[Advanced] Monty Python and the Holy Grail Mafia (Game Over)

[bgrishinko]

  On 6/30/2011 at 12:20 AM, ineedfourberfs said:

Who is Red, then, Min? Or at least something in the way of tangible evidence... Even an opinion...

 

 

Because I see no pattern, and nothing short of proof will convince me that Red isn't mafia.

 

 

 

  On 6/29/2011 at 5:02 PM, Red2111 said:

ignoring poss again berf?? i did respond to you, in my first post today i might add

 

  On 6/29/2011 at 1:04 PM, Red2111 said:

berf, you left one thing out of that equation. if Jack is scum and silenced, then it allows the heat to cool off him, gives him a Lynch Free card and another day to live while allowing his other team mates to bring other people to the for-ground and allow all the heat that he gained to simmer down. it also sets me up nicely.

 

 

Your reply was in post 731, responding to 730 which was mine.

 

Post 735 has yet to receive an answer or a response.

 

 

I beleive you know this, and are deliberately trying to sow more confusion by responding to wrong posts and attempting to minimize my claims against you.

 

I also believe that if you had any tiny shred of a defense, you would be speaking up far louder against my claims, as oppsoed to trying to ignore them.

 

 

 

To anyone on the edge, read my two posts linked above. I think they are very convincing arguments. I beleive this game will get a lot easier with Red out of the way leading us all on a merry dance.

 

I beleive red is L4 at the moment?

 

You made supurb points about Red berf, specifically why Red or Jack need to be mafia. But this Min/Red thing + Jack's-edited-posts has me second guessing. I don't know what to think, so I'm going with Moon for now.

[berf]

BG, I will reinstate what I beleive has to be true about the edited posts.

 

 

We KNOW that editing a post will result in modkick.

 

We KNOW that Jack has been silent ever since.

 

It is a very safe assumption to call him silenced. I am 100% on this.

 

 

With that being the case, I mean, I've said it previous in the posts I linked. Don't wanna rehash it. I beleive it's airtight, however, and I beleive the lynch is piling up because people want the Jack+Red thing dusted. And I make a hard case to argue against

 

 

 

 

And I am unhappy with a moon lynch today. Lets say both Red and Moon are scum, which seems likely. Of the two, who is the harder target to pin down? Who will fight better to save thier skin? Who is generally known to be a kickass player?

 

Red. Leaving moon alive to lynch Red will do less damage than lynching Moon and leaving Red to plot and spin tales. Moon is not making big moves. She is low threat. I am sure she is mafia, but less a worry than mafia red.

[Graendals favourite]

I think since we're all aware of Red, she is less of a potential threat. We can always lynch her. Also, the apparent newting of Jack rang to me as a 90% confirmation she was innocent, though I do have beer in front of me. Still, I bet either the red or moon voters feature mafia members for sure this time.

[bgrishinko]

  On 6/30/2011 at 12:57 AM, ineedfourberfs said:

BG, I will reinstate what I beleive has to be true about the edited posts.

 

 

We KNOW that editing a post will result in modkick.

 

We KNOW that Jack has been silent ever since.

 

It is a very safe assumption to call him silenced. I am 100% on this.

 

 

With that being the case, I mean, I've said it previous in the posts I linked. Don't wanna rehash it. I beleive it's airtight, however, and I beleive the lynch is piling up because people want the Jack+Red thing dusted. And I make a hard case to argue against

 

 

 

 

And I am unhappy with a moon lynch today. Lets say both Red and Moon are scum, which seems likely. Of the two, who is the harder target to pin down? Who will fight better to save thier skin? Who is generally known to be a kickass player?

 

Red. Leaving moon alive to lynch Red will do less damage than lynching Moon and leaving Red to plot and spin tales. Moon is not making big moves. She is low threat. I am sure she is mafia, but less a worry than mafia red.

 

All right Berf, I'll go with you on this one.

 

Unvote: Vote Red

[bgrishinko]

  On 6/30/2011 at 1:10 AM, Graendals favourite said:

I think since we're all aware of Red, she is less of a potential threat. We can always lynch her. Also, the apparent newting of Jack rang to me as a 90% confirmation she was innocent, though I do have beer in front of me. Still, I bet either the red or moon voters feature mafia members for sure this time.

