First Time Reading the First Book

[Sleeper]

Haha, I'm going to be really interested as to how you like Mat later on in the series. I expect several angry blog rants from you about him, cuz if there's one male character who can be classified as a womanizer, it's him. However, there's also a reason he's a favorite of people here, and it's not the womanizing.

 

I'm looking forward to hopefully seeing some of your viewpoints change in the future as you continue reading the series, but most of all I hope you enjoy the series. Think anything you want of the story/characters, that all the males are lecherous molesters who put women in their place all the time or that the Aes Sedai is Al Qaeda (I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that one ), as long as you enjoy the series and have a good time with it. That's all that really matters in the end.

[Always Sunny]

maybe it takes a lifetime of reading standard sci-fi and fantasy to appreciate what RJ accomlished in terms of giving women a meaningful role in a story of this kind. maybe it's something you can't understand if you don't know the genre, or particularly care for it.

 

for me, reading the eye of the world was the first time i ever felt a fantasy novel . . . welcomed? included? acknowledged the existence and importance of? ... women in the universe at all. it was the first time i ever read a great work of fantasy that had anything to do with me. i'm delighted that it will be there for future generations of female fantasy readers.

 

I think the first time I saw a woman being important to the story, fictionally speaking, would have been the movie The Abyss. The female lead designed the entire underwater rig. She talks back to the macho soldiers, is respected by the workers, and isn't timid in any way. And spoiler alert, she sacrificed her own life to save her husband. I mean, I had never even heard of a woman dying so her husband can live. Her child, maybe, but her lover? And she did it of her own free will and not because the villain wanted to motivate the hero? It blew my mind.

 

But for non-fiction I'd say it was Wild Heart. It is about Natalie Clifford Barney, the best gal in history (in my very humble opinion). She's one of the people I'd like to have an extended conversation with over dinner. With some red wine. In Paris.

[randsc]

Well, then, you may approve of at least one aspect of life as an Aes Sedai.

[MasterAblar]

maybe it takes a lifetime of reading standard sci-fi and fantasy to appreciate what RJ accomlished in terms of giving women a meaningful role in a story of this kind. maybe it's something you can't understand if you don't know the genre, or particularly care for it.

 

for me, reading the eye of the world was the first time i ever felt a fantasy novel . . . welcomed? included? acknowledged the existence and importance of? ... women in the universe at all. it was the first time i ever read a great work of fantasy that had anything to do with me. i'm delighted that it will be there for future generations of female fantasy readers.

 

I think the first time I saw a woman being important to the story, fictionally speaking, would have been the movie The Abyss. The female lead designed the entire underwater rig. She talks back to the macho soldiers, is respected by the workers, and isn't timid in any way. And spoiler alert, she sacrificed her own life to save her husband. I mean, I had never even heard of a woman dying so her husband can live. Her child, maybe, but her lover? And she did it of her own free will and not because the villain wanted to motivate the hero? It blew my mind.

 

But for non-fiction I'd say it was Wild Heart. It is about Natalie Clifford Barney, the best gal in history (in my very humble opinion). She's one of the people I'd like to have an extended conversation with over dinner. With some red wine. In Paris.

 

 

Well I can think of at least a couple characters you're going to love then.

[Agitel]

Oh! I just remembered something I wanted to mention. A week in "randland" is ten days, this may help when considering the logic behind the time traveled and such. A month is three weeks, or thirty days. Sunday is not a day of the week, but a holiday around the summer solstice (it was mentioned in the beginning of eotw). I'm sure you don't need all the specifics, but knowing the length of the week is probably good.

[randsc]

Oh! I just remembered something I wanted to mention. A week in "randland" is ten days, this may help when considering the logic behind the time traveled and such. A month is three weeks, or thirty days. Sunday is not a day of the week, but a holiday around the summer solstice (it was mentioned in the beginning of eotw). I'm sure you don't need all the specifics, but knowing the length of the week is probably good.

 

Also, the physical descriptions of the characters read differently if you read the glossery entry on units of measure.

