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Why are the Aes Sedai so poor in battle?


XXX
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Considering that they are the recipients of all the surviving knowledge about the OP from the AoL, how is it that of the 3 main groups of OP fighters, they are by far weakest compared to the Damane and the Ashaman? The Captain General of their battle Ajah,admitted that she had no idea about the weaves being used against them in the WT attack by the Damane. If this is the state of the Battle Ajah then we can only imagine what the other Ajah's are capable of.

 

Hopefully the Dragon has no plan to actually use them in the field during the LB.

Edited by XXX47
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I believe it has to do with the three oaths. We know Rashima Kerenmosa and the Green Ajah totally owned the Trolloc Wars, culminating with the Battle of Maighande. They were easily the deciding factor in saving the world from the shadow that time around. Sometime between then and the War of the Hundred Years they instituted the three oaths. With incursions from the shadow being fairly infrequent, I think those skills disappeared since they were very rarely used for battle against shadowspawn.

 

It is pretty unfair to compare them to damane whose only purpose for the most part is to wage war. The damane are great weapons but pretty hopeless at anything else. AS have far superior overall knowledge of weaves. Regardless I would be very surprised if the Green Ajah doesn't redeem themselves at TG and Rand will most def use them,he is going to need every channeler he can get his hands on.

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I believe it has to do with the three oaths. We know Rashima Kerenmosa and the Green Ajah totally owned the Trolloc Wars, culminating with the Battle of Maighande. They were easily the deciding factor in saving the world from the shadow that time around. Sometime between then and the War of the Hundred Years they instituted the three oaths. With incursions from the shadow being fairly infrequent, I think those skills disappeared since they were very rarely used for battle against shadowspawn.

 

It is pretty unfair to compare them to damane whose only purpose for the most part is to wage war. The damane are great weapons but pretty hopeless at anything else. AS have far superior overall knowledge of weaves. Regardless I would be very surprised if the Green Ajah doesn't redeem themselves at TG and Rand will most def use them,he is going to need every channeler he can get his hands on.

 

 

Then Egwene's insistence on keeping the 3 oaths looks even more stupid..what is the use of all the fancy weaves when you have to fight trollocs etc.

 

I say the Ashaman are the most awesome of the fighters..they literally tear their enemies inside out blasting them to pieces, the damane would come second.

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according to the rand's battles aganst the seanchan in illian (forget the book) where the asha'man battled damane, they are fairly equal. the asha'man are more powerful but the damane are more experienced.

 

the aes sedai have literally seen NO fighting n the past thousand years. the trollocs never came down in force, and they could not interfere with man-on-man wars, so they had no chance to fight, other than the occasional sister battling shadowspawn with the borderlands. the aes sedai know only two combat weaves now- fireballs and lightning.

 

when the seanchan launched the raid, they were unprepared, scared, and confused, fighting an enemy they didnt really believe in and considering none had ever seen battle before.... you cannot imagine it going well for them by any stretch ofthe imagination.

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Then Egwene's insistence on keeping the 3 oaths looks even more stupid..what is the use of all the fancy weaves when you have to fight trollocs etc.

Not been reading up on the oaths?

 

* To speak no word that is not true

* To make no weapon with which one man may kill another

* Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai

 

They can smash anyone who they know or think they know is a darkfriend to smitherens, and considering this will be a Light vs Dark battle, they can kill pretty much anyone.

I mean, we see Elaida almost kill Egwene because she actually believed that Egwene was a darkfriend, or the oaths would have prevented her from doing it.

EDIT: Well, yes she could have assumed it was not a weapon to use the One Power to lash someone bloody, but hey.

 

I mean, theoreticly, they could make weapons that only women can use, thus making no weapon with which a man can kill another man.

There were some sisters who, by intentionally putting themselves in harms way, were able to attack (Think it was when errin defended the Two Rivers against the Whitecloaks).

Edited by Ferdawoon
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according to the rand's battles aganst the seanchan in illian (forget the book) where the asha'man battled damane, they are fairly equal. the asha'man are more powerful but the damane are more experienced.

 

the aes sedai have literally seen NO fighting n the past thousand years. the trollocs never came down in force, and they could not interfere with man-on-man wars, so they had no chance to fight, other than the occasional sister battling shadowspawn with the borderlands. the aes sedai know only two combat weaves now- fireballs and lightning.

