First Time Reading the First Book

[Agitel]

I'm pretty sure the WoT technology is around Renaissance Europe type. There are printing presses BTW. Its mentioned in the Lord of Chaos I do believe.

 

 

 

BTW, I think you need to go a little easier on Perrin. He's not my favorite character but I think I have to defend him. His actions killing the Whitecloaks were irrational but understandable. He just had a creature (who seems to be quite sentient and intelligent) who has a psychic connection to his mind killed. This probably comes as a big shock. Which is what probably drove him into the blood rage that followed.

 

Perrin's best defense, in this case, is temporary insanity. Or, you know, permanent insanity. One or the other.

 

BTW: The Printing press has been around for the last three thousand years. According to RJ, printing was the first real non-necessary trade that was re-discovered after the breaking.

 

Also, most characters see 'old things' as being better than new things. This is not healthy, and is an opinion that has (along with other factors) stagnated technological growth in Randland. It's really quite a sad, but cleverly-designed cultural phenomenon. People are more concerned with re-creating the Age of Legends than they are with building something newer and better. This only begins to really shift about half-way through the series, when people start doing some clever things.

 

I wouldn't say this is entirely true. The last 1000 years have been somewhat stagnant in it's recovery from the civil wars that tore Artur Hawkwing's empire apart. Humanity seems to be waning, though, after several beat downs (the Breaking, Trolloc Wars, Artur Hawkwing's empire falling apart, etc...) that kept plunging the world back into chaos and destroying what progress had been made.

[A2597]

Robert Jordan said that he pictured the world as 1700s, without gunpowder. So that might help when you hear things about books, carts, clothing styles, etc.

 

As for Rand....yea, he's being guided by the pattern, a fancy excuse for plot devices to guide him. Yet...that isn't entirely accurate, for reasons you'll find as you keep reading. You are on the right track with some of your thinking (sorta kinda). Lets just say there is most certainly a tension that his Ta'veren nature does not relieve.

 

Good writeup. :)

[Tiinker]

Thanks for this! I spent my last week of class reading through all this instead of writing essays :P Good on you!

 

Anyone know where the very first of these "First Readings" went? By someone beginning with D.. XD

[RelentlessAttack]

You guys keep telling her too much stuff about the later books. I know talking about technological change or about the three oaths or that the Aiel are white aren't spoilers, but you should let her wonder about some of these things until she gets there. Being previously informed on a lot of things is going to probably make the world building of the later books less interesting for her.

[Feral]

You guys keep telling her too much stuff about the later books. I know talking about technological change or about the three oaths or that the Aiel are white aren't spoilers, but you should let her wonder about some of these things until she gets there. Being previously informed on a lot of things is going to probably make the world building of the later books less interesting for her.

 

Well the problem is with skin colour/technology, there are only vague references to these things (technology not so much in the later books, I guess), which would be quite easy to miss or not take in. Kinda agree on the Oaths thing, but when you're reading someone complain about something you know actually makes sense it can be sooo hard not to explain lol.

[Always Sunny]

Thanks for this! I spent my last week of class reading through all this instead of writing essays :P Good on you!

 

Now, now. I'm a big supporter of education (I was a teacher, once) so you ought to stop reading this right this minute and get back to your studies! This blog will be here when you're done. Besides, I don't think I would have had the ability to write my little blog here if I didn't write a billion essays back in school. So, you know, if you ever want to ...to write this ...umm ...good then you'd better read and write and shit. That's the only way.

 

Oh, and thanks for reading, though! I love, love, love it when people read this stuff (even if they hate it).

 

BTW: The Printing press has been around for the last three thousand years. According to RJ, printing was the first real non-necessary trade that was re-discovered after the breaking.

 

How true is this? I was under the impression that the world was Broken three thousand years ago. I mean, magically reduced to the stone age. Two thousand years later Artur Hawkwing tried to reunite the world by conquering a few local kingdoms (I'm thinking Charlemagne or Abu Bakr) but failed and ended up setting the stage for "modern" times. Another thousand years of normal development bring us to today, about CE 1700. There might have been broken printing presses in the ruins of ancient cities for all that time (just like there should be nonfunctional ipod-like devices and rusted piles of metal that were once filled up parking garages and ruined buildings made of carbon nanotubes or some other non-stone material) but actual, working examples? I had just assumed that the printing press was reinvented some time recently.

