A Memory of Light Speculation

[Lisa Campbell]

Could dawn twice due to travelling. First dawn in the east and then after travelling to the west. Not sure of the geographic scale or time difference though.

[kristineaskada]

Now I have seen tons of what you guys( and girls ) have all said but none really said what I think has the eat chance of bening right. We know by aden future visions that they will win and Rand will NOT die, it was stated that "the dragon had left/deserted/abounded them. Keep in mind they don't say that about people who die, but anyway just think of it this way, after the last battle Rand goes to the orgers portal stone to leave that world with them because the dragon role was to win the last battle after that he would only stop the progress they would stop to make, the scean are at peace with everyone and te aiel because rand did not bow to there queen and thus show weakness, and at the end only Min goes with him because aven has to lead the aiel and elyane has here people,but before he leaves he uses the angel ( fat man with sword ) and make sure none can follow him, and something like in a way he will always watch them.

Well hope you guys liked my idea mesg me and tell me if you agree

 

 

I most certainly hope that this is NOT how it ends. This sounds an awful lot like how Terry Goodkind ended his Sword of Truth series and it was a total and complete COP OUT!!! It was no ending at all. Jordan was immensely more creative than Goodkind and I find it hard to believe this is how he would end his story. It would be glossing over everything with no real answer to anything. You could be right, but I pray you're not. I would be forever crushed and certain it wasn't Jordan's doing.

[FarShainMael]

I've just seen on the 'stuff Brandon says' thread, that apparently he's described Mat as 'the centre of all'. What ever that means..

 

For some time I've been playing with the thought that Nicola's Foretelling refers, not to Rand, but to Mat:

 

"The lion sword, the dedicated spear, she who sees beyond. Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. The great battle done, but the world not done with battle. The land divided by the return, and the guardians balance the servants. The future teeters on the edge of a blade."

 

This is definitely an Arthurian parallel; but Rand is not the only Arthur-figure in Randland. Mat 'son of battles' Cauthon is another.

 

So, I speculate that we may see Mat and Olver in mortal combat in Caemlyn Mordred-style (because someone has convinced Olver that Mat was responsible for his dad's death). Olver is killed, Mat is mortally wounded. Birgitte, Avi and Egwene take him back to Tar Valon for healing. (I say Birgitte because Elayne probably shouldn't Skim while pregnant; Egwene because she also 'sees beyond', and has already Skimmed on a barge (ACoS12) ) They arrive in the middle of the Seanchan attack. Tuon sees Mat nearly dead, channels, and bonds him as her warder to save his life.

 

Well, I like it, anyway..

[Negawonka]

Hmm I am not sure I can see that being tied to Mat in any way (other than the world not being done with battle). Every person and group mentioned seems pretty clear cut to me.

[FarShainMael]

Well, the three women on a boat taking a wounded hero to Avalon for healing is very Arthurian:

 

http://www.musicmtn.demon.co.uk/book.html

http://www.caerleon.net/history/arthur/page2.htm

 

And also, Arthur was known as 'duke of battles':

 

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/arthur/kageneral.html

[Negawonka]

Yes but Arthur isn't known for being a famous general as much as he is for his other exploits. Rand/LT is also an excellent general himself (probably somewhere between Mat and Perrin in skill), but that isn't really that big a part of who he is as a character - same as it isn't that big of a part of the Arthur legends.

[FarShainMael]

Neither Rand nor Mat (nor Artur Hawkwing!) is a carbon-copy of King Arthur. I feel that Mat is a better embodiment of the 'warlord' aspect of Arthur than Rand is (who has said he 'is not to fight this war'). Moreover, Mat is specifically described by the 'finns as 'son of battles'.

 

That's just my take on it.

[Aagaard]

Staying on Mat I've figured out how the Dragons Peace could be achieved and why it will not include the Aiel:

 

Basically, Mat shows up at the field of merrilor and ask everybody he has saved not to fight each other

[stefor]

Quite a few well thought out guesses, been fun reading them all.

 

His blood on the rocks.. might mean that Luc will die there, but part of the answer given Rand on how to live beyond the last battle was "To live you must die" so I suspect Rand will be the one bleeding on the rocks. "The North and the east must be as one, the south and the west must be as one, the two must be as one." sounds to me like it's been 2/3 parts complete with the Seanchan holding Tarabon/Amadicia/Murandy and probably Altara/Ghealdan by now. Rand with friends and allies hold Andor/Cairhien/Illian/Tear and the borderlands and the Waste.

 

The two that must be as one I suspect is the Black/White Towers as a few people already pointed out, but this could as easily be an alliance with the Seanchan.

