A Memory of Light Speculation

[RembrandtQ.Einstein]

Actually johthohar, this is a philosophical question that no one has ever been able to answer completely - just how much life is enough life ?

For all intents and purposes the instinct to survive is the prime motivating force for all life - that is you will find most people say "As long as there is life, anything can be tolerated..." which is certainly true. But then you also read cases of people who die shortly after their twins/spouses, or in some cases very old people (perhaps in their 90s or so) who just say "I'm done, I'm ready to go".

 

There is no way of answering it, but would a 600 year long life really be better than 300 years ? After all there is no indication that time passes more slowly for AS than for anyone else. Especially when you see your friends and loved ones change, reach different stages of their lives, and yes, eventually happily pass on while you remain as you are, forever (agesslessly) 20isly years old. At first blush it may sound awesome, but is it really ? Can you imagine the loneliness ?

 

The best response I have ever read (me personally) comes from Neil Gaimans Sandman series in which (for various reasons) a guy dies when he is about 19,000 and says "I did pretty good didn't I ? I got 19,000 years" and he is told "you got what any of us get, Bernie, ONE lifetime".

 

And then you have countless examples of people who willingly die, or are prepared to die on a daily basis for the "greater good" - armed services, police, firefighters etc etc etc.

 

What I'm trying to say is that (though it didn't seem to work out that way) the AS who introduced the self binding probably felt that the price of a couple of centuries wasn't too steep to pay (given that they would live insanely long anyway) for stabilizing society. Far from retarded in my opinion.

 

/rambling

 

 

There is no greater punishment than immortality.

[johthohar]

rambling

 

Haha... See how I'm funny? Anyway.....

 

To say that the introduction of the Three Oaths stabilized society after the breaking is naive in the extreme. And the fact that they are giving up half of their natural life span is pretty stupid. Retarded may have been a bad choice of words but I've never been a very PC person.

 

Philosophy is all well and good but whether or not 300 years is enough versus 600 years isn't the point. Their primary concern should have been about preserving knowledge. Which they did a piss poor job of. Half the lifespan means twice the number of generations between Age of Legends Aes Sedai and modern Aes Sedai. More generations of Aes Sedai means more knowledge lost. Not to mention it cut in half the time the AoL Aes Sedai had to record or impart all that knowledge to the next generation. Of course that is assuming that the Three Oaths were instituted before all the AoL Sisters were dead. They knew that if the Forsaken ever escaped from the bore that they would have all the knowledge of the previous age. They should have been making sure whatever weaves and artifacts that survived the breaking were saved if they could have been used against the Shadow. Now they did collect a pretty good stockpile of angreal and ter'angreal but modern Aes Sedai have no idea how most of the ter'angreal work. Again, failure to preserve knowledge. So, instead of preparing to defend against the Shadow should it rise again, they decided to eliminate male channeling and take all the piss out of the women. And if you think about it, the Three Oaths do nothing but impede the forces of the Light. The oath against lying is nothing short of completely pointless. The Aes Sedai of today have found every possible way to be dishonest without actually lying. Because of the oath against using the power as a weapon none of the Sisters are very well practiced at fighting with Saidar. Swearing off making power wrought weapons was beyond stupid. Nothing is going to stop dreadlords from arming the Shadow's armies but you deny the same advantage to the armies of the Light. Egwene thought about abolishing the Oaths but oh no! Siuan thought it would give the Sisters an identity crisis. Aes Sedai are an exaggerated version of what is wrong with modern governments. They think they know what is best for everyone but in reality they are only screwing us all.

 

[/rant]

[LukeDriscoll]

every one is going to die and the creator will remake the earth he will say let there be light and there will be light he will create the creepy things that creepth and the swamy things that swameth and all other animals then he will male man in his image then woman ...............see where im going with this.

 

this would be the worst possible ending. i have read many books where all the magic and mythical creatures die and it ends up being our world or something like that if this ends like that i might just stab my self in the neck

[TheAngryDruid]

Boy, after the disappointment that was ToM, in many ways, I'm afraid to speculate. Indeed, I feel the end will be rushed and unsatisfying, despite some really nice moments, much like ToM was for me.

 

First, I better get some sort of explanation for what Rand and Egwene have been doing for the last month, and why both thought it was a good idea to basically let the BT and the 50 AS there, the Seanchan, Lan, and almost all of the Borderlands slide until the day before the Last Battle. Not to mention actually giving someone other than Min the task of actually trying to figure out how to win the thing.

