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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

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  1. RE mb's post Mat's Band were the most proficient with Dragons, unquestionably. But if a Dreadlord with uncommon initiative for a Darkfriend had managed to seize some or all of the Dragons with the accompanying supplies of powder and ammo that could have spelled trouble for the Light. The Dreadlord didn't even have to attempt use the captured Dragons. He could simply order Darkfriends or captured Andorans supervised by Fades to haul them thru a Gateway to an obscure location in the Blight, thus denying the Band the use of their secret weapon. My question is, after capturing the Waygate cellar, why didn't the Dreadlords and Fades march their Trollocs straight to the warehouse and overwhelm whatever security Aludra had set up? It defies logic that the Commander of the Dark Army invading Caemlyn was completely unaware of the existence of the Dragons, not after it was demonstrated he had key insiders in the Palace and Queen's Guard that were used to massacre the existing cellar guard before they became suspicious. The "inside" Palace Darkfriends were also knowledgeable enough to know about Elayne's message relays and managed to kill the minimum number of Kinswoman to prevent courier Gateways from being opened. The weapon was also tested very publicly, it denies belief that some Darkfriend didn't report it by carrier pigeon or directly to a Myrddraal that could have infiltrated Caemlyn at night thru a dark alley or shadowed cubbyhole. To find out the location of the warehouse the inside Darkfriends would only need to kidnap and torture a bellfounder or simply observe and follow all wagons exiting the foundries.
  2. I'm aware this thread has been done before but I just wanted to add my two coppers. The Forces of Darkness (FOD) did have their coup d'état moments during Tarmon Gai'don, such as subverting the Great Captains via compulsion and by gaining complete strategic surprise attacking/over-running Kandor in short order. In Caemlyn, the Dreadlords established a Waygate-head in a single stroke; negating the security precautions by having well placed Darkfriends in the Queen's Guard and Palace. They also simultaneously assassinated enough channeling Kinswoman to prevent an SOS message to Elayne that would have alerted her in a timely manner. The Dreadlords and Trollocs had Caemlyn at their mercy and what did they do to consolidate their hold on the city? Logic should have dictated mopping up the defenders outside the Palace stronghold and immediately seizing the warehouse storing the Dragons; but the Dreadlords and Myrddraal allowed the Trollocs to give into their pyromaniac and vandalistic tendencies. The subsequent result was that an organized surprise attack descended into chaos. I do not buy the excuse that FOD S-2 / High Command were unaware of the Dragons, there were way to many Darkfriend spys in the Palace and the Dragon concept was tested publicly. It should have been very easy for the spys to figure out the location of the warehouse. Once the FOD CINC-Caemlyn became aware of the Dragons he should have made their capture a priority rather then attacking the walled Palace and allowing the Trollocs to continue to burn and pillage. To say this was a monumental screw-up is the understatement of the Third Age, those Dragons bled FOD heavily during Elayne's retreat from Caemlyn and later played a critical part at the closing moments of the Last Battle. If the Dreadlords and Fades had managed to capture the Dragons and man them with hastily trained Darkfriend crews; it might have turned the battle just by the blow to Forces of Light (FOL) morale. Imagine if you're a foot soldier or pike man and you suddenly find out that the Super Duper Wonder Weapons that your officers have hinted at have been co-opted and are now pointed at you from across the battlefield. Wouldn't you hastily rethink the prospect of dying gloriously at Tarmon Gai'don as long as the Light was victorious?
  3. Birgitte: An attractive blonde with a sense of humor and feisty attitude, I give her kudos for not being intimidated by Elayne's royal status and her willingness to verbally rebuke the Andoran Queen when necessary. She is a nerd / geek's dream, a beautiful woman who is attracted to homely and scarred men. I also give her extra credit for not using her feminine charm to manipulate a man, at least not in any scene that I can recall. Setalle Anan: a mature attractive woman, Mat has to constantly remind himself not to stare at her. Intelligent and intensely loyal to those she likes, I still laugh at the scene in her Inn when she confronts Elayne and Nynaeve, mistaking them for scheming trollops.
