Discuss The Prophecies

[Vermillion]

"Mat throwing dice with blood streaming down his face, the wide brim of his hat pulled low so she could not see his wound, while Thom Merrilin put his hand into a fire to draw out the small blue stone that now dangled on Moiraine's forehead."

 

I think this one took place in ToG!

[Yehosh]

"Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring

fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

 

I wrote this in another thread, but I think the Broken Wolf is Slayer, and here is why:

 

1) Luc wears a wolf's-head buckle on his belt in TSR

 

2) Slayer appeared in the previous Dark Prophecy in TGH: "

 

Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom. Isam waited in the high passes. The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill. One did live, and one did die, but both are."

 

Clearly he is prophecy worthy, unlike Bashere for example (IMO)

 

3) Death with a capital D can mean Moridin, Slayer's employer (who loans him to Graendal). As the previous prophecy from TGH mentions, Luc or Isam died and lived. So Slayer has known Death both literally and figuratively.

 

4) Midnight Towers can be related to the Seven Towers in Malkier to which Isam has a connection to.

 

5) What if people witnessed Isam being destroyed? they would confuse him with Lan and I bet that would shake their hearts until they realized it was Isam dying.

[Randommer]

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that the Broken Wolf is Bashere. I'm sure these arguments have already been made a few times, but I'm going to repeat them anyway...

 

1. The combination of the Broken Crown being a Saldean thing and Bashere's sigil being a wolf just seems too coincidental.

 

2. 'Shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers' could be a metaphor for turning to the shadow as easily as for dying, particularly since we see the thirteen towers as a metaphor for the Forsaken in Egwenes's dream (or that's what it seems like). And we still don't know the whole deal behind the actual Midnight Towers in Seanchan. Also, later it says 'his destruction', not 'his death'.

 

3. Combine this with the viewing Min had about there being dark images around Bashere, and warning Rand that something very bad would happen if he turned against him or died, and I think it might explain the 'shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men' part, although we don't know why yet.

 

Granted, I can't explain the 'whom Death has known' part, but still.

 

 

 

Also I hope that 'the Fallen Blacksmith's pride' isn't Faile. That death scene would be really sad to read since Perrin's already lost his family and all.

[babuada]

The Prophesies of the Shadow were written by the Dark One, the Father of Lies. He writes prophesies in order to trick Moridin and his Chosen into believing that they can actually beat the will of the Pattern. I believe this particular prophecy is a summary of what the Dark One sought and failed to accomplish in The Towers of Midnight. The first stanza sets the scene: the seals are weak, the lands are slowly turning into blight, everyone is looking north to and preparing for the Dark One. The second stanza describes the three ta'varen: Mat traveled the halls of mourning (after reading of the wailing faces that escaped the blood-steam of the snakes and foxes when they died, sounds like an apt description to me), Rand is about to break the seals but hasn't yet, hence "lifts his hand," and the last days of Perrin's pride shall come. This means it has not happened yet, and pride, meaning "pack," could mean that the wolves will not be connected to man in the coming age and these are their "last days" of doing so. That's when the lies begin.

 

It is clear that he is lying from reading the final stanza in which the Dark One describes his return. There aren't many ways to interpret "And then shall the Lord of the Evening come. And He Shall take our eyes for our souls shall bow before him...and He shall take our lips for only Him will we praise." It basically means the Dark One is going to get out and make everyone succumb to his will, and we all know that isn't going to happen. So I believe that the Dark One reveals part of his plan, his failure, and the fact that his prophesies contain lies when he describes Ituralde as the Broken wolf. Unlike Lan, who only moves like a wolf, a way I remember other warders being described such as Gawyn, Rodel Ituralde is known simply as "the Wolf." It was the Dark ones goal to brake Ituralde at Maradon. Here's the line in question:

 

"Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself."

