Yep, I still hate Min

[rgiorgetti]

[quote name='Drekka Mort' timestamp='1294491551' post='1715958'

Die Min die! Die, onscreen, by Moridins hand, in front of Rand.

 

Wahahahahaha!!!

 

Oh come on, that's funny. :-)

[Sharaman]

maybe im out to lunch on this but is it possible that Min is the reborn Illyana?

 

Oh dear God in heaven! NOOO!

 

I will accept that she has a purpose (ie. Min + Rand = sane-ish Rand). I just don't enjoy reading about her. As another poster had mentioned, I feel like (yes the most subjective of all assessments) Min reads a book, then senses through the warder bond that Rand is back, jumps off the bed and rushes into his arms...repeat...yadda yadda. I suppose this is the same type of sequence that most others find satisfying and endearing. I can understand that too.

 

But Ilyena? Say it ain't so Jo. Say it ain't so.

 

 

No, unlikely because Ilyena could channel and Min can't.

In WoTverse, the channeling ability is linked to the soul and Min would have the ability at least in potential though she's obviously not a sparker.

Did she try to use the a'dam in TGH IIRC?

If she did, and failed, then there's zero chance she is Ilyena reborn

If she didn't, there is a faint chance (very faint) because nobody has ever tested Min onscreen for potential.

I doubt that Brandon is going to throw this into the mix at such a late stage.

[hurryupnwait]

I was lazy and skipped to the end of this thread after reading the first page or so. That said forgive me if someone has already covered this aspect of Min hate/dislike. It is my contention that Min is directly responsible for Rand losing his hand. During the confrontation with Semirhage, Rand could have thrown himself out of the way of the fireball. He did not because he knew Min was behind. If Min was just kinda there when they stumbled on a by chance ambush I would take no issue with this. Rand took an injury to protect the woman he loves. Admirable, if someone threw something at me that I knew could kill or seriously injure me, and my wife or daughter were behind me I would stand my ground too. In my opinion that is just part of being a man you protect those that you care about.

 

All that said Min was present for the Semirhage ambush because she manipulated Rand into agreeing to allow her to go. This was a meeting on the surface anyway with the leaders of the Seanchan. The possibility of it going wrong was sky high. Min is not a channeler or a warrior she is Rand's lover. Nothing wrong with that, but insisting on going to a potentially dangerous meeting was just plain lunacy. Her concern for Rand should have allowed her to see reason. She knows very well that Rand is terrified someone will try to hurt her, and is supposedly routinely annoyed at his attempts to protect her from harm. It had to be obvious to her if she went along to this meeting Rand would be more focused on her safety then his own. She had to know he would sacrifice himself to save her, therefore she should have known to stay away from the meeting with the Seanchan.

 

I do not hate Min but this is something that irks me about her. The fact that it has not occurred to her to even feel a smidge guilty about causing the circumstances that led to Rand choosing to stand in the path of a fireball also bothers me. If anything she was annoyed at Rand for not crying over the loss of his hand. She should be grateful he was not angry with her for forcing the choice on him.

[anotherfingolfin]

I was lazy and skipped to the end of this thread after reading the first page or so. That said forgive me if someone has already covered this aspect of Min hate/dislike. It is my contention that Min is directly responsible for Rand losing his hand. During the confrontation with Semirhage, Rand could have thrown himself out of the way of the fireball. He did not because he knew Min was behind. If Min was just kinda there when they stumbled on a by chance ambush I would take no issue with this. Rand took an injury to protect the woman he loves. Admirable, if someone threw something at me that I knew could kill or seriously injure me, and my wife or daughter were behind me I would stand my ground too. In my opinion that is just part of being a man you protect those that you care about.

 

All that said Min was present for the Semirhage ambush because she manipulated Rand into agreeing to allow her to go. This was a meeting on the surface anyway with the leaders of the Seanchan. The possibility of it going wrong was sky high. Min is not a channeler or a warrior she is Rand's lover. Nothing wrong with that, but insisting on going to a potentially dangerous meeting was just plain lunacy. Her concern for Rand should have allowed her to see reason. She knows very well that Rand is terrified someone will try to hurt her, and is supposedly routinely annoyed at his attempts to protect her from harm. It had to be obvious to her if she went along to this meeting Rand would be more focused on her safety then his own. She had to know he would sacrifice himself to save her, therefore she should have known to stay away from the meeting with the Seanchan.