 

When Bashere arrived at Maradon, he said "We should have been here days ago.." To what was he referring? Rand arrived with "large numbers" of Asha'man and Aes Sedai. Other than his sworn nine (who seem to be scattered), Caddy's group of what, five (who didn't appear to be there) and the sworn sisters from Cairhien, he doesn't seem to have any. Is 30 a "large number?"

 

OK, now that that is off my chest.

 

In terms of battles:

 

1) The Battle for Caemlyn is started, with half the Band and the mercs around town there, with Taim in control of the BT, and the Dreamspike preventing Gateways in (at least to the BT area. Elayne doesn't mention Gateways not working (she got to Cairhein OK after Gawyn left), so the forces of the Light should be able to Gate in to the Palacea area, if not the BT.

 

I'm already slightly ticked here (Verin should have done a LOT better), I hope the rescue/battle makes up for it. I think Elayne should find out immediately (during the night), since Gateways seem to be working for her. I'd assume all the FoM stuff will be postponed until Caemlyn is dealt with. If somehow they can't get messages out (via the Palace or Mat), then that is lame.

 

Personally, if Caemlyn is in danger, I'd assume Elayne (and Perrin, as her subject) would have to go back. And Mat would for the Band as well. Or he may stay in Caemlyn, and send Grady/Thom/Moiraine ahead with the message, if Elayne doesn't already know. And Rand does have responsibility for the BT, he should have to do something. And where is Logain?

 

2) Lan at Tarwin's gap.

 

Don't know where he is in the timeline, but it has to be fairly close. He noticed the Nynaeve had his bond when he was on the Kandori/Arafellian border, and now he's at the Gap. Criminal that he still has no help. Shame on Rand and Egwene. They had a month.

 

There had better be some Aiel there helping, or Dobraine. Or Logain. Or some sisters. Something.

 

3) Heethe Tower burning in Kandor, and likely battle raging in Arafel as well.

 

Hopefull Alanna did something. Again, it is criminal there has been no help from the Dragon or the WT. And explanation is needed. At a minimum, the Borderlander's need to be sent North immediately, and the Shienarran's to the Gap. With some channelers.

 

4) Imminent Seanchan attack on the WT.

 

Someone needs to kick Tuon's ass. And Elaida's. I hope it is Artur Hawkwing, with an assist from Mat. Maybe after Joline's message, Egwene had the sense to bring the Horn with her. But I doubt it. Don't know when the attack will occur. But I'm guessing the day of the meeting.

-----------------------------------

 

At a minimum, we'll need the Caemlyn/BT plots finished up for the LB. And probably the WT/Seanchan plot as well.

 

In terms of plots/personel:

 

1) We need to figure out the Dragon's Peace.

2) Aviendha need to come in with her info.

3) Multiple Moiraine reunions, we better find out her "wishes."

4) Rand finds out he's a daddy, and meets his half brother.

5) Mat needs to head to the Tower and get the Horn of Valere.

6) Tuon needs to be confronted by Rand AND Mat. And get her ass kicked.

7) The WT (and Siuan/Leane/Moiraine) needs to figure out that stilling can be completely healed, lets try it on those three, shall we?

8) Loial and the Ogier need to make an impact.

9. Is that whole Seeking the Song thing going to come to a head

[Hopefire]

So, one book left to tie things off with. A fair number of major characters have shown commitment to wed, but no nuptials yet. Siuan and Bryne. Egwene and Gawyn. Moiraine and Thom. Berelain and Galad. Flinn and Corele, maybe. Logain and Gabrelle, maybe. Heck, Rand and Min, Elayne and Aviendha. As well as multiple armies and their respective camp followers, Aes Sedai, Warders, probable some Asha'man, and most importantly: at least two Ta'veren, probably soon to be three.

 

What happens around a ta'veren? And given that Rand seems to be only throwing off good vibes these days, what can you expect a lot of?

 

The Third Age equivalent of a lot of Barry White music, that's what.

[Incom]

Day that dawns twice = Rand makes some stupid mistake, DO wins and destroys the Wheel. Creator remakes the Wheel, sets it at dawn of that day, Rand's memories are intact but nobody else realizes what happened. With his new memories (and probably an offhand comment from Moiraine) Rand realizes that the point of no return for the world's destruction is about to pass and does it right, winning the day.

 

JM2C.

[OptimusPrime]

I want the Dragon vs Nae'blis line to get some serious focus. They should both figure out how to transfer personalities but Moridin gets the better of Rand, and Moiraines return is to battle Moridin through Rands mental state by taking Alannas bond to Rand and influencing his moods using psychological techniques she learned while bonded to Lan.

[Lacanos]

rambling

 

Haha... See how I'm funny? Anyway.....