  4. Mat and Fortuona definitely; not just the Re-consolidation of Seanchan but a story that develops the theme of Mat struggling to be the "responsible" father and family man. Just think about the situation, do you realistically expect that Tuon is going to want to stop with just one child? She is going to do her best to convince Mat that for the good of the Empire she needs multiple sons and daughters. When he balks at this prospect she will remind him of Imperial Family tradition and the necessity of sibling rivalries that will help her manipulate and select the strongest heir. I can imagine a desperate Mat starting to get chronic migraines at bedtime until Tuon threatens to send for that "rude" marath'damane Nynaeve. Even better, the story could portray a hilarious scene where Mat is trying to convince a hysterical Nynaeve that she needs to prescribe regular doses of heartleaf tea for the Empress. I think this plot would be as entertaining as the military campaign because it would be a contest of wills between Mat and Tuon on how their children are raised. I can see Mat putting his foot down about encouraging cut throat competition between his kids. I'm sure Min and Selucia will have plenty advice for Mat and will probably end up being "Aunts" for the Royal children. Something tells me that Fortuona would get her wish for more children but will be shocked when they all have Mat's personality. Yes, when the Royal children grow up, they end up caring less about acquiring power and more about having fun. When an epidemic of pranks breaks out in the Imperial Court, [How could someone attach a "Kick Me" sign to Karede's back or write graffiti on Selucia's private collection of knives?] Tuon publicly blames the The Prince of Ravens for imperiling the Royal Succession. Fortunately, Mat would divert her attention by laughing at the situation while pointing out their kid's potential for originality and imagination, not to mention sneakiness...
  5. Originally? They come from a "parallel world" much like "Sindhol" the Snakes and Foxes realm. That is different from a "mirror world" which is what Rand visits by portal stone. Is this also true for the Nym or are they "constructs"?
  6. [Note: most of this post was lifted from another topic thread but I felt it would be as applicable on this thread] I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get more reaction POV's from different characters upon learning of Mat's elevation to overall Battle Commander, FOL (Forces of Light). I know Uno initially expressed skepticism until Polov Heights was shellacked by Demandred while Elayne kind of sighs and hopes that the Creator is indeed protecting them despite Mat's very unconventional leadership style. It would have been amusing to have read reactions from characters that had less than favorable interactions with Mat. Just imagine the following hypothetical dialogue: Urien (of the Two Spires sept, Reyn Aiel): Matrim Cauthon, an excellent battle leader for a wetlander; better than their Great Captains. Do not try to dice with him however; I lost most of my share from the Stone of Tear gambling against him. He is totally clueless about the Maidens of the Spear though, who would be dumb enough to ask them to play Maiden's Kiss? Saal (from The Woman of Tanchico, Tar Valon): Matrim Cauthon, that was his name? He's the top general now! He tried to eat everything in our larder during his single visit and then he left with our drunken, semi-resident Gleeman. Mada: (grins at sister) you should have complimented him more on his eyes and he might have stayed... Basel Gill: I remember the rascal; first visit to the Queen's Blessing he was paranoid, the next he was talking about taking on the most powerful man in Caemlyn. He left me a purse with ten crowns, am I supposed to return it? Mother Guenna (Wise Woman, Tear): A bold and reckless young man, blasted his way into the Stone and rescued his friends; despite Aiel, Defenders, Black Ajah and Forsaken. I reckon directing Tarmon Gai'don will be just the thing to keep him out of trouble; he should have married a good Tairen girl from the Maule though... Valan Luca: Mat Cauthon? Don’t get me started, in the space of a month that young upstart almost single handedly destroyed my show, which is called Valan Luca’s Grand Traveling Show and Magnificent Display of Marvels and Wonders. That’s the abbreviated name mind you; I couldn’t find poles that were both tall and stout enough while still being transportable to display the full name of my