 

Of all the nations, Rand's greatest failure has been in Arad Doman. He left everyone to starve earlier, he believes Graendal killed King Almadar, and he promised Ituralde he would save Arad Doman if Ituralde helped defend Saldaea. In The Gathering Storm Moridin's goal was to sacrifice Semirhage in order to force Rand to use the True Power and save Min. This laid the seed of darkness which Moridin tries to nurture in Towers of Midnight. By ordering the chosen to "injure him" and "to bring him anguish," Moridin hopes that Rand will be so overcome with guilt that he does not notice as he becomes a twisted object of the Shadow. The Dark One seeks to do this at Marradon, and fortunately Rand realizes it in time. After saving the city and turning back the trollocs, Rand describes the Dark One's true intentions and the true nature of the battle:

 

Rand: "In Maradon, I saw what had been done to men who followed me. I saw light in them, Min. Defying the Dark One no matter the length of his shadow. We will live, that defiance said. We will love and we will hope. And I saw him trying so hard to destroy that. He knows that if he could break them, it would mean something. Something much more than Maradon. Breaking the spirit of men...he thirsts for that. He struck far harder than he otherwise would have because he wanted to break my spirit." The Dark One thought if he could break the wolf he could shake Rand's will. We win again Shai'tan.

I think you are right. Does anybody remember the other dark prophecy Mori used for Perin's death recently?

[Kahlika]

The Prophesies of the Shadow were written by the Dark One, the Father of Lies. He writes prophesies in order to trick Moridin and his Chosen into believing that they can actually beat the will of the Pattern. I believe this particular prophecy is a summary of what the Dark One sought and failed to accomplish in The Towers of Midnight.

 

The prophecies weren't written by the Dark One. Moridin states to Graendal that they were Foretold by people who, after Fortelling, were then isolated and held alone, so nobody else would find out the contents of their Fortellings. He uses the capital F in Fortelling, which implies he refers to something like the Talent of Fortelling, which is considered to be a type of reading the pattern.

 

It hasn't happened yet.

 

and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him Who Will Destroy

 

While people can argue all they want over the rest that part is very clear. And it hasn't happened yet. It hasn't even nearly maybe happened if you stretch the words a bunch. He's set a date for it even and that's in the future.

 

I wrote this in another thread, but I think the Broken Wolf is Slayer, and here is why:

 

1) Luc wears a wolf's-head buckle on his belt in TSR

 

That's not really a strong link that would alow him to be described as a wolf, you dismiss other people who meet this criteria (Bashere carries a weapon with a wolf head on it), yet you're happy to apply it to prove it's who you want it to be? He kills wolves, he isn't one himself, he has no connection that would allow him to be described as a wolf.

 

2) Slayer appeared in the previous Dark Prophecy

 

So did Lanfear. Appearing in one Prophecy doesn't mean you have to appear in another.

 

If you're going to argue it on the structure of the Prophecy then explain why the Broken Wolf is mentioned in context with the Light people named in the Prophecy if the Wolf is of the Dark.

 

Clearly he is prophecy worthy, unlike Bashere for example (IMO)

 

Yeah, that guy's just one of the Great Captains who is a leader of the armed forces of the Light. He's not important at all.

 

Not saying I think it's him, just pointing out that he's not exactly insignificant and you're making a pretty huge value judgement there.

 

5) What if people witnessed Isam being destroyed? they would confuse him with Lan and I bet that would shake their hearts until they realized it was Isam dying.

 

That makes no sense at all and is just massively reaching. By applying that kind of logic to the problem I'm pretty sure I could 'prove' any named character in the books is the Broken Wolf.

 

Nobody knows Slayer, his destruction won't bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men.

[babuada]

It hasn't happened yet.

 

and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him Who Will Destroy

 

While people can argue all they want over the rest that part is very clear. And it hasn't happened yet. It hasn't even nearly maybe happened if you stretch the words a bunch. He's set a date for it even and that's in the future.

From your argument it looks like it definitely has happened already. Because he has already set a date it figuratively means he has lifted his hand. Note that the prophecy does not say that it will happen after he breaks the seal.