[A2597]

Oh! I just remembered something I wanted to mention. A week in "randland" is ten days, this may help when considering the logic behind the time traveled and such. A month is three weeks, or thirty days. Sunday is not a day of the week, but a holiday around the summer solstice (it was mentioned in the beginning of eotw). I'm sure you don't need all the specifics, but knowing the length of the week is probably good.

 

I've read the entire series twice, and some books as many as seven times....and did not know that...

[csarmi]

Why did Egwene, who has shown no reluctance at all to put herself forward, and who as we now know has the ability to do magic, act the way she did in this chapter?

 

Why? I don't know the answer to that either.

[dobraine]

I've heard of a Song of Ice and Fire. It sounds interesting but I can't start on another series until I'm done with

this one. Even if I don't do a write up for all of the Wheel of Time I'm still going to read it. I can't leave a story unfinished!

 

And I hate to say this, but a part of me enjoys ruffling feathers. It isn't a character trait that I'm particularly proud of. But if I were to read and write up another blog like this then I'd want to do it with a book or series that has a divided fanbase. Something like Twilight. That way I can hate on it and I'd have an army of people behind me cheering me on. It wouldn't be like this series, one against everyone else. I've heard people mention Conan the Barbarian and Sword of Truth. I have a real-world friend who knows I'm reading the Wheel of Time and they suggested the Legend of Drizzt series (the name is a real turn off) but I have no idea what that's about other than an evil elf kills things with scimitars. ETA: I used the singular they in that paragraph. It just felt so right.

 

I would suggest learn a little bit more about those two.Especially Sword of Truth I think you might very well

go into v-tach reading about the Mordsith.(My point if you think Wot's gender bias is bad..)

[Randommer]

Okay, I have to weigh in on a few things here.

 

1. The Elyas as a sexual predator thing. Yeah, pretty sure Always Sunny was being ironic. You know, pointing out how if it was the real world and you encountered some beardy guy in the woods who'd been following you and was all 'mmm pretty girl', you would probably think he was a rapist. Well, I would anyway. Sorry, but some people's reactions to that really just cracked me up. Not everything is said seriously all the time.

 

2. Sorry again, but yeah, this is about the sexism thing. I can totally see where Always Sunny's coming from when she says that, apart from main characters, women seem to have pretty subservient roles. I mean, considering the point in the books she's at. Personally I never saw it as an inequality thing, but that's just because of my particular cultural/family history. From what I know of the history of other places though, the 'women stay at home and men work' philosophy did often go with bad things for women in general. So I don't know how RJ meant the power structure of the Two Rivers to be portrayed, but a lot of people must have read it as being quite sexist, even if the rest of the series totally bucked that trend.

 

3. Always Sunny, I have to lol at your observations about Rand having a really bland personality. I remember thinking the same thing myself, but trust me, you'll get to a point where you'll look back in fondness at those times of Rand being...er...boring.

 

Finally, just wanted to say I love the blog. Find it really entertaining.

[mop]

 

 

3. Always Sunny, I have to lol at your observations about Rand having a really bland personality. I remember thinking the same thing myself, but trust me, you'll get to a point where you'll look back in fondness at those times of Rand being...er...boring.

 

Finally, just wanted to say I love the blog. Find it really entertaining.

Yes I find Rand's character arc to be one of the most compelling, although Mat isn't too far behind.

[Sleeper]

 

 

3. Always Sunny, I have to lol at your observations about Rand having a really bland personality. I remember thinking the same thing myself, but trust me, you'll get to a point where you'll look back in fondness at those times of Rand being...er...boring.

 

Finally, just wanted to say I love the blog. Find it really entertaining.

Yes I find Rand's character arc to be one of the most compelling, although Mat isn't too far behind.

I agree. Rand has the best character development/arc, closely followed by Mat.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

 

You abhore violence, rather like the Tinkers (I know youve read that far) and while that is not a bad quality in a person, indeed it is very admirable, like the Tinkers, in the world of the Wheel, peace gets you dead or nowhere

 

This, I think, is important to understanding my point of view. I agree with you up to a point. That point being the very last word in that quote. In the real world and in the world of the Wheel, in the end you end up dead. "You might be a king or a little street sweeper but sooner or later you dance with the Reaper." All that's left behind is how others remember you (and if you're lucky, an old corpse). I don't want to be remembered as a killer, a fighter, a bringer of death. I look down upon those who are killers, who do fight, who bring death.