 

when the seanchan launched the raid, they were unprepared, scared, and confused, fighting an enemy they didnt really believe in and considering none had ever seen battle before.... you cannot imagine it going well for them by any stretch ofthe imagination.

 

 

So pretty useless with the LB now just months away..no time to learn anything new even if the "great" Aes Sedai will admit that they know absolutely nothing about fighting.

 

Maybe Rand can use Egwene and her coterie as healers well behind the frontlines where the useful Aes Sedai like Cads,Moriane,Nynaeve etc along with the Ashaman and hopefully the Damane engage the enemy.

 

The Ashaman have a great advantage over the Damane..the damane cannot link due to the adam and so cannot counter the men's superior strength in the OP. So in an all out battle the result will be the same if an army of men and an army of women went at it hand to hand. The Illian battle was a skirmish with hardly 12 Ashaman taking part against large nos of Damane.

Edited by XXX47
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Then Egwene's insistence on keeping the 3 oaths looks even more stupid..what is the use of all the fancy weaves when you have to fight trollocs etc.

Not been reading up on the oaths?

 

* To speak no word that is not true

* To make no weapon with which one man may kill another

* Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder or another Aes Sedai

 

They can smash anyone who they know or think they know is a darkfriend to smitherens, and considering this will be a Light vs Dark battle, they can kill pretty much anyone.

I mean, we see Elaida almost kill Egwene because she actually believed that Egwene was a darkfriend, or the oaths would have prevented her from doing it.

EDIT: Well, yes she could have assumed it was not a weapon to use the One Power to lash someone bloody, but hey.

 

 

In 13 books they have shown a very poor account of their fighting abilities...other than some individual engagements.

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I think the Aes Sedai are just somewhat unimaginative. I mean fireballs? Come on... Asha'man have style. But then Taim is newly experienced in battle, and lord knows what else he's done (depending on the Taim theory you subscribe to).

 

It's probably like comparing an "elite" borderland fighting force to an "elite" force like Illian's Companions. Borderlanders would probably make them look like children with wooden sticks on ponies because all they do is fight.

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From most battles in the series that Aes Sedia fought in, I would say that they are somewhat good at battle.

 

Though their Oaths and seldom being around battle are side-backs.

 

I imagine they would be good at battle during Tarmon Gaidon.

 

 

Their manners after battle to me make them better in general than other fighting groups; ie, Healing the wounded.

Those manners I consider more important than fighting skills.

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Their manners after battle to me make them better in general than other fighting groups; ie, Healing the wounded.

Those manners I consider more important than fighting skills.

 

Not every useful if you do not actually win.

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Hmmm- good question. I imagine the three Oaths play a part- I mean, the group we see doing regular battle with the Shadowspawn in the series are the Borderlanders, not the Green Ajah. Honestly, I would have thought they'd send the Green Ajah up there to hone their skills. Perhaps because the Green Ajah don't see regular battle, they prefer to spend their time learning other, more regularly used weaves, or more complicated weaves. Perhaps they're too busy playing politics to truly practice. Perhaps their 3rd Oath somehow hinders their ability to practice offensive weaves without Shadowspawn attacking them (I think this unlikely, as they don't need to aim the weaves at anyone, thus using it as a weapon, simply to practice making the weaves).

 

Of course, as has been pointed out, during the Last Battle, they will be fighting mostly, if not exclusively, those who side with the Dark One, and they will be able to attack with ease, this will prove little use if they do not have the fighting skills to use when the time comes. Bear in mind during the Seanchan attack, the most effective channelers and organisers were a girl who had never formally been raised to any Ajah, and a Brown. The head of the Green Ajah? Bugger all use, as I recall.

 

That's not to say the AS will be useless in battle. We have seen individual AS from all Ajahs prove useful and intelligent in battles. We have seen them link with each other, and Asha'man to increase the power at their disposal- if they link with Wise Ones, Asha'man, Windfinders, Kin, former damane, etc. then those who are better equipped to fight, and know more weaves, can use these weaves to much greater effects. They have Warders, who are usually fairly formidable warriors, granted more stamina, etc. by their Warder bonds, who will probably prove useful in the battle. They have a whole Ajah of dedicated Healers, and at the very least, seem to know a reasonable amount about healing weaves. In other words, as support, to warriors and other channelers, the AS could prove very useful indeed. But from what we've seen, their Battle Ajah, their frontliners, in other words, are less prepared than they might be. We'll see if they redeem themselves at the Last Battle.

