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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

icspots

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  1. good catch. I’d also forgotten completely about that. It states outright she had been back to the Tower (no Aes Sedai twisting). Of course it could have been after Fal Dara and before she ends up with Adelaes and Vandene. we know Moiraine did the pass-the-bond weave to Myrelle at some point, and per Myrelle she was specifically supposed to pass it to Nynaeve once she was raised to the shawl. Obviously she couldn’t have set up passing it to Nynaeve before going to Emonds Field. I always assumed she set up the bond passing before going to Emonds Field, then sent Myrelle a message after tEotW. at the risk of not supporting the Moiraine-returned-to the WT after NS viewpoint the quote could just show that Moiraine and LAN went to the WT after Fal Dara. Doesn’t make much sense since the Amyrlin and Co went straight to the WT from Fal Dara and Moiraine left them before they got there.
  2. You aren’t’ supposed to be able to sense another person using the TP, only see the effects.
  3. I still don’t see the connection the way you do. The Hall suggested the discipline for Moiraine not because of the angreal, or because of leaving against the Amyrlin’s orders. They were suggesting it because of Elaida’s report that Moiraine was meddling with a dangerous ta’veren. As quoted above, the discussion about punishing Moiraine for that exact reason takes place in a separate chapter, and eight pages before the mention of the angreal. The angreal is only mentioned as an “oh by the way” when Moiraine brings it up.
  4. No one is disputing your points regarding the circumstances of Moiraine leaving the Tower in NS. I’m just pointing out there isn’t solid textev that she never returned, and enough other textev to suggest she may have at some point.
  5. Yes, Siuan specifically says this to Moiraine, but you have the context wrong. The Great Hunt - Summoned - Siuan to Moiraine ”Elaida had another reason for coming to Tar Valon, Daughter. She sent the same message by six different pigeons to make sure I received it - and to whom else in Tar Valon she sent pigeons, I can only guess - then came herself. She told the Hall of the Tower that you are meddling with a young man who is ta’veren, and dangerous. he was in Camlyn, she said, but when she found the inn where he had been staying, she discovered you had spirited him away.” Moiraine says she hopes Elaida caused the innkeeper (Basil Gill) no harm, and Siuan goes on to say that Elaida harms no one except those are dangerous (darkfriends, male channelers, those who would harm the Tower), then further that Elaida said Rand was more dangerous than any man since Arthur Hawkwing, has the Fortelling and her words carry weight in the Hall. Moiraine admits she has three young men with her but none are a king ”Yes, Daughter. Village youths, so Lord Agelmar tells me. But one of them is ta’veren.” The Amyrlin’s eyes strayed to the flattened cube again. “It was put forward in the Hall that you should be sent into retreat for contemplation. This was proposed by one of the Sitters for the Green Agah, with the other two nodding approval as she spoke” So here we see the progression -Elaida meets Rand -Moiraine escapes Caemlyn to the Ways -Elaida finds Rand gone, sends six messenger pigeons and then goes in person to Tar Valon -Elaida tells the Hall that Moiraine is meddling with a dangerous young man who is ta’veren -The Greens propose a punishment for Moiraine for having meddled with the young man -Moiraine is now considered unreliable and the Hall wants back the angreal she has There’s eight pages and a chapter divide between the discussion of the proposal to recall Moiraine and Siuan saying the Hall wanted the angreal back because Moiraine was now considered “unreliable”, so I don’t think you can make an argument that they were going to punish her for having the angreal.
  6. There were better options in the Damodred line, but with the support of the Tower her less than direct claim probably would have been sustained. As it is the throne passed from house Damodred to Riatan (unless there was another monarch in there somewhere). ”20 years” is a convenient rounding up. The “Hunt” for the boy-child began with Gitara’s Fortelling, then within months she was on the road tracking down names. 18 years later the events of tEotW occur, and take much of the year. By the time Siuan and Co. Arrive in Fal Dara it’s been nearly 19 years ...... so 20 years isn’t that much of a stretch.