 

Being peaceful, one will end up dead. Being the greatest warrior of all time? You'll still end up dead. But going nowhere? Where do you want to go? Do you want to go on to glory? To have your named cheered by half the world and cursed by the other? Or would you rather live a simple life and be happy, bring joy to those around you, improve the world a little bit by doing your part, and die knowing that you didn't bring about more suffering than was absolutely necessary? I try (and fail, of course) going for the second one all the time.

 

So, Barid Bel Medar, in the Wheel of Time peace will bring death, no doubt. And it might lead nowhere. But is nowhere really such a bad place? I'm sure I'll find out before the series is over.

 

The point here is people are fighting to protect their families from murderous armies. The world, their families and friends will all be destroyed if they dont take a stand.

 

This is what I think you dont understand, or will not like, abhoring any kind of violence. They arent fighting for glory. They are fighting to survive.

 

They cant just stay peaceful, they will get killed without a second thought.

 

So what is worse? Not fighting, being peaceful, and having everything you ever love destroyed. Or fighting to protect the innocent, so that people can once more live in peace.

[Shawnchan]

Wow.

 

Apparently a lot of people take both themselves and this story far too self importantly.

 

Get over yourselves (certain) people.

 

Your job does NOT make you a hero or a literary genius.

 

The thing that makes people great is diversity.

 

Sunny. Ignore the sheeple. Keep on keeping on. You have a faithful following and, we love your observations.

[Sleeper]

Wow.

 

Apparently a lot of people take both themselves and this story far too self importantly.

 

Get over yourselves (certain) people.

 

Your job does NOT make you a hero or a literary genius.

 

The thing that makes people great is diversity.

 

Sunny. Ignore the sheeple. Keep on keeping on. You have a faithful following and, we love your observations.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with people having a different opinion and expressing it on a public forum. I disagree with Sunny on quite a few things and I will definitely make it clear if I feel I should. That's kinda what these forums are for.

 

If someone doesn't want criticism, don't write blogs.

[csarmi]

As the posts are already written, can we get a new one everyday?

[Always Sunny]

Wow.

 

Apparently a lot of people take both themselves and this story far too self importantly.

 

Get over yourselves (certain) people.

 

Your job does NOT make you a hero or a literary genius.

 

The thing that makes people great is diversity.

 

Sunny. Ignore the sheeple. Keep on keeping on. You have a faithful following and, we love your observations.

 

 

Thanks for the kind support, Shawnchan. Though, I wouldn't think of my readers as a "faithful following." They're just folks reading a blog whenever they get a chance. They're welcome to read it all or half of it or even none of it. I appreciate all of them, no matter.

 

But I don't want to ignore the sheeple. I mean, haters gotta hate, sure. But I don't want to ignore them. I don't want to live in a bubble, to have what I write to go completely unchallenged. Let people object just as people agree. I make a lot of jokes and don't expect parts to be take too seriously (I won't lie, though: I am a feminist in the real world and these issues do bug me, comically exaggerated as they may be in the blog).

 

 

@csarmi I could post one every day but that leads to two problems. One, I lose my buffer. It'll get to point at which people will wait three or four days between posts because I'm doing something other than writing these blogs. Already, thanks to a game called Minecraft and a pile of other books I have on my desk, I'll reach this point some time in late April or early May. Unless I take a weekend to fill up my buffer, again.

