Did Cadsuane lie?

[USURP888]

Hi, I am not really sure if this has been discussed before but I seem to have read Cadsuane lying. In p.748 chapter 51. Cadsuane denied knowing about a paralis-net. I know she isn't a darkfriend since she isn't blinded nor discomforted in any way by Rand's inner light like Weiramon and that lord in Maradon.

 

My question I guess is, does anyone know if Cadsuane has found a way around the three oaths? Had she made the three oaths at all?

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

I think it was more because she didn't know that her collection of ter'angreal and angreal was called a paralis-net more than anything.

[Luckers]

What Arani said. Cadsuane didn't know what a paralis-net was.

 

In reguards to...

 

My question I guess is, does anyone know if Cadsuane has found a way around the three oaths? Had she made the three oaths at all?

 

Cadsuane has sworn the three oaths.

 

BHeins1 asks: According to several of AOL's members in our discussion forum, you stated at a Balticon conference that Verin Sedai had never held the Oath Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was wondering if that was true, and if so, has Cadsuane also done so?

 

RJ: No, I did not say that Verin had never held the Oath Rod...Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.

[Elend]

What they said.

 

Semirhage is the one that knew the term paralis-net and, if you recall, she noticed Cadsuane had one. Caddy didn't know the term herself.

[FarShainMael]

What Arani said. Cadsuane didn't know what a paralis-net was.

 

In reguards to...

 

My question I guess is, does anyone know if Cadsuane has found a way around the three oaths? Had she made the three oaths at all?

 

Cadsuane has sworn the three oaths.

 

BHeins1 asks: According to several of AOL's members in our discussion forum, you stated at a Balticon conference that Verin Sedai had never held the Oath Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was wondering if that was true, and if so, has Cadsuane also done so?

 

RJ: No, I did not say that Verin had never held the Oath Rod...Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.

 

Now there's an AS answer from RJ if I've ever seen one. Yes, she held the OR, but did she [i[swear[/i] on it..?

[Lacanos]

What Arani said. Cadsuane didn't know what a paralis-net was.

 

In reguards to...

 

My question I guess is, does anyone know if Cadsuane has found a way around the three oaths? Had she made the three oaths at all?

 

Cadsuane has sworn the three oaths.

 

BHeins1 asks: According to several of AOL's members in our discussion forum, you stated at a Balticon conference that Verin Sedai had never held the Oath Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was wondering if that was true, and if so, has Cadsuane also done so?

 

RJ: No, I did not say that Verin had never held the Oath Rod...Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.

 

Now there's an AS answer from RJ if I've ever seen one. Yes, she held the OR, but did she [i[swear[/i] on it..?

Or that's what he wants you to think/you're reading too much into it.

I find it highly implausible that she's a DF based on the PoVs we've seen from her. I suppose she could have unsworn the oaths (would contribute towards explaining her age), but after the amount of fuss she makes towards Nynaeve about it?

[Darth Krewl]

For as much as I dislike this character's guts, I think it should be clear that she's no Darkfriend.

 

As many have pointed out, she just didn't know that the correct word for all the stuff she wears on her hair was paralis-net. Just like all Aes Sedai are ignorant of the name of the "Binding Rod" and its true purpose or have taken to calling "servering" gentling for men and stilling for women or like the Seanchan call a "Domination Band" an A'dam. IMO, it's simply RJ's way to demonstrate how much knowledge was lost after the Breaking and the huge gap that exists between the second and third Ages.

[FarShainMael]

What Arani said. Cadsuane didn't know what a paralis-net was.

 

In reguards to...

 

My question I guess is, does anyone know if Cadsuane has found a way around the three oaths? Had she made the three oaths at all?

 

Cadsuane has sworn the three oaths.

 

BHeins1 asks: According to several of AOL's members in our discussion forum, you stated at a Balticon conference that Verin Sedai had never held the Oath Rod, or had circumvented the Oaths. I was wondering if that was true, and if so, has Cadsuane also done so?

 

RJ: No, I did not say that Verin had never held the Oath Rod...Cadsuane has also held the Oath Rod.

 

Now there's an AS answer from RJ if I've ever seen one. Yes, she held the OR, but did she [i[swear[/i] on it..?

