Loose Ends

[Kalm]

Didn't read through the whole topic (too sleepy). Will edit in my response over time. However...

 

What a worm and the grown up stage of a worm look like and why they're so terrifying. If they're the most terrible of Shadowspawn ever mentioned in the series, shouldn't they be at the LB? Speaking of Shadowspawn, what else does the DO have up his sleeve?

 

Trollocs

Gholams (no more of these, thank God)

Myrdraal

Draghkar

Dark Hounds

Jumara (worms)

Grey Men

 

The Jumara only ones we haven't seen. I want to know why they're so terrible. And why big, bad Sammael considered the grown up Jumara even worse.

[akira.taylor]

Didn't read through the whole topic (too sleepy). Will edit in my response over time. However...

 

What a worm and the grown up stage of a worm look like and why they're so terrifying. If they're the most terrible of Shadowspawn ever mentioned in the series, shouldn't they be at the LB? Speaking of Shadowspawn, what else does the DO have up his sleeve?

 

Trollocs

Gholams (no more of these, thank God)

Myrdraal

Draghkar

Dark Hounds

Jumara (worms)

Grey Men

 

The Jumara only ones we haven't seen. I want to know why they're so terrible. And why big, bad Sammael considered the grown up Jumara even worse.

 

Actually, juvenial jumara are scary, but worms are worse. Whether a mature jumara (which apparently requires something that the ones living in the Blight don't get) is a worm is unclear. The Forsaken seem to think that calling juvenial jumara worms is ammussing.

Really, all we know about juvenial jumara is that Moiraine says that they won't follow the characters over the high passes, and that Lan can't take a pack of them. Oh, and they whistle, and everything else south of the high passes hides from them.

[Ashandarei]

Didn't read through the whole topic (too sleepy). Will edit in my response over time. However...

 

What a worm and the grown up stage of a worm look like and why they're so terrifying. If they're the most terrible of Shadowspawn ever mentioned in the series, shouldn't they be at the LB? Speaking of Shadowspawn, what else does the DO have up his sleeve?

 

Trollocs

Gholams (no more of these, thank God)

Myrdraal

Draghkar

Dark Hounds

Jumara (worms)

Grey Men

 

The Jumara only ones we haven't seen. I want to know why they're so terrible. And why big, bad Sammael considered the grown up Jumara even worse.

 

Actually, juvenial jumara are scary, but worms are worse. Whether a mature jumara (which apparently requires something that the ones living in the Blight don't get) is a worm is unclear. The Forsaken seem to think that calling juvenial jumara worms is ammussing.

Really, all we know about juvenial jumara is that Moiraine says that they won't follow the characters over the high passes, and that Lan can't take a pack of them. Oh, and they whistle, and everything else south of the high passes hides from them.

 

I doubt we'll see them. I get the feeling this is a "figs and mice" situation created by RJ.

[Annia]

Random bits & pieces:

- We'll never know if/when Liandrin's heavy shield by Moghedien is removed

- We won't have much time to hear about the major darkfriend among the Aiel many here have suspected

- We won't hear much about the 60+ black ajah that escaped the WT. only a small number were killed during the battle against messaana.

- We won't hear from Elaida again (thank god!)

- We won't hear much about all the smallish Ashaman that we love : Narishma, Flinn, Androll...

- We won't read about Morgase (is she in a trolloc cookpot in Caemlyn, by the way ?)

- We won't hear about the power struggle between lelaine and Romanda (pray that Egwene dies so that we get to see that start again).

- We won't read much about the Atahan'miere

- We'll never hear about Berelain's boobs again.

 

Any thoughts about those ?

Berelain's boobs? No, I can't say that I've dedicated a lot of time to those recently...

[Annia]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

 

It would cheapen the victory of Cleansing if the men couldn't channel afterwards.

[capuga]

To be honest, a true end would have the one power blocked along with the DO.

That would change the world massively.

And be a conclusion that would make sense.

 

I can't even begin to explain how depressing that would be... the loss of the OP that is.