humble creation. Did I mention that my most excellent menagerie is coming to a village, town, or city near you? Well, as soon as this Tarmon Gai’don business is finished, that is. Since you’re interviewing me about what’s his name, I’m sure you don’t mind me throwing you an exclusive: I have just concluded an agreement with the Seanchan to display their exotic animals. Just think; a person, for a few marks, can safely view creatures that formerly terrorized the Light out of the good citizens Tarabon, Amadicia, and Altara. (Latelle elbows Valan in his short ribs and Valan finally remembers the original subject of conversation), Cauthon as Battle Commander for the Last Battle! I’d say the world is in for a wild ride before the final salvation. That rogue put us through more adventures and intrigue then a story book hero experiences in a lifetime. Joline Sedai: Matrim Cauthon, No, it doesn't surprise me that he was chosen Supreme Commander for the Last Battle. He helped me and two other Aes Sedai escape Ebou Dar after the Seanchan invaded. Against all odds, he managed to dodge Seanchan patrols, Darkfriends, Bubbles of Evil, and a village of nocturnal homicidal maniacs that resurrected daily. I tried to convince him that it was in his best interest to allow me to bond him as a Warder but he stubbornly refused. Bode Cauthon: If one more Novice asks me if the famous "Lord" Cauthon is really my brother (makes choking motion with her hands), she'll regret ever coming to the White Tower! Abel Cauthon: That's my boy! I always knew he had more to offer besides that idiotic grin... Natti Cauthon: (smirks at husband and then has an uncontrollable fit of laughter) Neysa Ayellin: Mat Cauthon, the top general, eh! Why he and I were an item once, nobody else in Emond’s Field noticed because they were too busy gossiping about Rand and Egwene. Egwene, Egwene, Egwene; she’s the girl in Emond’s Field who got all the attention. Do you know how frustrating it is to be the 2nd prettiest girl in the village? The only time I was noticed was when Egwene stayed inside the inn for a week waiting for her nose to heal after Mat accidentally hit her in the face with a wool ball (smirks). Mat and I were practically a couple; we would have been married by now if he hadn’t suddenly left the village. I was the only girl who could hold his attention without him resorting to the silly antics for which he was known. Now he’s married some foreign princess and is commanding the armies of the Light and all I have is a memory of him telling me how pretty I was, sigh… Cenn Buie: Battle Commander over all forces of the Light? May the Creator have mercy and protect us! Have all the Monarchs and Bran's daughter completely lost their minds? Why that young scoundrel once set fire to my whole supply of thatch that I had drying for the winter and then had the nerve to blame it on my cow knocking over the lantern... Wit Congar: Oh! that's barely a trifle compared to the time Matrim snuck into my sheep yard and put bright purple dye into the dipping trough. I didn't notice it until my entire flock had been dipped. It was a disaster I tell you, my sheep actually glowed in the moonlight! It was so bad that it would have caused even a Tinker to break down and cry! Upon hearing Cenn and Wit talking, many nearby Emond's Fielders begin to recite their favorite Mat Cauthon pranks. They were still reminiscing several hours later when Tam al'Thor noticed the large gathering that included almost everyone in Emond's Field. Tam al'Thor: Break this up and go back to work! There'll be plenty more humorous Mat Cauthon stories in the Fourth Age...
  7. I realize that there simply wasn't space in AMOL to have every warm hearted, feel good closure scene between characters but I was really hoping that Mat and Nynaeve got a closing scene together. It would have been nice to have Nynaeve tell Mat how proud she was of him and that he was there when everyone needed him the most. The potential for having two relatively at odds characters reconcile would have made an excellent follow-up to Nyn's loyal defense of him when she first met Tuon. Of course, Mat would've probably spoiled the tender moment by trivializing his role or apologizing for making her tenure as village Wisdom more of an ordeal than necessary.
  8. Definitely Nynaeve at SG, post-battle, watching "Rand" die and feeling entirely helpless. Then informing Perrin of Egwene's death and having her experience the heart wrenching misgiving that she wasn't there for her friend...