Or that's what he wants you to think/you're reading too much into it.

I find it highly implausible that she's a DF based on the PoVs we've seen from her. I suppose she could have unsworn the oaths (would contribute towards explaining her age), but after the amount of fuss she makes towards Nynaeve about it?

 

I don't think Caddy's a DF either, as you say, there's no sign of it in her PoVs.

 

But she might have other reasons for not allowing herself to be bound. Does she know that taking Oaths on the OR shortens your life? Perhaps she didn't fancy that happening to her..

[Mulk]

I don't think Caddy's a DF either, as you say, there's no sign of it in her PoVs.

 

But she might have other reasons for not allowing herself to be bound. Does she know that taking Oaths on the OR shortens your life? Perhaps she didn't fancy that happening to her..

 

I seem to be following FarShainMael around...

 

I agree she's not a darkfriend. But I think she IS in fact bound, isn't she? Seems like someone would have commented if she didn't have the ageless Aes Sedai face. She's old and reaching the end of her life, I seem to recall her commenting to that effect more than once. The question then would be if she somehow got around/out of one or more of the oaths or bound herself in another way. The last I consider a non-starter. I really doubt she dropped any of the others for that matter, but it is more plausible, along the lines of Nynaeve refusing to swear off of using balefire.

 

Cad and Nynaeve really are a great deal alike; the differences explained by close to three centuries of experience and Nynaeve's general default setting of helping people, which I have found to be different than just about any other living Aes Sedai.

[haloun]

i always had a theory that when you swore on the oath rod, your life was cut by degrees depending on how many oaths you took, the aes sedai seem limited to one third their potential, so what if taking one of the oaths off, you then are given half your potential instead, that would explain why caddy has lived longer than any other aes sedai alive, and the using the OP as a weapon bit would probably be the one she took off, she is green isnt she? that would explain her use of the power on tam and a few other times when she has seemed excessive in the use.

[RedVanilla]

Cadsuane is a bit of a bully, but she's on the side of the Light, as confirmed by Verin, who didn't poison her once she confirmed it.

[Arkane101]

i always had a theory that when you swore on the oath rod, your life was cut by degrees depending on how many oaths you took, the aes sedai seem limited to one third their potential, so what if taking one of the oaths off, you then are given half your potential instead, that would explain why caddy has lived longer than any other aes sedai alive, and the using the OP as a weapon bit would probably be the one she took off, she is green isnt she? that would explain her use of the power on tam and a few other times when she has seemed excessive in the use.

her use of the OP on Tam was not as a weapon, for one thing she never harmed him. Also I don't think the number of oaths has anything to do with how long they live, since as far as we know all Black Ajar AS only swear one oath, if they lived longer, there would be some inconsistency in the records and someone would have caught on.

[Darth Krewl]

Cadsuane is a bit of a bully, but she's on the side of the Light, as confirmed by Verin, who didn't poison her once she confirmed it.

 

No, Cadsuane's no Darkfriend, I'm sure. But she's not on the side of the Light, either. Cadsuane's on Cadsuane's side. Plain and simple. She's a self-absorbed, ignorant who has managed to get by on reputation alone (I've yet to read her do anything that would warrant her the title of "living legend") and who cares only about said reputation and her legacy being the Aes Sedai who was able to rein in the Dragon Reborn and lead him by the hand. That's all she cares about.

 

Not once have I read any Cadsuane PoV where she expresses any kind of concern for the "al'Thor boy" or anyone else for that matter. All she's always thinking about is how to use her reputation to have it easy and get by w/o any real effort or should that fail, bully and intimidate people to get her way. No wisdom and no wits from this one, like ever. IMO, to be on the side of the Light you have to genuinely care about people (a la Nynaeve, for instance) and this woman doesn't give a hoot about anyone but herself.

 

Perhaps this is what leads many to suspect her a Darkfriend, because in a way she's as bad --if not worse-- than all of them.

 

her use of the OP on Tam was not as a weapon, for one thing she never harmed him.

 

You don't have to actually shoot someone, just to intimidate them by pointing a gun at them. You don't have to throw someone off a high rise building, in order to intimidate by hanging them upside down from a ledge.