 

Well... considering Red or Moon voters are more than half the players left... The odds that someone there is mafia is likely. Not really saying much here.

[Graendals favourite]

Yea, guess so:(. Oh, well, completing the read, that is bound to show something.

[Graendals favourite]

Ok, ate my grilled chicken, now back to bed methinks.

[Sakaea]

My vote is on Moon as of now, and I will be gone most of tomorrow. I'll change my vote in the morning if it looks like my vote would be better elsewhere.

 

Honestly, I hadn't considered the fact that Dennis the Digger could be construed as scum. The only other scum characters I can think of are the killer rabbit, the knights of Ni, and that Castle Anthrax woman (what was her name?).

[Minuet]

All you guys have to do is read Red's posts and you can figure it out. Goodness.

 

Red I am fine with you voting for me. I have no problem with it. Don't care if it is forced or not.

[Christine]

  On 6/30/2011 at 12:18 AM, Alanna said:

Also, I think Christine was actually agreeing with Sakaea. Which actually makes me a little suspicious of both of them.

 

Yes, I was agreeing with Sak.... are you saying that killing Vanilla Townies is scummy? Sorry I would rather kill mafia over innocents...

[Christine]

Christine's Unofficial Vote Count

 

Min (1) - Red

Moon (5) - Tina, Sak, GF, Wombat, Min

Red (8) - Berf, Moon, Tiinker, Trench, Kill, Key, Piano, BG

 

23 Alive, 12 to Lynch, 14 Voting

 

 

That being said, over half of the current people alive are voting, and our votes are pretty evenly split. People keep going back and forth between Red and Moon, whether because of band wagoning or trying to have a controlled lynch today, I don't know.

 

Someone mentioned that one of the two is most likely scum, and I have to agree. More than likely, if we lynch one and they flip town, the people that voted for them are mafia. If they flip mafia, then the votes on the other person is the mafia. But of course, this means that there is probably innocents mixed in.

 

 

With this reasoning, at this point it makes me think that Red is the innocent, since there is more people on her, as more than likely that's the mafia team and a few innocents. It is probably the people that haven't been flipping too. Going to guess the flippers are the innocents.

 

Combining that reasoning with the fact that I really just don't see there being two silencers, and that only one person has turned up silenced today, I am going to say Vote Moon.

 

 

So, 6 Moon, 8 Red

[Amadine]

For the moment i am going to VOTE MOON. I still highly suspect Red & Jack but i feel Moon is the better option for today.

[WWWwombat]

Obviously it is bad to lose any townie but early in the game, lynching a vanilla townie is pretty much par for the course. Therefore, getting upset at the possibility of losing vanilla townies either shows unreasonable expectations, or an overly strong desire to look town. Often, the people trying the hardest to look town are the scum. This is why Sakaea is scummy for FoSing me.

[bgrishinko]

Can I vote for both? You folks aren't making this easy...

[WWWwombat]

At this point in the game, we should be gathering information and protecting our power roles' identities.

[berf]

I am suspicious of a lot of the moon votes. Hardly any of them have even TOUCHED on the Red Vote, or delivered reasons why they ARN'T voting for her, with a strong case on the table.

 

 

Is this the mafia trying to prevent the hammer falling on MOON AND RED, both of which are strong mafia cases? If BOTH are mafia, this is a prime tactic.

 

 

 

 

Moon, from memory, has her vote on Red, but this could be a covering move. I would be curious to see if her vote moves if Red moves closer to Lynch.

 

 

One last thing, I find it amazing that Red hasn't kicked and screamed a lot more. We all saw what happened when Jack presented a case that she thought she could overcome. Now that there is a far stronger case against her, she is hiding away, minimising, and trying to deflect and absorb minimum attention to her votes.

 

 

 

I implore you guys. Moon can wait. I agree she is mafia, but, and no offense moon, not a very good or dangerous one. Red is the far more threatening target, and I don't know what more I can do to convince people of this fact.

