Lanfear and Moirane in the Last Battle

[CrazyJP]

I'm new to this site and havn't been around any WoT forums in years so i'm not sure if this has been discussed. This is my incomplete thought has been rattling around in my head for awhile now. Hopefully someone can help flesh it out for me (don't have all the books anymore) or prove me wrong so i can get it out of me head! :P

 

I've always wondered about the reason that Moiraine HAS to be at the last battle. It stands to reason that she's going to do something BIG. Min had a viewing of a black hand holding calandor (or something like that). Which to me suggests that a dark friend is going to control it.

 

Now, ever since we found out that Calandor needs 2 women linked with Rand and one of the women controlling the link, and knowing Nyneve is one of them... it just always felt fitting to me that Moiraine would be the other one. No GOOD reason for this thinking... just seems to fit to me. Who else? One of the wonder girls i suppose but i think they'll be busy.

 

Basically I think that Moiraine is going to be the one controlling the link with Rand and Nyn at the last battle. Now we know Moiraine isn't a dark friend, so who's the black hand? Perhaps the reason Moiraine has to be at the last battle (min's viewing) is because she's going to hand over control of the link to Lanfear (perhaps one of the questions she asked the 'finn).

 

I don't have all the books but does anyone know if it was Lanfear or Ishmael who was the actual one to control the weaves that poked the hole? I can see it being Lanfear who did it (being a glory hound that she is) and I could see it requiring the same person to retrace the steps of the original weave.

 

This is all based of course on thinking Moiraine will be holding the link. But that viewing of the black hand holding the sword I would think means a dark friend women in the mix and who else other than Lanfear? (maybe mordin will take the sword but that seems weak to me) And how else would she get control of the link unless it's willingly handed over? And who would trust LANFEAR? Only someone with foreknowledge I would think.

 

Also I would think that Lanfear would be the more qualified than any woman alive to do it. Plus she's a big enough glory hound to actually switch sides again to be the only woman to ever do what only the Dragon can do. And she wouldn't stop weaving to freak out while Fain was killing Rand (not sure if this has been confirmed either it just seems intuitively obvious to me that Fain will kill Rand.... he'll give his life sort of thing).

 

 

Anyways that's my incomplete thought.

 

I just can't think of how Cyndane fits in.

[OptimusPrime]

Regarding Moiraines role, Im convinced shes going to either help Rand avoid going Dark again, or deal with him if he does. More specifically I think its going to involve the bond to Alanna, and that either a) Moiraine will make Alanna pass the bond to her before Alanna gets killed (going to happen), or b) that Alanna will get killed while still bonded to Rand, Rand will go Dark, and then Moiraine convinces Dark Rand to let her bond him, and then influence his frame of mind via the bond, to stop him from rotting food and disrupting the Pattern.

 

As to Callandor and the black hand, Im convinced that involves Narishma. Could Fain stab Narishmas hand, it turns black, but someone wards him against the infection, then he uses Callandor at the end? Ive always been convinced the end circle would involve Narishma and Alivia, and most likely Nynaeve now, but the black hand is hard to get round. I dont think a Darkfriend will use Callandor though.

[Feral]

 

 

I don't have all the books but does anyone know if it was Lanfear or Ishmael who was the actual one to control the weaves that poked the hole? I can see it being Lanfear who did it (being a glory hound that she is) and I could see it requiring the same person to retrace the steps of the original weave.

 

 

I don't believe Ishamael was involved in boring the hole at all... Could be wrong though.

[MasterAblar]

 

 

I don't have all the books but does anyone know if it was Lanfear or Ishmael who was the actual one to control the weaves that poked the hole? I can see it being Lanfear who did it (being a glory hound that she is) and I could see it requiring the same person to retrace the steps of the original weave.

 

 

I don't believe Ishamael was involved in boring the hole at all... Could be wrong though.

 

Ishamael wasn't involved. Lanfear and a guy called Beidomon were the leaders of the team who drilled into the bore.

[damandred]

I think morraine will help Rand avoid walking into the (obvious) trap set by Lanfear which we glimpsed at the end of ToM

[CrazyJP]

drekka- ur crazy man!

ferral/ablar - ahh thanx... good to know

dam - i first thought it was obvious too.... but that starts to make me think that it's not a trap. maybe cyndane isn't a real lanfear but a copy or something and the real lanfear is being punished

[Kahsm]

I think morraine will help Rand avoid walking into the (obvious) trap set by Lanfear which we glimpsed at the end of ToM

 

Obvious eh? Obviously I won't argue this ISN'T up for interpretation. But I personally think the cry for help is legit. I mean she's got to be in a pretty shitty place right now, and who else would she call?

 

Though I also wouldn't be surprised maybe if Moridin was using her as bait for a trap, but it wouldn't be her trap. Her cries for help would be legit.

[damandred]

I think morraine will help Rand avoid walking into the (obvious) trap set by Lanfear which we glimpsed at the end of ToM

 

Obvious eh? Obviously I won't argue this ISN'T up for interpretation. But I personally think the cry for help is legit. I mean she's got to be in a pretty shitty place right now, and who else would she call?

 

Though I also wouldn't be surprised maybe if Moridin was using her as bait for a trap, but it wouldn't be her trap. Her cries for help would be legit.

 

Of course its a trap. It very nearly tells us a few pages before the dream Rand/Lanfear scene, were graendal tries to quick talk Shaidar Haran, she says Al'thor thinks I'm dead and he tells her that opportunity has been given to another.

Given that though maybe Lanfears love for LTT will have her betray the shadow.