 

What Cadsuane did was circumvent her way around the Oaths ("I won't kill, but I will intimidate") which is harmful to the victim either way, because being under stress represents a certain kind of damage/harm inflicted on you. The fact that Tam stood up to the bi-etch, 'cause he's much tougher than that, doesn't mean she wasn't trying to stress him out, only to get her way.

[capuga]

Cadsuane is a bit of a bully, but she's on the side of the Light, as confirmed by Verin, who didn't poison her once she confirmed it.

 

No, Cadsuane's no Darkfriend, I'm sure. But she's not on the side of the Light, either. Cadsuane's on Cadsuane's side. Plain and simple. She's a self-absorbed, ignorant who has managed to get by on reputation alone (I've yet to read her do anything that would warrant her the title of "living legend") and who cares only about said reputation and her legacy being the Aes Sedai who was able to rein in the Dragon Reborn and lead him by the hand. That's all she cares about.

 

Not once have I read any Cadsuane PoV where she expresses any kind of concern for the "al'Thor boy" or anyone else for that matter. All she's always thinking about is how to use her reputation to have it easy and get by w/o any real effort or should that fail, bully and intimidate people to get her way. No wisdom and no wits from this one, like ever. IMO, to be on the side of the Light you have to genuinely care about people (a la Nynaeve, for instance) and this woman doesn't give a hoot about anyone but herself.

 

Perhaps this is what leads many to suspect her a Darkfriend, because in a way she's as bad --if not worse-- than all of them.

 

Now I don't want to defend Cadsuane too much because I've never really like her because she is definitely a bully. It would be one thing to bully Rand as a strategy because he doesn't respond to anything else, but she is a rude bully to everyone else as well. That being said, I never had the impression that she was doing anything for her own glory or reputation. She uses her reputation to her advantage when she needs to but her POVs (IMO) clearly show that she is focused on showing Rand what he needs to know to win the last battle and that is her only goal. In fact, I find it to be her redeeming quality - she spends her time working towards the last battle, not trying to play politics or further the White Tower's goals. Its easy to disagree with her methods but I find her motivations to be pure. I agree that she doesn't care about Rand personally but she does care about the Light winning the last battle. She's not particularly likable but to put her on the same level as a Darkfriend is a little harsh.

 

her use of the OP on Tam was not as a weapon, for one thing she never harmed him.

 

You don't have to actually shoot someone, just to intimidate them by pointing a gun at them. You don't have to throw someone off a high rise building, in order to intimidate by hanging them upside down from a ledge.

 

What Cadsuane did was circumvent her way around the Oaths ("I won't kill, but I will intimidate") which is harmful to the victim either way, because being under stress represents a certain kind of damage/harm inflicted on you. The fact that Tam stood up to the bi-etch, 'cause he's much tougher than that, doesn't mean she wasn't trying to stress him out, only to get her way.

 

Again, yes she is a bully, but intimidation is not breaking the oath. This doesn't even take much Aes Sedai twisted thinking to get around the oath. She doesn't intend Tam any physical harm and doesn't cause him any physical harm, therefore, she did not use the Power as a weapon. Being intimidating is not the same as being a weapon.

[David Selig]

Now I don't want to defend Cadsuane too much because I've never really like her because she is definitely a bully. It would be one thing to bully Rand as a strategy because he doesn't respond to anything else, but she is a rude bully to everyone else as well. That being said, I never had the impression that she was doing anything for her own glory or reputation. She uses her reputation to her advantage when she needs to but her POVs (IMO) clearly show that she is focused on showing Rand what he needs to know to win the last battle and that is her only goal. In fact, I find it to be her redeeming quality - she spends her time working towards the last battle, not trying to play politics or further the White Tower's goals. Its easy to disagree with her methods but I find her motivations to be pure. I agree that she doesn't care about Rand personally but she does care about the Light winning the last battle. She's not particularly likable but to put her on the same level as a Darkfriend is a little harsh.

Agreed. I feel weird defending Cadsuane of all people since I dislike her quite a bit, but she does have her good sides. Her methods are annoying and often wrong in my views, but her motives are right. She's not being near Rand for the glory, she is there because she thinks he needs her and she has to do what she can to help him save the world.