  9. haha you beat me to it. the other moments documented here are great and all but this moment one was the funniest to me. Egwene and Tuon hate each other and their meeting was so....cordial. Then Mat shows up and Egwene has a hearty laugh. I believe she said "You married Matrim Cauthon?". LOL, I was thinking, what's wrong with that?!? Then ofc her belief that Mat was in over his head was lol. You could swear they were back in the Two Rivers. It was cordial up until Egwene dared to touch the person of the Empress and Fortuona responded with a lightning grab which caused Egwene to embrace Saidar... LOL, I thought we were going to see the ultimate Wheel of Time Cat Fight until Mat intervened. Also note that when Egwene noticed how possessive Fortuona was she made sure she tweaked the nose of the Empress by telling her she wasn't interested in Mat...for now.
  10. I'm a little disappointed that we didn't get more reaction POV's from different characters upon learning of Mat's elevation to overall Battle Commander, FOL (Forces of Light). I know Uno initially expressed skepticism until Polov Heights was shellacked by Demandred while Elayne kind of sighs and hopes that the Creator is indeed protecting them despite Mat's very unconventional leadership style. It would have been amusing to have read reactions from characters that had less than favorable interactions with Mat. Just imagine the following hypothetical dialogue: Urien (of the Two Spires sept, Reyn Aiel): Matrim Cauthon, an excellent battle leader for a wetlander; better than their Great Captains. Do not try to dice with him however; I lost most of my share from the Stone of Tear gambling against him. He is totally clueless about the Maidens of Spear though, who would be dumb enough to ask them to play Maiden's Kiss? Saal (from The Woman of Tanchico, Tar Valon): Matrim Cauthon, that was his name? He's the top general now! He tried to eat everything in our larder during his single visit and then he left with our drunken, semi-resident Gleeman. Mada: (grins at sister) you should have complimented him more on his eyes and he might have stayed... Basel Gill: I remember the rascal; first visit to the Queen's Blessing he was paranoid, the next he was talking about taking on the most powerful man in Caemlyn. He left me a purse with ten crowns am I supposed to return it? Mother Guenna (Wise Woman, Tear): A bold and reckless young man, blasted his way into the Stone and rescued his friends; despite Aiel, Defenders, Black Ajah and Forsaken. I reckon directing Tarmon Gai'don will be just the thing to keep him out of trouble; he should have married a good Tairen girl from the Maule though... Joline Sedai: Matrim Cauthon, No, it doesn't surprise me that he was chosen Supreme Commander for the Last Battle. He helped me and two other Aes Sedai escape Ebou Dar after the Seanchan invaded. Against all odds, he managed to dodge Seanchan patrols, Darkfriends, Bubbles of Evil, and a village of nocturnal homicidal maniacs that resurrected daily. I tried to convince him that it was in his best interest to allow me to bond him as a Warder but he stubbornly refused. Bode Cauthon: If one more Novice asks me if the famous "Lord" Cauthon is really my brother (makes choking motion with her hands), she'll regret ever coming to the White Tower! Abel Cauthon: That's my boy! I always knew he had more to offer besides that idiotic grin... Natti Cauthon: (smirks at husband and then has an uncontrollable fit of laughter) Cenn Buie: Battle Commander over all forces of the Light? May the Creator have mercy and protect us! Have all the Monarchs and Bran's daughter completely lost their minds? Why that young scoundrel once set fire to my whole supply of thatch that I had drying for the winter and then had the nerve to blame it on my cow knocking over the lantern... Wit Congar: Oh! that's barely a trifle compared to the time Matrim snuck into my sheep yard and put bright purple dye into the dipping trough. I didn't notice it until my entire flock had been dipped. It was a disaster I tell you, my sheep actually glowed in the moonlight! It was so bad that it would have caused even a Tinker to break down and cry! Upon hearing Cenn and Wit talking, many nearby Emond's Fielders recited their favorite Mat Cauthon pranks. They were still reminiscing several hours later when Tam al'Thor noticed the large gathering that included almost everyone in Emond's Field. Tam al'Thor: Break this up and go back to work! There'll be plenty more humorous Mat Cauthon stories in the Fourth Age...