 

 

Why, because the WoT is enjoyable because of the magic? Not in my book...

I think that having the source removed from the grasp of everyone in the world of the WoT makes for a fantastic finish.

And I'm not sure that RJ didn't imagine that too.

No gateways, no OP to use for almost everything, so many people that can use (and abuse) the OP.

It makes too much sense.

 

It would cheapen the victory of Cleansing if the men couldn't channel afterwards.

 

I started a thread on the General board that asks if there will be channeling after the Last Battle. Here's my thoughts from that thread:

 

Personally, I think the series has been building towards a new golden age of channeling once the Last Battle is won. Let's look at some of the things that have happened:

 

- Lots of lost Talents such as Traveling and improved Healing have been rediscovered.

- The making of ter'angreal has been rediscovered.

- The existence of channeling groups among various races has been discovered and Egwene plans to tie them all together.

- Saidin is clean and there is now a male channeling organization.

- Men and women have been bonding each other and starting to work together.

- RJ spent a long time building up Egwene to be an awesome Amyrlin and reunite the Tower. Why all that work if she will be irrelevant in a few months?

 

To me, I think the plot has been obviously progressing to have a golden age of channeling after the Last Battle with some improved technology thrown in for the non-channelers.

[Beidomon]

Aes Sedai organization of people that can not channel?! This would be a really huge stretch IMO. What would they do? What would be the source of their authority?

 

Sniffing, planting hands on hips, crossing arms beneath breasts, smoothing skirts.... That's the true source of Aes Sedai authority. None of that has to change.

 

I also think the best ending would be that access to the One Power is somehow sealed away in closing the bore. I'm not saying its a happy ending (except for taking those snotty Aes Sedai down a peg or two), but it just makes sense with the end of the age. The Age of Legends is only one age removed, so it's too early for that age to return. Herid Fel's academy strongly indicates that the next age will be more technological than magical.

 

Even better, what if the saidar gets tainted this time? That'd be fun.

[Brammeri]

Aes Sedai organization of people that can not channel?! This would be a really huge stretch IMO. What would they do? What would be the source of their authority?

 

Sniffing, planting hands on hips, crossing arms beneath breasts, smoothing skirts.... That's the true source of Aes Sedai authority. None of that has to change.

 

I also think the best ending would be that access to the One Power is somehow sealed away in closing the bore. I'm not saying its a happy ending (except for taking those snotty Aes Sedai down a peg or two), but it just makes sense with the end of the age. The Age of Legends is only one age removed, so it's too early for that age to return. Herid Fel's academy strongly indicates that the next age will be more technological than magical.

 

Even better, what if the saidar gets tainted this time? That'd be fun.

 

 

I don't see what problem fans on here have with that scenario, other than a deep desire that the WoT books continue.

Why should that happen?

RJ is dead (RIP) and Brandon Sanderson has his own career.

The WoT books need to end on a definitive ending to the current age. Not a return to the Age of Legends.

[idiostock]

Random bits & pieces:

- We'll never know if/when Liandrin's heavy shield by Moghedien is removed

- We won't have much time to hear about the major darkfriend among the Aiel many here have suspected

- We won't hear much about the 60+ black ajah that escaped the WT. only a small number were killed during the battle against messaana.

- We won't hear from Elaida again (thank god!)

- We won't hear much about all the smallish Ashaman that we love : Narishma, Flinn, Androll...

- We won't read about Morgase (is she in a trolloc cookpot in Caemlyn, by the way ?)

- We won't hear about the power struggle between lelaine and Romanda (pray that Egwene dies so that we get to see that start again).

- We won't read much about the Atahan'miere

- We'll never hear about Berelain's boobs again.

 

Any thoughts about those ?

Berelain's boobs? No, I can't say that I've dedicated a lot of time to those recently...

I certainly have.

 

 

 

 

Nah, but Berelain is one of the only female characters I can stand any more.

