Mafia Grievances

[Sedai]

So my biggest problem with mafia today is four things

 

1) the speed

2) players waiting till deadline to pile on votes

3) people saying something is scummy but give no reason

4) people being overly nice. (it's a game where your lynching and stabbing. Get ruthless, call people out, it makes it more fun)

 

I just had to say somethings

[WWWwombat]

I like to say someone is scummy without explaining when it has already been discussed or is pretty self-evident. Totally agree on the rest.

[John E. Kelley]

My biggest beef is that I don't know how to post in red.

[Nolder]

[ color=red]your red text here[ /color]

 

do that without spaces

[Ithillian Turambar]

Hahaha Ishy - here is the manual type code for red -

 

[**color=#FF0000]vote[/color**]

 

And for BOLD red

 

[**b][**color=#FF0000]vote[/color**][/b**]

 

Just delete the little stars when you want to use them. I keep a copy saved in the notepad on my phone so I can just copy and paste when I need to use it.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ithi

 

 

*Avoids looking at Jack because she is definitely guilty of some of these things, especially number four ;-)*

[Cainam]

well ive never played and dont know how so i would say sure be jerks and talk smack

[WWWwombat]

lol Ithilian I even commented on it in that Seanchan game :P

[Ithillian Turambar]

Hmmmmm ...

 

*Looks at Wombat *

 

If I remember correctly you just kept saying I was scum, and I was like, am so NOT Mafia - because I was actually Cult (completely different in my mind lol) and I hate that word scum SOOOO much. It has a completely different feeling here in the UK. But there you were ... Saying it over and over and over lol - I was so cross with you hahaha.

 

In my defence, with regards to the above issues however, since playing a little more - I am respecting the playing method of some of you guys a lot more and don't immediately think you must be Mafia just because you are playing hard and are very vocal. I do love to see a nice busy game - I just like to avoid the confrontations myself lol.

[John E. Kelley]

[ color=red]TEST[ /color]

[WWWwombat]

lol sorry Ithi.

 

Ishmael, remove the spaces.

[ed2funy]

The need to apologize for everything is annoying. -_-

[Verbal32]

The need to apologize for everything is annoying. -_-

 

Your face is annoying.

 

>_>

[LilyElizabeth]

I have to say that I agree with you, Jack, although I might not have put it exactly that way. Mafia is very different here than it used to be, no doubt.

 

What I really don't like is how many people sign up but then don't play or barely play. It's been that way since I started playing, but it's my biggest problem. Don't they know they are taking the fun away from the players who do play? Don't they care?

 

I think I may get stricter as a mod about that. Maybe some others will, too.

[JenLenaMom]

I agree with you Lily about mafia not being like it used to be here. Don't know that I like it enough to keep playing.

 

My biggest gripe is that I keep getting offed on day or night 1!!!! LOL

[LilyElizabeth]

I understand what you're saying, JLM, but I think I'd rather try to be part of the solution than just walk away.

[Sedai]

Agreed sis

[WWWwombat]

I agree with you Lily about mafia not being like it used to be here. Don't know that I like it enough to keep playing.

 

My biggest gripe is that I keep getting offed on day or night 1!!!! LOL

 

It's your rep. If you weren't original scum in that vampire game you woulda been recruited or killed ASAP along with Verbal (I'm betting you initiated the Verbal recruit and didn't meet much resistance) Not sure what to do about that. Mynd survives by being a walking WIFOM and FoSing everybody and Kivam by being invaluable when town yet deadly as scum. Personally, I like the challenge of leaving big game alive as scum. I still have to get Kivam back for his false coroner claim >:(

[Sedai]

That's why I play like I do on different sites.

[JenLenaMom]

I understand what you're saying, JLM, but I think I'd rather try to be part of the solution than just walk away.

 

 

Really I've felt MEH about mafia since before I quit playing before and coming back hasn't made me fall back in love with it. It's not the players or the way the game is it's just how I feel about playing.

 

And yeah Wommby that was me that wanted Verby.