So, IMO the wolf is Ituralde, and this prophecy referred to Maradon. The DO tried and failed.

[General Cauthon]

The Broken Wolf=Jain Farstrider

 

1: Jain were Compelled by Ishamael(Death) a long time ago, he healed when entering a Stedding, where he told the Ogiers that Ba'alzamon planned to blind the Eye of the World.

 

2: His interaction with Ishamael left him broken, he took a new name, only admitting to be Jain at the time of his death.

 

3: He died in the Midnight Towers, which obviously are the three towers in the domain of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn.

 

Any thoughts?

[babuada]

Couple of thoughts.

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

IMO it is Yea and not Broken Wolf to bring fear and sorrow. This Yea could be He, i.e, Fallen Blacksmith aka Perin. I think there is an impending attack on FoM or The group at FoM would try to defend against some attack somewhere else. Anyway, Perin's life is in danger along with Broken Wolf.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Couple of thoughts.

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

IMO it is Yea and not Broken Wolf to bring fear and sorrow. This Yea could be He, i.e, Fallen Blacksmith aka Perin. I think there is an impending attack on FoM or The group at FoM would try to defend against some attack somewhere else. Anyway, Perin's life is in danger along with Broken Wolf.

 

Yea means yes, it is an emphasizing word like "lo" or "hark". There is literally zero chance of this being another character. This is like looking at the words "Perrin talked to Faile. Then he wondered why she smelled contented." and theorizing that "he" is the name of a new character.

[Astus]

The Broken Wolf=Jain Farstrider

 

1: Jain were Compelled by Ishamael(Death) a long time ago, he healed when entering a Stedding, where he told the Ogiers that Ba'alzamon planned to blind the Eye of the World.

 

2: His interaction with Ishamael left him broken, he took a new name, only admitting to be Jain at the time of his death.

 

3: He died in the Midnight Towers, which obviously are the three towers in the domain of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn.

 

Any thoughts?

How would his death 'shake the will of men'? Maybe in his heyday but I don't think by the time of his death.

[Kahlika]

The Broken Wolf=Jain Farstrider

 

1: Jain were Compelled by Ishamael(Death) a long time ago, he healed when entering a Stedding, where he told the Ogiers that Ba'alzamon planned to blind the Eye of the World.

 

2: His interaction with Ishamael left him broken, he took a new name, only admitting to be Jain at the time of his death.

 

3: He died in the Midnight Towers, which obviously are the three towers in the domain of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn.

 

Any thoughts?

 

He has absolutely no link to wolves whatsoever. Everyone thought he was dead already so his death did not bring fear and sorrow or shake the will of men.

 

There are numerous posibilities for the towers, although it is towers plural and the ToG is a sigular. Egwene's dream links the Forsaken to the Towers, the Glossary specifies the Towers refers to the Seanchan.

 

Also, since you clearly haven't bothered reading any of the previous posts, Taim is not Demandred.

 

It hasn't happened yet.

 

and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him Who Will Destroy

 

While people can argue all they want over the rest that part is very clear. And it hasn't happened yet. It hasn't even nearly maybe happened if you stretch the words a bunch. He's set a date for it even and that's in the future.

From your argument it looks like it definitely has happened already. Because he has already set a date it figuratively means he has lifted his hand. Note that the prophecy does not say that it will happen after he breaks the seal.

So, IMO the wolf is Ituralde, and this prophecy referred to Maradon. The DO tried and failed.

 

The date he's set to lift his hand and break the seals is in the future. He hasn't actually or metaphorically lifted his hand in any way shape or form yet. He's flat out told people when and where that's going to happen and it hasn't occured yet.

 

Couple of thoughts.

Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

IMO it is Yea and not Broken Wolf to bring fear and sorrow. This Yea could be He, i.e, Fallen Blacksmith aka Perin. I think there is an impending attack on FoM or The group at FoM would try to defend against some attack somewhere else. Anyway, Perin's life is in danger along with Broken Wolf.

 

Yea is not a person.