  11. When Egwene met Fortuona the 1st time at the border of Kandor and discovered Mat's situation; She treats Mat exactly the way he treated her at Salidar, how ironic! She assumes he is in over his head, needing rescue. Egwene won't believe Mat is Prince of Ravens until the Empress (may she live forever...) tells her a second time that she married Knotai. She persists in this belief later on when she contemplates how to grant Mat asylum without jeopardizing the alliance with the Seanchan.
  12. Supporting (Minor) Characters, a lot of their fates weren't disclosed (I know there wasn't the space for it...): Petra??? Did he have a falling out with Valan Luca and leave the Menagerie? Did some kind of disaster / Bubble of Evil destroy the traveling show and force Petra to find another line of work? He always struck me as a "gentle giant" type, it's hard to imagine him voluntarily choosing to become a soldier in the Seanchan Army. I remember Mat saying that Petra and his wife were saving to buy an inn someday, presumably to retire from the show and operate personally. Setalle Anan: Always liked her character, the way she mistakenly treated Nynaeve and Elayne as trollops (LOC) was hilarious. She was extremely loyal to and protective of Mat; opting to continue serving the forces of the Light instead of taking a Gateway to Illian and rejoining her family. I really hoped she survived Aravine's betrayal at the Gateway to FOM but the odds are against it. The Trollocs and Sharans had several hours to run down and recapture the survivors of Faile's caravan. Juilin Sandar: The thief catcher who thought himself as good as a Lord, the last POV I remember was of him leading a squad of infantry on the WT's counterattack up the West Slope of Polov Heights: If the AS took 50% fatalities in that fight you can imagine how badly the Tower Guards must have fared... Juilin probably won't be pursuing Tar Valon's "Most Wanted" in the Fourth Age! Does anyone else have a favorite minor character that fell into oblivion at the closing of AMOL?
  13. KOD, Ch 36 Mat explains his beforehand knowledge to Tuon: "I went through a ter'angreal to somewhere else, another world maybe. The people there aren't really people--they look like snakes--but they'll answer three questions for you, and their answers are always true. One of mine was that I'd marry the Daughter of the Nine Moons..." One of the few times Mat comes clean with the truth and what is his reward? Being publicly rapped on the head and lectured about harboring superstitions and telling lies. Contrast to this passage in TGS, Ch 19 Tuon reacts to Tylee's disclosure: Tuon felt she should be shocked. But, oddly, she wasn't. So Matrim was not mistaken about this, she signed covertly to Selucia. And she had assumed Trollocs to be nothing more than superstition. She glanced at the heads again. Revolting. Selucia seemed troubled. Are there other things he said that we discounted, I wonder? Tuon hesitated. We shall have to ask him. I should very much like to have him back... Poor Mat, this doesn't bode well for his reunion. Fortuona and Selucia are going to turn it into an interrogation / debriefing; reviewing all his "superstitions" and determining which of his "lies" can be reclassified...
  14. It just seems to be heavily foreshadowed in his TOM epilogue POV, wonder what it could be? Some Possibilities: Olver decides to charge a fist of Trollocs, single-handedly with his knife... Olver challenges a Myrddraal to a single combat duel... Olver casts down his defiance upon the nearest Dreadlord he encounters... Olver attempts to flirt with one of the female Forsaken using his most "winning" smile... I can't help but imagine the following scenario; Mat and the Band with Allied Forces smash the Caemlyn invasion, killing all Trollocs and Fades while forcing the Dreadlords and Forsaken to retreat thru a hastily made gateway. A clean sweep, except the last surviving Darkfriend has locked himself in a Palace storeroom with a hostage... Mat: He has who? Talmanes, what the bloody @#$%&! is going on? How did Olver get mixed up in your counter attack? Why wasn't Setalle Annan watching him? Darkfriend: (shouting thru heavy wooden door) These are my demands, if you don't want your darling little brat harmed... Mat: You see this is what happens when you start feeding random street urchins (Birgitte cuffs him in back of head). Ow! Cut that out, you know I was only joking to lighten the tension and give myself time to think... Darkfriend: I want a carriage with safe passage to the Waygate, one of those Saidar neutralizing ter'angreal foxhead things, and ummmmm teen thowwwsand Andoran gold crowns while you at it... Mat: What! Why doesn't he also ask for the bloody Queen to be his traveling maid while he's at it...? Elayne: (looking at Birgitte) Birgitte, I really think I could help... Birgitte: Forget it Elayne, you max'ed out your spontaneous suicidal impulses three books ago...