 

I do not hate Min but this is something that irks me about her. The fact that it has not occurred to her to even feel a smidge guilty about causing the circumstances that led to Rand choosing to stand in the path of a fireball also bothers me. If anything she was annoyed at Rand for not crying over the loss of his hand. She should be grateful he was not angry with her for forcing the choice on him.

 

This was the point where my indifference and general "meh" towards the character turned into pure hate. At the beginning of the scene I was like, wtf, just because you are the bosses lover doesn't make you qualified to be in that sort of a situation. And yes, the fact that she doesn't feel much remorse or isn't racked by guilt when he loses the hand probably made it much worse. I mean, she feels ANGER at him for ignoring the pain in that situation? Confusion/pity/sadness is understandable (personally I would have gone with awe/respect at his badassness, but w/e), but annoyance/anger??

 

I think she FINALLY got it, after the episode with Semirhage and the male a'dam. I actually liked the fact that she felt completely useless and pathetic. In my mind it was good, in light of her costing him his hand. Also when Aviendha puzzles about how silly/ineffective Min's knife twirling would be in actual combat, I laughed, and wish she had told her to her face.

 

After the understanding she gained, and the proactive role she takes in trying to figure out stuff through her studies, have made me not mind her any more.

[Ananta]

Wasn't Min along to see if there's any cool Visions to be seen around the Seanchan folks? So she wasn't planning to be completely useless D:

[David Selig]

I'd say it's Rand's fault for losing his actually for coming to the meeting awhile not holding saidin. That was stupid. I know he had the channelling sickness and LTT attempting to seize saidin to deal with, but he should've just postponed the meeting instead of going there so exposed.

 

And not having the Asha'man, Cadsuane and co stand in front of him protecting him and Min was pretty stupid too. He should've stayed behind, and Min further back. Rand was reckless as usual.

[Gympok]

Mins has always been one of my favorite characters. I dont understad why people dislike her, but oh well. This thread was too long for me to bother to read so ill just post :D

[mb]

Without the ability to change the outcome of future events, I don't really see the point of the visions.

Her Viewings seem to give many characters hope (if the characters are told).

An obvious example would be Elayne; the fraternal twins.

[kasper11]

Out of all the female characters, Min is probably my favorite. Why? Because she and Nynaeve are the only two that don't have ulterior motives behind everything they do. This is one of the things that drives me nuts in this series, and where I think it gets sexist...

 

Rand is the friggin Dragon reborn, the chosen one, the sole hope of humanity. Men follow him (Bashere, the Aiel chiefs etc). Women manipulate him or are willing to go against him in order to secure their own individual desires.

 

Consider...

 

Elayne. The worst of the bunch. She gets pissed off at Rand because he wants to give her Andor. It isn't his to give, blah blah blah. So, instead of taking Andor from Rand, she fights a war for it. People get killed. People that could be fighting the DO at the last battle.

 

The Wise Ones. They are constantly manipulating Rand in order to try and save the Aiel.

 

Do I need to mention the manipulating Aes Sedai?

 

Egwene is constantly putting the good of the Tower ahead of Rand.

 

Aviendha basically spends most of the series making his life miserable. Never does she consider whether she can be of help to him.

 

 

Now, I don't mean to say that a woman needs to put the good of her man before herself. Not at all. But when you love or are dealing with the Chosen one, on whom the fate of the world rests? He comes first. Sorry. It is basically a question of all man kind against your petty desires. Take Elayne. So what if your rule of Andor after the last battle is harder because Rand "gave" you the crown? More important is to make sure there is an Andor after the last battle. Same with the Tower.

 

Except Min. She constantly wants to do what is best for Rand and puts that ahead of everything else. Even when she insists on going with him, it is because she thinks she can be of help. She may be wrong, but her goal is always to help Rand. Nynaeve puts Rand first too, for the most part. But the rest, sheesh.

[l_uniquefeuille]

Love makes you illogically defensive of your lover and stupid when it comes to him/her. This is what RJ has shown through the books

I have liked Min mostly, but get irritated when she gets defensive and stupid about Rand.

Like during the Clensing,

She should know she can't go to Rand even if he is in pain, but she tries to run to him and when some of the others try to stop her, uses her knives on them for their pains!!!