 

yea   /yeɪ/ Show Spelled

[yey] Show IPA

 

–adverb

1. yes (used in affirmation or assent).

2. indeed: Yea, and he did come.

3. not only this but even: a good, yea, a noble man.

–noun

4. an affirmation; an affirmative reply or vote.

5. a person who votes in the affirmative.

[Ryamano]

I don't know if that's 100% true. For example, we have the firefly v. darkness viewing which isn't really about the future but is more of sign of the war against the Shadow. I think that the seven towers are the towers of Malkier, and the babe in the cradle with the sword is Lan himself, not his child with Nyn.

 

Nah. Min's viewing are always about the future. In order for the baby to Lan himself it would have to be a vision nearly one complete turning of the Wheel in the future. Doesn't seem likely.

 

Min's viewings are about the past as well. When she meets Birgitte in WH, she sees both her past lives (when she's younger than Gaidal Caine) and her future lives (when she's older than him).

[Yehosh]

I wrote this in another thread, but I think the Broken Wolf is Slayer, and here is why:

 

1) Luc wears a wolf's-head buckle on his belt in TSR

 

That's not really a strong link that would alow him to be described as a wolf, you dismiss other people who meet this criteria (Bashere carries a weapon with a wolf head on it), yet you're happy to apply it to prove it's who you want it to be? He kills wolves, he isn't one himself, he has no connection that would allow him to be described as a wolf.

 

2) Slayer appeared in the previous Dark Prophecy

 

So did Lanfear. Appearing in one Prophecy doesn't mean you have to appear in another.

 

If you're going to argue it on the structure of the Prophecy then explain why the Broken Wolf is mentioned in context with the Light people named in the Prophecy if the Wolf is of the Dark.

 

5) What if people witnessed Isam being destroyed? they would confuse him with Lan and I bet that would shake their hearts until they realized it was Isam dying.

 

That makes no sense at all and is just massively reaching. By applying that kind of logic to the problem I'm pretty sure I could 'prove' any named character in the books is the Broken Wolf.

 

Nobody knows Slayer, his destruction won't bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men.

 

Amazing how you twist my arguments. And relax, it's only a theory, if it's wrong it wouldn't be the first incorrect WOT theory you know. I wasn't saying this is the absolute truth.

 

I didn't say appearing in a prophecy means you have to be in another, I obviously meant that clearly Slayer is important and a key player for the shadow if he is mentioned in the same prophecy with the GLOD and Lanfear.

 

As for nobody knowing Slayer, I never said anyone did, I said everyone in the borderlands knows who Lan is and we've see a number of times in the series people see Slayer in TAR and think they saw Lan. Seeing a Lan lookalike dead will shake the hearts of many people.

 

Now I may be "Massively reaching" but every theory regarding the broken wolf is reaching to a certain extent. Bashere has a sword or whatever, and Luc has a belt, same deal. As for him being "one of the 5 great captains", that's exactly it, 5 great captains, not one, they are all important, but why focus the prophecy on just one of them?

 

I also never said Slayer was an actual wolf, it's a prophecy which often uses metaphors. Just like Rand isn't literally vermin.

[Kahlika]

Amazing how you twist my arguments. And relax, it's only a theory, if it's wrong it wouldn't be the first incorrect WOT theory you know. I wasn't saying this is the absolute truth.

 

Pointing out the logical holes in your argument is twisting it?

 

Honestly I'm just a bit sick of people repeating the same theories without bothering to come up with anything new to rebutt the holes in them. This has been gone over before in this thread, more than once, although the 'maybe people would think he's Lan if it was really dark and they were kind of squinting' part of the theory is new, so you get points there.

 

I didn't say appearing in a prophecy means you have to be in another, I obviously meant that clearly Slayer is important and a key player for the shadow if he is mentioned in the same prophecy with the GLOD and Lanfear.

 

He is a key player for the Shadow. The context of the Broken Wolf in this prophecy places the Wolf as being with the guys on the Light side.

