I don't get this..

[ziipoo]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and i still don understand why Jordan had too put Rand's threesome into this story. Now to be clear i'm not complaining im just wondering.

 

Is there a special reason, like Ta'veren, beacuse it will help him somehow through out the story? Was it for laughs and giggles? sure I have been finding it amusing so far, but still puzzlied.... Maybe i have been missing something while reading, dont know.

 

So i want to know if you guys have any facts or thoughts about it. Would be really nice to see what you all think.

[spoke]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and i still don understand why Jordan had too put Rand's threesome into this story. Now to be clear i'm not complaining im just wondering.

 

Is there a special reason, like Ta'veren, beacuse it will help him somehow through out the story? Was it for laughs and giggles? sure I have been finding it amusing so far, but still puzzlied.... Maybe i have been missing something while reading, dont know.

 

So i want to know if you guys have any facts or thoughts about it. Would be really nice to see what you all think.

 

 

There is some Norse mythology related to it, others could explain better, but there are three Norse witches, a ruler, a warrior, and a seer/prophetess.

[FarShainMael]

They are the Triple Goddess of paganism: the Maiden (Avi), the Mother (Elayne), and the Wise Woman/guide/crone (Min) who is not always elderly.

[randsc]

They're the Triple Goddess. Or, you know, they're adolescent wish fulfillment. One or the other.

 

Actually, that's unfair. I'm setting up a false choice. They needn't be either the Triple Goddess or a horndog fantasy.

 

They could be both.

[randsc]

They are the Triple Goddess of paganism: the Maiden (Avi), the Mother (Elayne), and the Wise Woman/guide/crone (Min) who is not always elderly.

 

As we've discussed before, Min's 26 if she's a day. Crone seems fair.

[Xcorpyo001]

I have been thinking about this for a while now and i still don understand why Jordan had too put Rand's threesome into this story. Now to be clear i'm not complaining im just wondering.

 

Is there a special reason, like Ta'veren, beacuse it will help him somehow through out the story? Was it for laughs and giggles? sure I have been finding it amusing so far, but still puzzlied.... Maybe i have been missing something while reading, dont know.

 

So i want to know if you guys have any facts or thoughts about it. Would be really nice to see what you all think.

 

 

I don't understand what you don't like about this.

He's the DR, man. If he's going to die to save the world, at least he can do it with a smile on his face.

And technically, I think it's a foursome?!? Don't know if this is the correct term for it.

[ziipoo]

Belive me it's not like i don't like it, i was just curious.

 

That was news about the norse gods!

But that brings me back to why in this story?

 

Who knows im maybe just overanylizing it..

[Alric]

They are the Triple Goddess of paganism: the Maiden (Avi), the Mother (Elayne), and the Wise Woman/guide/crone (Min) who is not always elderly.

I don't think those fit. They may if somebody wants them to fit, but if you think about it, it doesn't make much sense or describe any of them well in particular.

 

From that site:

 

The Maiden represents enchantment, inception, expansion, the promise of new beginnings, birth, youth and youthful enthusiasm, represented by the waxing moon.

The Mother represents ripeness, fertility, sexuality, fulfillment, stability, power and life represented by the full moon.

The Crone represents wisdom, repose, death, and endings represented by the waning moon.

 

Other than the word "maiden" which refers to something Avi isn't anymore anyway, those descriptions are still just vague and ill fitting.

 

In my humble opinion, I think RJ must have based Rand's relationships on something (it's just too much like him), but its not this.

 

 

[Alric]

Belive me it's not like i don't like it, i was just curious.

I'm also wondering what it brings to the story, but I'm sure there will be a purpose in the end. I've never read past WH so I don't know if it becomes clearer. It isn't bad, it's quite good at times, I'm just not sure exactly what to make of it yet. It could have something to do with the fact that everyone expects Rand to die, including himself, so he is allowed "special treatment".. but the question why still remains.

 

 

[Guest PiotrekS]

Do we really need a reason for a threesome?...

 

 

Triple goddess makes sense though. And "The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond" - threes sound cool in all kind of prophecies.

 

Didn't RJ also say that he had been in a relationship like that once - i.e. when the women agreed to share a man?I'm pretty sure he said something like that.

