Tuon needs to go down!

[Guest randont]

Tuon is one of those characters that I despise above all else. To be able to torture and kill with no remorse like she does reminds me a lot of a darkfriend or forsaken. I know that was how she was raised but I can't excuse her even under those circumstances. I'm just itching to see her fubared! I hate hate hate her and all of the "nobles" who've ever lived or ever will live that think they're better than us.

 

 

FREEEEDOOOOOMMMMM!!!

 

Tuon is a mix between Paris Hilton and Hitler.

[RyanDuranGeiger]

Hmm, I know I'm gonna be alone on this..

But, I really like Tuon.

[Lynchgrinch]

heh, yeah i like Tuon too, but i do agree that she is more reasonable around Mat...dunno whats on the horizon for seanchan though, wait and find out i guess!

[Reptyle]

Good to see I'm not the only one who has a problem with her...

[username13]

Collaring her could kinda... um... annoy Mat a tad.... but she does need to be humbled, just not via the adam

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

I would like to see her collared and humbled for a short period of time. Then when she has gained some sense of humility and priority, I wouldn't really mind seeing the collar being removed.

 

She's a good person. But her idiotic and supremely biased views need to be corrected.

[Darth Krewl]

"Tuon needs to go down!"?

 

Nah, she doesn't. At least not for the reasons most feel she should go down.

 

While no fan of this character in the very least, I understand that this is just a young girl; a very spoiled, pampered one, but a very ignorant and gullible young girl all the same, who has been raised and molded in the ways of her people. What she does is not evil per se (like a Darkfriend). It's just that she doesn't know any better.

 

I'm pretty sure her marriage to Mat was precisely so that the girl can see the light, redeems herself and become one of the good guys. So, I'd put it like this, if the clueless airhead learns to see the light, she deserves redemption. If she doesn't, she deserves punishment. Simple as that.

 

Now, Aes Sedai on the other hand, those DO need to go down ASAP! lol

[Tom Sawyer]

I think that she's a horrible character in every way, shape and form. She's badly written and two-dimensional and those two dimensions are bad. The worst decision in the series was to pair a character like her up with a character like Mat. The premise of their relationship is abysmal and their interactions are inane. I tried to like her early on for the sake of liking the one they paired Mat up with, but I couldn't do it. Her pro-slavery and oppression arguments sickened me and she has zero leadership qualities and even the Seanchan don't deserve someone like her. The biggest letdown I felt in the series was when Rand decided not to balefire her and my opinion of her was confirmed in the last book where she took her relaxation by watching someone get tortured.

 

It literally makes the bile rise in my throat everytime she's mentioned - especially by Mat, who deserves so much better - and I really wish that she'd been left out of the series entirely and Semirhage kept in charge of the Seanchan Empire, so you'd have a straight-out villian running those evil bastards and not a Paris Hilton/Hitler wannabe (great analogy, btw) who's somehow supposed to be referenced as a good guy.

 

I just totally hate her.

[scott7279]

Tuon isn't a bad person. In most ways, she is an exemplary ruler. Her people are safe, secure, and well taken care of. Her only downfall is regarding channelers.

 

Let's look at it from her point of view: Her nation was founded by a man that loathed Aes Sedai. They come to a new land, and are met by crazy folks wielding the One Power to battle each other. The only way to make them safe was to collar them. This has worked for them for 1000 years, and now we expect them to just say "Oh, well these Aes Sedai are different..."

 

Come on, people, you can't hold it against her just because she views Aes Sedai as dangerous animals that needs to be controlled.

 

That being said, she will have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with Mat (and Setalle) and will begin to the process of allowing "new" channelers to learn under the WT.

[David Selig]

Tuon isn't a bad person. In most ways, she is an exemplary ruler. Her people are safe, secure, and well taken care of.

Except those who happen to be slaves. And then there's the secret police which can torture anyone suspicious. But apart from that, everything is great in the Seanchan lands...

[scott7279]

Tuon isn't a bad person. In most ways, she is an exemplary ruler. Her people are safe, secure, and well taken care of.