 

 

Completely off topic: I'm getting the impression that the universe is like a sweatshop in some backroom down in Little Korea. There is the Wheel that takes lots of threads and Weaves them into a Pattern (I picture not a tapestry but some $300 shirt a fashionista will wear for one day before putting it away in her closet). Anyway, reality as we know it is therefore just all those threads touching each other.

 

And once the pattern has been fully made, the Wheel making one complete Turn, it all starts over again. The threads that were woven in the last pattern continue to be woven into this new one. Maybe in different places, maybe in the same. Usually the same.

 

They change places, though, when something comes along and messes with the pattern. Maybe the Korean worker drops her cigarette on the newly-made cloth and burns a whole. Maybe the Dark One wants to destroy reality so he starts tearing wholes. The Wheel just does not like that!

 

So the Wheel (I don't like the Wheel doing this; it would seem more accurate if a Weaver or Creator or Korean did this next part) then plucks up one random thread from the pattern and pulls it across to where the flaw is. Then this random thread, a ta'varen, is manually used to patch it up. Now this makes the Pattern look like crap, sure. Threads going where they are not supposed to go or patches sewn on are just awful looking. But it's better than a hole in the Pattern, better than a hole in reality.

 

Thus ta'varen are pulled out of their normal lives and put where the dangerous parts of the world are, their threads taken from where they wanted to be and put where they are most needed. They come into contact with threads, with lives, that they were never meant to. Then, once the problem has been fixed, the thread is rewoven into the Pattern right were it is.

 

This sucks when it comes to the concept of free wheel (well, for everyone but the Wheel, Creator, and Dark One) but there you.

 

So the Wheel of Time isn't really what the characters are on. They are on the Pattern that is being woven, worn, and then repaired over and over again by the Wheel. Maybe the Breaking is when the Pattern is complete, when the fashionable shirt is finished, and the Pattern is torn in two to start on another shirt Pattern.

 

This makes sense. I can get behind it. But I'm only puzzling this out now. So don't go looking for this in the blog 'cause you won't find it. In fact, the blog is going to keep going the way it's going until something confirms my little theory here. Until then, the blog will operate under the theory that time is in an eternal, unchanging loop.

[Agitel]

Very insightful.

 

You're right about the devastation of the Breaking, but keep in mind that a society existed before it. Not all knowledge was lost, or at the least the memory that such knowledge existed remained. Society was blasted way back, but in terms of culture, values and philosophy they weren't completely ruined.

 

RAFO on the rest, though. We can discuss Hawkwing's times and such when you get more info.

[UGAShadow]

Just a hint. Manetheren existed 1000 years before Hawkwing.

[Byzantine279]

The actual breaking occurred some ~3500 years before the breaking of the book, I believe, but no one is sure because no one knows how long the event itself happened. And there is a good reason everything was lost during it, though you will find out more about it later.

 

And one thing: Hawkwing did NOT fail, the only place that evaded his control was Tar Valon itself, and he kept it under siege for 20 years. What happened was the same thing that happened to Alexander the Great, the moment he died everyone and their grandmother started fighting over the empire and none managed to capture more than a fragment of it.

[sVieira151]

And one thing: Hawkwing did NOT fail, the only place that evaded his control was Tar Valon itself, and he kept it under siege for 20 years. What happened was the same thing that happened to Alexander the Great, the moment he died everyone and their grandmother started fighting over the empire and none managed to capture more than a fragment of it.

 

One could argue his war vs the AS was his failure. But then again, he was.. uhm (mis)guided by his advisor

 

Anyways, enjoying the blog, it's pretty amusing and insightful; I started reading 1st time last december and and finished #13 a couple of weeks back - so your blog lets me see things I didnt first time round. There are some annoyances in your writing(already meantioned) but I can put up with it. I have an odd ability to look past things that annoy me

 

Anyways, keep up the writing

[Suttree]

The actual breaking occurred some ~3500 years before the breaking of the book, I believe, but no one is sure because no one knows how long the event itself happened. And there is a good reason everything was lost during it, though you will find out more about it later.