[Sedai]

But I like you playing jlm even before I left and cane baCk

[Kathleen]

I know that I've only played a handful of games, and until that last one I usually didn't make it too long into them (stupid NKing and RL) but for the most part I've really enjoyed the games.

 

My biggest gripe though has to be how people overuse/abuse the 'scum hunting techniques'. They take some really good tells and common techniques and totally over use them (incorrectly). Its almost like they have a list of scum tells to pick from then they go through the posts trying to make the post fit the criteria instead of reading the post and letting scummy stuff stand out. Things like being overly defensive. The main word there is overly. People take any sign of defense and call it 'overly defensive'.

 

Being over defensive is a good scum tell, but there is a difference in being rightfully defensive and being 'overly' so. From what I've seen its almost always the case that if you back down from your original thought you get called for having your scum plot found out and 'hiding'. If you defend your thoughts with any amount of detailed logic you get called for being overly defensive. Its like you have to give a crap reason to defend yourself or people claim your mafia and trying to cover for not fooling the town.

 

There is nothing wrong with town defending themselves, even if they aren't at l-1 when its too late. If you give a good solid reason for doing something, even if it isn't what the majority thinks, it doesn't mean your mafia. People say that they have seen games where they are, but to be honest in the games I've seen (which i admit is very few) I have seen more town die for defending themselves then any mafia.

 

This same idea goes for a number of other scum tells that seem to get miss used and pushed to the point that they aren't being used the way they are effective. Things like who started lynches and who hammered. Yes these things can tell you alot, but in context! How close to dead line was it? How was the person who died acting? If someone turns town but had people posting a lot of suspisious posts and everyone is saying they think they are scum then the hammer may not be a good place to look.

 

And one really big one that really is getting under my skin is the (non) use of day one. I know I'm new, but I hate hearing "day one is about being random and silly" "we'll get to the real scum hunting on day two'. Mods don't make day one longer in real life days to give you extra time to goof off. If day one was just about joking and saying 'kat's dog is pink, I vote kat' then 'hey did you guys see that new movie? this guys avatar reminds me of it'. Day one is longer because you have nothing to go on, its longer so you have more time to talk to each other and set up things to help you scum hunt. A little bit of joke voting/posting until everyone signs in is fun on day one and not a problem but after initially signing in the games would be so much better if people would just start playing. Talking about playing this game, and if your gonna talk about old games, say things that could be relevant to this game. Proper metagaming.

 

Saying things like "remember how we lyched kat in that last game..man she didn't see it coming..and she was the main character..i love that character'. That is not metagaming (thought i hear it called that a lot). Metagaming can be useful when you say things like "Last time Kat was scum she played really townie, but was a little over confident. This joke post after her first vote could mean she's confident again. I'll be watching her'.

 

On that same train of thought I hate how the first person to try to be serious about the game is always the first one people call out. Yes some times the mafia will want to get things going and lead a lynch on nothing, but someone has to start the scum hunting, and you know the way I think about it..mafia isn't going to want to start the town looking for them. How often do we go after the first ones to really try to play and how often do we lynch town on day one?

[Kivam]

I know that I've only played a handful of games, and until that last one I usually didn't make it too long into them (stupid NKing and RL) but for the most part I've really enjoyed the games.

 

My biggest gripe though has to be how people overuse/abuse the 'scum hunting techniques'. They take some really good tells and common techniques and totally over use them (incorrectly). Its almost like they have a list of scum tells to pick from then they go through the posts trying to make the post fit the criteria instead of reading the post and letting scummy stuff stand out. Things like being overly defensive. The main word there is overly. People take any sign of defense and call it 'overly defensive'.

 

Being over defensive is a good scum tell, but there is a difference in being rightfully defensive and being 'overly' so. From what I've seen its almost always the case that if you back down from your original thought you get called for having your scum plot found out and 'hiding'. If you defend your thoughts with any amount of detailed logic you get called for being overly defensive. Its like you have to give a crap reason to defend yourself or people claim your mafia and trying to cover for not fooling the town.