 

Two, I don't want to be completely clueless here on the forum. Everyone else has this huge advantage when it comes to reading ahead so if I'm half a book ahead of where the blog is then I have that much more room to argue. For example, I know that Shienar has a king but that culture it devoted to the Aes Sedai but Andor has a queen and its people is split in its support of the witches. So when we argue about sexism in government I have a better idea of the politics than if I were still sitting on the Spray with Rand. So while the blogs themselves are still done in a paragraph-by-paragraph way, the forum conversations aren't. Spoilers are going to come out, people can't help it (Like people saying that I'll like Mat in later book; that means the cursed dagger isn't going to kill him in book 1 or 2; that means all of his angst and worry don't matter because I know he's going to get better; that makes me not like him because I just want to tell him to suck it up). This way I'm slightly more prepared for that, too.

 

Does that make any sense or am I as confusing as I normally am?

[icspots]

Sunny, to help with spoilers how about adding a signature saying what point in the books you're up to. When you read more update it to where you are, that way people can see at a glance what would spoil and what wouldn't.

 

As to being a feminist...... if the writing of wheel of time is bothering you this much then you may want to forgo reading A Song of Ice and Fire.

[Erunion]

You're job doesn't make you a hero, but it's hard to do certain jobs and not be a hero. I have immense respect for just about everybody in the emergency services (Police, Fire, Ambulance), and frankly, you should too.

 

Also, yeah, keep us updated on where you are Sunny, I really don't want to spoil the fun (I fear I may have already...)

[Pantherus]

Right I've finally caught up on all the discussions here and read the whole blog to date - I've read the entire series to date and am now re-reading from the start to have another go through it so have just finished EotW from an experienced WoT'er's perspective.

 

Just want to make a few points from my perspective:

 

1) Love the blog! Let's be clear on that - as you'll see I disagree with you on several things, some quite strongly so - but overall I still appreciate your position and agree that you're welcome to your opinion. I'm literaly laughing out loud at several of the comments you've made in the blog so I'm loving it overall.

 

2) You've looked at some groups from thoroughly the wrong position - ironically you're looking at the world from a viewpoint closest to the Whitecloaks...IMO your view of Aes Sedai as being al'Qaeda is WAY off - a relative mix of Jedi and Illuminati is much closer to public perception overall. There is a group that could be defined as al'Qaeda...but they appear later :) As for the Whitecloaks - well KKK isn't far off, just much more public and organised - probably mix the Mob with KKK...

 

3) You seem to be using circular logic in some of your viewpoints which stemmed from your initial assumptions - so you see Moiraine as an "evil witch" (you've said you're a RL feminist so I'm actually stunned that you've been using 'Witch' as such a derogatory term for her) and are then seeing EVERYTHING she does with the mask that she's evil over it...then conveniently gloss over the nice stuff she does. The irony is that, with some characters, you've happily said "wow, I was so wrong about him/her" while others you've locked them into a category and damned if anything's going to change that perception...

 

4) Small tips - people in this world cover all kinds of combinations of intent and execution - there are people with good hearts who are just dicks; people who are evil and nasty but seem lovely (right up until the knife comes out); people who look evil and are evil (gets rarer as time goes on, ironically) and all kinds of inbetween. People who firmly believe they're on the force of "good" while their actions 100% help the "bad guys", and vice versa - then you have bad guys come out who deliberately help the "good guys" for their own purposes; people who try things that quite literally just don't work out (something I love about these books, people genuinely make mistakes - the saying "Nobody's Perfect" rings so true in these books - they're all flawed in various ways, which is why we all have different favourites and most hated). All I'm saying is try to keep an open mind with EVERYONE you come across in the books, just because someone's a prat, or creepy, doesn't mean they're up to no good. Side note about how seriourly you took Mat's pranks - pranks, almost by definition, are done without considering the consequences, especially the indirect ones. YOu saw his prank with the flour dogs and when haywire on the damage caused, etc etc - he didn't even THINK about all that (if he really had he wouldn't have done it in the first place), he just thought it was a laugh.

