to help the Two Rivers when it was in trouble, and basically managed to send a single Aiel from his massive army to help with that... so I'd guess Faile would be even further down Rand's list of priorities.

 

That's a little unfair. Rand could not make any Aiel go, so the fact that even three decided to do so is a credit to him. As for not going himself, I think his decision was the correct one. In any case, whatever Rand may feel for the Two Rivers has nothing at all to do with Faile.

 

Anyway, Rand wouldn't even need to care about Faile at all to justify sending support to help hunt down the rest of the Shaido. It's not like the bulk of the Aiel were doing anything during this point in time, nor were the Asha'man.

[Kahsm]

While I don't disagree, and I think someone brings up the communication split later on, lets not forget that Rand didn't do much to help the Two Rivers when it was in trouble, and basically managed to send a single Aiel from his massive army to help with that... so I'd guess Faile would be even further down Rand's list of priorities.

 

That's a little unfair. Rand could not make any Aiel go, so the fact that even three decided to do so is a credit to him. As for not going himself, I think his decision was the correct one. In any case, whatever Rand may feel for the Two Rivers has nothing at all to do with Faile.

 

Anyway, Rand wouldn't even need to care about Faile at all to justify sending support to help hunt down the rest of the Shaido. It's not like the bulk of the Aiel were doing anything during this point in time, nor were the Asha'man.

 

I understand why, though I don't think he tried very hard, and I think it was difficult for him NOT to try very hard, but I think the same reasons would have applied to Faile, with even less difficulty to decide against her.

[David Selig]

For not asking Rand for help with the Shaido, Perrin wasn't supposed to contact Rand at all. It was part of their plan, which included the mock fight they had in public back in ACOS. They were supposed to look like they disagreed so much that they were at each other's throats, and Perrin thinks of this briefly at some point in either ACoS or TPoD, so he couldn't send his people to check in.

 

Someone else could probably explain it better, since my memories of the actual details are sketchy.

Given that Perrin was beyond obsessed with saving Faile at all costs, keeping up this pointless charade, which I doubt many people bought anyway, shouldn't have prevented him from trying to get help from Rand. Especially given that Rand already wanted to deal with the Shaido.

[Muad Cheade]

For not asking Rand for help with the Shaido, Perrin wasn't supposed to contact Rand at all. It was part of their plan, which included the mock fight they had in public back in ACOS. They were supposed to look like they disagreed so much that they were at each other's throats, and Perrin thinks of this briefly at some point in either ACoS or TPoD, so he couldn't send his people to check in.

 

Someone else could probably explain it better, since my memories of the actual details are sketchy.

Given that Perrin was beyond obsessed with saving Faile at all costs, keeping up this pointless charade, which I doubt many people bought anyway, shouldn't have prevented him from trying to get help from Rand. Especially given that Rand already wanted to deal with the Shaido.

It fooled the all of the servants, Loial, Kalrdin and presumably the nobles. Did Rand want to deal with the Shaido? After the Second Battle of Cairhien, he didn't make them a priority until after he took the crown of Illian and sent the lords loyal to him out to hunt them (technically Sammael played a part though).

 

If anything, Perrin went above and beyond what was asked of him.

[GYLD]

Whether Rand would have aided or not, it still seems highly unlikely Perrin wouldn't so much as try. Towards the end he was telling himself he'd let the world burn, or something to that effect, if it meant Faile being returned to him. Breaking Rand's cover story though, that is what Perrin can't bring himself to do? I can't quite buy that.

[Beer Rot]

Don't forget the bonus Perrin is bringing with him - the rediscovery of how to make Power-wrought weapons. Not insignificant, given what's to come.

 

Masema neutralised - check. Shaido scattered with their tails between their legs - check. Whitecloaks freshly blooded against Trollocs and under proper management - check.

Rand's a d***head if he does anything other than hug Perrin. The WO damane are the only issue I can see, but Rand hasn't exactly done a whole lot about that whole area himself. I think he'll be delighted with the Tylee assoc and with any pull Mat might be able to exert on Fortuona. The boys have done good. If, of course, Mat gets back in time to save some of Caemlyn.

 

The nature of Mjolinir might have been a rare occurance. PowerWrought weapons? Okay, but Mjolinir is spesial, based on the level of effort and exhaustion involved, It almost read as though Perrin himself was linked to niald, like niald really only knew what to do because perrin was reaching out to him, and to the hammer.

 

 

I'm still in the early books on my re-read, but I could've sworn after Mjollnir was made there was talk about making other weapons with the OP, starting with spears for the aiel?

[FarShainMael]

Berelain mentions Perrin's army having Power-wrought weapons, and Faile wonders if there is time to make enough.

[Mandro]

Don't forget the bonus Perrin is bringing with him - the rediscovery of how to make Power-wrought weapons. Not insignificant, given what's to come.

 

Masema neutralised - check. Shaido scattered with their tails between their legs - check. Whitecloaks freshly blooded against Trollocs and under proper management - check.

Rand's a d***head if he does anything other than hug Perrin. The WO damane are the only issue I can see, but Rand hasn't exactly done a whole lot about that whole area himself. I think he'll be delighted with the Tylee assoc and with any pull Mat might be able to exert on Fortuona. The boys have done good. If, of course, Mat gets back in time to save some of Caemlyn.

 

The nature of Mjolinir might have been a rare occurance. PowerWrought weapons? Okay, but Mjolinir is spesial, based on the level of effort and exhaustion involved, It almost read as though Perrin himself was linked to niald, like niald really only knew what to do because perrin was reaching out to him, and to the hammer.