The classic Love makes you blind and stupid theory

[Shalon Casbin]

i will say this about Min's importance within the books. I keep seeing people reference that she was Rand's 'anchor' Well we all know good and well that if RJ wanted to, he could have adjusted the story so one of the other female character's could fill this roll. Min was convenient as a filler character. She had no ties that would take her from him as they progressed, like Andor for Elayne, or the Wise Ones for Avie.

 

She also was put into play as a tie-to character. For example, when Rand leaves for a time in ToM, Nynaeve tries to get Min to take her to Rand. Several times in the series i notice she makes a timely appearance just to be the one who assures the people Rand leaves Gateway hopping, that he is alive and they should leave him be. She then inevidably fizzles out reading in a chair and falling asleep, or making Rand ease his tension and go to bed with her.

 

I think Min was a character with great potential, but was never written larger because of the already expansive ends that still need tying for the other main characters. No doubt her studies will have to bring to light something, just so the character doesn't become a WTF hole in the story, but I would say she is one of the mains I wouldn't be devastated/surprised to find out died in the final book.

[AshaShan]

I would say she is one of the mains I wouldn't be devastated/surprised to find out died in the final book.

 

Conversely, shes probably the only character, Rand included, whos death would actually upset me.

[Sleeper]

I think Min was a character with great potential, but was never written larger because of the already expansive ends that still need tying for the other main characters. No doubt her studies will have to bring to light something, just so the character doesn't become a WTF hole in the story, but I would say she is one of the mains I wouldn't be devastated/surprised to find out died in the final book.

It would be a great twist, that the woman who can foretell the deaths of others is unable to foretell her own death.

 

However, as AshaShan said, I would hate it if Min died.

[IMeMin]

Okay, well, Min is my favorite character and I don't want her to die, but you know, if that does happen, that might actually help the story. Not that it's necessary of course, and obviously if it's not in RJ's notes BS shouldn't do it, but imagine what kind of a test that might be for Rand. Okay this is creeping me out...

[condonmc]

Im alive!!!!!!!!1

[nolirion]

I don't understand this thread , nor do I want too , for a majority of those poster character worthy of their affection must be channeller /ruler / Ta'veren . Did you dislike Lan when he was nearly useless each time their was a confrontation with the forsaken/black Ajah ( The eye of the world , the discovery off the bowl of wind etcetera) .

Min is a pivotal point of many event , yes for a long time her role as been akin as that of a concubine to Rand , but only akin she as worked on scholar book since the death of Fel for some time and as reach a number of conclusion that helped Rand in various way .

Her viewing as been helping Rand since the day he met her she is one of the rare genuine helper of Rand , without her there would be no Logain / Sanche /Leane alive and channeling .

Gawyn would have get himself killed at Dumai's well , witch I am not sure if it is a good thing or not , she kept Rand stable for a long long , long time .

Been the only woman around Rand who as no ability to channel she had done a great job considering her limitation .

As to Rand hand , without Min he would have never trusted Cadsuane , so he would have been trapped by Semirhage and the world would be doomed .

 

 

And frankly this sex toy business , I don't know if you are twelve year's old or a puritan but intimacy is part of a Human life , grow up .

[Treebeard]

im am Min disliker , i dont hate her and i see her point , but honestly :

 

- " your a woolheaded fool Rand al'Thor"

- " But Min i don't want to hurt your feeling or body "

- "i don't care your woolheaded fool"

 

if this dialogue ( if differently phrased ) would appear once or twice no harm would be done but EVERY SINGLE TIME !!!!!! gahhha

She definitely better when Rand is on his mad rampage i TGS after Semirhage attack.

[Halleck]

I'm not too impressed with anything Min has done, but then again I never expected her to do much. She can't channel and she isn't a leader of an army which means the things she can accomplish in this world are very limited.

 

She does good things that aren't very cool like helping keep Rand sane and giving out some cool visions (like about Darlin eventually becoming king with a crown that hadn't yet been made) but she doesn't do anything momentous which isn't very fun to read about her.

 

So for all of that I would say that she is likable enough but she definitely could have been written better to make her more fun for the reader. But maybe that would have ruined the whole point of her character. So I dunno. I don't have a very strong opinion of her either way.