 

And one thing: Hawkwing did NOT fail, the only place that evaded his control was Tar Valon itself, and he kept it under siege for 20 years. What happened was the same thing that happened to Alexander the Great, the moment he died everyone and their grandmother started fighting over the empire and none managed to capture more than a fragment of it.

 

He had a pretty epic fails against The Aiel and Shara...

[Byzantine279]

Well, yes, but Shara doesn't matter because it seems they are just plain being excluded from the series, and the Aiel... well, I don't think anyone could have managed that. But he united the entire wetlands under his rule, no small feat.

[UGAShadow]

Was just reading a blog post I skipped. How did you take Thom's 'slip of a girl' comment sexist? That's obviously a comment on her age (or lack of it).

 

 

In other news, I'm waiting on the new one, haha.

[Always Sunny]

Society was blasted way back, but in terms of culture, values and philosophy they weren't completely ruined.

 

I've got two things to say about this. One, how can those things survive an End of the World apocalypse? For example, here in America today we've worked hard to improve women's rights, workers' rights, minorities' rights, and general civil liberties. In a disaster where our CEOs, hipster IT guys, and space shuttle pilots have to start tilling the soil to survive the coming winter we're going to lose a lot of those rights. We're going to lose all that culture, philosophy, and values that say we're all equal. It'll go back to all people who can pick up a plow are equal. Those with guns will be on top and those who can't work die.

 

If I were to guess, people tried to maintain pre-Breaking values (I'm going to pretend there was gender equality before the Breaking because I can do that if I want to ) until people realized that they didn't have to any more. Thus, the beginnings of today's world.

 

Two, that was three thousand years ago. Culture, values, and philosophy change over time. It does in the book. Manetheren (I guess, from the ruins in Shadar Logoth) is something of a Greek or Roman Empire. Then a thousand years or so later you've got Artur Hawkwing's Holy Roman Empire thing going on. Then a thousand years after that you've got the current setting. Modern Andor is culturally different than Hawkwing's empire which was different than Manetheren. At least, I think so. It'd be weird if the setting was exactly the same for three thousand years.

 

 

And one thing: Hawkwing did NOT fail, the only place that evaded his control was Tar Valon itself, and he kept it under siege for 20 years. What happened was the same thing that happened to Alexander the Great, the moment he died everyone and their grandmother started fighting over the empire and none managed to capture more than a fragment of it.

 

The posters after you mention Shara and the Aiel. You say Tar Valon. Did Hawkwing ever conquer the Blight? I remember Ingtar say something about him failing to do that. So this guy tried to conquer the world but couldn't get those places? Sounds like he fell short of the entire world. It sounds to me as if he tried to conquer this part of a single continent.

 

Look at Alexander the Great. One of the greatest conquerors in history. But he never conquered the world. His flag was never raised in Teotihuacan, no cities named Alexandria were built near Uluru. His entire empire came and went in the middle of the Warring States Period in China, never even getting on their radar.

 

I can get behind Hawkwing being more awesome than any real world conqueror. So I can see him taking over all of the Middle East, all of North Africa, all of Europe, and well into Central Asia. I can thus see Hawkwing taking over everything south of the Blight and west of the Aiel. But beyond that? I'll wait for the books to tell me how that happened before I go assuming.

 

Was just reading a blog post I skipped. How did you take Thom's 'slip of a girl' comment sexist? That's obviously a comment on her age (or lack of it).

 

Usually, it isn't just one thing that makes me say "sexist!" You know, unless it is a really egregious example. I can't actually remember Thom saying it but I'm sure there was some build up to it.

 

The way people address others is a show of how much respect there is going on between them. That's pretty obvious. You've got to call the Amyrlin "Amyrlin" and not "Siuan." So in that example (I think I'm remembering...) Thom could have said, "that young lady?" or "her?" or "but she's a kid!" or something like that. Instead he commented on her appearance (calling her a slip). I can understand his surprise at her age, though. So why did he not say, "Her? But she's so young!" There's no sexism in that sentence.

 

But that's all back when Thom was alive (or still on screen, so to speak). No need to rehash it (unless you really want to get back into that discussion!).