 

To say that the introduction of the Three Oaths stabilized society after the breaking is naive in the extreme. And the fact that they are giving up half of their natural life span is pretty stupid. Retarded may have been a bad choice of words but I've never been a very PC person.

 

Philosophy is all well and good but whether or not 300 years is enough versus 600 years isn't the point. Their primary concern should have been about preserving knowledge. Which they did a piss poor job of. Half the lifespan means twice the number of generations between Age of Legends Aes Sedai and modern Aes Sedai. More generations of Aes Sedai means more knowledge lost. Not to mention it cut in half the time the AoL Aes Sedai had to record or impart all that knowledge to the next generation. Of course that is assuming that the Three Oaths were instituted before all the AoL Sisters were dead. They knew that if the Forsaken ever escaped from the bore that they would have all the knowledge of the previous age. They should have been making sure whatever weaves and artifacts that survived the breaking were saved if they could have been used against the Shadow. Now they did collect a pretty good stockpile of angreal and ter'angreal but modern Aes Sedai have no idea how most of the ter'angreal work. Again, failure to preserve knowledge. So, instead of preparing to defend against the Shadow should it rise again, they decided to eliminate male channeling and take all the piss out of the women. And if you think about it, the Three Oaths do nothing but impede the forces of the Light. The oath against lying is nothing short of completely pointless. The Aes Sedai of today have found every possible way to be dishonest without actually lying. Because of the oath against using the power as a weapon none of the Sisters are very well practiced at fighting with Saidar. Swearing off making power wrought weapons was beyond stupid. Nothing is going to stop dreadlords from arming the Shadow's armies but you deny the same advantage to the armies of the Light. Egwene thought about abolishing the Oaths but oh no! Siuan thought it would give the Sisters an identity crisis. Aes Sedai are an exaggerated version of what is wrong with modern governments. They think they know what is best for everyone but in reality they are only screwing us all.

 

[/rant]

Quick thing: AoL Aes Sedai didn't swear on the oath rod even during the breaking - by the time of the founding of the tower, they were bemoaning losses of knowledge from the AoL, but once it was institutionalized it seems very unlikely knowledge would be lost further.

[BananaOnDrugs]

Just skipped all of the above posts so I don't have a clue wht has alrdy been said but I'm pretty sure wht's gonna happen at the end of AMoL - The DO will win and the forsaken will start singing The Chosen Ones by Dream Evil...yeah

[bysomy]

Elayne will either die/abdicate since the queen of Andor in Avi's vision was not Elayne.

[Wheel of Cyberness]

IN last battle: there's obviously gonna be a massive fight, rand v DO. Perrin and mat are gonna be like 'can we help?' and rand will be like '..no.. just no..' and they'll go off and woop some trollocs and myrdaals (spelling??????). I have a feeling wolves will come out and be like 'revenge!!' and they'll help perrin or infuse perrin with some awesome wolfish power.

 

BEEEEEfore all this WT agrees to stop being a b*tch and help rand. Everyone agrees with rand on breaking the current seals and making new ones. BT gets sorted out, Taim gets owned by logain and all is well. BT & WT like become sort of half-allies? BT and WT establish mini-towers in other cities, Rand screams at seanchan 'HELP ME damn it and stop being so god damn selfish' and they'll be like 'duh.. ok'.

 

Back to LB: Rand regenerates his hand into some sort of hand of light? only temporary though but woops DO's *ss with callandor which he somehow finds a way to get past problem of no buffer for protection. Dark one weak, forsaken are all like 'Oooooooooo dear' and loyal male asha'man and aes sedai break seals and place new ones and dark one's like 'i shall return!!.. oh wait nooooooooo'. The end

 

Epilogue: rand living with avi, min and maybe or maybe not elayne. new babies from each.

Further on: elayne dead, andor rules by children of hers, rand erm very old? avi, very old? min, very old? children grown up, married, etc.

 

 

Or something along these lines

[tneva82]

They should have been making sure whatever weaves and artifacts that survived the breaking were saved if they could have been used against the Shadow. Now they did collect a pretty good stockpile of angreal and ter'angreal but modern Aes Sedai have no idea how most of the ter'angreal work. Again, failure to preserve knowledge.

 

Knowledge was lost during breaking when many AS died due to breaking(causing loss of waves only those AS knew) and written works were largely lost(good bye recorded versions of notes etc). That knowledge was lost LONG before white rod use was started(indeed they had no detailed knowledge of it's working by then).

 

Blaming them using oath rod for loss of knowledge is silly when that knowledge was lost generations BEFORE use of oath rod.

[Incom]

Just noticed something while rereading TEOTW.

