Crossroads of Twilight - Frustration

[HighWiredSith]

It is supposed to be Perrin on the KoD cover, IIRC. Not that you can really tell with Sweet's covers...

 

Just read the scene that is supposed to have inspired the cover art. Is he serious with his representation of Gaul? He looks like some meek, seven foot tall, medieval sheep herder. Perrin looks like a middle aged Kenny Rogers and Fager like some hearty Spaniard caricature (like something I'd see in a painting at a Mexican restaurant. And Gaul has a sword! An Aiel with a sword? Surely that violates some kind of WoT law, right?

Edited February 1, 2011 by HighWiredSith

[Feral]

Is it definitely Gaul? Might be Aram...

[Twitchy]

Aram has dark hair and doesn't wear cadinsor...

[Feral]

Well yeah, but Aiel don't even touch swords so either way it's pretty awful. BTW, never seen the cover cos I'm in England so was just trying to think who'd have a sword around Perrin.

[Gathering Storman Norman]

I have to say I can't remember what happened in which book. One thing I do remember is somewhere after the 5th or 6th book RJ started putting the arc of the series over the plot arc in the books. He seemed to give up on having the individual books stand as individual books and he was more worried about the over archs in the stories in the series.

 

There are so many independent story lines going on if your favorite character doesn't get many pages you simply don't enjoy the books.

 

I have enjoyed almost every character and story line so I have enjoyed all of the books. Especially on the rereads. I never saw women sitting around doing nothing. I saw characters building relationships and making significant plans that are important in the future.

 

Even if I didn't like any of books 7 through 11 I think they would be worth reading just to get to tGS, it is worth every page of the series leading up to it! And a lot of how I feel about it has to do with the foundation Egween laid from Salidar on to her epic arc in tGS!

 

Keep reading it is all worth it. Much like the last 400 pages of BS's, the Way of Kings, makes reading the first 600 worth it!

Edited February 11, 2011 by The 3 ta'veren

[HighWiredSith]

KoD has proven to be a better read IMHO but frankly the whole Elaine story arc grates on my very last nerve. This entire "I'm pregnant and moody while trying to fend off a siege and win the Lion throne completely on my own" thing is about to do me in. Thankfully I just powered through her chapters. I know this is big picture stuff but I really fail to see how the fortunes or misfortunes of one of many monarchies has any impact on Toman Gaidan and/or the last battle. The White Tower and the Aes Sedai must be present to fight with the Dragon Reborn so Egewene's story line is of utmost importance. Matt and Perrin are Taverin and must be with Rand when he faces the dark one - The Seanchan even seem to be factoring into the last battle now and possibly the Whitecloaks though we so precious little of them. But frankly I've yet to see how the Lion Throne or the eating and drinking habits (and tender breasts) of an immature, pregnant, whiny girl have any real meaning in the bigger story.

 

Maybe the connection is coming, maybe not.

[yoniy0]

A big-picture-thing? Speak for yourself. Some of us enjoyed those chapters.

[HighWiredSith]

A big-picture-thing? Speak for yourself. Some of us enjoyed those chapters.

 

If I implied that I was speaking for anyone other than myself, I humbly apologize. That said, I will say this - I cannot stand Elaine and think she is a total waste of page space. I hope Arymilla wins and takes the Lion Throne. As the mother of the twin offspring of the Dragon Reborn I suppose she can't die. You think they'll name them Luke and Leia?

[TheBeerPatriot]

A big-picture-thing? Speak for yourself. Some of us enjoyed those chapters.

 

If I implied that I was speaking for anyone other than myself, I humbly apologize. That said, I will say this - I cannot stand Elaine and think she is a total waste of page space. I hope Arymilla wins and takes the Lion Throne. As the mother of the twin offspring of the Dragon Reborn I suppose she can't die. You think they'll name them Luke and Leia?

Elayne's arc in KoD wasn't that bad, and it did serve a purpose. But her arc in Crossroads was an utter waste of time-those pages should have been ripped out of the final version of the book as it served zero purpose.

[Erunion]

I must admit, that on my numerous re-reads of tWOT, Elayne is my single-most skipped over character. While I read her chapters through thoroughly the first time, she is quite firmly skimmed on subsequent read-throughs. I. Just. Don't. Like. Her.

But eh, that's me. Some people do like her, I'm just not one of them.

[PhoenixUK]

the books in the UK are plain now adays, with just the Wheel and the great serpent, so we are spared those images! Winter's heart is the last time we had an illustration.