 

Thanks for reading, everyone!

[UGAShadow]

You have to remember that the women are the only ones who can use the most powerful force in the world anymore. Pretty hard for women to lose their rights when she can blast your head off.

[Agitel]

Society was blasted way back, but in terms of culture, values and philosophy they weren't completely ruined.

 

I've got two things to say about this. One, how can those things survive an End of the World apocalypse? For example, here in America today we've worked hard to improve women's rights, workers' rights, minorities' rights, and general civil liberties. In a disaster where our CEOs, hipster IT guys, and space shuttle pilots have to start tilling the soil to survive the coming winter we're going to lose a lot of those rights. We're going to lose all that culture, philosophy, and values that say we're all equal. It'll go back to all people who can pick up a plow are equal. Those with guns will be on top and those who can't work die.

 

If I were to guess, people tried to maintain pre-Breaking values (I'm going to pretend there was gender equality before the Breaking because I can do that if I want to ) until people realized that they didn't have to any more. Thus, the beginnings of today's world.

 

Two, that was three thousand years ago. Culture, values, and philosophy change over time. It does in the book. Manetheren (I guess, from the ruins in Shadar Logoth) is something of a Greek or Roman Empire. Then a thousand years or so later you've got Artur Hawkwing's Holy Roman Empire thing going on. Then a thousand years after that you've got the current setting. Modern Andor is culturally different than Hawkwing's empire which was different than Manetheren. At least, I think so. It'd be weird if the setting was exactly the same for three thousand years.

 

And what if women were one of the first to revive a somewhat civilized culture? If something were to happen to the real world right now to destroy civilization, I agree. This world, even the developed part of it, is still struggling to hold women as true equals to men. Even the youth of today are receiving the old biases. What if said biases had been completely eradicated for thousands of years? What if we were a society where women and men were truly considered social equals and then something set us back? Perhaps you're right. Or perhaps women would be just as involved in rebuilding society and the work they did would be just as valued.

 

I don't want to imply that all philosophy and values survived the Age of Legends, but I think Robert Jordan viewed gender inequality as something that gets ingrained into a culture and something that wouldn't just disappear even if gender roles became necessary. Women were able to set themselves up as political and gender equals early, and men had no problem with this, as the idea that they weren't was completely foreign to them. You'll notice also that a lot of the politics involves not just women and men sitting as co-equals in the same political body, but two bodies, one for women, one for men. It sort of guarantees equal influence and gender unions to help enforce some sort of equality. I know you disagree with me on the Two Rivers, but you'll see this pattern repeated. You'll see exceptions to this. In Andorman and Cairhien nobility, you'll find that there's no gender preference on who can head a noble house (though in Andor only a Queen can rule by tradition). You'll also find situations where the genders are not equally represented. However, the 'balanced' structure is something that appears frequently, even outside of the agrarian parts of society.

 

It's not entirely right to say that humankind was blasted back to the stone age, either; perhaps that's bit much. Much of the structured part of civilization was destroyed in the Breaking and the War of Power (which itself destroyed much, even before the Breaking) that continued to be fought among people even after Shai'tan was sealed away, but there were parts of the world that tried to preserve what literature and knowledge that had existed 'before', and people still tried to pass onto their children what knowledge they could, and children would pick up cues on how to act from their parents.

 

I'm not sure I want to comment on the technological progress of the days of Manetheren or Artur Hawkwing unless you'd like me to. I wouldn't say technology has been stagnant for three thousand years.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

you don't have to lose your culture or your values in a diaspora.

[Luckers]

you don't have to lose your culture or your values in a diaspora.

 

The above is the most accurate comment so far on why elements survived.

[RyanL24]

(I don't like the Wheel doing this; it would seem more accurate if a Weaver or Creator or Korean did this next part)

 

How do you come up with this stuff? That was better than LL Cool Tam!!

 

 

Always Sunny, I just want to say that I've enjoyed reading your blog as much as I enjoy reading the book. I can't imagine reading the way you do though.

 

 

I just read the story that RJ/BS are giving to us. I don't look for mistakes in time lines, or analyze the writing or speculate on what will or will not happen. I just enjoy the story for what it is.