 

5) I'm not going to wade into the sexism debates - too much relies on opinion and perception to be really debatable. Do realise, though, that a) this first book in particular is not supposed to be a socio-political analysis of gender equality; and b) Rand in particular really is an over-protectics, chauvanistic, prat - as others have said, it becomes a prominent personality flaw of his that gets him into all kinds of trouble. Many upcoming chapters from female viewpoints show their opinions of males as extremely derogatory. It's like a Woman's magazine we have here in NZ that has a section called "Mere Males" where woman have sent in stories of dumb things their husbands/boyfriends/brothers/etc have said/done for them to titter about...if a Men's magazine had the same thing about the women in their lives there'd be an uproar of sexism...I'm not for a second attacking your opinions/viewpoints in the matter (I was brought up by my VERY feminist mother so generally have a lot more understanding) but just throwing that out there.

 

6) Lan's a dick...sure...but he really is that damn good :) Just had to say that one - just because someone's an arrogant prat, doesn't mean they can't be doing their best to help the world...and doesn't mean they're right or wrong either...hehe...it's this kind of second- (and third-) guessing that gives so many of us such massive head trips when certain revelations hit us :)

 

7) Keep up the good work!!

 

8) (EDIT) As for wanting to read a song of fire and ice - yeah based on your reactions to this book I would NOT go near those ones...the socio-political stuff is RAMPANT through that series. Some people love it - I read the first 2 books and just got sick of the "nasty guys" winning again and again and again and again...just irritated me so much that the casual enjoyment reading was making me angry...

[Always Sunny]

Thank you, Pantherus! Thanks for reading and laughing and joining the discussion.

 

(you've said you're a RL feminist so I'm actually stunned that you've been using 'Witch' as such a derogatory term for her)

 

I wasn't using witch as a clever way of saying bitch. I just didn't want to say wizards and Aes Sedai over and over again. That gets monotonous after a while. Witch is great in that it has one syllable (so witch, wizard, and Aes Sedai are like 1, 2, and 3; I couldn't do that with "sorcerer") and it starts with a "w" (so I can get some alliteration in there with "witches and wives and Warders and Whitecloaks"; I couldn't do that with "mage"). So it wasn't meant to be derogatory but I am sorry that I came across that way.

 

This next part you wrote about Moiraine made me think:

 

and are then seeing EVERYTHING she does with the mask that she's evil over it...then conveniently gloss over the nice stuff she does.

 

I don't think I gloss over them (lately, as I'm writing the newest blog posts, I've been bringing up every little detail in an effort to gloss over as little as possible; the posts are getting longer as a result) I make excuses for them. I mean, check this out:

 

4) Small tips - people in this world cover all kinds of combinations of intent and execution - there are people with good hearts who are just dicks; people who are evil and nasty but seem lovely (right up until the knife comes out);

 

Moiraine seems distant, driven, and she shows a hint of having a soft spot in her heart for the Two Rivers Boys. I can see her as being a good guy in a bad world afraid of showing her hand for fear of being found out and defeated. While she doesn't seem "lovely" she seems as if she has potential to be a heroine. So my warning bells go off. "People who are evil and nasty but seem lovely" is right. Moiraine is shaping up to be a good guy so she must have something wrong with her. Hehe.

 

And people with good hearts but act like dicks? Yeah, I call them dicks. People who are creepy but on the side of good are still creepy. What was it that Batman said? It's not who you are underneath but what you do that defines you. If, for example, you look up Lan in the dictionary it says "see: dick." That's how he's defined. I don't think it matters what you feel on the inside, you know? I think it's how you treat the people around you that is really important.

 

In my dictionary, at least.

 

Do realise, though, that a) this first book in particular is not supposed to be a socio-political analysis of gender equality; and b) Rand in particular really is an over-protectics, chauvanistic, prat - as others have said, it becomes a prominent personality flaw of his that gets him into all kinds of trouble.

 

Ha! Don't you realize that by commenting you've just jumped into the sexism debate? It's a trap!

 

But seriously, just because something wasn't meant to be an analysis doesn't mean it can't be analyzed. Homer didn't write the Iliad to be one of the defining pieces of Western literature, to be analyzed and studied for over two thousand years. Not that the Eye of the World is like the Iliad. I'm sure Twilight wasn't written to be studied in a feminist light but it still is. I don't think Harry Potter was meant to be critiqued by the Christian Right but it was.

