The Horn of Valere

[The Don]

So I just started re-reading the series and I'm back on TGH. I was thinking... when exactly was this made? More than likely the AoL, but Hawkwing says hes been called tons of times, and met as many Dragons, so his soul knows Rand/LTTs soul, and those that came before. But if it was made earlier... whats up with the Old Tongue scrolled on it? Why wasn't it used in the War of Power if those that made the Eye had it in their possession? Or did they?

[Elysium]

It is possible that a new horn is made each turning; maybe the high king wasn't referencing just this particular horn?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

or it is periodically refitted and re-ingraved, like a wedding ring.

[randsc]

Engh. It's a plot device, employed when Jordan didn't know if the series would continue. He needed an Item of Power for the hero quest.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

or hawkwing refers to the future as well as the past, as time is a wheel. or maybe he's called by another horn or another means in other ages.

 

are you getting a little jaded battling trolls, maybe? a little faith, a little trust. . .

[The Don]

I was thinking something along the lines of it getting re-made each turning. I think the re-fitting would work too. Maybe its the mouthpiece thats always there or something.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

it's the magical saliva on the reeds. . . um, eeew, sorry. i don't think that's even instrumentally accurate.

[Superhal]

It seems like just a MacGuffin, given how it is nearly useless in the series. Also, it seems like it is nearly forgotten given the huge build up of troops everywhere, and its needless requirement of being tied to the Dragon's personal battles.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

it seems like gabriel's horn.

[buckeyebull64]

I imagine Hawkwing's soul knows Rand's from TAR. As for why nobody at the eye used it, didn't all those who had made the eye die in it's making? And I imagine it did play a role in the war of power, it just wasn't the deciding factor for some reason, LTT was; just like it will play a role in TG, but Rand will be the deciding factor.

 

As far as the engraving...the engraving doesn't nessissarily have to happen at the same time as it's creation. perhaps it was engraved during the breaking by an AS who knew the prophisies would require people of the next age to be able to recognise it.

[Majsju]

I imagine Hawkwing's soul knows Rand's from TAR. As for why nobody at the eye used it, didn't all those who had made the eye die in it's making? And I imagine it did play a role in the war of power, it just wasn't the deciding factor for some reason, LTT was; just like it will play a role in TG, but Rand will be the deciding factor.

 

As far as the engraving...the engraving doesn't nessissarily have to happen at the same time as it's creation. perhaps it was engraved during the breaking by an AS who knew the prophisies would require people of the next age to be able to recognise it.

 

It was never used in the War of Power. Initially people did not believe it actually worked (RJ compared it to the lack of people making sacrifices to Zeus today), and soon after the war started it became lost, only to be found just in time to be sealed up at the Eye.

 

The engraving was made in the AOL, so not a part of the original design.

[jsbrads]

Hawkwing's statement is problematic to say the least, he may have known LTT while they both hung out in Tel'rhoid, but he could never have been called by the horn, it was under all that distilled saidin in the eye since before he was born, I still think he was added after Hawkwing died, that is why he looks like hawkwing and has a sword called justice. Birgitte was reborn many times since she was added to the wheel, but when she dies, he new face goes away and she reverts to Birgitte with a new set of memories. Maybe hawkwing was ugly and he chose to keep hawkwings face after that life cycle, but it doesn't make sense

[mb]

I recall from somewhere that the Horn came from the Age before Legends Age.

 

My guess would be that the creation of it contributed to the discovery of channeling; creation of Portal Stones being another that contributed to the discovery.

As for Old Tongue being inscribed on it; perhaps the Old Tongue came before the discovery of channeling.

[rand4747]

the horn is probably just a key, the heroes were already there and the horn was built to access them. It might not be the same way of accessing as in the past, perhaps another horn did or bagpipes, or a whooppie cushion. Or just a weave :P

[jsbrads]

Heros join the pattern when they earn it, they do not precede the pattern.

[NetSlider]

I tend to think that the Horn was made during creation itself. The properties of the Horn, the ability to call dead heroes to the physical form, is just too powerful to be made by any mortal we've seen or heard of. The closest thing that we saw to this is DO bringing back the dead forsaken. The creator on the other hand seems to be giving people the choice in everything - just like the Horn; after all, it will work for either side. Also the only other thing that somewhat resembles the Horn is the weave that protected callandor as it was specifically attuned to Rand's soul. So maybe it is possible to make weaves to have connections to specific soul, though again I think it's one thing to have it attuned to specific person and to bring non-physical entities to the real world from TAR.

[Tomp]

Is Mat still tied to the horn.

 

We haven't seen the horn for some time and much has happened.

[ZeshanHamdani]

Is Mat still tied to the horn.

 

We haven't seen the horn for some time and much has happened.

According to what i remember, Mat is not tied to the Horn anymore because he dies in rhuidean by the eel/ael finn.

some say it was when he dies attacking ravin in caemlyn but rand brought him back with balefire so it is as if he never died.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i think he only mostly dies in rhuidean.

[Hybrid]

cindy's right.

 

Tim Kington reports that, when asked how long Mat had hung from the Tree of Life in Rhuidean, RJ replied, "Long enough to be almost dead" (emphasis mine) [post-COT signing, Dayton, OH, January 16, 2004].

[Smittyphi]

"-It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.

-What's that?

-Go through his clothes and look for loose change."

 

Officially Mat has never died as Balefire reversed the would-be fatal bite of the dark hounds and Rahvin's lighting.

 

Oh, and name that movie.

[Smittyphi]

What would happen if the Horn of Valere was balefired?

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

 

the princess bride, but since i was referencing it, i guess it's not fair to guess.

 

 

 

i love that movie.

[FossMaNo1]

"-It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.

-What's that?

-Go through his clothes and look for loose change."

 

Officially Mat has never died as Balefire reversed the would-be fatal bite of the dark hounds and Rahvin's lighting.

 

Oh, and name that movie.

Billy Crystal as Miracle Max in the Princess Bride!

[Piulus]

There is something bothering my mind though.

 

Can a random soul who has somehow shown courage, wisdom, etc. defending the light be called after his death to form part of the heroes of the horn? Or the heroes will always be the same souls that incarnate now and then into the real world and then return to their place in TAL? And if you are tagged as a hero of the horn, will you always be a hero?