What you dislike most about the series?

[Suttree]

Can't tell if you are being sarcastic but considering Min is going to figure how to seal away the DO based on Herid Fel's hints and books I would say it was pretty important.

 

I may not have gotten that far in the series. I'm remembering the whole walk through the school and the (namesss...) proprietress introducing him to various people (who, of course... all have names)... Random talks with Fel..

 

The only tidbit I know from all that is a random indecipherable thought scrawled on a piece of paper, which.. we could have gotten without delving into the character.

 

We know that he verified Rand's thoughts on what the finns said about how to clean Saidin.

 

tPoD

"sound principles, in both high philosophy and natural philosophy."

 

He then gave him the note I added to the above post about sealing the DO. We know Min has been studying his books and in ToM Rand says amongst other things...

 

ToM

You have to to find out how. I can not seal the bore the way I tried last time. I'm missing something, something vital. Find it for me."

 

Fel was clearly on the right track in terms of fixing the seals, and had a better understanding than anyone on the nature of the wheel.

 

"Someone had to make it sometime. For the first time, that is. Unless you think the Creator made the Dark One's Prison with a hole and patch to begin." His eyebrows waggled at the suggestion. "No, it was whole in the beginning, and I think it will be whole again when the Third Age comes once more. Hmmm. I wonder if they called it the Third Age." He hastily dipped a pen and scribbled a note in the margins of an open book. "Umph. No matter now. I'm not saying the Dragon Reborn will be the one to make it whole, not in this Age necessarily anyway, but it must be so before the Third Age comes again, and enough time passed since it was made whole - an Age, at least - that no one remembers the Dark One or his Prison. No one remembers.Um. I wonder..."

 

The Shadow knew he was making headway in figuring it out and had him killed.

[Grishnak01]

Ack! Closes eyes.. SPOILERS SPOILERS!!

 

I just finished reading Crown of Swords.

[Suttree]

Ack! Closes eyes.. SPOILERS SPOILERS!!

 

I just finished reading Crown of Swords.

 

Sorry mate, apologies but this board isn't spoiler free. I would suggest the structured forum if you want to avoid...

[Grishnak01]

All good my good man. I can glance and NOT read.. if you take my meaning. Please don't take my tomfoolery as admonishment.

[Ace Sedai]

Can I just say that despite the large amounts of issues with the series{I agree with a fair number mentioned in this post},it's still a fantastic read.All these people logging on to a website is testament to RJ's genius.

With that said my 'issues' ;

-Gender

-Race

-Thom being marginalized.

-The seanchan as a whole being poorly written{all they want to do is collar woman,plot against each other,grovel to the empress and claim territory?}

-The forsaken being wussies.

-Padding.

[Elan Tedronai]

apart from having a series where the bad guys are just so useless, i have never come across a series in where the main character is just so unlikeable and unrelatable.

 

may be tanis half eleven spoiled me but rand al thor is a poor poor main character.

[brujah]

apart from having a series where the bad guys are just so useless, i have never come across a series in where the main character is just so unlikeable and unrelatable.

 

may be tanis half eleven spoiled me but rand al thor is a poor poor main character.

 

Well of course if you like Tanis Half-Elven as a main character, then youre NOT gonna like Rand as a main character. Tanis is the stereotypical "good guy with honor."

 

But in my opinion, there's way too many "Tanis Half-evlen" characters. You could swap Tanis with Aragorn from LotR.

 

Its not Rands "likeability", I think it's his originality. I think Rand was a more likeable character in the first half of the books, but as the story progresses, he becomes more "unlikable." And this to me, is also realistic. A man having to go through what he goes through would more than likely succomb to the pressure and develop some very bad character flaws along the way. I'ts brilliant, actually.

 

But if WoT is the first series you read, then no. Youd want a Tanis Half-Elven definately. But once youve read 15 different books and the main characters all seem too much alike, you welcome Rand. I think its about timing. Timing in the age you are when you read, and the order in which you happen to read certain books.

[Hopefire]

My biggest complaint is that the plot slowed down after A Crown of Swords. It isn't to say nothing happened, but in comparison to the first half of the series there was very little forward movement. The primary reason for that is Rand generally slowing down and becoming more crazy and paranoid, doing much less poking of the world with a stick. I wouldn't mind so much, but we saw so much less of Rand as he went crazy; I'm guessing that Jordan felt uncomfortable in Rand's head, and so didn't write so much of him.