  15. Like the new rendition of Egwene and Rand on the DM website banner, nice foreshadowing of the tension between the WT and the Dragon Reborn's "Grand Coalition". They look like prime candidates for conflict resolution therapy, but who is brave enough to counsel them and possibly draw the ire of the two most powerful leaders of the Third Age? Counselor: Recognizing the problem is the first step; Egwene and Rand, I commend you for being willing to talk thru your conflict. And I need to remind you that we are in Far Madding and that neither of you will be able to touch the source or channel, so please refrain from dramatic gestures. You two must work together if there is any hope of the world surviving Tarmon Gai'don and fixing the Bore. Egwene, please begin. Egwene: Where do I start? His woolhead scheme for breaking the three last Seals and releasing the Dark One or the other chaos and collateral damage he has caused all over the world? Rand: She doesn't realize that I have changed after undergoing an epiphany; I'm now Rand Sedai, no longer Darth Rand who was going Aridhol on the World. Egwene: Yes, he insists Saidin has been cleansed but there isn't a way to confirm that with Saidar. And that reminds me; he also had Aes Sedai forcibly bonded by his Ashaman which he is yet to explain... Rand: I had no prior knowledge of Taim's and Logain's actions. Yes, I did demand some loyalty oaths but that was after Dumai's Wells. What I would like to know is why the White Tower wants to slow my consolidation of power and undermine the coalition which I am trying to build? Egwene: Tarmon Gai'don and the fate of the world are too important to risk on the shoulders of one man, even the Dragon Reborn! You must accept our guidance and help or else the Salvation is in jeopardy. Counselor: It seems what you two are talking about is differences in strategy; I sense that the problem is more personal. Didn’t the two of you come from the same village in Western Andor and more or less grow up together? Egwene: Yes, that’s true at least, Emonds Field where I worked at my family’s inn. He (glares at Rand), was a bumpkin from off the farm in Westwood, who would visit and cause mischief on the village green with his two “friends”. Counselor: (Consults notes) Um, those would be General Cauthon and Lord Aybara? Aren’t they also known for being Ta’veren and having performed amazing feats in the struggle against the Dark One? Egwene: Ggrrrr! Ta’veren! Yes, they were just handed this so called instant “Greatness”. They didn’t have to acquire it by hard work, scheming, and manipulation… I remember what wide eyed fools they were when they first left the Two Rivers; they actually thought Baerlorn was a grand city! Counselor: Egwene, I perceive that you are envious of Rand’s accomplishments; hasn’t he ever acknowledged that you too have also done important things? Egwene: Well, yes; during his strange recent visit when he just strolled into the White Tower causing untold bedlam he did compliment me in a backhanded way, right before requesting my help for one of his ill thought plans. Counselor: Hmmm, Hasn’t he always respected you and your feelings? Egwene: Yes, he has, but he keeps secrets from me when he knows that I have this overwhelming need to know EVERYTHING. How does he expect my help when I don’t understand all of his motivations? Counselor: Don’t you think that some of his thoughts should remain private in respect to operational security? Didn’t you just purge a bunch of Darkfriends in your own organization that were plotting against you and the forces of the Light? Egwene: Yes, (reddens) but I think Rand doesn’t “share” with me because he is too embarrassed to discuss his scandals in the open. Why, do you know he’s corrupted two of my best friends in some sort of kinky love triangle and worst of all my friends won’t even admit it too me. Rand: Actually, Egwene, it’s a quadrangle and I’m even more confused about it then you. (Sigh) Mat was right; I should have run for the Hills a long time ago…
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