[berf]

  On 6/30/2011 at 3:54 AM, Amadine said:

For the moment i am going to VOTE MOON. I still highly suspect Red & Jack but i feel Moon is the better option for today.

 

 

Why?

[Amadine]

They way Moon jumped when questioned on day one and was suspected and then silenced on day two is suss imo, however in saying that its possible that wombat is scum, maybe even the silencer, and claimed that he got silenced to throw suspicions onto Moon? I would not put it past him.

 

The Red and Jack situation is making my head hurt, and it appears that Jack is silent this day and Red has had her vote controlled. Id prefer not to lynch someone unable to defend himself and Min is confident that Red is town so I am happy to go back to the original train of thought on Moon.

[Amadine]

How long is it to deadline? Anyone know?

[Niniel]

  On 6/30/2011 at 3:52 AM, Christine said:

Christine's Unofficial Vote Count

 

Min (1) - Red

Moon (5) - Tina, Sak, GF, Wombat, Min

Red (8) - Berf, Moon, Tiinker, Trench, Kill, Key, Piano, BG

 

23 Alive, 12 to Lynch, 14 Voting

 

 

That being said, over half of the current people alive are voting, and our votes are pretty evenly split. People keep going back and forth between Red and Moon, whether because of band wagoning or trying to have a controlled lynch today, I don't know.

 

Someone mentioned that one of the two is most likely scum, and I have to agree. More than likely, if we lynch one and they flip town, the people that voted for them are mafia. If they flip mafia, then the votes on the other person is the mafia. But of course, this means that there is probably innocents mixed in.

 

 

With this reasoning, at this point it makes me think that Red is the innocent, since there is more people on her, as more than likely that's the mafia team and a few innocents. It is probably the people that haven't been flipping too. Going to guess the flippers are the innocents.

 

Combining that reasoning with the fact that I really just don't see there being two silencers, and that only one person has turned up silenced today, I am going to say Vote Moon.

 

 

So, 6 Moon, 8 Red

 

Isn´t this a strange post? What does the first part mean? If we lynch Red and she is town then all who voted for her are mafia, except for some of them who are town? And the same goes if we lynch Moon and she is town then all who voted for her are mafia, except for some of them who are town. lol.

 

And it get´s even funnier when you say you vote Moon cos Red has most votes and thereby the mafia team is on her lynch. So by this logic, if Moon will have more votes on her than Red you will then change your vote to Red?

 

Your second last post was also very weired. Big FOS on you, Christine.

 

 

I thought Berf made a good case and I see why some follow him. I can see a possibility that both Red and Jack could be town though. Mafia silence Jack. Everyone blame Red. She turns up town and then everyone goes after Jack again and lynch him too. But as Berf said it would probably be easier for mafia just to step back and let them continue the argument wich would in the end lead to the same thing. First a lynch on one and when she/he turns up town then lynch the other one.

 

We have some claims today. Red say she is Dennis the Digger. Well she is Dennis today anyway if we should go by her posting. It did look like she was King Arthur day one and the Black Knight day 2. Why does her roll change every day? How could we trust her? Min says she has figured out who Red is and hint on a PR since she says we shouldn´t vote Red. I may be a bit stupid but I don´t get it at all. And I don´t know what roll Min might have. The only things that seems clear is that they have to vote one another certain days.

 

(Sakaea suddenly changed her vote to Moon after Red said she was vanilla. It seems like she and Christine is out to rescue Red.)

 

And Moon makes a half reviel hinting she is "servant of the Knights". So we have two players who has majority of votes on them and we got hints about their rolls.

 

Moons only "defens" so far is the half reviel so I´m sticking to my vote on her. I´m more then willing to listen to the rest of you though. My head is just spinning...

[keyholder21]

  On 6/30/2011 at 1:10 AM, Graendals favourite said:

I think since we're all aware of Red, she is less of a potential threat. We can always lynch her. Also, the apparent newting of Jack rang to me as a 90% confirmation she was innocent, though I do have beer in front of me. Still, I bet either the red or moon voters feature mafia members for sure this time.

 

Why say newting and not silencing? We don't know that he was turned into a newt. In fact, most of us have been commenting on the suspiciousness of Moon's 'reveal' that she was turned into a newt.