 

There is nothing wrong with town defending themselves, even if they aren't at l-1 when its too late. If you give a good solid reason for doing something, even if it isn't what the majority thinks, it doesn't mean your mafia. People say that they have seen games where they are, but to be honest in the games I've seen (which i admit is very few) I have seen more town die for defending themselves then any mafia.

 

This same idea goes for a number of other scum tells that seem to get miss used and pushed to the point that they aren't being used the way they are effective. Things like who started lynches and who hammered. Yes these things can tell you alot, but in context! How close to dead line was it? How was the person who died acting? If someone turns town but had people posting a lot of suspisious posts and everyone is saying they think they are scum then the hammer may not be a good place to look.

 

And one really big one that really is getting under my skin is the (non) use of day one. I know I'm new, but I hate hearing "day one is about being random and silly" "we'll get to the real scum hunting on day two'. Mods don't make day one longer in real life days to give you extra time to goof off. If day one was just about joking and saying 'kat's dog is pink, I vote kat' then 'hey did you guys see that new movie? this guys avatar reminds me of it'. Day one is longer because you have nothing to go on, its longer so you have more time to talk to each other and set up things to help you scum hunt. A little bit of joke voting/posting until everyone signs in is fun on day one and not a problem but after initially signing in the games would be so much better if people would just start playing. Talking about playing this game, and if your gonna talk about old games, say things that could be relevant to this game. Proper metagaming.

 

Saying things like "remember how we lyched kat in that last game..man she didn't see it coming..and she was the main character..i love that character'. That is not metagaming (thought i hear it called that a lot). Metagaming can be useful when you say things like "Last time Kat was scum she played really townie, but was a little over confident. This joke post after her first vote could mean she's confident again. I'll be watching her'.

 

On that same train of thought I hate how the first person to try to be serious about the game is always the first one people call out. Yes some times the mafia will want to get things going and lead a lynch on nothing, but someone has to start the scum hunting, and you know the way I think about it..mafia isn't going to want to start the town looking for them. How often do we go after the first ones to really try to play and how often do we lynch town on day one?

 

Misuse of Day 1 is a big problem. Ideally, you would get at least two lynch trains running on Day 1, so you can look at who was where, who they were pushing and defending, etc. The "joke around until deadline then random lynch" thing that's become the habit on DM is a pain. If you want to see a real Day 1 - in fact, if you want to see a game played the way it was meant to be played - watch the Game of Thrones game I'll be modding. It's an experimental game, so the mechanics will be a bit different - but watch the way the players play. It's mostly the JN crew plus some really good players from DM/MJ (Lanth, Mynd, Kast, Alys, the Dude, etc.) who can run with them.

 

If I can get mafia on DM back to that level of play, I'll be really happy.

[LilyElizabeth]

We were griping about inactive players, right? Well, Jack found a way to use one to his advantage. He claimed cop and then turned our inactive mafia member over as a "find." The moral of the story - if you're on a mafia team with Jack (and now me...) be active or you won't play long.

 

I'd like to see more outrageous plays from more players. Not just a handful of us. They are what makes the games fun. Yes, we are playing a game, and winning is nice, but having fun is the point, right?

[Verbal32]

Agreed, but there is a line. If you...say....lie about being a Cop as a roleless townie and then force the Doc to protect you, thereby opening them up for a NK......that is not responsible townie play.

 

Fun? Probably, for the liar. But not for the town if the Doc is NKed and then the real Cop is without backup when he/she gets guilty readings.

 

 

 

I'm playing Devil's Advocate for you here, Lily. You make bold plays that are still townie plays -- but other people don't necessarily do that, and while it can sometimes work out crazy good (like JVoR did last season on JN)....it can crash & burn (like Jack's attempt in his 1st JN game).

[LilyElizabeth]

Agreed. I didn't mean town plays, I guess. I like to see scum try to do more. One thing that frustrates me is how little people actually play on DM now. They post, but there's not as much content going on as there should be. That isn't really fun.