Lan vs Mat

[Crimson_Ayla]

Ok, so here's something that's been on my mind for a while.

 

We know Lan is the best swordsman in Randland. We also know that Mat is pretty handy with his staff, beating Galad and Gawyn at the same time, all while feeling a bit under the weather.

 

What I was pondering is, how would a fight between Lan and Mat go? Who would win, and how easy a victory would it be? What about if Lan didn't have his warder bond? Let me know your thoughts

 

Also, who are your picks for best non-sword fighters in the fantasy realm?

[Leyrann]

I think Mat would win. If not for his weapon skills, then for his luck.

 

And I think Mat is the best non-sword non-magic fighter of all fantasy I know.

 

PS You could add a poll. IIRC, you can create it, if you edit your first post. And if you can't, well, I think the thread will survive...

[David Selig]

Mat, but that's because he cheats due to his luck. Otherwise Lan will kick his butt without much problems.

[capuga]

Take out Mat's luck and Lan's warder bond to even the field.

 

Lan wins a very tough fight. That man refuses to quit or lose and would find a way to get the job done. This fight would be much closer and better than Lan versus any other swordsman.

[Leyrann]

I don't know if Lan would win. I'm sure Gawyn is stronger than Lan, because he defeated Sleet plus random Gaidin four times (or three, don't know), while Sleet alone beat Lan two of the seven times. I know, Gawyn wasn't that good when he fought Mat, but he was together with Galad, who was better at that point. And he hasn't had that much practice later one.

[capuga]

I don't know if Lan would win. I'm sure Gawyn is stronger than Lan, because he defeated Sleet plus random Gaidin four times (or three, don't know), while Sleet alone beat Lan two of the seven times. I know, Gawyn wasn't that good when he fought Mat, but he was together with Galad, who was better at that point. And he hasn't had that much practice later one.

 

If you're arguing that Gawyn is a better swordsman than Lan we know this from RJ and Brandon:

 

Lan > Rand with two hands > Galad > Gawyn

 

With word of God we don't need to debate the best swordsman in this thread (there's already a few for that talk).

 

That said, it could be argued that Gawyn is at least close to Lan at this point and since Mat beat Gawyn he could also beat Lan. I just believe that Lan would find a way. See New Spring for an instance of Lan overcoming a superior opponent just because on his refusal to quit. And he's much more deadly and singularly focused now then he was back then.

[mandersen]

IF the pattern for some reason needed Mat to win then of course his luck would prevail. Barring that, Mat's luck would barely be enough for him to survive the encounter. Don't get me wrong, I think Mat's one of the best around. But Lan's strength, speed, experience, concentration, and discipline make him a near unstoppable force.

[avernite]

I'd go for a draw. Mat is the better fighter with chosen weapons, possibly (see also how handily his staff beat Gawyn and Galad), but I do not think Lan is the kind of fighter who minds switching... and he is darn deadly.

 

But, Mat has his luck, so I'd say a toss-up between sheer deadliness and luck (nevermiund Mat also being quite deadly).

[Crimson_Ayla]

I think this fight (in the unlikely event it should ever occur) would greatly depend on the reasons they were both fighting. It may be a case of who felt they NEEDED to win more, but I'm not sure if Lan's mind works like that He always seems pretty determined to me.

[Turin Turambar]

I voted for the draw option, which I view to mean the fight is a toss-up. If it was on deadliest warrior and they ran a 1000 times the differential would be between 5 and 10 more victories for Mat . The difference is in the weapon. His ashendarei has more options, and more range than Lan's Sword.

[Leyrann]

If we're talking about Mat's luck, we must not forget that it's not caused by the Pattern or ta'veren. Robert Jordan has said that his luck is REALLY the DO's luck.

[Finnssss22]

I don't know if Lan would win. I'm sure Gawyn is stronger than Lan, because he defeated Sleet plus random Gaidin four times (or three, don't know), while Sleet alone beat Lan two of the seven times. I know, Gawyn wasn't that good when he fought Mat, but he was together with Galad, who was better at that point. And he hasn't had that much practice later one.

 

 

Sleet managed to win two of seven from Lan WHEN Lan used to actually duel with other Warders. That was a long time ago.

 

...and as Mark Grayson already mentioned, both RJ and BS have stated quite often, Lan > Rand with two hands > Galad > Gawyn.

 

 

As far as the question here....well, let's see...Mat beat both Galad and Gawyn together with only a quarterstaff and that was before he was given his memories by the Finns.