 

Hopefully we'll see Egwene cast down a bit and become more humble, hopefully Rand will humble her before the assembled armies as he breaks all Aes Sedai free of the three oaths, declaring that a rod of dominion(the oath rod) isn't too be used over long periods of time as it causes permanent damage to the person bound by it, more damage for every oath sworn on it.

 

Mat needs to be in 4 places at once it seems, I feel he needs to be with Rand during the meeting at the field of Merrilor, aswell as collecting the horn of valere from the white tower, he will also have to help the band defend the Dragons from the shadowspawn, and last but not least meet up with Fortuona. All before the last battle. How long was the journey into the tower for them? Is it a new day already or is it the same one? If it's the next day, that would be on the day of the meeting between Rand and Egwene, and will Grady provide his gateway for them before the meeting starts?

 

Perrin needs to investigate the BT, he's probably doing this during the epilogue of Towers of Midnight while Rand dreams about Lanfear. Other than that he's already done before the field of Merrilor part.

 

Rand is more or less done, he might have to go to BT before setting off to Shayol Ghul and restore order.

 

I think all of the Black Ajah and Taims loyal channelers will be the dreadlords fighting alongside the shadowspawn in the last battle, I don't think there's more forsaken hidden in the black tower. Taim might be a new forsaken if he lives through the last battle tho.

 

Demandred I think has control over armies we've yet to see. The people from Shara I would guess.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think anti-mater might be involved as well.... (current events, anyone...?)

 

Good heavens, this thread is back? Who or even how would anti-mater be involved. Everybody LOVES Cars both I and II. And most probably love Mater most of all. ;-)

 

OK, done being mean about speeling and tipos. ( anybody care to guess why almost every post of mine has been edited? Usually at least three times. )

[Bob T Dwarf]

Hopefully we'll see Egwene cast down a bit and become more humble, hopefully Rand will humble her before the assembled armies as he breaks all Aes Sedai free of the three oaths, declaring that a rod of dominion(the oath rod) isn't too be used over long periods of time as it causes permanent damage to the person bound by it, more damage for every oath sworn on it.

 

Mat needs to be in 4 places at once it seems, I feel he needs to be with Rand during the meeting at the field of Merrilor, aswell as collecting the horn of valere from the white tower, he will also have to help the band defend the Dragons from the shadowspawn, and last but not least meet up with Fortuona. All before the last battle. How long was the journey into the tower for them? Is it a new day already or is it the same one? If it's the next day, that would be on the day of the meeting between Rand and Egwene, and will Grady provide his gateway for them before the meeting starts?

 

Perrin needs to investigate the BT, he's probably doing this during the epilogue of Towers of Midnight while Rand dreams about Lanfear. Other than that he's already done before the field of Merrilor part.

 

Rand is more or less done, he might have to go to BT before setting off to Shayol Ghul and restore order.

 

I think all of the Black Ajah and Taims loyal channelers will be the dreadlords fighting alongside the shadowspawn in the last battle, I don't think there's more forsaken hidden in the black tower. Taim might be a new forsaken if he lives through the last battle tho.

 

Demandred I think has control over armies we've yet to see. The people from Shara I would guess.

 

One small correction the Rods of Dominion were political offices during the Age of Legends. What the current Aes Sedai call the Oath Rod was what was known as a "binder" during the AoL, and was used only on criminals to keep them from re-committing their offense(s).

[nosy_wiz]

What i think would happen....

almost same as hopefire's..

• 
   
  
• What are those red veiled Aiels.
  
• Logain and other Ashaman fight Taim and take control of Black Tower.
  
• Mat, Thom and Moraine come to Camelyn, to find the city beseiged and help save the city with some help from the black tower and logain.
  
• mat goes to White tower to get the Horn of Valyre, just as Seachan attack, stopping them from leashing Aes Sedai. He argues with Tuon, and takes her with him to the Fields, where everyone are gathered.
  
• Rand argues with Egwene and others.
  
• Rand's uniting with Moraine, Galad (His half-brother) and others.
  
• Rand's proposal on how to attack and seal the Dark One.
  
• Rand being drawn into the trap laid by Dark One, through Lanfear (Shaidar Haran tells grendal that the work has been given to another)
  
• War begins with everyone there.
  
• Rand goes with Alvia, Elayne, Aviendha, Min, Moraine and few others.
  
• Perrin, Mat, Bashere, logain, Egwene lead the others to the fight with the trollocs and other armies of night.
  
• Perrin fight with Isam/Luc
  
• Mat Vs Shaidar Haran
  
• Logain Vs Demandred.
  