[herid]

Aes Sedai organization of people that can not channel?! This would be a really huge stretch IMO. What would they do? What would be the source of their authority?

 

Sniffing, planting hands on hips, crossing arms beneath breasts, smoothing skirts.... That's the true source of Aes Sedai authority. None of that has to change.

 

I also think the best ending would be that access to the One Power is somehow sealed away in closing the bore. I'm not saying its a happy ending (except for taking those snotty Aes Sedai down a peg or two), but it just makes sense with the end of the age. The Age of Legends is only one age removed, so it's too early for that age to return. Herid Fel's academy strongly indicates that the next age will be more technological than magical.

 

Even better, what if the saidar gets tainted this time? That'd be fun.

 

 

I don't see what problem fans on here have with that scenario, other than a deep desire that the WoT books continue.

Why should that happen?

RJ is dead (RIP) and Brandon Sanderson has his own career.

The WoT books need to end on a definitive ending to the current age. Not a return to the Age of Legends.

This has absolutely nothing to do with how we as readers want the books to end. An end to channeling might be a reasonable outcome (I would find it quite acceptable personally) but there is plenty of evidence (stated earlier in the thread) that this is not where the books are heading. The fact that Jordan is now dead and BS has his own things to do is irrelevant. Jordan repeatedly stated that he knew how the books will end from the very beginning of the series and he even wrote the last chapter himself.

[Elan Tedronai]

People who are thinking that a new age of non channelling is coming after the LB are barking up the wrong tree. From the way things are going we are headed into a new age of legends era. The wheel itself guarantees that.

 

Personally i think its boring. The same thing happening again and again and again.

[RandAlJazeera]

Now that Nicola has kicked the bucket. What of Areina?

[randsc]

People who are thinking that a new age of non channelling is coming after the LB are barking up the wrong tree. From the way things are going we are headed into a new age of legends era. The wheel itself guarantees that.

 

Personally i think its boring. The same thing happening again and again and again.

 

Actually, unless the Wheel has somehow been disrupted, the Age of Legends isn't due to repeat for another 6 Ages. The Wheel is the best argument AGAINST the next Age being a new Age of Legends.

[randsc]

I could see the OP being inaccessible, but not actually gone. Through the creation and distribution throughout the world of ter'angreal that prevent channeling.

 

Nicola's foretelling: "The great battle done, but the word not done with battle. The land divided by the Return, and the guardians balance the servants."

 

The Guardians have usually been taken to be the Asha'man, and the Servants the Aes Sedai. But we know of another Guardian. The ter'angreal that prevents channeling in Far Madding.

 

And Elayne seems well on her way to figuring out how to replicate that, albeit unintentionally, with her "imperfect" foxhead copies.

[herid]

I could see the OP being inaccessible, but not actually gone. Through the creation and distribution throughout the world of ter'angreal that prevent channeling.

 

Nicola's foretelling: "The great battle done, but the word not done with battle. The land divided by the Return, and the guardians balance the servants."

 

The Guardians have usually been taken to be the Asha'man, and the Servants the Aes Sedai. But we know of another Guardian. The ter'angreal that prevents channeling in Far Madding.

 

And Elayne seems well on her way to figuring out how to replicate that, albeit unintentionally, with her "imperfect" foxhead copies.

how is this supposed to work? Aes Sedai (or other channelers) create a huge number of foxheads and start giving them out? or create a bunch of copies of the Far Madding ter'angreal? why would any of them do anything of this sort?

[randsc]

I could see the OP being inaccessible, but not actually gone. Through the creation and distribution throughout the world of ter'angreal that prevent channeling.

 

Nicola's foretelling: "The great battle done, but the word not done with battle. The land divided by the Return, and the guardians balance the servants."

 

The Guardians have usually been taken to be the Asha'man, and the Servants the Aes Sedai. But we know of another Guardian. The ter'angreal that prevents channeling in Far Madding.

