Ages, as in 'being x years old'

[Arc]

I dunno about all of you, but when reading, especially fantasy with a lot of characters who's ages aren't often clearly mentioned, I tend to give my imagination free rein and not minding ages except for thoughts like: 'his old' or 'she's young to very young' etc. So I stumbled upon the Age-page of the Thriteenth depository the other day, and curious as I was I scrolled down and had some real shocking experiences. Here are a few:

 

First of all (As I stated on another topic) Lan is only 47, and not amidst his 50's or 60's as many seem to believe. Quite a suprise for me to.

 

Furthermore Logain and Mazrim turned out to be only (figuratively) youngsters, respectively being 28 and 27-29. My misconception might be based on the fact that they both wield great amounts of power, which could easily lead to categorizing them as 'older' or something like that, don't know really.

 

Galad seems to be in his thirties, quite mature and not as close to Gawyn and the other heroes as I thought.

 

Tuon's only 16-17?!... I understand now why Mat thought he kidnapped a child. The same goes for Faile who turned out as being under 18 for the first half of the series.

 

I knew Egwene was around 19 years old and yeah she's clever, strong, etc etc. but she still outsmarted a whole lot of womem mostly decades older than herself... well she is a main protagonist I supose.

 

Elayne = 18 and quite the powerhouse as well. I know there've been numerous bashings about Elaynes rash actions, but such (stupid) deeds which always inevitably lead to being in danger, being kidnapped, or taking a bath do fit her age, being tutored from bird or no.

 

Just wanted to share this epiphany with you all, and I wonder if people have had similar or very different views about the Characters age, looks,... or wathever your imagination makes of them.

I figured a topic to discuss everthing concerning ages and such might be something that was still missing around here, so discuss all you like.

[Jon Paul]

Galad is only a couple of years older than Rand, around the same age of Nyn'. Mid-twenties. Egwene's still shy of 19 I'm sure. Faile is really young. I believe she was younger when she was introduced than Egwene was.

[David Selig]

Tuon is 19 IIRC. Galad is 28-29 - Tigraine went to the Aiel Waste in 972 NE, and he was already born then, but was an infant. The current year is 1000 NE.

 

Anyway, I got to say that the people in Randland are sure lucky it's all fiction, because let's face it, if in the real world humanity had to face a major and decisive battle with the forces of the Evil and the most powerful human leaders had the average age of 20, we'd have been doomed. ;)

[Jon Paul]

Galad is 28-29 - Tigraine went to the Aiel Waste in 972 NE, and he was already born then, but was an infant.

 

He was a baby when Tigraine left. At most he's only three years older than Rand.

[Arc]

@David and Jon

 

Galad Damodred - b. 968-970 NE, 30-2

He was born prior to Tigraine’s disappearance in 972 NE (The Eye of the World, Glossary) and described as a young man in The Eye of the World, The Web Tightens. He was a child when Tigraine left in 972 NE and is too old to be Morgase’s son (A Crown of Swords, Irrevocable Words). Morgase is 43, so Galad is probably 30-32. He was probably about 2-4 when Tigraine left. (source: 13th-D)

 

It's a little fishy going on only 2 quotes from the books i know, but the logic is good.

 

Then there is the WoT wiki:

 

As a young boy, he is trained by Gareth Bryne and Henre Haslin with the sword. In this time period, he saves Gawyn's life a number of times, who is six years his junior.

 

The wiki also says Gawyn is 22, but I can't find a book quote that confirmes this, the 13th-dep. states his age might vary between 22 and 25.

[Jon Paul]

Okay I re-read my UK paperback of The Shadow Rising. I had misremembered that Amys described Galad as a child and not a baby. So lets say he was two or three when she left. She spent one year training to be a Maiden and fell pregnant in the third Year of the Aiel War. So I was wrong. It seems like late-twenties is a more accurate point for Galad's age. He's at the least five years older than Rand, likely six or seven.

[francy]

Tuon is 19 IIRC. Galad is 28-29 - Tigraine went to the Aiel Waste in 972 NE, and he was already born then, but was an infant. The current year is 1000 NE.

 

Anyway, I got to say that the people in Randland are sure lucky it's all fiction, because let's face it, if in the real world humanity had to face a major and decisive battle with the forces of the Evil and the most powerful human leaders had the average age of 20, we'd have been doomed. ;)

 

Although, most of the soldiers in WW1 and WW2 where as young as 16. Not sure about the commanders, maybe they were older - but the soldiers where pretty damn young... Having said that, I wouldn't want to trust my future wellbeing during the last battle to a 20 year old Egwene! No matter how mature and smart and outwitting she is!