[Rose]

Has anyone thought that the "other" to whom the opportunity was given was Demandred? After all, it was high time he finally did something, and he's the only one apart from Moridin who is still an independent Forsaken at that point - Cyndane and Moghedien seem to have mostly become Moridin's pets. Maybe Demandred was given Cyndane's mindtrap as a tool to use against Rand.

[Lacanos]

Ignore me.

[MasterAblar]

Ignore me.

 

Ha ha, too late I saw what you posted. No Beidomon isn't Balthamel, he was just a researcher and he later killed himself when he realised what he'd done.

[mb]

The closest Viewing seems to be this one::

Rand, a brilliant white sword held in his hand, wielded against one of black, held by a faceless darkness.

Towers of Midnight

 

That faceless darkness I guess is the Dark One.

 

 

Dark hand holding Callandor, that was a Dream (Egwene, Crown of Swords). Dark indicating skintone. Narishma.

[CrazyJP]

mb - i thought min had a viewing about a black hand holding it in ToM.

[FarShainMael]

It was in ToM51. "A glowing sword, Callandor, being gripped in a black hand.. The hand looks to be made of onyx."

[DigDatDyler]

It was in ToM51. "A glowing sword, Callandor, being gripped in a black hand.. The hand looks to be made of onyx."

 

Rand somehow gets himself a powerwrought hand before TG?

[FarShainMael]

It was in ToM51. "A glowing sword, Callandor, being gripped in a black hand.. The hand looks to be made of onyx."

 

Rand somehow gets himself a powerwrought hand before TG?

 

Perhaps Perrin will organise something..

 

One other possibility (really wild, I know): We are told that the walls within the ToG where Mat and co entered were 'onyx-coloured' (ToM53). Makes me wonder if one of Moiraine's requests to the Eelfinn was for something to replace Rand's missing hand.

[Tyzack]

I support the "new hand" movement.

[quickster23]

Which brings as back to who will be the 2 holding callandor with Rand. I think it will be Egwene and Elayne/ Elayne and Aviendha/ Moraine and Egwene/ Egwene and Aviendha/ or Moraine and Aviendha because Elayne and Aviendha are 2 of Rands 3 women and their strong in the power so is Egwene and Rand knows all of them even Moraine so he trusts them best to do it with him.

[Terez]

Regarding Moiraines role, Im convinced shes going to either help Rand avoid going Dark again, or deal with him if he does.

I prefer the latter, but it could technically be both; many people prefer that Rand not go Dark again, but nevertheless recognize that he needs to die because of his link with Moridin. So some people see something similar to Egwene's 'for what is' during her Accepted test, but Rand begging Moiraine to kill him instead of Egwene (since Egwene can't bring herself to do it). I see it being a combination, with Egwene's part being through Gawyn, whether it's a direct command or a Suroth/Alwhin/Liandrin type thing (or, 'will no one rid me of this tiresome priest). I don't really have any solid ideas on whether Rand will go dark or not. The cataclysmic things Carridin saw in his orders from Ishamael could happen because of Dark Rand or as a result of his death, or both. It pretty much has to be because of Rand, though, since the first several books' prophecies harp on the fact that Rand will break the world again. "There is no salvation without destruction."

[FarShainMael]

I support the "new hand" movement.

 

It would fit with the prophecy about 'He shall hold a blade of light in his hands' (TGS48).

[Lisa Campbell]

I support the "new hand" movement.

 

It would fit with the prophecy about 'He shall hold a blade of light in his hands' (TGS48).

 

Good catch. My first thought when reading about the black hand was of a prosthetic but I dismissed it when everyone started saying it meant a Darkfriend's hand. Maybe Elayne can create it.

[LazyMonk]

It was in ToM51. "A glowing sword, Callandor, being gripped in a black hand.. The hand looks to be made of onyx."

 

Rand somehow gets himself a powerwrought hand before TG?

 

Perhaps Perrin will organise something..

 

One other possibility (really wild, I know): We are told that the walls within the ToG where Mat and co entered were 'onyx-coloured' (ToM53). Makes me wonder if one of Moiraine's requests to the Eelfinn was for something to replace Rand's missing hand.

Wild indeed. Moiraine didn't have much opportunity to hide things when coming out of the tower (and why would she?).

[FarShainMael]

It was in ToM51. "A glowing sword, Callandor, being gripped in a black hand.. The hand looks to be made of onyx."

 

Rand somehow gets himself a powerwrought hand before TG?

 

Perhaps Perrin will organise something..

 

One other possibility (really wild, I know): We are told that the walls within the ToG where Mat and co entered were 'onyx-coloured' (ToM53). Makes me wonder if one of Moiraine's requests to the Eelfinn was for something to replace Rand's missing hand.

Wild indeed. Moiraine didn't have much opportunity to hide things when coming out of the tower (and why would she?).

 

She'd certainly have a problem hiding something that actually was made of solid onyx about her person. But what about somekind of glove-shaped thingy that was tucked into whatever clothing the Eelfinn may have left her, such as a belt? She's been wrapped in Thom's cloak since he pulled her out of the fire/mist, so we haven't seen. Yeah, I know, I'm reaching, but after all Mat did come out of their realm with a couple of artifacts.

[damandred]

How would Moiraine know about rands hand anyway? She didn't seem to know much about the out side world when she came out of ToG: ie, Rands cleaning of saidin. And if I remember right she says in her letter to Rand that apart from one last thing that didn't concern him(Thoms letter) she didn't know what would happen after her battle with Lanfear.

[FarShainMael]

Bother. You're right, of course. Oh well, back to the drawing board..

 

Edited as inspiration strikes.. If she made a general request for 'something to help Rand fight the LB' and they gave her a black 'glove', that could work! Though she'd no doubt be thinking, WTF..