Who are some characters you wish you had gotten to see MORE of in the series???

[The Fisher King]

More SHAIDAR HARAN please...

And Uno.

And also Mat-Birgitte duo, they were awesome.

And... never enough RAND for me

 

But definetely less Sevanna...

 

This may seem like a bit of a weird question, but I'm genuinely curious> What exactly is is about Rand that makes you like his character so much?

 

 

- Fish

 

 

P.S. The less of the ''Sevanna/Thereva/Galina'' bunch DEFINITELY the better!!!

 

Well, it may be a bit embarassing (given that I'm 23), but suppose it's just about my own personality. I always get deeply emotionally involved with my favorite characters... the kinda girl who cries on films and books, you know. I was romantic most when I started reading WoT as a teenager and my feelings for Rand didn't change since then (I am still romantic). So, basically, he's kinda ROMANTIC and TRAGIC HERO. He takes responsibility, this heavy mountain, sacrificing himself, having an internal conflict because of the need to act immoral to achieve a goal. And he's so damn talented, and tall and red-haired . I like his temperament- something between Mat (I like Mat very much) and Perrin, courage, determination, nonconformity, independence, shrewdness; that he doesn't indulge himself in anything; his attitude towards women and sex, care, loyalty and this specific blend of toghness and... I can't find the appropriate English word, but something that makes him feel guilty of any injustice, harm, woman's death he causes, his shameful behaviour... His sensitive conscience. And the arrogant way he sits on the throne

 

Is your curiosity satisfied?

 

 

For now ;) ... My feelings almost don't make sense about the Big Three, but I can't help it. I have always felt like Cauthon and Perrin have MUCH more personality than Rand, but I agree with you that Rand is the epitopme of the Tragic Hero trope - but done in a very, very good way. All three tav'eren's choices have geerally sucked, but, man, the sh!t Rand has had to deal with just ain't right LOL!!! ... Thanks again for the indepth answer!

 

 

- Fish

[pamela]

You're welcome, Fish

[OptimusPrime]

All Im saying is AMoL better not have more than a chapter at a time without Rand! The last one NEEDS to be his book!

 

As for Mat and Perrin having more personality... Im not sure I agree tbh, I actually think he was the more normal one at the start. Mat was the cocky git who never shuts up, Perrin is the quiet misunderstood guy, the grafter, the what you see is what you get and you dont see much kind of guy. Rand was the levelheaded one, although yeah, fairly generic until the scale started climbing.

 

Rand Sedai is cool, but sadly I think we have seen Rand give all of his best "Rand" moments, the rest now will be the things he does, not who he is, or the frame of mind hes in. I think even in TGS Rand could amaze me just by being Rand, because you never knew when his messed up side would come through. That all seems to have passed though, feels like a huge chunk of the suspense is gone. He was prone to messing up because he was blind, because he was mad etc, and in one foul swoop of an epilogue it was taken away. Dont get me wrong, VoG was amazing. The aftermath, though, just feels bland in comparison now.

 

I miss Rands madness. Its just not the same anymore. What good is a screwed up hero once he sorts himself out? I miss the whacko moments, when he thinks hes Lews Therin, when he nearly breaks the seals, when he lost control of Callandor.

 

Unless, of course, the link to Moridin brings Dark Rand back. I miss him.

[pamela]

All Im saying is AMoL better not have more than a chapter at a time without Rand! The last one NEEDS to be his book!

 

As for Mat and Perrin having more personality... Im not sure I agree tbh, I actually think he was the more normal one at the start. Mat was the cocky git who never shuts up, Perrin is the quiet misunderstood guy, the grafter, the what you see is what you get and you dont see much kind of guy. Rand was the levelheaded one, although yeah, fairly generic until the scale started climbing.

 

Rand Sedai is cool, but sadly I think we have seen Rand give all of his best "Rand" moments, the rest now will be the things he does, not who he is, or the frame of mind hes in. I think even in TGS Rand could amaze me just by being Rand, because you never knew when his messed up side would come through. That all seems to have passed though, feels like a huge chunk of the suspense is gone. He was prone to messing up because he was blind, because he was mad etc, and in one foul swoop of an epilogue it was taken away. Dont get me wrong, VoG was amazing. The aftermath, though, just feels bland in comparison now.

 

I miss Rands madness. Its just not the same anymore. What good is a screwed up hero once he sorts himself out? I miss the whacko moments, when he thinks hes Lews Therin, when he nearly breaks the seals, when he lost control of Callandor.

 

Unless, of course, the link to Moridin brings Dark Rand back. I miss him.

 

 

Mmm... sounds nostalgic! I still got a few volumes to read before I finally reach tGS and now you made me nostalgic already- I will miss mad, unpredictable- laughing all of the sudden and nobody knowing why- Rand too... Will it really pass? No, don't tell me anything more.