 

:-)

 

And Rand isn't in his early 20's any more, he claims his life as LTT now, so he is closer to 420...

[Stitch]

Pretty simple really... to appeal to a wider audience (as in young teens to say middle age) Jordan and Sanderson either intentionally or unintentionally chose younger people to portray, either because they felt it easier to write about or easier for their audience to relate to... In reality, Elayne rules because her mother was thought dead / abdicated, Fortuona because her entire family was killed, Egwene because she was elected as a figurehead, as was Amathera, Berelain's circumstances are largely unknown, Tenobia likewise (though unlike Berelain, her youth is often counted against her by her peers) and of course, Rand because he is the dragon reborn.

 

So generally yes, all young rulers, most for extenuating circumstances and most (with the exception of Fortuona and possibly Rand through LTT) with little experience...

[SylvanFox]

Mat also has some pretty good stuff packed into his head. He has the experience of many, many men. That's how he is so successful with the Band of the Red Hand. He doesn't rule any nations, but being in charge of an army would normally not be the job for a 20something.

[Stitch]

Actually, many of the radically successful armies were led by young men, charismatic (often mad) and skillful, often their forces had the advantage of new technology or a new approach to warfare (sometimes inherited from their forebears)... Alexander the Great is the most obvious example of one such (and there is significant overlap between the outfitting of the armies of AtG and the Band)

[USURP888]

Although the age of the characters are pretty close around 18 - 29, there are varying degrees of experience or wisdom if you will among them. I would feel more secure in the leadership of Berelain than I do with the leadership of Nynaeve or Aviendha.

 

 

Berelain

- among the young leaders she has the best credential, being a true leader of her nation and though not said, surely to have been trained for it since birth.

- was made into the steward of Cairhein and was getting approval from the Aiel WO as a good administrator.

 

Tuon, Elayne, Faile:

- has been trained to be a Queen since childbirth, giving them at least 15 years to prepare for leadership

- tuon has the added incentive to learn quickly because of the threat of assassinations.

 

 

Galad/Gawyn

- has been trained since early childhood for combat, but to be sure they have received leadership training as well.

- Galad has at least 20 years of study

- Gawyn about 15 years or so.

 

 

Rand / Mat / Perrin:

- ignorant farmers, no training at all. Thank god for Ta'veren otherwise this would be a newspaper article rather than a 14 book series

- Rand has been put to the crucible and forced to learn quickly. Counting real life command experience and tutelage from Moiraine could not have been more than 3 years. Also trained by Lan and Rhuarc in fighting.

- Mat has no real training but he's got a 1000 years from a 1000 soldiers experience in his brain.

- Perrin relies on Faile and leads by "common sense" as he puts it. He's got the least experience in leadership amongst the 3 ta'veren but he's the most suited to it imo.

 

 

Egwene

- Wise One trained for 6 months to a year? can't be more than that.

- has limited novice / accepted training from the WT.

- has been taught by Siuan since becoming the Amyrlin.

 

Nynaeve

- wisdom apprenticehip and being the village's wisdom.

- limited accepted training and no real novice training

- wilder, self-taught channeling though unknown to her at the time.

 

Aviendha

- a Maiden of the Spear

- has the same training with the wise ones as Egwene

 

edit: added another thing about berelain

[Stitch]

I agree, though I personally think Berelain is probably the best in terms of foreign affairs (due to being the queen of a small nation with a large nation on her heels), Fortuona probably is better at managing the internal machinations of a complex body like the Seanchan (which would be something akin to a more rule bound version of Cairhien's game of houses) while Elayne or Faile would have been treated to deal with a more cooperative sort of domestic scene in an environment without real aggression from their neighbours (excluding the blight for Saldea of course) so they are probably better suited to administration.

[WhiskyJack]

Many real life leaders were quite young including Alexander and Hannibal.

[randsc]

This series is young adult fiction. I know that is easy to forget, since it took so long to finish that original fans are now pushing into middle age, but it's true. I was given the first book by a friend, but when I went to the bookstore to find the next, it wasn't in the SciFi/Fantasy section. I had to ask for help finding it. It was on the young adult shelf in the kids section, about 15 feet from the Thomas the Tank Engine books.

[Jon Paul]

I never knew that the Wheel of Time was YA. It's always under the general fantasy section at my book store with the debauched likes of Martin and Abercrombie.