[Darth Krewl]

Now I don't want to defend Cadsuane too much because I've never really like her because she is definitely a bully. It would be one thing to bully Rand as a strategy because he doesn't respond to anything else, but she is a rude bully to everyone else as well. That being said, I never had the impression that she was doing anything for her own glory or reputation. She uses her reputation to her advantage when she needs to but her POVs (IMO) clearly show that she is focused on showing Rand what he needs to know to win the last battle and that is her only goal. In fact, I find it to be her redeeming quality - she spends her time working towards the last battle, not trying to play politics or further the White Tower's goals. Its easy to disagree with her methods but I find her motivations to be pure. I agree that she doesn't care about Rand personally but she does care about the Light winning the last battle. She's not particularly likable but to put her on the same level as a Darkfriend is a little harsh.

 

Well, to clarify, I never said or meant to say that Cadsuane's not pulling for the Light to win the Last Battle. I just feel that her need for stardom, for being on the driver's seat all the time because of her status as a "legend" (as if she knew better than everyone else, which she clearly doesn't, as Rand has clearly demonstrated to her twice already) does make her feel extremely selfish for my taste and that she gets more in the way than she actually helps.

 

I can see your point and I agree that she's not as concerned with Tower inner politics and intrigue, if at all. What I said about her is simply what I honestly I get from her PoV's. Again, not only have I failed to see her care personally about Rand (like a Nynaeve) or rethink her strategy (a la Moiraine) to gain his trust but, I fail to see her caring about anyone other than herself. I admit that I may be wrong but this is what I get from her PoV's in the books.

 

Again, yes she is a bully, but intimidation is not breaking the oath. This doesn't even take much Aes Sedai twisted thinking to get around the oath. She doesn't intend Tam any physical harm and doesn't cause him any physical harm, therefore, she did not use the Power as a weapon. Being intimidating is not the same as being a weapon.

 

No, she's not breaking her oath. But my point was not whether she was using the Power as a weapon or not but that she was, at the very least, threatening to harm Tam in case he didn't provide her with the answers she was demanding of him and that can be, if not physical, at least emotionally harmful to the person under intimidation. Good thing Tam's a much tougher character than that.

[Mr Ares]

i always had a theory that when you swore on the oath rod, your life was cut by degrees depending on how many oaths you took, the aes sedai seem limited to one third their potential, so what if taking one of the oaths off, you then are given half your potential instead, that would explain why caddy has lived longer than any other aes sedai alive, and the using the OP as a weapon bit would probably be the one she took off, she is green isnt she? that would explain her use of the power on tam and a few other times when she has seemed excessive in the use.

her use of the OP on Tam was not as a weapon, for one thing she never harmed him. Also I don't think the number of oaths has anything to do with how long they live, since as far as we know all Black Ajar AS only swear one oath, if they lived longer, there would be some inconsistency in the records and someone would have caught on.

Actually, we are told at one point that the BA swear a "new trinity" of Oaths.

 

 

Cadsuane is a bit of a bully, but she's on the side of the Light, as confirmed by Verin, who didn't poison her once she confirmed it.

 

No, Cadsuane's no Darkfriend, I'm sure. But she's not on the side of the Light, either. Cadsuane's on Cadsuane's side. Plain and simple. She's a self-absorbed, ignorant who has managed to get by on reputation alone (I've yet to read her do anything that would warrant her the title of "living legend") and who cares only about said reputation and her legacy being the Aes Sedai who was able to rein in the Dragon Reborn and lead him by the hand. That's all she cares about.

 

Not once have I read any Cadsuane PoV where she expresses any kind of concern for the "al'Thor boy" or anyone else for that matter. All she's always thinking about is how to use her reputation to have it easy and get by w/o any real effort or should that fail, bully and intimidate people to get her way. No wisdom and no wits from this one, like ever. IMO, to be on the side of the Light you have to genuinely care about people (a la Nynaeve, for instance) and this woman doesn't give a hoot about anyone but herself.

 

Perhaps this is what leads many to suspect her a Darkfriend, because in a way she's as bad --if not worse-- than all of them.