[Amadine]

Interesting slip there GF. Good catch Ems!

[Red2111]

*Red goes back to building a mud pie, mumbling more about the insanities of a monarchy versus a republic*

 

 

Berf - i didn't ignore your post, i never saw it. it was posted while i was typing up mine or else i would have repsonded to it. just an FYI, i don't preview my posts, never have and don't typically like too. your posts were about 3 minutes before mine berf so stop getting your panties in a twist and hollering i'm ignoring you on purpose. i try to go back and make sure i haven't missed any, but when you post from work like i do sometimes you don't have time to scroll up to see if there were any new responses.

 

 

in this game, and aside from Jack, when have you seen me ignore a post directed at me. so calm your goose feathers and look a bit farther than the tip of your nose in this Jack/Red thing. besides, i can't tell you how wrong you are, how are you goign to swallow all your words about "Red is the bigger threat cause she's scum" when i flip vanilla innocent? for our sakes i hop your scum taking a relaly big chance, because you've just given the scum all the ammo they could have for pushing a lynch on you once i flip.

 

 

 

 

 

  On 6/29/2011 at 2:13 PM, ineedfourberfs said:

I don't think the heat will die down. At least, not longer than one day, anyway. As soon as he is unsilenced, well, he knows only one way to play it seems, and will go straight back to catching flak.

 

which means Moon will once again get her lynch pushed back to see if Jack is scum *shakes head* i get that you think i'm scum, theres a few in this game who do and i can't say i blame them. what can i say, i have a play style people like to suspect. but your playing right into the mafia's hands by over looking Moon.

as vocal and center stage as a player i've been all game, don't you think a finder woudl have veiwed me by now, and that if they had turned up a scum alignment that they woudl have been hollering rather loudly for my head. possibly even revealed to get me out of the way since i'm apparently so dangerous?

 

I am having difficulty wrapping my head around the concept that a mafia player would play as he does. Especially when coming so close to lynch, and then not changing his style at all. I am presuming that a mafia alligned would back off so as not to go straight back to lynchville the next day.

 

just becuase you wouldn't use that playstyle as scum doesn't mean others wont. i've played even more aggressive than him as scum just to throw the town into confusion and becuase i was bored and felt the game need to be spiced up.

and a play style change in mid playing when heat is gaining on you is a big tell that your scum and would have led to him being lynch reguardless if he was silenced berf. i've led lynchs on people for less in this game.

 

 

If we assume he is TOWN, Vanilla for arguments sake, then I can buy it. His job is to catch scum, his best weapon is laying down evidence and asking questions, and getting people on board with him. Slightly more cavalier in approach, as there is less to lose.

 

if your talkign about me, i'm a she. and i am vanilla and thats exactly what i've been doing. if your talking about Jack, then how is focusing on things like "why was JLM the NK choice" or "Does Red really have a PR" during the day help us find scum?

 

 

As to not dropping the hammer on himself? I wouldn't do it either. I'd make you pull the trigger. I know I'm not alone in that. Different strokes for different folks, however.

 

agreed, but becuase of his attitude towards being lynched and how he was waiting so hard to gloat and say "i told you so". generally a player like that is willing to hammer themselves, especially if it gets the town a controlled vote and they are a townie.

 

 

Now, the bolded parts in that quote:

 

Setting you up: Sure does. You got heavily involved with Jack, therefore any activity on his end is going to roll through.

 

The latter part: Basically opening the door to calling a lynch on Jack. He is on a lot of radars, and you are pretty much saying "Yep. Keep them on the radar, REGARDLESS of the actions against them."

 

...which, would you beleive, is a tactic I pointed out in my post?

 

Because i know i'm innocent and i'm 99.9% sure that Jack is likely to be a symp i'd say the tactic i listed is more likely. look at how events have fallen. Jack was set up for todays lynch, i've pointed out a few times i believe he's a symp. a symp is a valued asset to the Mafia team, especially if they can use him to take down a very vocal and informative player such as myself.

jack is silenced (or is pretending to be silenced via isntructions from the QT) and, wow big surpirse, the tides turn to lynch me; falling right into the scums plot. the scum leave a townie most liekly to really push for my lynch in hopes to set up this person for a later lynch (this would be you most likely berf) and to do their dirty work for them.