 

I just finished re reading COT. I managed to enjoy it a lot more this time, because I know I have two more books to read, so I am not frantically trying to get to the good parts. It is still prob the WORST book in the series. There are too many scenes of characters we see once (the worst case being the Aramylla and other Andor throne contenders, and then Elayne meeting the children in charge of the Houses supporting her). Almost nothing happens for most of the book. The Tuon - Mat courtship is kinda sweet, but does not save the book. My initial read of the book made me want to gouge my eyes out and cry in despair that I then had to wait for something to actually happen when the next book was published.

 

KOD is not a brilliant book but compared to COT, significantly better.

 

I'd rank the books as

 

2-6, and 12 as the best

7,8,9,11,13 as secondary

10 as the worst of the series.

[HighWiredSith]

3/4 of the way through KoD - honestly, it's starting to read a lot like CoT - a lot of scheming and talking and meeting and tea drinking but not much else. I can't believe that RJ was planning to wrap up this series in one more book when so little seems to be happening in KoD. That chapters that involve some kind of action (like the Trolloc attack) are over too quickly while the chapters that focus on Elaine and Egewene's scheming seem to go on and on and on.

 

Has it also every been pointed out (I'm sure it has), that, well, RJ seems to have a real spanking fetish. Seriously. How old is Egwene, 20? And reading about Sylvania putting her over her knee and smacking her bare ass...okay, yeah, that's damn sexy. But seriously, is this the most appropriate punishment for a grown woman? Can't help but notice the male characters don't turn each other over their knees like that, nor to do they sit around naked with each other, and certainly there have been no male pillow friends mentioned.

 

And BTW - I've noticed that in the real world most women cross their arms over their breasts, not below them. I think that the nonverbal message that is meant to be conveyed by the oft used phrase "Crossed her arms underneath her breasts" (meaning seriousness and/or steadfastness) would be better conveyed by describing these women crossing their arms over their breasts. A below the breast arm crossing seems, at least to me, to convey more relaxed, maybe slightly bored.

[David Selig]

3/4 of the way through KoD - honestly, it's starting to read a lot like CoT - a lot of scheming and talking and meeting and tea drinking but not much else.

I told you so. ;)

 

Though it gets better really soon. Or at least there are actual plots resolutions, though a lot of them were disappointing IMO, but most readers seem to like them a lot, so YMMV.

 

Has it also every been pointed out (I'm sure it has), that, well, RJ seems to have a real spanking fetish. Seriously. How old is Egwene, 20? And reading about Sylvania putting her over her knee and smacking her bare ass...okay, yeah, that's damn sexy. But seriously, is this the most appropriate punishment for a grown woman? Can't help but notice the male characters don't turn each other over their knees like that, nor to do they sit around naked with each other, and certainly there have been no male pillow friends mentioned.

RJ definitely had a thing for spanking and naked rituals for women. Wait, I mean "clad in the light" rituals. ;)

[hankscorpio]

Do keep in mind that to an Aes Sedai, an Accepted or Novice is considered a child, regardless of how old they actually are. Also, Aes Sedai have very long lifespans. Cadsuane I think is supposed to be 300 years old, Verin is well over 200 and I think many others are around 200 years old. If you're that old, it's probably pretty easy to look at a 20 year old as a child.

 

But in regards to what you said about KoD and RJ wrapping up the series in one more book, yeah I don't know what he was smoking when he claimed that. I'm not going to give away spoilers but tGS and TOM are two of the fastest paced books in the series, and there's still a ton to conver in AMOL. At the pace RJ was wrapping things up I don't think it's unreasonable to think there would have been 5-6 more books after KOD unless he cut out stuff from the plot.

[alpineman]

...

Tell me it's all worth it!

 

I dropped out of the series for those exact reasons about 13 years ago. And I started in 1990 reading these books. I'd had enough after book 7 (Book 6 was completely a bore). I've only recently started again, buying the paperback books (cheaper), and with the aid of the online World of Time Encyclopedia. I also printed out the plot threads, and pasted them in the front of my books, so I can skip the boring chapters. I think in the hands of a different author the meat and heart of the series could have been done in about 8 books.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I think in the hands of a different author the meat and heart of the series could have been done in about 8 books.

 

the hands of a different author would have been unable to extricate the "meat and the heart of the series" from the actual author's mind.

 

this was, is, and G-d willing, always will be, RJ's story, and this is the way he told it. he is the creator of this particular little universe. there are definitely things that frustrate me about it, and there are definitely valid criticisms to be made, as there are of any work - perfection isn't a human quality.