 

 

After reading a whole bunch of threads on this site... I get the feeling I'm not going to fit in.

[Elend]

I move for declaring Bran al'Vere the leader of the Two Rivers mafia BTW. I've always been confused how he seems so well off in the town and now I got it.

 

(other possibility in my mind is he owns a farm and has refugees from various wars working them at a slave wage)

 

(possibility two is that he's the only one that knows what Two Rivers tabac sells for outside the Two Rivers and, because of this, merchants and peddlers pay him a silence fee)

[Always Sunny]

You have to remember that the women are the only ones who can use the most powerful force in the world anymore. Pretty hard for women to lose their rights when she can blast your head off.

 

That's a good point. It makes me think. The only thing I could come up with is that it'd be pretty easy to hate someone who can blast your head off like that. Especially if you knew that her organization was responsible for blowing up the world. And it is easy to take away the rights of someone you hate (even if they fight back; but even if the Aes Sedai did they're down to one city state on an island).

 

 

@cindy: As for the diaspora thing, you're probably right. I can't think of any examples here in the real world since, you know, there hasn't be destroyed before. We could talk about the Jewish Diaspora (the only one that came to mind) but they were exiled from their home into a new society. It wasn't as if they had to fight for survival in a world without hope.

 

But even the Israelites changed when taken by the Babylonians. Their theology gained angels for the first time (the concept of angels being a Persian idea) and then there was the whole "Babylon is evil" anti-empire rhetoric added. Can you blame them for that, though?

 

Even if we skip ahead to Spain when Isabella and Ferdinand kicked all the Jews off the Iberian Peninsula then we still find a drastic change in Judaism. At the time, Sephardi Jews were the cream of the Jewish culture crop. After that diaspora the Sephardi died out (but not completely!) and were replaced by the Ashkenazim.

 

So while, sure, your core values may not change very much, your culture and society definitely will.

 

 

 

On a completely unrelated note, I'm having trouble commenting on my own blog. I write something, post it, and it appears right where it should be. But instead of the normal black text it's a faded gray. How am I supposed to communicate with my readers when it doesn't post normally!

 

 

 

Back on topic. We're still in Rand's POV. He leaves the inn to go see the false Dragon but ends up in Queen Morgase's throne room. From there he's back to the inn and meets up with the rest of the fellowship. I think we've been introduced to what @randscc says is our first politically powerful female, the Queen. Hope you all enjoy it! Thanks for reading.

 

Weaving the Web, The Web Tightens, Old Friends and New Enemies

[UGAShadow]

Oh, the Aes Sedai and the Randland culture HAVE changed over time. You're just not far enough to see the past, ya know.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yay, a new blog post!

 

 

Edit:

 

Part way through your blog post. You might be one of the only people who loves Crossroads of Twilight if you love politics.

 

 

 

Also you are totally underrating how hard it is to find out you're adopted. If Tam isn't his father he has a right to be a little angsty.

[Elend]

What will Master Gill do with an Aes Sedai body in his attic when Elaida's thugs pound on his inn door?

 

He'll grind the body up into sausages and serve them to his customers.

 

While on the topic of Gill I actually think you hit something here. It isn't ever outright stated but I think I agree with you assumption that he's part of something of a spy-network.

 

Monarchies giving out welfare isn't as crazy as it sounds. The idea, when they do it, is to prevent/stop riots and combat the potential rise of democratic parties. It also makes good propaganda.

[A2597]

OK, your comment on Elayne being Paris Hilton made me laugh, oh so very accurate. (Although, she has something of a work ethic...more stubbornness than anything as you have already noted - she isn't all bad. Just...yea. Paris Hilton. hahahahaha)

 

Loved your thoughts on Basil Gill, that actually is going to have me re-reading portions of the books to look for evidence in support of this theory.

[mpk22]

I too chuckled at the Paris Hilton thing. Never quite thought about her in those terms but it does make sense. And Perrin being emo??? That NEVER happens. LOL. And interesting take on Elaida and Rand's reaction to her. I'll be curious whether she does end up in your "like" column. There are definite opinions on her from longtime readers, myself included. Don't want to spoil though.