 

Now I don't want to defend Cadsuane too much because I've never really like her because she is definitely a bully. It would be one thing to bully Rand as a strategy because he doesn't respond to anything else, but she is a rude bully to everyone else as well.

That's not true. Look at how she deals with Verin, or Sorilea. In fact, she is very respectful of Sorilea, a most unusual attitude from an AS towards a wilder, and one of such negligible strength. Another example would be Samitsu - Cadsuane admits in her POV that trying to bully her would be counter productive, and instead praises her abilities with Healing. So we have clearly seen that Cadsuane does not just bully people, nor does she always attempt to do so from the first. She treats different people differently, respecting people for their skills and abilities, not suffering fools gladly. So her actions to Rand are a deliberate strategy, because she feels that's the best way to deal with him. She even expresses concern for him, and notes that she will not hurt him more than she has to (although he was unconcious at the time). She is also regretful at having to bring down Aleis in Far Madding as a result of Rand's actions - this was a woman she liked and respected, who was good at her job, but who got in Rand's way, and consequently had to be removed. She is most definitely on his side, above all others. Her treatment of Tam was rather out of character, and to an extent that can be attributed to the stress she was under at the time. And part can also be blamed on Sanderson's dislike of the character - he doesn't write her well.

[FarShainMael]

I don't think Cadsuane bullies for the sake of it, either. Consider that she worked out how to break Semirhage by asking herself what it would take to break her. And she was uneasy about it. That is not the action of a bully, IMO.

 

 

(looks around to see if QuietAiel is lurking in the shadows.. no, good. )

[Darth Krewl]

I don't think Cadsuane bullies for the sake of it, either. Consider that she worked out how to break Semirhage by asking herself what it would take to break her. And she was uneasy about it. That is not the action of a bully, IMO.

 

No, she's not a bully just for the sake of it. Like I said before, she would just seem to try and get by on her reputation and powers too much, instead of resorting to wits, subtlety and cleverness (a la Moiraine, for instance) to get results. I just believe that, like most every other Aes Sedai of the Third Age, Cadsuane is too entrenched in her ways, too stubborn; spoiled rotten by decades of getting results through her usual ways most of the time, to make the necessary changes in order to obtain results.

 

But, why would some people (not me, I must clarify) consider her a Darkfriend, if not for her very questionable ways? It's precisely because she comes out across as selfish, abusive and scheming that some folk tend to suspect that. So, while not one of the "bad guys" per se, the woman is extremely flawed and has been seeing her ways fail, to the point where she's been forced to yield to the Dragon Reborn, as we've clearly seen in the last couple of books.

 

In all fairness to her, I believe that, like every other character in the books, the woman's been facing some truly daunting challenges and clearly struggling to come out on top most of the time (see her huge failure when charged with the watch over Semirhage and what all that led to, precisely).

[Val Mickey]

All that apologising excludes the fact that she is a good bully.

 

If anyone has lied, it is Egwene. When she is raised to the Amyrlin Seat at Tar Valon, she's like 'I come humbly. And Obediently.'

 

Obedient. Baah!

Humble. Baah!!

[randsc]

Yeah, good thing Egwene hadn't yet sworn on the Oath Rod, eh?

 

As for Cadsuane, no, she's not a bully for the sake of it. She's a bully for the sake of getting her own way. I fail to see a moral distinction there. What she did to Tam, for example, is unquestionably bullying behavior. He was right to call her on it.

[capuga]

i always had a theory that when you swore on the oath rod, your life was cut by degrees depending on how many oaths you took, the aes sedai seem limited to one third their potential, so what if taking one of the oaths off, you then are given half your potential instead, that would explain why caddy has lived longer than any other aes sedai alive, and the using the OP as a weapon bit would probably be the one she took off, she is green isnt she? that would explain her use of the power on tam and a few other times when she has seemed excessive in the use.

her use of the OP on Tam was not as a weapon, for one thing she never harmed him. Also I don't think the number of oaths has anything to do with how long they live, since as far as we know all Black Ajar AS only swear one oath, if they lived longer, there would be some inconsistency in the records and someone would have caught on.

Actually, we are told at one point that the BA swear a "new trinity" of Oaths.

 

 

Cadsuane is a bit of a bully, but she's on the side of the Light, as confirmed by Verin, who didn't poison her once she confirmed it.