 

But yes, indeed, at the beginning he was just the only normal guy... ironically.

[OptimusPrime]

Well, sorry about the slip up there, however I can safely say to you, the BEST is yet to come. Gotts love TGS.

[Toral alCaar]

Asmodeon definitely, also Morgase

[TheAngryDruid]

All good ones so far, for me.

 

Good Guys.

1. Moiraine. Should have been rescued books ago.

2. Logain.

3. Verin. Though her awesomeness took a big hit with bungling Camelyn so badly.

4. Pevara/Tarna. My favorite AS who haven't gotten much screen time.

5. Lan.

6. Birgitte

7. Bashere

8. Loial.

9. Alivia.

10. Dobraine

11. Berelain

12. Rhuarc

 

Bad guys:

1. Lanfear/Cyndane

2. Fain

3. Isam

4. Moghedien since the cleansing

5. Alviarin

6. Taim

7. Moridin

[RelentlessAttack]

Demandred

Cyndane

Rodel

Taim

[pamela]

Well, sorry about the slip up there, however I can safely say to you, the BEST is yet to come. Gotts love TGS.

 

It's ok... And now it sounds great, just can't wait (... what a pity my bloody MA dissertation can't wait too).

[Kal11]

Lan would definitely be up there for me, he has been easily one of my favorite characters since book one. I also wish Moiraine had been brought back earlier in the story as she was one of my favorite females, although the prolonged wait does give her return more impact. The two of them were a great team. Getting into Thom's head more would have been nice as well. I always found him to be amusing and he often made me actually smile or even laugh out loud. Lanfear/Cyndane is another character I would have liked more development from, she was always my favorite Forsaken. Certainly way cooler and more complex than any of the other Forsaken women imo.

[Zhipp]

More:

Loial

Logain

Nyneave(mainly PoVs)

Faile

Taim

Padan bloody Fain!

 

Less:

Elayne

Egwene

Min

Aes Sedai in general

Gawyn! ugh!

 

I would've named Mat as well, but he's gotten plenty page time in the past 3 books. Still, you can never have too much Mat.

[The Fisher King]

More:

Loial

Logain

Nyneave(mainly PoVs)

Faile

Taim

Padan bloody Fain!

 

Less:

Elayne

Egwene

Min

Aes Sedai in general

Gawyn! ugh!

 

I would've named Mat as well, but he's gotten plenty page time in the past 3 books. Still, you can never have too much Mat.

 

 

I agree with EVERY SINGLE one of yours on both lists - EXCEPT about Min. I'm a fan of hers. Always have been.

 

 

- Fish

[lilltempest]

More:

Loial

Logain

Nyneave(mainly PoVs)

Faile

Taim

Padan bloody Fain!

 

Less:

Elayne

Egwene

Min

Aes Sedai in general

Gawyn! ugh!

 

I would've named Mat as well, but he's gotten plenty page time in the past 3 books. Still, you can never have too much Mat.

 

Good list. Mine is quite similar:

 

More:

Logain

Nynaeve (more PoVs)

Faile

Asha'man - the ones who are NOT bonded as slaves to the Aes Sedai

Mat (I don't care how many POVs he has, it isn't enough!)

Rand (for the savior, his presence is lacking in the latter half of the series)

Disgruntled Warders - I'm sorry, they can not all be happy with being mindless, obedient slaves to Aes Sedai. I want to see the ones who are not.

Lan - Because we never see his POV, I have to judge him by his behavior. He's a jerk to Nyn most of the time and seems to care more about dying and his dead owner than his wife. I'd like a POV to prove me otherwise, and the crappy little blip we got in ToM just didn't do it.

Davram and Deira Bashere - The two of them seem to have the most balanced and equal relationship in the series. The few scenes they've had have been refreshing to read considering the way the other males in the series are treated and talked about by their women.

 

Less:

Egwene (a LOT less...she has surpassed Rand in screen time, I think)

Elayne

Aes Sedai in general

Gawyn

 

*edited because it was too hard to read as it was*

[David Selig]

Davram and Deira Bashere - The two of them seem to have the most balanced and equal relationship in the series. The few scenes they've had have been refreshing to read considering the way the other males in the series are treated and talked about by their women.

Really?

LoC, Ch. 46

 

"A woman wants a strong man, stronger than she, here.” Her finger poked his chest hard enough to make him grunt. “I’ll never forget the first time Davram took me by the scruff of the neck and showed me he was the stronger of us. It was magnificent!”

 

Doesn't seem equal to me at all. The whole idea is that the husband must be the stronger, otherwise the marriage is doomed.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

they are strong in different ways

[lilltempest]

Davram and Deira Bashere - The two of them seem to have the most balanced and equal relationship in the series. The few scenes they've had have been refreshing to read considering the way the other males in the series are treated and talked about by their women.