 

And that second part of your quote is something I don't get about some of the hate I'm getting. Rand is acting sexist towards women. Everyone agrees. Everyone says it comes back to bite him in the ass. So what's wrong with me pointing it out now and hating it now? Should I wait until other characters in the story hate it before I start to? And here I thought I was ahead of the curve.

 

I read the first 2 books and just got sick of the "nasty guys" winning again and again and again and again...just irritated me so much that the casual enjoyment reading was making me angry...

 

That's one of the problems I'm having with the Eye of the World. The good guys cannot lose. They literally cannot lose. Every injury they have sustained has been Healed by magic. The Dark One couldn't kill or capture them now, when they are powerless children in the middle of nowhere (so how can he hope to defeat them when they become a wolf man, two of the most powerful witches in the world, an Old Blood stutterer, and whatever Rand is becoming?). Every tight spot they get in reality will warp itself to let the heroes find a way out (I believe the Ogier call it "ta'varen"). I'd like to see the bad guy win something (they couldn't even kill Thom!).

 

I've looked up a Song of Ice and Fire and it seems interesting. It doesn't seem to have the same focus on magic and super-humans. And sexism in the in-universe society isn't that big of a problem for me (believe it or not). I was mostly bothered by the other readers who didn't acknowledge the sexism that I was seeing. Sexism is rife in the real world and I love biographies and socio-political analysis. But it doesn't matter since I won't be reading any other fantasy until I'm done with these books (I bought Books 1, 2, and 3 so we'll see where things go after that).

 

 

 

Anyway! I've got my next blog up. It isn't as long as some of the other ones. In fact, it only covers two chapters. I cut it up so that I can get everything I need in one entry for Friday's post. So you guys only get two chapters today. But, don't worry! These two are pretty good. Also, I think this is the first post written after I started talking with the forum people.

 

Rand, Mat, and Thom are disembarking from the Spray and "enjoying" themselves in Whitebridge. Perrin, Egwene, and Elyas are with the Tinkers. I think we all know just how giddy I am about the Tinkers. Super cool. Here's the link:

 

Traveling People and Whitebridge

 

ETA: Oh, and I think you all wanted to know where I am in my reading (and not just my writings). I'm at the point where Rand, Mat, Perrin, and Ingtar are starting off on their search for Padan Fain while Nynaeve, Egwene, Lan, and Moiraine are heading to Tar Valon with the Amyrlin Seat and company. I don't have the book here with me but I'm somewhere between page 150 and 200. Chapter 7 or 8 or 9. I can't remember.

[A2597]

Trust us, Fades are badass. That was more a surprise of "What the? Is he nuts?" than anything else. Picture it with an annoyed smirk than anything else. Thom is no match for a Fade, be like a 5 year old attacking an armored soldier.

[Pygmalion79]

Trust us, Fades are badass. That was more a surprise of "What the? Is he nuts?" than anything else. Picture it with an annoyed smirk than anything else. Thom is no match for a Fade, be like a 5 year old attacking an armored soldier.

I think that we've been given plenty of indications that Thom is not quite that helpless.

[Always Sunny]

I think that we've been given plenty of indications that Thom is not quite that helpless.

 

I don't think so. He didn't participate in the Winternight attack (though he did help out a bit in the aftermath). He didn't help in the escape from Baerlon (in fact, no one but Moiraine did anything in that escape). He did toss a few knives at some Trollocs as they fled Shadar Logoth but that was while the Trollocs were running away from him (so he got them in their backs). He's never been in a fight like this before in this book. Later we'll learn that he was a Court Bard but that doesn't sound like a combat MOS to me.

[A2597]

Trust us, Fades are badass. That was more a surprise of "What the? Is he nuts?" than anything else. Picture it with an annoyed smirk than anything else. Thom is no match for a Fade, be like a 5 year old attacking an armored soldier.

I think that we've been given plenty of indications that Thom is not quite that helpless.

 

Spoilers of course follow...

 

 

Yes, but while Thom may be able to kill a man, or several...a fade is very different. Thom's true weapons have never been his knives.