 

No, Cadsuane's no Darkfriend, I'm sure. But she's not on the side of the Light, either. Cadsuane's on Cadsuane's side. Plain and simple. She's a self-absorbed, ignorant who has managed to get by on reputation alone (I've yet to read her do anything that would warrant her the title of "living legend") and who cares only about said reputation and her legacy being the Aes Sedai who was able to rein in the Dragon Reborn and lead him by the hand. That's all she cares about.

 

Not once have I read any Cadsuane PoV where she expresses any kind of concern for the "al'Thor boy" or anyone else for that matter. All she's always thinking about is how to use her reputation to have it easy and get by w/o any real effort or should that fail, bully and intimidate people to get her way. No wisdom and no wits from this one, like ever. IMO, to be on the side of the Light you have to genuinely care about people (a la Nynaeve, for instance) and this woman doesn't give a hoot about anyone but herself.

 

Perhaps this is what leads many to suspect her a Darkfriend, because in a way she's as bad --if not worse-- than all of them.

 

Now I don't want to defend Cadsuane too much because I've never really like her because she is definitely a bully. It would be one thing to bully Rand as a strategy because he doesn't respond to anything else, but she is a rude bully to everyone else as well.

That's not true. Look at how she deals with Verin, or Sorilea. In fact, she is very respectful of Sorilea, a most unusual attitude from an AS towards a wilder, and one of such negligible strength. Another example would be Samitsu - Cadsuane admits in her POV that trying to bully her would be counter productive, and instead praises her abilities with Healing. So we have clearly seen that Cadsuane does not just bully people, nor does she always attempt to do so from the first. She treats different people differently, respecting people for their skills and abilities, not suffering fools gladly. So her actions to Rand are a deliberate strategy, because she feels that's the best way to deal with him. She even expresses concern for him, and notes that she will not hurt him more than she has to (although he was unconcious at the time). She is also regretful at having to bring down Aleis in Far Madding as a result of Rand's actions - this was a woman she liked and respected, who was good at her job, but who got in Rand's way, and consequently had to be removed. She is most definitely on his side, above all others. Her treatment of Tam was rather out of character, and to an extent that can be attributed to the stress she was under at the time. And part can also be blamed on Sanderson's dislike of the character - he doesn't write her well.

 

I guess I will have to concede that she is not always a bully. The examples you mentioned are good ones. And honestly I don't really even have much of a problem with her bullying those that should be able to stand up to her - Rand, other Aes Sedai, political figures, etc. I think the point that stuck in my mind when I think of her being a bully was the way that she treated a servant at the Far Madding palace. Wish I had the books with me so I could quote but I remember her being rude to this lowly servant for no reason. Made me think of a Sirius Black quote from Harry Potter - To get the true measure of a man, look at how he treats those under him, not how he treats his equals.

[Darth Krewl]

As for Cadsuane, no, she's not a bully for the sake of it. She's a bully for the sake of getting her own way. I fail to see a moral distinction there. What she did to Tam, for example, is unquestionably bullying behavior. He was right to call her on it.

 

My point exactly. Good thing I'm not the only one who noticed the wrongness in this not-so-small detail.

[babuada]

She is an old grand ma. She was stressed and acted accordingly. She is a good bully, like old women are sometimes hot tempered. As for her motivation, she does care about others, but gives the need of Rand higher priority. She failed sometimes and acknowledged it. But she did not care to share the responsibility of her failure or appologise. What do you expect from a grand ma! She does not think of Rand as a tool. In ToM she feels proud about him the way he humbly withstood the beating and humiliation from the Borderlander Monarchs (her POV). I would say she thinks about him as her grandson.

[Mr Ares]

i always had a theory that when you swore on the oath rod, your life was cut by degrees depending on how many oaths you took, the aes sedai seem limited to one third their potential, so what if taking one of the oaths off, you then are given half your potential instead, that would explain why caddy has lived longer than any other aes sedai alive, and the using the OP as a weapon bit would probably be the one she took off, she is green isnt she? that would explain her use of the power on tam and a few other times when she has seemed excessive in the use.

her use of the OP on Tam was not as a weapon, for one thing she never harmed him. Also I don't think the number of oaths has anything to do with how long they live, since as far as we know all Black Ajar AS only swear one oath, if they lived longer, there would be some inconsistency in the records and someone would have caught on.