Really?

"A woman wants a strong man, stronger than she, here.” Her finger poked his chest hard enough to make him grunt. “I’ll never forget the first time Davram took me by the scruff of the neck and showed me he was the stronger of us. It was magnificent!”

 

Doesn't seem to equal to me. The idea is that the husband must be the stronger, otherwise the marriage is doomed.

 

I didn't take it that way. In relationships, there should be give and take, and when one partner is about to do something colossally stupid or dangerous, then the other should be able to stop them. Saldaeans seem a great deal like the Sea Folk in their relationships, only without the vows to obey in private/public when you get to rule in public/private. The women are fierce and the men respect that fierceness. They don't treat them like delicate flowers, but like equals - and when an equal gets in your face the wrong way, or pushes too hard, you push back, without worrying whether they may break like a fine piece of china. That is why Faile has gotten so angry with Perrin in the past - Perrin treats her like she is unable to handle his anger, and it angers her for two reasons: first, it implies that he thinks she isn't strong enough to face him and, second, it is something that could endanger their relationship. All couples disagree. All couples fight. If you hold back too much, out of fear or whatever reason, and you do it often enough, that begins to grow into resentment. Deira and Davram (and all Saldaeans, apparently) attempt to nip that in the bud. You may get mad for a while, but the anger fades because all is out in the open.

 

And, since you provided a quote, so will I. These are from CoT - read these and tell me that Davram thinks she is not his equal. Or that she is formidable enough to handle him and whatever anger he may dish out to her, or that she has some bizarre fear of him for when he did "grab her by the scruff of the neck" or whatever (which I took as a figure of speech):

 

Just inside the tentflaps, he halted. The tent, large enough for twenty soldiers to sleep in, was crowded to the walls with women, wives of nobles and officers, but his eyes quickly found his own wife, Deira, seated on a folding chair in the middle of the carpets that served for a floor, and the numbness faded. He knew she would die one day - they both would - but the only thing he feared was living without her. Then he realized that some of the women were helping her to lower her dress to her waist. Another was pressing a folded cloth to Deira’s left arm, and the cloth was growing red as blood ran down her arm in a sheet and dripped from her fingers into a bowl set on the carpet. There was a considerable amount of dark blood already in the bowl.

 

She saw him at the same instant, and her eyes flashed in a face that was much too pale. “It comes from hiring outlanders, husband,” she said fiercely, her right hand shaking a long dagger at him. As tall as most men, inches taller than he, and beautiful, her face framed with raven hair winged with white, she had a commanding presence that could become imperious when she was angry. Even when she obviously could barely sit upright. Most women would have been flustered at being bare to the waist in front of so many, with her husband present. Not Deira. “If you did not always insist on moving like the wind, we could have good men from our own estates to do whatever was needful.”

 

“A dispute with servants, Deira?” he said, cocking an eyebrow. “I never thought you’d start taking knives to them.” Several of the women gave him cool, sidelong glances. Not every man and wife dealt together as he and Deira did. Some thought them odd, since they seldom shouted.

 

Deira scowled at him, then grunted a short, involuntary laugh. “I will start at the beginning, Davram. And go slowly, so you can understand,” she added with a small smile, pausing to thank the women who draped a white linen sheet around her bare torso. “I returned from my ride to find two strange men ransacking our tent. They drew daggers, so naturally, I hit one of them with a chair and stabbed the other.” She directed a grimace at her cut arm. “Not well enough, since he managed to touch me. Then Zavion and some of the others came in, and the pair fled through a slit they had made in the rear of the tent.”

[David Selig]

Your quote is nice and shows their love, but I really don't see how it proves anything whether the relationship is equal or not. They understand each well enough to not have to resort to shouting or worse often, but in LoC it's clearly implied that Davram has the final word when he wants to. Since it works for them - fine, I have no problem, good for them, though Deira's claim that a marriage can never work if the woman is stronger is quite annoying. I just found it strange you gave it as an example as an equal relationship.

 

But enough of this. Back on topic - I am surprised several of you want more Faile. I thought the vast majority (me included) thought there's way too much of her already. ;)

 

Anyway - my choices:

Verin

Dobraine

Rhuarc

Loial

[lilltempest]

Your quote is nice and shows their love, but I really don't see how it proves anything whether the relationship is equal or not. They understand each well enough to not have to resort to shouting or worse often, but in LoC it's clearly implied that Davram has the final word when he wants to. Since it works for them - fine, I have no problem, good for them, though Deira's claim that a marriage can never work if the woman is stronger is quite annoying. I just found it strange you gave it as an example as an equal relationship.

 

I'll try this one more time (and go slow since you're a man - just kidding!)...