[Elan Tedronai]

brujah,

 

tanis had flaws too and made a number of mistakes throughout his time in the books. But tanis was relatable. whether in his young days or as a leader. You knew understood his decisions and his motives. Even the mistakes he has done you tend to look at sympatheically.

 

Rand on the other hand reminds me about my old captain in the footie team. You followed him because you had to. Not because you wanted to.

[brujah]

hopefire,

 

tanis had flaws too and made a number of mistakes throughout his time in the books. But tanis was relatable. whether in his young days or as a leader. You knew understood his decisions and his motives. Even the mistakes he has done you tend to look at sympatheically.

 

Rand on the other hand reminds me about my old captain in the footie team. You followed him because you had to. Not because you wanted to.

 

Well answer me this. Who in real life would you say Tanis reminded you of? Do you know anyone in real life that you could so closely relate Tanis's character to as you just did with Rand? I think you actually helped make my point.

 

Rands character, in my opinion, seems reailistic(given his unrealistic setting). You yourself said you can relate Rand to this former captain of the football team. Thats pretty much what Im saying. He's realistic, and original. Most people wouldnt name the captain of their football team as there first choice for a Hero. But Jordan chose to do so. And brilliantly done.

 

Also, I dont want you to take anything Im saying as critisism. I completely understand what you're saying. I'm just trying to give you another angle to look at as to why Jordan chose to make Rand the way he did. I think Jordan likes a fundamental realism in his characters, even given the unreal environment they exist in.

 

I think this is also evident in the many posts in this thread about sexism, gender, etc. I'd dare not refute such claims, but I dont think its as bold as many of you suggest. You guys wouldnt see men and women the way they see each other in the book, yes. But assume you have the Power some of these people do. Not just political power, but TRUE POWER. The ability to be completely omnipotent given 99 percent of your situtions. Add to that, the fact that many of these people also happen to be EXTREMELY attractive, AND in some instances (Aes Sedai, women channelers) UNAGING. Somewhat immortal. I'd wager that if all of you woke up tomorow, in your new over-the-top EXTREMELY fit and attractive bodies, combined with a newfound sense of immortality and unequivical power, you'd all act damn near close to what Jordan has pegged you guys for.

 

I think the mans a genius, and has this all thought out extremely well.

[Elan Tedronai]

hopefire,

 

tanis had flaws too and made a number of mistakes throughout his time in the books. But tanis was relatable. whether in his young days or as a leader. You knew understood his decisions and his motives. Even the mistakes he has done you tend to look at sympatheically.

 

Rand on the other hand reminds me about my old captain in the footie team. You followed him because you had to. Not because you wanted to.

 

Well answer me this. Who in real life would you say Tanis reminded you of? Do you know anyone in real life that you could so closely relate Tanis's character to as you just did with Rand? I think you actually helped make my point.

 

Rands character, in my opinion, seems reailistic(given his unrealistic setting). You yourself said you can relate Rand to this former captain of the football team. Thats pretty much what Im saying. He's realistic, and original. Most people wouldnt name the captain of their football team as there first choice for a Hero. But Jordan chose to do so. And brilliantly done.

 

Also, I dont want you to take anything Im saying as critisism. I completely understand what you're saying. I'm just trying to give you another angle to look at as to why Jordan chose to make Rand the way he did. I think Jordan likes a fundamental realism in his characters, even given the unreal environment they exist in.

 

I think this is also evident in the many posts in this thread about sexism, gender, etc. I'd dare not refute such claims, but I dont think its as bold as many of you suggest. You guys wouldnt see men and women the way they see each other in the book, yes. But assume you have the Power some of these people do. Not just political power, but TRUE POWER. The ability to be completely omnipotent given 99 percent of your situtions. Add to that, the fact that many of these people also happen to be EXTREMELY attractive, AND in some instances (Aes Sedai, women channelers) UNAGING. Somewhat immortal. I'd wager that if all of you woke up tomorow, in your new over-the-top EXTREMELY fit and attractive bodies, combined with a newfound sense of immortality and unequivical power, you'd all act damn near close to what Jordan has pegged you guys for.