 

i'm a fairly critical person, so i do get the frustration y'all are expressing, and i've expressed it myself.

 

but the suggestion that someone else would have done a better job with RJ's story, his life's work, just seems insulting to his memory, to his work, and to those of us who, despite all criticism, love both. imo, anyway.

Edited February 23, 2011 by cindy

[capuga]

And BTW - I've noticed that in the real world most women cross their arms over their breasts, not below them. I think that the nonverbal message that is meant to be conveyed by the oft used phrase "Crossed her arms underneath her breasts" (meaning seriousness and/or steadfastness) would be better conveyed by describing these women crossing their arms over their breasts. A below the breast arm crossing seems, at least to me, to convey more relaxed, maybe slightly bored.

 

Not sure about this. Actually try crossing your arms over your chest. Its a pretty ackward (sp?) position. Plus, if a women crosses them under their chest, it pushes them up a bit which is a much sexier pose.

[HighWiredSith]

And BTW - I've noticed that in the real world most women cross their arms over their breasts, not below them. I think that the nonverbal message that is meant to be conveyed by the oft used phrase "Crossed her arms underneath her breasts" (meaning seriousness and/or steadfastness) would be better conveyed by describing these women crossing their arms over their breasts. A below the breast arm crossing seems, at least to me, to convey more relaxed, maybe slightly bored.

 

Not sure about this. Actually try crossing your arms over your chest. Its a pretty ackward (sp?) position. Plus, if a women crosses them under their chest, it pushes them up a bit which is a much sexier pose.

 

I actually had my wife do both (she's about average size and that's all I will say), and when she had her arms crossed over or really on her breasts, to me this did a better job of conveying the kind of attitude that RJ is getting. The under the breast arms crossing to me seems more casual and laid back. I know it's a goofy think to lock onto but my goodness, he described his particular non-verbal expression literally hundreds of times across the 11 books.

[yoniy0]

a lot of scheming and talking and meeting and tea drinking but not much else

[...]

the chapters that focus on Elaine and Egewene's scheming seem to go on and on and on.

I'm sorry, but if you didn't enjoy Honey in the Tea and The Importance of Dyelin, there's just something wrong with you, dude . All due respect to Dumai's Wells, that's not all that the WoT is about.

[child of light]

COT is the only book i haven't reread...

[Sleeper]

Has it also every been pointed out (I'm sure it has), that, well, RJ seems to have a real spanking fetish. Seriously. How old is Egwene, 20? And reading about Sylvania putting her over her knee and smacking her bare ass...okay, yeah, that's damn sexy. But seriously, is this the most appropriate punishment for a grown woman? Can't help but notice the male characters don't turn each other over their knees like that, nor to do they sit around naked with each other, and certainly there have been no male pillow friends mentioned.

RJ definitely had a thing for spanking and naked rituals for women. Wait, I mean "clad in the light" rituals. ;)

I swear, if someone listed all the words in the Wheel of Time in order of the amount of times they've been used, "breast", "bosom", and "bottom" would be in the top 10, along with "sniff" and "wool-headed".

[Morsker]

COT is the only book i haven't reread...

I wasn't able to read it my first two times through the series. Only on my third read through, just now, was I able to read CoT cover-to-cover. It's almost enjoyable now, but it really does feel like a missing chapter, or deleted scenes, not something you have to read.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

 

I swear, if someone listed all the words in the Wheel of Time in order of the amount of times they've been used, "breast", "bosom", and "bottom" would be in the top 10, along with "sniff" and "wool-headed".

 

these (and the rest of the top 100 most frequent words) would actually make a decent set of fridge magnets. someone should do this. please, i will buy it. thanks.

[Kal-El814]

I swear, if someone listed all the words in the Wheel of Time in order of the amount of times they've been used, "breast", "bosom", and "bottom" would be in the top 10, along with "sniff" and "wool-headed".

 

How could you forget "plump"?

[jemron]

General consensus from my perusing the boards over the years:

 

CoT is not so great (always ranks as the least favorite book in polls). Personally, I skip it on each re-read, though I've considered giving it one more chance for my final re-read before the last book comes out.

 

KoD is MUCH better. Many people, though obviously not all, think that it is one of the top 5 best books in the series. I think it's in the top 8...

 

Personally, I LOVE TGS and ToM, and I'm always surprised when people talk bad about them. They are definitely not RJ books entirely, but they are GOOD.

 

In Summary: It is worth it. My brother had the same problem as you, but he got bored at like book 7. I told him to stick with it. He was so pleased after finished TGS and ToM that he immediately started a re-read of the series.