 

now comes the great part. i flip innocent and jack comes back in barrels fully loaded hollering how he was silenced and attacks the 2nd perosn whose been actually silenced. mean while the scum get another NK, once again all members of their team still alive. Moon's lynch (who pretty much all of us think is scum) is pushed back another day in favor for a lynch on a symp, and all the time the scum are planting the seeds for a berf lynch since he was the hardest pusher on my lynch.

 

 

you see how the tactic of setting me up and knowing i'm innocent can play out much more in their favor rather than both me & jack being scum or both of us being innocent.

 

You also claim that having an action against one does not make one less/more suspicious. Last day, you voted Jack. Now, you vote min. I am seeing this as a tactic to distance yourself from the Jack thing. You know there is still a good chance of people WANTING to vote Jack, and are planting the seeds for them to feel good to do so. However, you don't go for it?

 

why question my vote on Min? i'm rather happy with it there for the rest of the day.

 

 

 

I beleive you are mafia. I beleive you intentionally ignored certain aspects of Jack's questions. I can see you antagonising him and leading him into a merry tizzy, which admitedly he could have walked away from, but either way.

 

yes i intentionally ignored Jacks post and his questions. they had nothign to do with catching scum and were focused mainly on background things that were better suited for talking about during night. if you believed Jack to be a symp and saw him digging his own hole nicely, woudln't you dust your hands of him once you'd submitted your vote and had no intention of unvoting him?

as for antagonising him, i wasn't bating him. he did a fine enough job of making himself look scummy with his own words without needing my help. and if there was any antagonisation goign on, i woudl say ti was on his part. all that quoting me and responding to stuff i wasn't saying to him and calling me a bully among other things to try and get a direct retort for me could be considered antagonising.

 

 

I beleive you are being contradictory in your attempt to open the gate for Jack lynching, and yet voting min so as not to make it obvious. You don't want to START the Jack lynch when he is silenced, as that would seem mafia-ey. But you attempt to make it OK for others to do so.

 

the only thing i've pushed hard for concerning Jack is to have people stop linking me with him. Charis started it on Day 1, and jack followed suit by seeign that cookie and latchign on for dear life. oh trust me, i would start the jack lynch reguardless whether he's silenced or not because i feel his scum buddies are trying to give him a bit of cover and redoup time; but i like my vote where it is.

 

 

I am in two minds about the RP non-reveal. Having your RP confirmed would speak to your character. I'm not asking for you to reveal it, I don't want to be accused of role-fishing or whatever, but when you were asked it, you fair flipped out. If you are town, revealing it would have stopped a lot of the beef.

 

i answered the question when Trench asked, and i answered the same question twice when Jack asked. i only got miffy becuase he kept pushing for a different answer. i'll say this for a forth & last time; i will not or can not confirm or deny whether i have or don't have a Pr, or if it's a character claim or if it's just me having fun. this has been my answer from Day 1 and will remain my answer until i'm lynched or NKd.

 

 

 

 

  On 6/30/2011 at 12:20 AM, ineedfourberfs said:

Because I see no pattern, and nothing short of proof will convince me that Red isn't mafia.

 

so when i flip innocent, and berf flips symp and moon flips scum; will you see the pattern then? i can't believe that you can't see how the scum could use a silencing role to stop a lynch on a team mate whose a vaible lynch candidate.

 

 

I beleive you know this, and are deliberately trying to sow more confusion by responding to wrong posts and attempting to minimize my claims against you.

 

i've already answered this. i don't preview my posts and theres no warning to let me know when new posts are posted. if you want to make it into something that its not, more power to you. but have a good time swallowing those words when i flip innocent and it's proven i'm telling the truth.

 

 

I also believe that if you had any tiny shred of a defense, you would be speaking up far louder against my claims, as oppsoed to trying to ignore them.