 

I think the mans a genius, and has this all thought out extremely well.

 

sorry i meant the earlier post for you and not hopefire

 

my current boss is like tanis although she's a woman. I would follow her to hell and back. Rand is not someone you would want to follow willingly. At least that's what i feel. There's nothing engaging, warm, thoughtful, understanding or empathic about him. You say it's realistic but people like tanis also exist in the real world. case in point my boss. when you compare her to my footie captain you see the difference between people who have power in their hands. one abuses it and the other does not.

[damandred]

Rands likable enough concidering he's walking around in constant pain all the time. I think only in TGS was he calous and unlikable. As for Tanis (no offence) but for me he was sooo boring. Raistlin was my fav in that series.

[EpitomyofShyness]

I think this is also evident in the many posts in this thread about sexism, gender, etc. I'd dare not refute such claims, but I dont think its as bold as many of you suggest. You guys wouldnt see men and women the way they see each other in the book, yes. But assume you have the Power some of these people do. Not just political power, but TRUE POWER. The ability to be completely omnipotent given 99 percent of your situtions. Add to that, the fact that many of these people also happen to be EXTREMELY attractive, AND in some instances (Aes Sedai, women channelers) UNAGING. Somewhat immortal. I'd wager that if all of you woke up tomorow, in your new over-the-top EXTREMELY fit and attractive bodies, combined with a newfound sense of immortality and unequivical power, you'd all act damn near close to what Jordan has pegged you guys for.

 

I think the mans a genius, and has this all thought out extremely well.

 

This is actually a really good point and something I hadn't thought of before. Doesn't make me any less annoyed by the arrogance many of the characters display, but does explain it.

 

sorry i meant the earlier post for you and not hopefire

 

my current boss is like tanis although she's a woman. I would follow her to hell and back. Rand is not someone you would want to follow willingly. At least that's what i feel. There's nothing engaging, warm, thoughtful, understanding or empathic about him. You say it's realistic but people like tanis also exist in the real world. case in point my boss. when you compare her to my footie captain you see the difference between people who have power in their hands. one abuses it and the other does not.

 

I agree, there are people who use and abuse power in the world like your football captain, and people like your boss who don't. However, from my personal experience the former is far more common. I've found that the people in power are most likely to abuse it, second most likely to do nothing with it, and lastly will actually do what is right. Just my own personal experiences.

[brujah]

[sorry i meant the earlier post for you and not hopefire

 

my current boss is like tanis although she's a woman. I would follow her to hell and back. Rand is not someone you would want to follow willingly. At least that's what i feel. There's nothing engaging, warm, thoughtful, understanding or empathic about him. You say it's realistic but people like tanis also exist in the real world. case in point my boss. when you compare her to my footie captain you see the difference between people who have power in their hands. one abuses it and the other does not.

 

Yeah I see what you're saying, now. You're saying you want your hero to be a more likable , nice guy. Nothing wrong with that. It's just that, and I think many would agree, the Tanis type Hero is what a hero was for us when we all started reading the genre. He's like the first stepping stone for Heros. Tanis for me, was what a hero should be when I was a teenager. And I'm NOT saying that is your case. In fact it speaks to your own character in life to be able to value a guy like Tanis. And I enjoy books with such heros as well. But I also like the twist on things that Jordan used with Rand. After being so use to the cut and dry hero of the LotRs era, Rand was quite refreshing. And I also found myself, as I grew older, much preferring the realism of inner turmoil that Jordan used with Rand, and his other characters.

 

My first, FAVORITE Hero was Drizzt Do'urden. He's definately a Tanis-like character. And many of the things I've said about inner turmoil would DEFINATELY apply to Drizzt, but hes just not on the same level as Rand. Rand has much more depth, and is much more believable. I just drifted away from these guys as I kept reading, and as I got older.

 

But Jordan doesnt leave the Good-Guy Hero element completely out. He still puts those guys in the story as well. I'm quite sure you can find your Tanis Hero amongst at least one of the other characters in the book. Maybe Lan. Maybe not. Galad, Gawayne, etc...

 

Or maybe its just the harsh realities of life that you live through and learn of as the time passes. The Heros of yesterday just cant cut it for me anymore. The real worlds full of dark, terrible moments in itself. I think you have to live and face things for yourself to truely understand and appreciate a complex character such as Rand.