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They're not trained for battle. Since they can't attack unless they're lives are literally in danger, they're not taught deathweaves.

 

They could have practiced on the Shadowspawn that were constantly raiding the Borderlands and carrying off people to have their souls hammered into a Myrdraal blade. The problem is that after the Trolloc Wars their entire Ajah seems to have gone into retirement.

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Their manners after battle to me make them better in general than other fighting groups; ie, Healing the wounded.

Those manners I consider more important than fighting skills.

Not every useful if you do not actually win.
Victory or defeat (and in between) to me does not matter. Healing I consider useful in any situation (when there is anything to be Healed).

And winning/loosing can at times be vague for either side (or for both sides) in various battles/etc.

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Just because you don't have anything to kill doesn't mean you cannot even practice. WT is perfect example of fading power. Once a mighty force is now reduced to bickering. Moiraine found Nynaeve and Eqwene by accident! Goes to show why WT cannot fight.

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I think the Aes Sedai are just somewhat unimaginative. I mean fireballs? Come on... Asha'man have style.

Definitely. At Dumai's Wells, my jaw dropped at the weaves the Asha'man were doing because none of the "good guy" (*cough* *cough*) organizations thus far had shown any outward sign of kick-assery like they did there, as the Aes Sedai were just throwing fireballs and lightning in any prior engagement (except when Moiraine balefired Be'lal).

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That's not to say the AS will be useless in battle. We have seen individual AS from all Ajahs prove useful and intelligent in battles. We have seen them link with each other, and Asha'man to increase the power at their disposal- if they link with Wise Ones, Asha'man, Windfinders, Kin, former damane, etc. then those who are better equipped to fight, and know more weaves, can use these weaves to much greater effects.

 

Speaking of battles I am rereading ToM right now and I found it very odd that the AS with Ituralde's army outside Maradon were not mentioned at all in the fighting. Things were pretty dire before Yoeli pulled them inside the city. You would think all channelers would have been utilized but they only get a brief nod as helping with the healing.

Edited by Suttree
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just thoguht I would say that Alivia could teach the AS deathweaves. it has been said that 'she must know every way to kill something'

 

Actually, that could be an excellent scene. The "wilder" demonstrating to all the Aes Sedai how exactly you should go about killing things. Even better if it's during an actual battle against the Shadow.

Edited by Ala Rubra
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Thy're politicians and sometimes scholars, not really fighters. They probably don't bother to train to fight, since they don't normally engage in battle anyways. Plus, they've got the three oaths to prevent them from attacking anyone with the One Power unless they're in danger, so they wouldn't be able to practise offensive weaves much.

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After reading the OP I am struck with an urge to rant.

 

The Aes Sedai have not received the full knowledge of the Aes Sedai from the Age of Legends. That has pretty much been a massive thing about them all this time. Only now are people starting to make some real discoveries again, some of which were not known even in the AoL. So I dont see what the big deal is there.

 

Secondly, its not like the Green Ajah have a load of experience fighting other channelers. The damane, on the other hand, have a potential part in any major conflict in Seanchan, which means a lot of battles will have been channeler vs channeler. Possibly not on the scale the Ashaman can put out, but then again the Ashaman are less than two years old so it could go either way.

 

Lastly, the Green Ajah dont rely entirely on offensive weaves, Warders are every bit as much of the equation. Being of the Battle Ajah isnt just about blasting your opponent any more than being a good soldier isnt just about being able to handle a weapon. Its about tactics, and battle strategy, and people management. If you want a good example of Green Ajah, look at the defensive setup Cadsuane organized for the Cleansing.

 

/end of rant

Edited by Drekka Mort
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I think the Aes Sedai are just somewhat unimaginative. I mean fireballs?

Not to mention that women are generally stronger with Air and Water, and will tire themselves out faster when they use Fire and Earth. Teslyn and Joline were exhausted after throwing only a handful of fireballs at the Seanchan. They should be looking into Air-based weaves instead like Lanfear's razor-thin flow of Air that she used to decapitate that Darkfriend in WH.

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just thoguht I would say that Alivia could teach the AS deathweaves. it has been said that 'she must know every way to kill something'

 

Actually, that could be an excellent scene. The "wilder" demonstrating to all the Aes Sedai how exactly you should go about killing things. Even better if it's during an actual battle against the Shadow.

 

The deathweaves can only be used against shadowspawn...I thought the Seachan had never even see trollocs etc so I doubt Alivia will know the specialized shadow killing weaves.

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