• Grendal, Lanfear, and Mohedien VS Egwene, Elayne, Aviendha,
  
• Rand Vs Moridin
  
• Nyaneve, Aliva link with Rand.
  
• Rand makes Elayne, Min and Aviendha into a single person..
  
• Rand Breaks prison seals.
  
• Fain comes.
  
• Rand and moridin fight and fain attacks at rand. Rand pushes Moridin into his body, thereby leading to his death.
  
• He uses True Power to seal the Dark One, and Fain also gets Trapped inside.
  
• Aliva helps in Killing Moridin trapped in Rand's Body.
  
• Rand and others come out with victory.
  
• Heavy loses. Many main characters die. Cadsuane, Lan. . . ..
   
  

[Bob T Dwarf]

I don't see Rand spelling out his exact Battle Plan. Too many spies for the Dark around him. By now he should have figured that out.

 

He spelled out his plan to attack Rahvin to a select few. Aviendha told Amys and by morning Moghedien knew.

He spelled out his plan to cleanse Saidin to Min and Rhuarc, and very shortly thereafter Cyndane knew.

One of these things is too much like the other.

 

Amys is one of Rhuarcs wives. His whole Sept or Clan or however it breaks down is highly suspect, and Rand should have figured that out by now. And he should have learned not to be such a blabbermouth by now.

 

If he hasn't AMoL is going to be even messier than I already anticipate it will be.

[mauifranko78]

I've always put the high number of channellers in the Two Rivers, both male and female, down to the Blood of Manetheren manifesting itself and it is manifesting itself strongly during the time of the books because of three taveren growing up there.

That, and inbreeding. Which is presumably why Two Rivers cats all have six toes.

 

Interesting that no stories of male channelers emerge from the Two Rivers after Manetheren's fall. Assuming women like Nynaeve are "somewhat more common" in women's circle over the past thousand years. Really able to read the weather, etc. without dying from using the power without guidance. Seems like a "false" dragon or appearances of Red Ajah would be common with so many female channelers born with the ability manifesting itself. Seems like an equal number of men would be born with the ability manifesting itself. But the impression we get from everyone in the Two Rivers is that has not happened there. At least they don't seem to have stories worthy of mentioning of men channeling.

 

I understand, Taim finds a bunch of men there who can be taught. But I am talking about the ones like Nynaeve who are doing it unknowingly at first.

 

Does having a channeling mother not enough to pass channeling to a son??

[FarShainMael]

Good question. Not even Rand has asked himself that!

 

The Aiel men channellers go to the Blight to die fighting. Perhaps the Two Rivers had some similar arrangement for quietly 'disposing of' male sparkers. When I say 'disposing' I'm using the term in a very general sense indeed.. It might be that male sparkers are killed, commit suicide, or just quietly leave before they go mad and hurt their loved ones. Everyone - or at least, the Village Council and the Women's Circle - knows that happens, but no-one mentions it out loud. Question is, if they leave, where do they go..

[FarShainMael]

I just can't see something like this fitting the prophecy satisfactorily. IMO, neither option would qualify as "twice dawns the day". Perhaps I'm being too literal but so far I can only think of two options that would really fit it:

1. a physically impossible event like the sun actually going back and then rising again (this can be quite safely discounted, I'm sure) or

2. the prophecy simply speaks of two different days on which Rand's blood will be shed.

 

I agree. The sun returning from behind a cloud no matter how dark does not construe being a 'dawn'. Nor can I see a way to balefire anything so that the Sun dawn's twice. (What would you balefire to do this?) If you are going to use poetic license to extend to other dawn type stuff, then it is much easier to use poetic license to mean two different days.

 

On the other hand, since Shayol Ghul is probably within the artic circle the Sun may be low enough to 'dawn' twice if there are tall mountains nearby, which there are at Shayol Ghul. It would be quite fitting if Rand's blood was shed on the slopes of Shoyol Ghul as the Sun goes behind it and have Rand's final victory as the Sun dawn's again on the other side of Shayol Ghul.

 

We've twice seen time being recycled; by Padan Fain!

Once was in TGH10, the room full of flies.

 

t’s just a door. What are you afraid of? He wished he did not feel as if there was something waiting on the other side. He pushed it open.

 

Inside was a tidy room. Or had been. The table was set for a meal, ladder-back chairs gathered around, some plates already served. A few flies buzzed above bowls of turnips and peas, and more crawled on a cold roast sitting in its own congealed grease. There was a slice half carved from the roast, the fork still standing stuck in the meat and the carving knife lying partway in the platter as if dropped. Rand stepped inside.