 

There are other power wrought weapons, particularly spear blades for the Aiel, but Mjolinir was special. I think that power wrought weapons could have been made at any time if the will were present, but what happened with the hammer was something special. Like some of the conjecture about "Justice."

I'm still in the early books on my re-read, but I could've sworn after Mjollnir was made there was talk about making other weapons with the OP, starting with spears for the aiel?

 

There are other power wrought weapons, particularly spear blades for the Aiel, but Mjolinir was special. I think that power wrought weapons could have been made at any time if the will were present, but what happened with the hammer was something special. Like some of the conjecture about "Justice."

 

[edited because I missed tags.]

[Kaznen]

I think the only arguing between Rand and Perrin will be whether or not Rand needs to apologize to Perrin.

 

I think I will be something along the lines of Rand showing up at Perrin's camp begging for forgiveness for being such a douche bag of a friend.

 

Perrin, because he is a good friend, will say there is nothing to apoligize for, because Perrin really doesn't think there is.

 

And the argument will be Rand listing the ways he wronged Perrin and Perrin saying he was never wronged.

 

Remember how when Mat and Perrin think about Rand they aren't wondering what he will think of there actions, they're worried about what happened to his hand, and not in the "wonder how that happened" way Egwene was but more of "Oh, no, somebody hurt my friend, if they're not dead they soon will be" kind of way.

[Suttree]

Remember how when Mat and Perrin think about Rand they aren't wondering what he will think of there actions, they're worried about what happened to his hand, and not in the "wonder how that happened" way Egwene was but more of "Oh, no, somebody hurt my friend, if they're not dead they soon will be" kind of way.

 

Could you provide the quotes? I don't recall either of their reactions as being like that. Would like to check it out...

[Kaznen]

I don't have the quotes handy but when they get their ta'veren flashes and see him without his hand they are more worried about it then anyone else. Most others see his lack hand as a curiosity but Mat and Perrin are truly concerned.

 

My point was they are all such good friends the three are care more about the other two's personal well being then how they are changing the world.

 

I think Rand and Perrin are going to freak out over Mat's missing eye. And not in a "why did he lose his eye" kind of way but a "oh, God, my friend is hurt" way.

[MasterAblar]

Remember how when Mat and Perrin think about Rand they aren't wondering what he will think of there actions, they're worried about what happened to his hand, and not in the "wonder how that happened" way Egwene was but more of "Oh, no, somebody hurt my friend, if they're not dead they soon will be" kind of way.

 

Could you provide the quotes? I don't recall either of their reactions as being like that. Would like to check it out...

 

I found this for Perrin, from Embers and Ash in tGS:

 

"Maybe you're right," Perrin mumbled sleepily. "Blasted colors.... I don't want to watch you sleeping, Rand. What happened to your hand? Light-blinded fool, take better care of yourself.... You're all we have.... Last Hunt coming...."

 

I guess there's some concern there. In Perrin's defence, he was half asleep.

[Nicook5]

I think the only arguing between Rand and Perrin will be whether or not Rand needs to apologize to Perrin.

 

I think I will be something along the lines of Rand showing up at Perrin's camp begging for forgiveness for being such a douche bag of a friend.

 

Perrin, because he is a good friend, will say there is nothing to apoligize for, because Perrin really doesn't think there is.

 

And the argument will be Rand listing the ways he wronged Perrin and Perrin saying he was never wronged.

 

Remember how when Mat and Perrin think about Rand they aren't wondering what he will think of there actions, they're worried about what happened to his hand, and not in the "wonder how that happened" way Egwene was but more of "Oh, no, somebody hurt my friend, if they're not dead they soon will be" kind of way.

wait wait wait. What does he need to apologize for?

[MasterAblar]

I think the only arguing between Rand and Perrin will be whether or not Rand needs to apologize to Perrin.

 

I think I will be something along the lines of Rand showing up at Perrin's camp begging for forgiveness for being such a douche bag of a friend.

 

Perrin, because he is a good friend, will say there is nothing to apoligize for, because Perrin really doesn't think there is.

 

And the argument will be Rand listing the ways he wronged Perrin and Perrin saying he was never wronged.

 

Remember how when Mat and Perrin think about Rand they aren't wondering what he will think of there actions, they're worried about what happened to his hand, and not in the "wonder how that happened" way Egwene was but more of "Oh, no, somebody hurt my friend, if they're not dead they soon will be" kind of way.

wait wait wait. What does he need to apologize for?

 

Probably for throwing him against a pillar in aCoS during their faked dispute (Perrin brought up the Aes Sedai. It was a bad idea). And he'll probably feel that he left Perrin in the middle of nowhere and didn't bother checking up on him.

[Nicook5]

I think the only arguing between Rand and Perrin will be whether or not Rand needs to apologize to Perrin.

 

I think I will be something along the lines of Rand showing up at Perrin's camp begging for forgiveness for being such a douche bag of a friend.

 

Perrin, because he is a good friend, will say there is nothing to apoligize for, because Perrin really doesn't think there is.

 

And the argument will be Rand listing the ways he wronged Perrin and Perrin saying he was never wronged.

 

Remember how when Mat and Perrin think about Rand they aren't wondering what he will think of there actions, they're worried about what happened to his hand, and not in the "wonder how that happened" way Egwene was but more of "Oh, no, somebody hurt my friend, if they're not dead they soon will be" kind of way.

wait wait wait. What does he need to apologize for?

 

Probably for throwing him against a pillar in aCoS during their faked dispute (Perrin brought up the Aes Sedai. It was a bad idea). And he'll probably feel that he left Perrin in the middle of nowhere and didn't bother checking up on him.

eh I guess, Rand does seem to like apologizing lately.