 

Then again you also have to consider that I prefer the dark side of the force. And if I was to be cast into The Wheel of Time, I'd more than likely be one of the Forsaken. Not any in particular, just one of those who walked outside The Light.

 

 

 

Rands likable enough concidering he's walking around in constant pain all the time. I think only in TGS was he calous and unlikable. As for Tanis (no offence) but for me he was sooo boring. Raistlin was my fav in that series.

 

This^

 

And Raistlin is the true genius character of the Dragonlance series. He's far more original than the others, which was hard to accomplish given the whole frail wizard sterotype. I'd much prefer to have Raistlin as the Hero of the series than Tanis. Hard considering Raistlin is also the Villain half the time. But still a damn nice character and storyline.

[brujah]

I'll add something of my own that I'm not liking about Book 11, Knife of Dreams. Perhaps it doesnt cover the entire series, but its fresh in my mind having just read it.

 

I've just read the part where Rand has had his hand blown off by Sermihage. These scenes where two or more powerful characters confront each other, are definately some of my favorites. And it doesnt always have to be actual violence or battle. But many types of confrontations. And given that Jordan describes everything with great patience, and even greater detail, I was surprised, and annoyed, at how short this scene was. Rand and his band of some of the most powerful men and women in the world just march up, and Rand loses his hand "BLOCKING" a fireball. They very easily subdue one of the Forsaken, whom is suppose to be one of the most powerful villains in the world. And this happens while she's assisted by other damane.

 

Now I can get the part of how Rand would be able to win against her, considering I did just say he was assisted by very powerful allies, but it seemed to short. I was kind of unsatisfied. But then again perhaps Jordan wanted realism, and this was as real as it would have gotten.

 

But I really dont like the way Rand approaches the scene, and sees "someone" that would fit the description of The Daughter of the Nine Moons, and feels any relief at this at all. Seems to be he'd be much more wary, and if he thought that this could be a trap, and he does think it could be, he'd also be smart enough to know that person could have been anyone. Even if it wasnt just an illusion. It could literally been anyone.

 

Sermihage, having lived as long as she had, seems like she would have chosen a better or different situation than she did. I dont like that she thought she was gonna be able to take Rand out with one shot if she was fast enough. Even if she had, she should have known she would have died soon after, unless that was her plan. But the Forsaken are selfish, and I dont think she would die for any cause. And I guess she did have her own backup with the sul'damane and damane, but they werent even aware of what was happening really, and were very ineffective.

 

I guess overall Im just a little letdown by this scene, because I was actually really excited as it was approaching. I mean you know its some sort of trap, because Tuon is still with Mat. And you have Rand, Logain, Nynaeve, and Cadsuane. Just these four could really do some damage, but then you have the others as well. So here are our very powerful heroes marching towards and obvious showdown, and BAM. It happens too fast, and I didnt really like the scenario. Doesnt seem quite characteristic of Sermihage or Rand. I'd have thought they, being wary of a trap, would have at least had some type of shield up against projectiles. And Im assuming the illusion was wavering because of either Rand being tav'ern or because of perhaps some sort of angreal of Cadsuanes'.

 

It took 5 pages to describe Elayne getting dressed, and having dinner. But it took two paragraphs for what could have been an amazing battle.

 

The scene where the Darkfriends kidnap Elaybe is cool, and I really like how Vandene manages to put a knife into that one Aes Sedai who betrays them. And the rescue scene was amazing on one side. The people sworn to Elayne slowly moving in on the Black Sisters whilst taking heavy damage from the One Power was a nicely done scene. But then again the way the Windfinders took them out only took one sentence. BAM. And "down goes Fraizer." Asne goes down, and its over in one second, and with VERY LITTLE prose.

 

I'm not gonna be the one to doubt Jordan's genius, perhaps he does it this way so that we're not inundated with violence. But thats my gripe for tonight.

[Monetherian]

What I dislike most about the series is how stupidity is consistently used as a plot device(pile driver) to prolong the pain that in truth The Wheel Of Time is.

 

The only character that I found bearable(not to stupid) was Lan and that's just sad since Lan is a secondary character.