[Majsju]

 

 

Didn't RJ also say that he had been in a relationship like that once - i.e. when the women agreed to share a man?I'm pretty sure he said something like that.

 

Yup, RJ once had a relationship with two women at the same time, (and not in the sneaky way). So he jokingly said that if he could handle two, surely the saviour of the world could handle three.

[bsmnt23]

When Arthur is born away to the Isle of Avalon, he is accompanied by three women (i have never seen them named, but it could simply be another allusion ((especialy considering the Fortelling about three women on a boat)) to the Fisher King mythos). I like the three godesses from the Norse myth, and I could see how it might apply to Rand's three. I'm willing to bet that it's in there just because the three are in almost every Arthur Last Battle story.

 

That being said, I'm still going with horndog fantasy ;)

[sleepinghour]

When Arthur is born away to the Isle of Avalon, he is accompanied by three women (i have never seen them named, but it could simply be another allusion ((especialy considering the Fortelling about three women on a boat)) to the Fisher King mythos).

I think that's probably what RJ had in mind, but the three women didn't need to be Rand's lovers.

 

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives.

Egwene and Moiraine would also qualify as "she who sees beyond"--Egwene is a Dreamer and Moiraine saw the future in Rhuidean. If we're to go by Arthurian legend, it's actually Moiraine.

 

...thus was he led away in a ship wherein were three queens; that one was King Arthur's sister, Queen Morgan le Fay; the other was the Queen of Northgalis; the third was the Queen of the Waste Lands. Also there was Nimue, the chief lady of the lake, that had wedded Pelleas the good knight; and this lady had done much for King Arthur, for she would never suffer Sir Pelleas to be in no place where he should be in danger of his life; and so he lived to the uttermost of his days with her in great rest.

Morgan le Fay = Moiraine, Queen of Northgalis = Elayne, Queen of the Waste Lands = Aviendha, Nimue (sometimes called Nineve) = Nynaeve, Pelleas = Lan.

[Lisa Campbell]

I think it's because Rand will need the Talents of all three in the end. And there's nothing wrong with friends with benefits either.

[Goramier]

It should never have been included. I feel that all the interloving crap takes away from the story. Rand has suffered and suffered greatly. RJ really kicked the crap out of Rand and he is living upon the train tracks watching as the train nears. He is in the ultimate struggle. He struggles with powers, with friends, with reality, with himself...

 

RJ IMO added the relationships in to give a more human feel to the story. Less lovin, more slaughter I say. How much better would it have been had Rand just lopped off the heads of those three during the series. It would have been a grand march to the soundtrack of his madness. I wouldn't have even have felt guilty. I would have had the biggest smile on my face the entire scene.

 

The Wheel of Time is a powerful series and we can see that via the fans. It could have been so much more powerful though. Yes I fully agree that it is easier to see this as a Monday morning quarterback but it doesn't change the fact. Perin should have gone over to the shadow to become a prime Dredlord and lead the armies of the shadow and Rand, deep and lost within his madness should have killed all three of his lovers and tossed in his dad for good measure.

 

"You may call me Rand Sedai" was the most powerful scene in the series IMO but imagine how much more powerful it COULD have been had we really been left with such circumstances. Where the main character is left in ruins...as pop culture has started to capture, left laying upon rock bottom.

 

I see others have eluded to the norse myths and they are probably right. That and RJ probably has some reason to include it into the final book. But you can't go wrong with more death, destruction and mass slaughter. At the end of the day, the true hero in this entire series is Padan Fain. He has a clear objective and goes for it even when the rest of the world can't see the rightness of his quest. He draws a hard line and is willing to do what he needs to in getting it done. Basically Pada Fain is like the anti-hero. He is portrayed in a negative light and people THINK he is a bad guy but really is the only true hero in the series. Raise up your glasses to the only man in the entire book who is willing to get done what needs to be done without letting himself be side tracked with all the nonsense.

[Agitel]

Considering that Rand, Mat and Perrin are all three based on Norse gods (Tyr, Odin, and Thor respectively) the Triple Goddess idea, while new to me, makes perfect sense. Rand was also inspired by the legend of King Arthur, so that works well, too. As for the descriptions of the goddesses, people are over-thinking that a bit. RJ wasn't intending to parallel the Norse legends, he was attempting to provide the source for them. Legends turn to myths, right?