Actually, we are told at one point that the BA swear a "new trinity" of Oaths.

 

 

Cadsuane is a bit of a bully, but she's on the side of the Light, as confirmed by Verin, who didn't poison her once she confirmed it.

 

No, Cadsuane's no Darkfriend, I'm sure. But she's not on the side of the Light, either. Cadsuane's on Cadsuane's side. Plain and simple. She's a self-absorbed, ignorant who has managed to get by on reputation alone (I've yet to read her do anything that would warrant her the title of "living legend") and who cares only about said reputation and her legacy being the Aes Sedai who was able to rein in the Dragon Reborn and lead him by the hand. That's all she cares about.

 

Not once have I read any Cadsuane PoV where she expresses any kind of concern for the "al'Thor boy" or anyone else for that matter. All she's always thinking about is how to use her reputation to have it easy and get by w/o any real effort or should that fail, bully and intimidate people to get her way. No wisdom and no wits from this one, like ever. IMO, to be on the side of the Light you have to genuinely care about people (a la Nynaeve, for instance) and this woman doesn't give a hoot about anyone but herself.

 

Perhaps this is what leads many to suspect her a Darkfriend, because in a way she's as bad --if not worse-- than all of them.

 

Now I don't want to defend Cadsuane too much because I've never really like her because she is definitely a bully. It would be one thing to bully Rand as a strategy because he doesn't respond to anything else, but she is a rude bully to everyone else as well.

That's not true. Look at how she deals with Verin, or Sorilea. In fact, she is very respectful of Sorilea, a most unusual attitude from an AS towards a wilder, and one of such negligible strength. Another example would be Samitsu - Cadsuane admits in her POV that trying to bully her would be counter productive, and instead praises her abilities with Healing. So we have clearly seen that Cadsuane does not just bully people, nor does she always attempt to do so from the first. She treats different people differently, respecting people for their skills and abilities, not suffering fools gladly. So her actions to Rand are a deliberate strategy, because she feels that's the best way to deal with him. She even expresses concern for him, and notes that she will not hurt him more than she has to (although he was unconcious at the time). She is also regretful at having to bring down Aleis in Far Madding as a result of Rand's actions - this was a woman she liked and respected, who was good at her job, but who got in Rand's way, and consequently had to be removed. She is most definitely on his side, above all others. Her treatment of Tam was rather out of character, and to an extent that can be attributed to the stress she was under at the time. And part can also be blamed on Sanderson's dislike of the character - he doesn't write her well.

 

I guess I will have to concede that she is not always a bully. The examples you mentioned are good ones. And honestly I don't really even have much of a problem with her bullying those that should be able to stand up to her - Rand, other Aes Sedai, political figures, etc. I think the point that stuck in my mind when I think of her being a bully was the way that she treated a servant at the Far Madding palace. Wish I had the books with me so I could quote but I remember her being rude to this lowly servant for no reason. Made me think of a Sirius Black quote from Harry Potter - To get the true measure of a man, look at how he treats those under him, not how he treats his equals.

Interesting about that servant. I will have a look for that if I get time. Some further points in her favour: men who have been gentled by her tend to live longer than others. Lord Algarin's borther, Emarin, survived ten years, and Algarin is thankful to Cadsuane for all she did for him. Of course, I don't expect people to start liking Cadsuane - she might be a good person, but she's seldom nice. But I might at least be able to get people to hate her for the right reasons.

 

 

She is an old grand ma. She was stressed and acted accordingly. She is a good bully, like old women are sometimes hot tempered. As for her motivation, she does care about others, but gives the need of Rand higher priority. She failed sometimes and acknowledged it. But she did not care to share the responsibility of her failure or appologise. What do you expect from a grand ma! She does not think of Rand as a tool. In ToM she feels proud about him the way he humbly withstood the beating and humiliation from the Borderlander Monarchs (her POV). I would say she thinks about him as her grandson.

Interesting you should say that, as RJ himself described her as like a tough maiden aunt.