  7. I’m sorry, but that one statement from Siuan doesn’t state she hadn’t returned ever, or give a timeframe for when she sent those two messages. To be fair there also isn’t a direct statement I’m aware of which says she did. Only the circumstantial tid bits I’ve noted. Yes, the Hall wanted very strongly to sit a full Aes Sedai on the Sun Throne after Laman’s death, and the death of Moiraine’s uncles. Those events caused a power vacuum in Cairhien and made placing her there an option. And yes that was one reason Moiraine fled the Tower. But once the Succession figured itself out and a monarch was crowned (was that Galldrain, or was there another person before him) being forced to become queen wouldn’t have been an issue. New Spring - Moiraine fleeing the Tower ”They could not put her on the Sun Throne, now. By the time the Hall found her, another would be secure in it. And she was off to find the boy-child. She was off on an adventure as grand as any ever undertaken by an Aes Sedai” As to the angreal you need to provide textev that she had it with her in New Spring. There’s any number of times she thinks on her lack of full power in New Spring, and having an angreal would’ve help even the odds in the situations where she was most threatened. She left the Tower precipitously after getting Sieran to reassign the distribution of the Bounty to someone else, and Sieran told her to stick around because they’d have another task for her (being crowned), so not like she had time to go to the angreal library and check one out. I really don’t think Moiraine left the Tower before being raised. One I don’t believe there’s textev for it. Two as stated multiple times throughout the books the Tower doesn’t let Novices or Accepted out without significant reason (Siuan sending the super girls out was unthinkable for the Tower as a whole), and the Tower does not care or pander to noble titles an initiate has. Think on Elaine’s treatment as not only a noble, but as a Crown Princess of a realm super friendly to the Tower.
  8. I still think the evidence is circumstantial. Yes Siuan states she’s only received two messages from her since she left the Tower, but she doesn’t say when Moiraine last left the Tower. There are a few tid bits in support of Moiraine having returned to the Tower since New Spring. At the end of New Spring Moiraine sends Siuan back to the tower to work with the Blue’s Eyes and Ears, look out for signs of the Black Ajah, etc. They have no concrete plans at this point besides finding the boy child. So in the 20 years they developed those plans, and somehow I doubt they decided to communicate by messenger/bird their plans given how anyone who intercepted those plans would tend to react. The quote above clearly states they had plans. We know from Moiraine’s message to Siuan after Rand took Callandor that anything they’d communicate that way would be short and non-specific riddles. “The Sling has been used. The Shepard holds the sword” or some such. Not a lot of concrete planning being communicated that way. Lan has a warder cloak, made from a Ter’Angreal which is in the Tower. I’m sure there might be some way for Moiraine to arrange to have a cloak shipped out somewhere for her, so that could go either way. The Great Hunt - The Shadow in Shienar - in reference to Healing Mat of the Shadar Logoth dagger ”Leanne will do for one, and I can find another.” Suddenly the Amyrlin Seat gave a wry grin. “The Hall wants that angreal back, Moiraine. There are not very many of them left, and you are now considered...unreliable.” Moiraine has an angreal which she did not have in New Spring. An angreal is not something the Hall would likely allow to be sent out by courier given how rare and valuable they are, so it’s suggestive she picked it up in person. Moiraine thinks in New Spring that she wouldn’t return to the Tower until she attained her full strength, something which she did between NS, and tEotW. This was, I believe, in relation to an encounter with Cadsuane, but I don’t have the quote handy at the moment. New Spring - A Narrow Passage - Moiraine thinking to herself ”Sisters did slip in and out of the Tower quietly sometimes” The Great Hunt - Summoned - Anaiya to Moraine ”This time, Moiraine,” Anaiya said, “you have been gone from Tar Valon too long. Much too long. Tar Valon misses you. Your sisters miss you. And you are needed in the White Tower.” emphasis mine Assuming Moiraine never returned to the Tower after New Spring Anaiya saying Moiraine had been away too long “this time” doesn’t make sense. I can’t remember from New Spring if Moiraine ever left the tower after enrolling as a Novice, just that she and Siuan arrived the same day, and progressed in lockstep with three years each as Novice and Accepted. There are multiple comments throughout the series that the Tower didn’t lightly let Novices or Accepted out of it’s control. It does strongly imply that she has returned other time(s) in the last 20 years, and that this particular time away has been especially long. An extended time off the grid would also align with Siuan’s displeasure in only receiving the two messages.