 

RJ summed it up best with Thom in The Shadow Rising.

 

“And that is only a thousand years back. Go back further, back to the oldest tales I know, from the Age before the Age of Legends. Did Mosk and Merk really fight with spears of fire, and were they even giants? Was Elsbet really queen of the whole world, and was Anla really her sister? Was Anla truly the Wise Counselor, or was it someone else? As well ask what sort of animal ivory comes from, or what kind of plant grows silk. Unless that comes from an animal, too.”

 

The trio doesn't need to match the descriptions perfectly, thousands of years of myth warps and mixes their roles.

[FarShainMael]

This. ^^^^^

 

I don't know who it was on these boards who first suggested the Triple Goddess idea, but when I read it I thought 'cool'. Especially with the near-pun on 'Maiden'.

 

@randsc: 26 if she's a day indeed.. (hobbles off to find where I put walking stick, ooh me pore ole back, ooh..)

[Terez]

It's also in the Perun legends:

 

The Slavonic tales abound in accounts of how a dead hero is restored to life by means of this precious liquid, which is sometimes brought by the Whirlwind, the Thunder, and the Hail, sometimes by their types the Raven, the Hawk, the Eagle, and the Dove. But they differ from most of the similar stories in this respect. They have two species of what is called the "strong" or the "heroic" water. The one is called "the dead water" (mertvaya voda); the other the "living [or vivifying] water" (zhivaya voda). Contrary to its name, however, the dead water does not bring death; rather, it makes mutilated bodies whole, and heals wounds. But unlike live water, it does not possess the power of resurrection. Folktales are replete with motifs of dead and live water. Like the spring rains which first melt the earth, purify her, make her whole, while the following rains resurrect her, the dead hero too is first sprinkled with dead water, and then with live water, before he comes to life again. When that has been done, the corpse first shudders and then sits up, usually remarking "How long I have been asleep?" or "Oh, did I sleep too long?"

 

What is the source of these waters? This brings us to the arbor mundi, the world tree. There, in the centre of the universe stands the oak tree, on its top sits the bird of paradise, the eagle, under its roots lies the snake demon. Two springs flow out from under the tree; one of live water, and the other of dead water. Near the springs sit three women, the fortune tellers. One knows the past, the other the future, and the third, the present. They decide what should be and what should not be, and the fate of every being. They bring death or life, and continuously work over the creation of the world (Here I may add that one of the magical values of live water is that it imparts wisdom and power to tell the future).

[Winespring Patron]

It was done simply to give Nynaeve a chance to launch a tirade in a fit of righteous indignation and Mat to laugh while advising Rand to run for the hills (away from the three beautiful women). Yep, when Rand announces that he has consummated all three of his "desires" I expect Nyn will snap out of her current mellowed-out state and start looking for the nearest object to thump the "mighty Lord Dragon" with and Mat will be doing a ROFL in the background...

[rageofwar1978]

I always thought that somehow it was Ilyena's soul split into three new bodies so that somehow rand could learn something from each of them.

[Agitel]

I always thought that somehow it was Ilyena's soul split into three new bodies so that somehow rand could learn something from each of them.

 

RJ confirmed this wasn't the case when he explained souls don't get split apart or mixed together when reborn. To be honest, I don't even think Ilyena's alive at the moment, or at least, there's no reason for her to have been reborn at the same time. I'm not saying it's impossible, but why would she have to be?

[ziipoo]

I always thought that somehow it was Ilyena's soul split into three new bodies so that somehow rand could learn something from each of them.

 

RJ confirmed this wasn't the case when he explained souls don't get split apart or mixed together when reborn. To be honest, I don't even think Ilyena's alive at the moment, or at least, there's no reason for her to have been reborn at the same time. I'm not saying it's impossible, but why would she have to be?

 

Would be so sad if Ilyena was reborn and Rand met her in the last book. Can just see how epic/sad (depending on how they meet) that scene would be!

[Albion]

Would be so sad if Ilyena was reborn and Rand met her in the last book. Can just see how epic/sad (depending on how they meet) that scene would be!

 

I think it would be nice to see her again. I thought it was a possibility because I think the quote from TGS, from Viens of Gold chapter, was about Ilyena:

 

 

Within that moment, suddenly something amazing occurred to him. If I live again, then she might as well!