 

And Elayne seems well on her way to figuring out how to replicate that, albeit unintentionally, with her "imperfect" foxhead copies.

how is this supposed to work? Aes Sedai (or other channelers) create a huge number of foxheads and start giving them out? or create a bunch of copies of the Far Madding ter'angreal? why would any of them do anything of this sort?

 

If, for example, the Dragon required it, as part of the price for going to Shayol Ghul.

[herid]

I could see the OP being inaccessible, but not actually gone. Through the creation and distribution throughout the world of ter'angreal that prevent channeling.

 

Nicola's foretelling: "The great battle done, but the word not done with battle. The land divided by the Return, and the guardians balance the servants."

 

The Guardians have usually been taken to be the Asha'man, and the Servants the Aes Sedai. But we know of another Guardian. The ter'angreal that prevents channeling in Far Madding.

 

And Elayne seems well on her way to figuring out how to replicate that, albeit unintentionally, with her "imperfect" foxhead copies.

how is this supposed to work? Aes Sedai (or other channelers) create a huge number of foxheads and start giving them out? or create a bunch of copies of the Far Madding ter'angreal? why would any of them do anything of this sort?

 

If, for example, the Dragon required it, as part of the price for going to Shayol Ghul.

and why would he ask for something like that? We know he will ask for peace. But there is nothing to indicate that he considers the use of OP (most particularly healing) as something bad.

Also, it's not clear that the fortelling you mention refers to the Last Battle. It might not. terez has a very interesting theory (which I find quite convincing) that it means the battle for Caemlyn (or maybe for the BT) because of the line at the end that you skipped.

 

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

If the future teeters on the edge of the blade after the battle is over it's hard to reconcile it with the battle in question being the Last Battle.

[nolirion]

This could easily refer to the possible future Avi saw , world under the domination of the Seanchan Empire .

Yet this could also mean non-channeler won't be bullied anymore by Aes Sedai like Bonwhin Meraighdin or Elaida do Avriny a'Roihan leading Manking to an AoL .

Myself I don't see why Rand would stand against channeling.

[Elan Tedronai]

I could see the OP being inaccessible, but not actually gone. Through the creation and distribution throughout the world of ter'angreal that prevent channeling.

 

Nicola's foretelling: "The great battle done, but the word not done with battle. The land divided by the Return, and the guardians balance the servants."

 

The Guardians have usually been taken to be the Asha'man, and the Servants the Aes Sedai. But we know of another Guardian. The ter'angreal that prevents channeling in Far Madding.

 

And Elayne seems well on her way to figuring out how to replicate that, albeit unintentionally, with her "imperfect" foxhead copies.

 

 

You have to look at the context of that fortelling. The guardians and the servants. It's got nothing to do with far madding or that terangreal. The ashaman and the aes sedai will be working as one.

 

As for the next age, it's going to be the stepping process to the age of legends. It's not going to happen overnight the moment the dark one gets sealed up. It's going to be a gradual thing. You simply don't return to Era of lews therin and co overnight.

 

Building blocks have to be first laid and that will happen after the last battle is done. My initial point was about people thinking there is going to be a non chanelling age. That will never happen.

[randsc]

There are non-channeling Ages. The author said so. So yes, it will happen. It may not be the next Age, but sometime before the next Age of Legends, there will be an Age where the use of the OP is lost.

[Goldstar]

 

 

Egwene: Amyrlin Agreed

Nyaneve: queen or a general of some sorts. Probably somewhere in the borderlands. Lan may play a part here or he may die I have a strong feeling Lan will die, but Nyn will heal him back to life (practice before she tries it on Rand).

Perrin: The broken crown. Bashere and tenobia will die or be wounded Honestly, I'd hate to see Bashere die, and the way Perrin hate s being a lord, I doubt he'd accept being a King.

Mat: travelling with tuon for some seanchan adventures. Basis for the outrigger novels I have another feeling Mat will be the object of diplomacy between Randland and the Seanchan.

 

 

Random bits & pieces:

- We'll never know if/when Liandrin's heavy shield by Moghedien is removed Honestly, I'm tired of Liandrin. What I'd much rather know if Moggy will ever get away from Moridin.