  9. I pre-ordered the standard hardcover through amazon on the 3rd and it arrived on the 8th in the afternoon.
  10. Like meltdown said you're not remembering it accurately. He addressed the other points, but I wanted to mention that he doesn't channel at all, or get sick when the DF "lady" tries to kill him in the barn. After the lightning incident they stop for Rand to play flute. While negotiating their deal Rand becomes sick as a channeling reaction and Mat bullies the innkeeper into letting them bunk in the barn. Then the DF tries to kill them and Mat stops her with the SL dagger before throwing her dagger into a bucket of water (causing it to boil). Rand had little to nothing to do with stopping her attack.
  11. The 'extra bit' was the kiss. Apparently that action became a part of the bonding process for Asha'man as it was developed by married couples trying to be closer together. It's the same sort of issue with Aes Sedai who cannot throw fireballs without a throwing gesture. They learned the weave with the physical component so they can't do it without. As to the compulsion the only difference seems that Male -> Female bondings seem to exert much more control (when exercised) than Female -> Male bonds. All Aes Sedai bonds have the ability to compel their Warders to do things, though Aes Sedai (at least most of those we've seen POV's of) seem to see it as a bit of a failure if they need to use it. Back to the great control I assume that the increased control in M->F bonds is just another of the balance things similar to F->M bonds being unable to compel male channelers.
  12. Aginor was a geneticist in the AOL, so no he didn't use only the OP. Actually I believe the Shadowspawn were made by blending human and animal stock with a dash of the True Power. In any case, yes there is a certain level of technology he would need to continue to do his scientific work. Remember in the AOL you didn't have to be a channeler to be a big shot scientist. Sure you could do more or other things (plus you lived for 600 years) than a non-channeler, but otherwise it was almost incidental.
  13. Only his battles with Ishammael, Be'lal and Rahvin took place in TAR. His battle with Sammael and Asmodean did not. Other than the 'lost hand' scene he hasn't directly confronted Semi, and I don't think anyone could claim he really fought with Lanfear (though he did have several TAR scenes with her).
  14. Like others have said the DO can't currently resurrect his followers who died in the AoL, or who have died while he was bound by the seals. He has a finite time in which to resurrect them after they die. This is why someone killed with balefire can't* be resurrected since they were die before they were killed (*Technically RJ said a BF'd person couldn't be resurrected unless the amount used was very small, thus a very slight reduction in the amount of time the DO has to work in........ this is why there are still theories that put Be'lal back into play since Moiraine could only kill someone a few seconds earlier). I say currently because there's no proof that he didn't resurrect his followers way back when before he was sealed up.... nothing saying he did either. Both are sort of correct... they're synonyms. All Aes Sedai who turned to the Dark One during the War of Power were called Forsaken....... by the Light. They called themselves The Chosen. So both Forsaken and Chosen mean the same thing. Sort of like "The Dark One" vs. "The Great Lord", it all just depends on your alignment. All the others were forgotten over the course of 3,000 years. The 13 who were sealed were remembered only because of their association with the sealing of the DO's prison. Even then that became legend and turned into incomprehensible sayings....... I mean how could the Forsaken be bound by the creator at the moment of creation if they'd been free in the AoL?
  15. Not really a comment on Egwene vs Perring, but something I've thought about for awhile. Perrin, aside from issues choosing between the hammer and axe, never seems to have the issue in TAR of his clothing, etc. constantly changing. Every other person we see in TAR outside of those who've done exhaustive training has this issue and it's pointed out in the POV's repeatedly. So does Perrin not do this because he's a wolfbrother? Because he always went 'too strongly'? Some other reason?
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