Memories that he states outright granted him the ability to use his Ashandarei as skillfully as he does.

 

Gotta go with Mat here but only by a 4-3 or 5-2 out of 7.

[Lacanos]

Slightly OT, but I can't be the only one who's pissed off that Rand is some super-swordsman as well (even pre-LT memories). He should be very good, but not better than Galad or Gawyn, who've been training a long long time longer than him.

 

He could be good, sure, but that good? Unnecessary and probably the thing I dislike about Rand

[ironisles]

So why is everyone counting Rand out because he lost a hand? Yeah, he's gonna have to change how he fights a bit. But it isn't like he's using both hands to fight with all the time anyway.

[David Selig]

Slightly OT, but I can't be the only one who's pissed off that Rand is some super-swordsman as well (even pre-LT memories). He should be very good, but not better than Galad or Gawyn, who've been training a long long time longer than him.

 

He could be good, sure, but that good? Unnecessary and probably the thing I dislike about Rand

I find Mat's case much more ridiculous. Apparently just training in his spare time in his village made him good enough to beat top class fighters who train all the time. And for the first two books, he never used a staff and was pretty useless in fighting apart from his bow, then suddenly it turned out he was a complete badass with the staff...give me a break. Not to mention that unlike Rand, we never ever see Mat train with his weapon.

[Louise]

So why is everyone counting Rand out because he lost a hand? Yeah, he's gonna have to change how he fights a bit. But it isn't like he's using both hands to fight with all the time anyway.

Rand says himself that he'll have to learn the sword all over again, as most sword forms require two hands. Maybe with time (alot of time,) he could climb back up the ranks but as it stands:

"The loss of his hand, though it wasn't his primary sword hand, would leave him vulnerable if he were to face a skilled opponent."

-Rand, tGS

 

 

Mat...just. His luck would win out. As Leyrann said, it's the DO's, that would have to get him over the line.

[Justanotherfacet]

Curious to see someone mentioned Matt without luck vs Lan without bond. I had a thread going a while back about how Lan could possibly be the best blademaster since he's old as hell and even if his skills are still there, his reflexes, endurance, sight etc would handicap him. What proceeded to occur was a flood of responses about how the warder bond plus healing is keeping Lan in his prime. I conceded this point.

 

So Lan unbonded vs Matt normal-luck

I say Matt will win. Youthful body and several lifetimes worth of combat experience vs old genius with one lifetime of skills

[Stitch]

Lan would dominate, then get hit by a meteorite. Taveren/DO's Luck hax ftw

[Crimson_Ayla]

Lan would dominate, then get hit by a meteorite. Taveren/DO's Luck hax ftw

 

That's hilarious

I could imagine Mat's luck doing that.

[David Selig]

Lan would dominate, then get hit by a meteorite. Taveren/DO's Luck hax ftw

LOL, this is exactly what I thought too and wanted to post in my first post, but then reconsidered. ;)

[Louise]

Lan would dominate, then get hit by a meteorite. Taveren/DO's Luck hax ftw

 

Absolutely hilarious! Good call!

 

I can just picture it, brilliant!

[Suttree]

Slightly OT, but I can't be the only one who's pissed off that Rand is some super-swordsman as well (even pre-LT memories). He should be very good, but not better than Galad or Gawyn, who've been training a long long time longer than him.

 

He could be good, sure, but that good? Unnecessary and probably the thing I dislike about Rand

I find Mat's case much more ridiculous. Apparently just training in his spare time in his village made him good enough to beat top class fighters who train all the time. And for the first two books, he never used a staff and was pretty useless in fighting apart from his bow, then suddenly it turned out he was a complete badass with the staff...give me a break. Not to mention that unlike Rand, we never ever see Mat train with his weapon.

 

I don't think it's all that ridiculous actually. Given that historically the staff is a farmers weapon and his father won the contest at Bel Tine every year in the TR. Stands to reason he trained his son pretty extensively. Add to that the advantages it has verse a sword through the story of Jearom and it's not that far out there.

[csarmi]

Vote: The Shadow.

[csarmi]

As for Mat fighting with his Ahsenderei, and Lan with his sword, Mat. Lan would never stand a chance because of the weapons.

[Goldstar]

I think Mat would win. If not for his weapon skills, then for his luck.

 

And I think Mat is the best non-sword non-magic fighter of all fantasy I know.

 

PS You could add a poll. IIRC, you can create it, if you edit your first post. And if you can't, well, I think the thread will survive...

Quoted for truth.