[Vambram]

I never knew that the Wheel of Time was YA. It's always under the general fantasy section at my book store with the debauched likes of Martin and Abercrombie.

 

Agreed. The WOT has always been found in the general fantasy or the bestsellers section of any bookstore that I have ever visited.

 

 

Anyone who classifies The Wheel of Time series as Young Adult Fiction is badly mistaken.

[Himiko]

I've always seen the WoT books in the general Sci-Fi/ Fantasy section of any bookshops I've been in. The only ones I've seen in the Teen/ Young Adult sections are the books (the titles of which I've forgotten, though I believe one may be called "Escape from the Two Rivers"?) that are essentially Eye of the World/ The Great Hunt split into two shorter books each. I don't know if they contain any extra material from the main series, or have material that has been removed. But I've never seen the full books themselves in a YA section.

[mb]

This page seems to be most accurate about character ages::

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/142

[Senexx]

I wouldn't let Young Adults read WoT, it is Adult fiction in my opinion despite the characters initial ages.

 

Although the series is technically set many years in the future, the culture is more of the middle ages & at the age of around 16 IIRC you were considered of age (man or woman) and were expected to do things appropriate for an adult age.

 

Presumably this is an Age where you are usually dead by somewhere between 30 & 50 as it roughly was in times of yore.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i wouldn't assume that most people die between 30 and 50 in the WOT. average life expectancy is usually falsely lowered by increased infant mortality in low tech societies. if you make it to adulthood, even without benefit of wisdoms and such, you can live to be quite old, because humans are built to last a good 70+ years barring misfortune. and in the far future, past some serious population bottlenecks like the breaking, the gene pool may well have improved, health and longevity-wise. as a ruler in peacetime, without too many kids looking to reign, you'd probably live quite long.

 

i wonder if the young ruler thing is related to the young sitter issue among the AS?

[Jon Paul]

I wouldn't let Young Adults read WoT, it is Adult fiction in my opinion despite the characters initial ages.

 

Indeed. One of the things I love about the WoT is that it is adult.. but it doesn't have to throw in graphic sexual scenes etc.

 

the culture is more of the middle ages

 

No it's Early Modern Period .

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i wouldn't censor young adults' reading. yeah, there are books they can read with fewer creepy B&D references, but if they're not already creepified, they won't understand most of those. i'd let anyone who was interested read these books. i read LotR when i was 13, i think, and i know there are younger WoT readers posting here. there was iffier content on the electric company, nevermind the cable kids' channels available now. and have you read those twilight books? WoT is PG-13 at the very worst.

[Seeker Matt]

I have to say that I would also never censor Wheel of Time for any age. There is nothing in it that I think is unsuitable for young kids yet alone young adults. Though personally if a kid has the desire (and the ability) there is little I would try to censor, provided they have a person how they feel able to approach with any questions they might have.

 

I find that most fantasy fiction tends to be young adult and actually I think that -certainly the earlier WoT books- it is nearer older child than YA. That's not to say that it isn't wholly suitable reading for adults.

 

*

 

As for the youth of the leaders I would also say that in RL there have been many examples of brilliant leadership from the [very] young. There is also the fact that most of these leaders are not alone, most have mentors, or are actually 420 years old with the knowledge of the Age of Legends or have the knowledge of hundreds of the finest generals! ;)

[Zhipp]

Am I missing something? How the heck is WoT Adult fiction? It's totally appropriate for kids over the age of twelve, heck, I first read it when I was nine. It has many elements I usually associate with a kids/young adult series.

 

All the main characters are young.

Very young people are able to outsmart vastly more experienced people.

Said young people also are able to learn skills extremely quickly. (Like Naruto, if you've read/watched that)

The violence, language, and sex are all within PG-13 boundaries.

 

And just the whole feel of the books, when compared to things like A Song Of Ice and Fire, or The First Law, is just more mild.

[Mr Ares]

If we define Young Adult books as books intended for a YA audience, then WoT is not YA - it is found in the adult fantasy (no, not that sort of adult fantasy...) section of bookshops, rather than the YA section.

If we define YA as books that are suitable to be read by young adults - that is, lacking overly graphic depictions of violence and sex - even if some of the material in them might go over their heads, some of the language might be considered too complex, then WOT could be considered YA. As could other works of adult fiction, including some classics. Crime and Punishment, for example could, for the most part, be read by those around that age range, as could The Old Man and The Sea. Probably a fair few other books that will generally be found in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy, Fiction, Crime or Classics sections of bookshops and libraries. And therefore RJ can be considered to be in good company.