 

Yes, Deira wants a man who can be stronger than her - sometimes. When I spoke of balance in a relationship, I don't think I was clear - at times, one partner has to be stronger than the other. Things will happen in life that will hurt you or weaken you (unless you're not human and are, instead, some cold-hearted, emotionless drone like an Aes Sedai or Egwene) and when that happens, you want someone at your side that you can lean on, who can help shoulder the weight of the world when you aren't able to (or can take it all if that's what's needed at the time).

 

When she said a man needed to be stronger than a woman, she did not mean it in the way you perceive it. These people are not living in our world (aka, mamby pamby land, where men are have been conditioned to be metrosexuals who act more feminine than the women and taught that acting like they have a bit of testosterone is a bad thing). They are living in a world where things are rough and the Borderlanders, especially, are constantly facing death. So it's not that Deira thinks a man should rule a woman or always get the final say, but that when she needs him to be stronger, he will be. Since there is no way of knowing whether or not a man is capable of that, all she can do is judge how he behaves and whether or not he shows strength or not. Even Cadsuane, as much as I loathe her, understands this and tests Rand by pushing him constantly. That's why Faile pushed Perrin so much - she shouldn't have to always make all the decisions and he should not always cower and bow to her will. If he doesn't have enough strength to stand up to her when she pushes him to his limit (and to put a stop to her abusing him when she won't stop after he's asked numerous times, and do so in a way that is not psychotic or wimpy), how will he have the strength to be a true partner in her life?

 

As an aside, and I think this is something a number of people forget... A woman who claims to be strong, but insists on having a man who obeys her completely and is incapable of thinking or acting for himself (and will put up with whatever abuse she dishes out with no more than a slight grumble) isn't strong at all - she's weak, and she needs a weaker man to make her feel stronger. A woman who is truly strong needs a strong man. And, the stronger a woman is, the stronger she needs her partner to be. That's what Deira was trying to tell Perrin. Unfortunately, I think he still hasn't quite figured it out yet.

[Zhipp]

I agree with EVERY SINGLE one of yours on both lists - EXCEPT about Min. I'm a fan of hers. Always have been.

 

 

- Fish

It's not that I hate Min...well, I used to hate Min...actually, I should say I sometimes hate Min. I don't really mind seeing so much of her, I just wish she didn't get so many PoVs. Way too Rand obsessed imo.

[Duskfire]

My list isnt much different from other peoples, but still going to throw it out there :P

 

Padan Fain

Rahvin

Shaidar Haran

Demandred

Dobraine

Rhuarc

Pevara

Logain

Mazrim Taim

Alanna

Narishma

Talmanes

[The Fisher King]

My list isnt much different from other peoples, but still going to throw it out there :P

 

Padan Fain

Rahvin

Shaidar Haran

Demandred

Dobraine

Rhuarc

Pevara

Logain

Mazrim Taim

Alanna

Narishma

Talmanes

 

 

Great list.

 

 

- Fish

[Alric]

Of the main characters, I would say Min. I understand that there is more Min in the later books and I'm glad if that proves to be true. Compared to lots of other main characters she just seem to be more down to earth and a genuinely nice person.

 

I would like to see more of Aludra. I love her attitude and the comedy of her seemingly careless handling of explosives.

 

 

[MasterAblar]

The Ashaman

The Borderlanders

The Forsaken

[Himiko]

Definitely more Faile. I'd take a few cuts in Perrin's POVs to get a few more of Faile's, definitely ^^ Glad to see I'm not the only one. (Oh, BTW: "A woman who claims to be strong, but insists on having a man who obeys her completely and is incapable of thinking or acting for himself, and will put up with whatever abuse she dishes out with no more than a slight grumble, isn't strong at all - she's weak, and she needs a weaker man to make her feel stronger. A woman who is truly strong needs a strong man. And, the stronger a woman is, the stronger she needs her partner to be"- so true. And the reverse is also true, of course. A man who wants a partner who just agrees with him and obeys him has no business calling himself a strong man, IMO).

 

I'd like to see more of Nynaeve in AMoL- have we had a POV since she passed her test and took Lan's bond? I can't recall, but I'd like to see her thoughts regarding Rand's request, and how things will unfold at the FoM, bearing in mind that she has ties to both Rand and Egwene. And, of course, her reaction to Lan finally doing the stupid.

 

I'd like to see more of Lan if it means I get to see him think "You know, I probably could have been a lot more use in this series if I wasn't so damn fixated on dying all the time..." :P

 

I want to see more Teslyn. Because she's awesome.

 

Can't think of any others off the top of my head.

[Xcorpyo001]

Mat.

Loial.

Nynaeve.

Brigitte.

Moridin.

Thom.

Fortuona&Seachan

 

And Egeanin in short dresses.