Except those who happen to be slaves. And then there's the secret police which can torture anyone suspicious. But apart from that, everything is great in the Seanchan lands...

 

I would, again, put that back to the Seanchan Culture. You really can't trust the other high-ups in their society (consequently,they are the ones that are questioned and tortured). For the common folks, they have a good life (Even Rand commented on this).

 

Obviously, there are some issues with the Seanchan form of government (slavery, questioners, etc). I didn't say they had the perfect form of government, but they do some things exceptionally well. They have a very rigid hierarchical structure of government, but in a pre-industrialized society, that is often what is needed to keep the country peaceful and prosperous (unless the entire ruling family is killed...sucks for the Seanchan).

[Sid]

Tuon is doing her role to the best of her ability in regards to her place in Seanchan society and how she has been brought up to believe the correct way to act in her position. She has been brought up to believe that people that channel must be chained and enslaved for the good of the empire. The Empress has always been the most important person in the world. She finds the fact that there are free channelers in the Westlands as unsettling as most non-Seanchan people find the slavery customs in Seanchan. She always keeps her promises and bargains. I never thought I would actually defend Tuon....

 

But yes, she does have to somehow come to some kind of realization that the Seanchan beliefs aren't the end all be all of how things should be everywhere in the world. I believe she will at some point, but I also believe that it won't be nearly as satisfying as I want it to be. Frankly, I'd be happy if Mat gets an outright win in a disagreement with her, like one shining moment where she is completely at a loss for words and can't retaliate. It's something I'd love to see, but he'd pay for it later for sure, and that probably won't even happen.

[Talmanes]

Lol I have to say I thought of something else when I first read the title of this thread.

I think she'll end up important. Considering her relationship with Mat and everyone else it just seems likely.

[Zentari]

Obviously, there are some issues with the Seanchan form of government (slavery, questioners, etc). I didn't say they had the perfect form of government, but they do some things exceptionally well. They have a very rigid hierarchical structure of government, but in a pre-industrialized society, that is often what is needed to keep the country peaceful and prosperous (unless the entire ruling family is killed...sucks for the Seanchan).

Some issues here being the equivalent of saying the ocean is slightly wet.

 

Slavery is a FUNDAMENTAL part of their culture in more ways than one, so no , their society is as rotten as it gets.

[David Selig]

The Seanchan administration functioned really efficiently before Tuon came over, BTW. It's way too early to say she's an exemplary ruler in any way.

 

Her main actions as an Empress so far have been ordering an attack on the White Tower and refusing a peace treaty with the Dragon Reborn, both of which are dubious on the eve of the Last Battle.

[Darth Krewl]

The Seanchan administration functioned really efficiently before Tuon came over, BTW. It's way too early to say she's an exemplary ruler in any way.

 

Her main actions as an Empress so far have been ordering an attack on the White Tower and refusing a peace treaty with the Dragon Reborn, both of which are dubious on the eve of the Last Battle.

 

I agree on this, for the most part. Except for Tuon's attack on the White Tower. Since Seanchan prophecies are different to those of the West, to a Seanchan, attacking the White Tower wouldn't be a dubious move at the brink of the Last Battle. Quite the contrary.

 

Based on their beliefs and traditions, it only makes sense that the Seanchan would seek to have as many Damane ready to fight in Tarmon Gai'don as they could. Reproachable and reprehensible, yes. But true, from their point of view, nonetheless.

[mb]

Voted other. She setting damane free.

Though she being humbled and she making peace would come close.

[moratcorlm]

I'm a Tuon fan.

[Blackhoof]

i hate her. I just do. shes annoying, self-righteous, sadistic, slavery-approving, hypocritical and just down-right medacious.

 

I hope she gets a serious weake-up call that involves pain and her breaking up with mat. He needs an ACTUAL wife, not a malicious little child who only married him to amuse herself.

[Androl]

i hate her. I just do. shes annoying, self-righteous, sadistic, slavery-approving, hypocritical and just down-right medacious.

 

I hope she gets a serious weake-up call that involves pain and her breaking up with mat. He needs an ACTUAL wife, not a malicious little child who only married him to amuse herself.