- We won't have much time to hear about the major darkfriend among the Aiel many here have suspected I always assumed it was Melindhra, but....

- We won't hear much about the 60+ black ajah that escaped the WT. only a small number were killed during the battle against messaana. A small number of blacks, and Nicola. T-T

- We won't hear from Elaida again (thank god!) Thank the Creator*

- We won't hear much about all the smallish Ashaman that we love : Narishma, Flinn, Androll... They've gotta come back with Flinn. I don't care what happens. THey have to bring him back.

- We won't read about Morgase (is she in a trolloc cookpot in Caemlyn, by the way ?) Already said.

- We won't hear about the power struggle between lelaine and Romanda (pray that Egwene dies so that we get to see that start again). I'd rather they both die off so Egwene can lead in peace.

- We won't read much about the Atahan'miere ...I care little...

- We'll never hear about Berelain's boobs again. Awwww.... Why not?

 

Any thoughts about those ?

 

 

Read the bolds. :3

[Mr Hindley]

Now that Nicola has kicked the bucket. What of Areina?

 

I'd wondered about that, actually. She only got the occasional mention as it was; with Nicola gone, I'll be quite surprised if we ever hear of her again. Funnily enough, I think her and Nicola were another couple of victims of the Bubble of Lesbianism that struck sometime around KoD.

 

- We'll never hear about Berelain's boobs again. Awwww.... Why not?

I suppose it's possible that Berelain's Boobs will get an outrigger novel all of their own? It's a catchy title, and just imagine the cover that Daryl Sweet would come up with, it would make the cover for LoC look conservative.

 

Oddly, that got me thinking about possible 'dodgy romance novel' equivalents of the names of the existing books, but I got as far as The Eye of the World and thought it best to stop right there.

[Goldstar]

Ah.... Wouldn't that be a great book?

 

 

 

As for the current discussion, let's take a look at this...

 

 

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives.

Obviously enough, the Lion Sword, the Dedicated Spear, and "she who sees beyond", are Elayne, Aviendha, and Min. Three on a boat is what we already know. Rand will be taken to the boat and will be watched over by the three.

 

The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

Now. Here's where the arguments come up. The "great battle" makes me think of the Last Battle. I think it unlikely it is anything else. Obviously, this won't be the "last' battle, just the last one with the DO. The Last Battle is again referenced by the line "but the world not done with battle." The land divided by the return is the Seanchan Return from the west, and the guardians and servents are Aes Sedai and Asha'man. Now that both sides know that Saidin is cleansed, the two sides can work together, literally balancing each others' powers. The future does indeed teeter on the edge, if what happens is to be different from Avi's vision of the Seanchan takeover.

[Arc]

I might have missed it, or might just be irrelevant, but I faintly remember Siuan had some suspicion about the age of some of the new sitters. Weren't they all to young or something? Has this already been explained? please someone direct me to the topic if so.

[capuga]

I'd wondered about that, actually. She only got the occasional mention as it was; with Nicola gone, I'll be quite surprised if we ever hear of her again. Funnily enough, I think her and Nicola were another couple of victims of the Bubble of Lesbianism that struck sometime around KoD.

 

Pillow friends were prevalent well before KoD. Moiraine and Suian are revealed as pillow friends in New Spring. Galina is obviously a lesbian early in her appearances (Elaida has a POV that shows that pillow friends were common amongst novices but that it should be grown out of as you get older. Galina did not grow out of it and was surprised when Elaida rejected her advances. Galina's POVs also show a clear attraction to women). Pillow friends were discussed as common amongst the novices in the White Tower. Cadsuane finds out that one of the Sea Folk Windfinders was having an affair with a Cairhien/Tear (can't remember which) noblewoman. She holds them captive because she thinks their secret has something to do with the renegade Asha'man attacking Rand. Etc. This was not something that just suddenly showed up unexpectedly in KoD.