 

The Horn of Valere's inscription, "The grave is no bar to my call", in Old Tongue, is "Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin".

 

Anyone else notice this? Has it been pointed out in-story already?

[Tiinker]

IN last battle: there's obviously gonna be a massive fight, rand v DO. Perrin and mat are gonna be like 'can we help?' and rand will be like '..no.. just no..' and they'll go off and woop some trollocs and myrdaals (spelling??????). I have a feeling wolves will come out and be like 'revenge!!' and they'll help perrin or infuse perrin with some awesome wolfish power.

 

BEEEEEfore all this WT agrees to stop being a b*tch and help rand. Everyone agrees with rand on breaking the current seals and making new ones. BT gets sorted out, Taim gets owned by logain and all is well. BT & WT like become sort of half-allies? BT and WT establish mini-towers in other cities, Rand screams at seanchan 'HELP ME damn it and stop being so god damn selfish' and they'll be like 'duh.. ok'.

 

Back to LB: Rand regenerates his hand into some sort of hand of light? only temporary though but woops DO's *ss with callandor which he somehow finds a way to get past problem of no buffer for protection. Dark one weak, forsaken are all like 'Oooooooooo dear' and loyal male asha'man and aes sedai break seals and place new ones and dark one's like 'i shall return!!.. oh wait nooooooooo'. The end

 

Epilogue: rand living with avi, min and maybe or maybe not elayne. new babies from each.

Further on: elayne dead, andor rules by children of hers, rand erm very old? avi, very old? min, very old? children grown up, married, etc.

 

 

Or something along these lines

 

lmaoo i love your detailed story telling mate!

[Tollieman]

Just noticed something while rereading TEOTW.

 

The Horn of Valere's inscription, "The grave is no bar to my call", in Old Tongue, is "Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin".

 

Anyone else notice this? Has it been pointed out in-story already?

 

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere (the regulars on this forum are bloody sharp!); I've seen the link, but I attributed it to the fact that the old tongue is difficult to translate and can have more than one meaning. In other words, 'Moridin' in that context means 'grave', but singularly, means 'Death'.

 

I personally don't think there's a link between Moridin and the Horn.

[Incom]

Not surprising.

 

I'd accept that... but why then is it capitalized? Just something random (there are many such things in WoT from what I can tell) that's started bugging me. For example, since EOTW is the only pre-Sanderson novel I have ATM (I library'd the rest), Lan breaks a knife on one of the seals without leaving a scratch, yet later it's shown that they're decaying and turning brittle... are some of them decaying and some not? What happens if Rand gets to SG and one of the seals is still working as intended?

 

I really need to get my hands on books 2-11 again.

[akira.taylor]

Not surprising.

 

I'd accept that... but why then is it capitalized? Just something random (there are many such things in WoT from what I can tell) that's started bugging me. For example, since EOTW is the only pre-Sanderson novel I have ATM (I library'd the rest), Lan breaks a knife on one of the seals without leaving a scratch, yet later it's shown that they're decaying and turning brittle... are some of them decaying and some not? What happens if Rand gets to SG and one of the seals is still working as intended?

 

I really need to get my hands on books 2-11 again.

 

I think they are decaying and turning brittle, but that hadn't set in to the point where a knife could damage the first seal (although it had already broken). Now, I would presume from that that seal number 1 still behaves like cuendillar, numbers 2 & 3 more or less do (not as tough, perhaps, but when applied to "invulnerable" that doesn't mean much), and the later seals are all fragile (one broke, the other three can be chipped with a knife, maybe broken by hand).

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

After pondering the meaning of Egwene's dream about the thirteen towers, I am beginning to wonder if Mierin(/Lanfear/Cyndane) is actually going to become the biggest evil in the series (not counting the Dark One). I would have strongly suspected that she would achieve some kind of redemption, but Robert Jordan seemed to flatly shoot down that idea in various comments that he'd made over the years (which I hadn't been aware of). He's set her up right from the beginning as something big, but so far we haven't seen any indication of what "big" might be in her case. I wonder if she was the puppeteer in Egwene's dream from so long ago. I wonder if she actually was telling the truth when she said that Ishamael thought he was controlling things but in fact it was she. I wonder if the whole presence of a mindtrap is itself some kind of trap, for Moridin or for Rand. Similarly, I wonder if her appearance at the end of ToM is also a trap, because if it isn't then I see no way for her not to be on the road to the redemption that Jordan strongly implied she would never receive. (Quadruple negative, FTW!)