I could live with that!

 

Baring that, I choose:

 

Collared, humbled, AND taken by the Forsaken and verbally ridiculed by them on how they used her, Author and the Seanchan Empire to work for the DO, then rescued by Mat and made to be his Subordinate in the Seanchan rule = meanwhile making peace and settle for ruling the current Seanchan ruled lands only.

[Guest Laxave]

Tuon certainly needs to be humbled and learn to know her place. She may be a powerful monarch and all but she's still not even near in power and importance to the dragon. She should be bowing to the dragon and fight at the last battle.

To see Rand bow for Tuon would be the most dissatisfying moment of the whole series!

 

And as for Seanchan, I think their continent will end being the same as when Hawking came there the first time. The wheel turns.

So the Seanchan will be losing contact with their people on the other side and they will probably have a big kingdom!

[Demiandre]

I donnt know what people have against the Seanchan. It took them centuries to conquer Seanchan and finally bring peace to the whole continent on the other side of the Aryth Ocean, because of the Armies of the Night and also the Aes Sedai using the Power to gain advantage and power and kill also. They needed to be controlled. They unfortunately used the a'dam, which enabled them to control them and use their power. What would you have done in their shoes? Kill them? Difficult to kill an unbound Aes Sedai. And that would be a genocide. Taking them prisoner is wiser, even if it became slavery.

 

Let's talk about da'covale. That isn't a bad system, as da'covale can have great power and statue. Look at the Deathwatch Guard, or the seeker. Rven so'jihn can be of high importance and power. Selucia is a powerful so'jihn, in more than one way. Why does it matter that you are property to someone, if it means good life, prestige (sometimes), security (relatively)?

 

And last, Tuon is a good ruler. She is short sighted on some topic, but nonetheless, she wants security, peace and food for her people. She masterfully convinced Beslan, attacked the White Tower succesfully, and control half the main continent. That is with the Ever Victorious Army, but then, she is the Empress.

 

And the kidnapping/flight/marriage with Mat was awesome I think. You see that Mat and Tuon PoV differ on many thing, but she aknowledge his strength and wisdom in certain matter. She chose her husband wisely. For the good of her people and goals. And she is strong-willed, smart, goes to the point. Why so much people hate her? I don't "like" her, but I think she is a good character.

 

Also try to remember it's only a book, guys! ;)

[T00thbrush]

Why does it matter that you are property to someone, if it means good life, prestige (sometimes), security (relatively)?

 

Freedom is an important value that seems to be hardwired into most humain beings. As well as a sense of self, and desire for independence.

 

You're playing a good devil's advocate though! I think the Seanchan are a believable society, and as such can be understood as you've just explained, but liked... that's another matter altogether. They do have a very cruel streak, and are also very rigid. Those are not traits easily liked, and truth be told they shouldn't be. They are conquerors and slave masters.

 

I think it's an interesting point that Seanchan rule actually brings stability and contentment in some of the lands they've conquered, and it's a good balance to be told of that, and shown they are not all evil. But this peace and happinness does come at the price of accepting to obey them unquestioningly, and at the sacrifice of a minority (channelers). Which could raise a very thorny question - is it OK to sacrifice a minority to ensure the lives of the majority? Now that's slipping onto dangerous ground indeed...

[Demiandre]

Dangerous ground indeed. I see what you mean, and I partially agree. Well then, what is the difference between the Seanchan empire and France in the latest Moyen-Age? Slavery, God-King but also Hierarchy, Nobility, stability (wasn't that the devise, btw? :D just a joke, mind)

 

And we can't blame the Seanchan for slavery. That was the mogical action, and once it is started, it's hard to go the other way. Look at our history. How long did slavery lasted? How long before ancient slaves received the same rights as slavers had? It will just be a little more difficult to free damane.

[T00thbrush]

There is no doubt whatsoever that real, past civilizations within our world have been just as bad (and sometimes worse) than the Seanchan. I'll even go further and postulate this is a big part of why they are so hated Their actions can be explained, and understood. But that does not necessarily mean they can be approved or forgiven.