 

Blink.

 

A smiling, bald-headed man in rough clothes laid a slice of meat on a plate held by a woman with a worn face. She was smiling, too, though. She added peas and turnips to the plate and passed it to one of the children lining the table. There were half a dozen children, boys and girls, from nearly grown down to barely tall enough to look over the table. The woman said something, and the girl taking the plate from her laughed. The man started to cut another slice.

 

Suddenly another girl screamed, pointing at the door to the street. The man dropped the carving knife and whirled, then he screamed, too, face tight with horror, and snatched up a child. The woman grabbed another, and motioned desperately to the others, her mouth working frantically, silently. They all scrabbled toward a door in the back of the room.

 

That door burst open, and—

 

Blink.

 

Rand could not move. The flies buzzing over the table sounded louder. His breath made a cloud in front of his mouth.

 

Blink.

 

A smiling, bald-headed man in rough clothes laid a slice of meat on a plate held by a woman with a worn face. She was smiling, too, though. She added peas and turnips to the plate and passed it to one of the children lining the table. There were half a dozen children, boys and girls, from nearly grown down to barely tall enough to look over the table. The woman said something, and the girl taking the plate from her laughed. The man started to cut another slice.

 

Suddenly another girl screamed, pointing at the door to the street. The man dropped the carving knife and whirled, then he screamed, too, face tight with horror, and snatched up a child. The woman grabbed another, and motioned desperately to the others, her mouth working frantically, silently. They all scrabbled toward the door in the back of the room.

 

That door burst open, and—

 

Blink.

 

The second is in WH33, when Rand finds Gedwyn and Torval dead (by the symptoms, from Fain's dagger), then sees them climbing the stairs, very much alive!

 

So it will not surprise me to see Fain playing games with time during TG.

[FarShainMael]

I'm also waiting to see Galad and Gawyn going one-on-one..

 

Well it's like this. There's the dream Egwene had of Galad 'wrapping himself in white as though putting on his own shroud' (TSR11). The makes me wonder if, by joining the Whitecloaks, Galad has set in train a sequence of events that will lead to his death because he's a WC.

 

Gawyn now knows that his mother is alive - they've met at the FoM. No doubt he'll be full of questions about what really happened to her. At some point, Morgase may let slip that Valda (LCC of the WC) raped her. Gawyn goes mental. He rounds on Galad : "You're one of them!" Before Galad can tell Gawyn he killed Valda and avenged Morgase, Gawyn has his sword out, and a fight starts..

[gloweye]

And a fight starts...

 

...only for galad to disarm gawein without killing him. He is better than Gawein, remember?

[FarShainMael]

When they were last together, yes. Both have seen serious combat since, and if they hadn't improved they would be dead.

 

In TGS13 Gawyn practices swords with Marlesh and Sleete together and beats both - and Sleete has been known to best Lan on occasion.

 

Galad only just manages to off Valda in KoD Prologue.

 

We haven't yet seen the brothers measure themselves against each other.

[SuperFade]

Word of God says Galad is better than Gawyn. This debate has been done to death recently on the main forum.

[gloweye]

Brandon said so.

[FarShainMael]

Word of God says Galad is better than Gawyn. This debate has been done to death recently on the main forum.

 

Fine. Can you provide a link so I can catch up?

[gloweye]

Im at my mobile now, so i can't make a link. check Terez's intervieuw compilation at theoery land. i believe gawein has his own doc.

[FarShainMael]

https://docs.google.com/View?docID=dcjspjqg_99hfk37bm9&revision=_latest

 

sleepinghour on Twitter 8 November 2010

Who is the best swordsman in WoT right now? Lan, Galad, or Gawyn?

Brandon

Lan. Then Galad. Then Gawyn. Gawyn is luckier than he thinks he is.

 

So if they do go one-on-one, Gawyn will need a little luck. Then again, since BS said that, Gawyn has beaten three Bloodknives.

 

Yes, there's plenty of discussion on the boards about blademaster ranking; plenty about Gawyn/Rand swordfights, or Galad/Lan, or Gawyn/Lan; but I've found nothing on the boards about my primary point - will there be a battle between Galad and Gawyn? That's the link I'm looking for.

[SuperFade]

So if they do go one-on-one, Gawyn will need a little luck. Then again, since BS said that, Gawyn has beaten three Bloodknives.

 

Towers of Midnight was released on the 2nd of November 2010. The Twitter reply was posted on the 8th. Brandon is refering to the Bloodknife fight when he states that Gawyn is luckier than he knows.