 

In that vein, I'm also beginning to wonder if Rand and she are destined for some kind of shared fate outside the niceties of the dawn of the Fourth Age. Maybe they'll go off somewhere, together. Maybe they'll kill each other. Maybe they'll die together. Maybe they'll be sealed in with the Dark One. I don't think it's going to be a happy ending for either of them. The best I can hope for is a quiet, serene one.

 

All of this is just the wildest of speculation. Mierin might end up being killed off as lamely as most of the other Forsaken. But it'd feel damn good after all these years if she turned out to be the linchpin to the whole thing.

[Incom]

I'd save the "second-biggest evil" trophy for PF, but then again I like him as a character.

 

RANDOM ENDING SPECULATION: "three become one" is almost a meta-prophecy. As mentioned in another thread, there's a lot of trios this could refer to. But what if it's more than just one of said trios? Whether it's Callandor, the ta'veren, or Rand's lovers, there's a lot of ways the prophecy could be fulfilled--but perhaps the prophecy refers to itself? Like, three fulfillments for one prophecy?

 

Perhaps I should lay off the caffeine water ;)

[Puddleglum]

Heres what I think will happen, i really liked most of your ideas, but the Dark One is too strong to be stopped by mere humans. The only solution to the problem is: Rand arrives at Shayol Ghul and opens the bore. The Dark One has eagerly awaited that moment as he knows he will easily kick Rands ***. However in this very moment Rand drops his disguise and reveals himself as Chuck Norris who has roundhousekickkilled the real Dragon for stepping on his toe. He reveals a dirty secret of the Shadow namely that The dark one has a sexual relationship with Moridin, Aginor and Ishamael who really are Saddam Hussein, Mahmud Ahmadinedschad and Osama bin Laden. The Dark One is so embarrassed that he starts to cry and the world loses whatever fear there was thus taking his only real power. Chuck Norris then takes over the world to form a perfect Chucktatorship and everyone who questions him for not being mentioned in the profecies will be kicked out of the Pattern. In fact the Pattern itself is close to unraveling from all of the roundhousekicking (Balefire is an aes sedis pathetic try to copy a true Chuck Norris Rounhousekick) going on in those early months after the Dark one has been defeated.

 

just kidding

I am really intreaged as to what will happen to the Dragons. And I want to know how Mat is going to modify the crossbows in order to make them shoot faster. I hope they do not forget that. In order not to have a simple all's well that ends well ending, some important people will die. I hope its not Lan, but if it is, he will still find some time to knock nyn up with a child. Rand will likely die as well, but we will see if any of the coming back to life stories really happen.

I hate the seanchan and hope they will get their ***** kicked when trying to attack the white tower again. I hope tuon will be thrashed completely senseless in order to come to reason.

Well I really cant await the last book

[Songstress]

Taim is Moridin's right hand man and has been for years.

 

First time I read that, I thought it said, 'Tam', not 'Taim'. Slight difference...

 

I totally read it that way the first time too ;)

[Judemort]

Im hoping that Ishameal/Moridin returns to the light. I think he's sick of being spun out of the pattern to do the Great Lords bidding. In TGS- "The others are fools. They look for grand rewards in the eternities, but there will be no eternities. Only the now, the last days." He laughed again, and this time there was joy in it. True pleasure." He's probably excited that his cursed life is finally coming to an end. The flaw in his logic, is life is without love. Anyway. Whats an epic fantasy series without a theme of redemption?

[Songstress]

After the tender moment in ToM where Rand introduces Min to his father, I'm really looking forward to AMoL, when Tam will also meet Aviendha and the obviously pregnant Elayne.

 

The reaction should be entertaining.

[ranjitb]

It would be totally awesome if instead of the We-must-be-leaf-eaters self flagellation that is being forced down the throats of the Aiel, Aviendha were to return and be all like "I saw that Queen Tovarla's future bitchery resulted in the doom of my people" and stabs Elayne through the heart.

[Zodd]

With all the 'Matt travels the Halls of the White Tower looking for the Horn' interpretation of the prophecy at the end of ToM, I'd like to point out the fact that only two people are supposed to know where exactly the Horn is, and one of them is now dead. They are Verin and Siuan.

 

I believe in one of the books, (Creator help me I can't remember which), when Fain takes back to dagger, he wished he had more time to look through the store room of angreal for it, but doesn't have time (due to Alviarin and the fact he set off a ward).

 

I assume Siuan wouldn't leave one of the last hopes of the last battle in a semi-locked store room in a tower she assumes is filled with Black Ajah.

 

I propose, then, for the sake of interesting story telling, that the Horn is in fact in .... Caemlyn!

 

Things that *maybe* highlight this idea: Elaida's foretelling of Caemlyn royal line being at the center of winning the Last Battle.

 

Just some thoughts.