 

i am fighting, in my own way. the only reason why i'm not going all emo melt down like you suggest i shoudl do (in other words what Jack did) is because

 

A - i don't like goign all emo melt down just cause i'm getting lynched

B - my lynch will give the town and particularly the finder alot of info, and for that alone i'm always happy of sacrificing myself for the greater good

 

C - i'm a vanilla player, so atleast the town wont be losing a roled player in the lynch

 

D - lastly, i'm gonna enjoy watching those who called me scum and pushed so hard for my lynch squirm, especially yourself and Jack.

 

 

To anyone on the edge, read my two posts linked above. I think they are very convincing arguments. I beleive this game will get a lot easier with Red out of the way leading us all on a merry dance.

 

you know, i bet the scum feel exactly this way.

 

 

  On 6/30/2011 at 4:35 AM, WWWwombat said:

At this point in the game, we should be gathering information and protecting our power roles' identities.

 

i agree, which is why i don't have a problem with me being lynched.

 

and i also agree with what you say abotu Sakaea, not to mention that with such a controversial lynch as mine theres bound to be scum comming out and "defending" me. it's not enough to put her above Jack or Moon, but is enough to bump her up a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

  On 6/30/2011 at 12:19 PM, TinaHel said:

We have some claims today. Red say she is Dennis the Digger. Well she is Dennis today anyway if we should go by her posting. It did look like she was King Arthur day one and the Black Knight day 2. Why does her roll change every day? How could we trust her? Min says she has figured out who Red is and hint on a PR since she says we shouldn´t vote Red. I may be a bit stupid but I don´t get it at all. And I don´t know what roll Min might have. The only things that seems clear is that they have to vote one another certain days.

 

(Sakaea suddenly changed her vote to Moon after Red said she was vanilla. It seems like she and Christine is out to rescue Red.)

 

And Moon makes a half reviel hinting she is "servant of the Knights". So we have two players who has majority of votes on them and we got hints about their rolls.

 

Moons only "defens" so far is the half reviel so I´m sticking to my vote on her. I´m more then willing to listen to the rest of you though. My head is just spinning...

 

 

Tina you make some very good observations, i'm glad others are seeing Chrissys & Sakaeas actions as note worthy.

 

as to the underlined: who says its a role hint or has anything to do with my role?

 

as to the bolded : i gave a full blown 100% reveal. i'm Dennis the Digger and i'm vanilla townie. Moon's the only one whose give a crappy and scummy half reveal.

[keyholder21]

  On 6/30/2011 at 1:31 PM, Red2111 said:

  On 6/30/2011 at 12:19 PM, TinaHel said:

We have some claims today. Red say she is Dennis the Digger. Well she is Dennis today anyway if we should go by her posting. It did look like she was King Arthur day one and the Black Knight day 2. Why does her roll change every day? How could we trust her? Min says she has figured out who Red is and hint on a PR since she says we shouldn´t vote Red. I may be a bit stupid but I don´t get it at all. And I don´t know what roll Min might have. The only things that seems clear is that they have to vote one another certain days.

 

(Sakaea suddenly changed her vote to Moon after Red said she was vanilla. It seems like she and Christine is out to rescue Red.)

 

And Moon makes a half reviel hinting she is "servant of the Knights". So we have two players who has majority of votes on them and we got hints about their rolls.

 

Moons only "defens" so far is the half reviel so I´m sticking to my vote on her. I´m more then willing to listen to the rest of you though. My head is just spinning...

 

 

Tina you make some very good observations, i'm glad others are seeing Chrissys & Sakaeas actions as note worthy.

 

as to the underlined: who says its a role hint or has anything to do with my role?

 

as to the bolded : i gave a full blown 100% reveal. i'm Dennis the Digger and i'm vanilla townie. Moon's the only one whose give a crappy and scummy half reveal.

 

I'm thinking it more has to do with a PR than a role. Now that Tina pointed it out, you do seem to switch characters every game day. I haven't seen the movie in a while, maybe if I had I would know who you are just like Min. Or maybe you just have to change characters every day because in the movie most of them play multiple characters? idk. I am satisfied with the idea that you have a PR that's making you change though. I'm going back to my original thought of scum,

 

unvote, vote Moon.

[Moon Sedai]

Fine,.

 

I'm Concorde, Lancelot's servant, Vanilla Townie.