 

As for nobody knowing Slayer, I never said anyone did, I said everyone in the borderlands knows who Lan is and we've see a number of times in the series people see Slayer in TAR and think they saw Lan. Seeing a Lan lookalike dead will shake the hearts of many people.

 

Again that's reaching, it's just based on so many assumptions, for that to happen a lot of people would have to see Slayer dead and not one of them could realise it wasn't Lan. Everything we've seen of Slayer suggests he works mainly in TAR, and acts as an assassin in the real world. He isn't someone who's seen by a lot of people, he doesn't go to places where there are a lot of people, he is unlikely to be killed in front of huge masses of people.

 

Looking like Lan at a glance isn't the same as looking so much like Lan that people wouldn't be able to tell the difference if he stood there in front of them, or if he was lying there dead. Every time he's been mistaken for Lan it's been when he's been glimpsed fleetingly, on closer inspection he has never been confused with Lan.

 

TSR - Chapter 53

 

Dark-haired Slayer looked like Lan's brother or cousin

 

They look related, not the same.

 

Now I may be "Massively reaching" but every theory regarding the broken wolf is reaching to a certain extent. Bashere has a sword or whatever, and Luc has a belt, same deal.

 

I agree. But the better theories don't require large assumptions and a character acting totally OOC to work.

 

As for him being "one of the 5 great captains", that's exactly it, 5 great captains, not one, they are all important, but why focus the prophecy on just one of them?

 

Because only one of them is going to fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers at the appropriate time? The point is that a Great Captain is a well known military leader of the people. The fall of any Great Captain could bring fear and sorrow, shake the will of his side. Losing a leader with a huge reputation does that to people. Losing an assassin of the Shadow not so much.

 

I also never said Slayer was an actual wolf, it's a prophecy which often uses metaphors. Just like Rand isn't literally vermin.

 

I never said you said he was an actual wolf...

 

I did say there is no real reason to use wolf as a descriptor for Slayer beyond his wearing a belt buckle one time, when he was acting as Lord Luc and not appearing to people as Slayer. That's pretty tenuous. He has displayed hatred for wolves where he has been in contact with them, so it seems like a very odd choice to use to describe him.

[Vorkia]

Wow, I have to say, this has been a very informative thread. I have just one question however.

 

If it is a dark prophesy, then why does it have to come true?

 

Allow me to elaborate....

 

The whole idea is for the good guys to win right? Yes, there are going to be losses, it's inevitable, but ultimately only one set of prophesies can prevail and naturally we want Team Rand to win. So I ask again, why does every single line in the dark prophesy have to come to pass?

[Kahlika]

Wow, I have to say, this has been a very informative thread. I have just one question however.

 

If it is a dark prophesy, then why does it have to come true?

 

Allow me to elaborate....

 

The whole idea is for the good guys to win right? Yes, there are going to be losses, it's inevitable, but ultimately only one set of prophesies can prevail and naturally we want Team Rand to win. So I ask again, why does every single line in the dark prophesy have to come to pass?

 

The prophecies aren't opposed, it's possible for the prophecies of the Light and the Dark to both come true. The Prophecies are glimpses of the pattern, the only way for them to not come true would be for the Dark to win and destroy the pattern they were read from (although obviously their meanings are open to interpretation and some often only become clear in hindsight).

 

The propheies come from various sources, Moridin states the Dark prophecies he has collected in a volume at the beginning of ToM were Fortellings, some of the Light prophecies are as well, some are from Min's viewings, some Egwene's Dreams, some are from sources unknown. The ones we do know the source of all come from Talents that 'see' or interpret the weave of the Pattern in some way. The way they are conveyed is influenced by the Light/Dark alignment of whoever gives them, they're putting their words and interpretations on to what they see, giving things they think is important more emphasis etc, take Elaida's Fortelling about the BT as an example of that, but they're all still glimpses of the pattern in some way.

[Zodd]

I believe we should be looking at the Broken Wolf differently. Just as with the names of the other's mentioned, it is a play on what the Shadow believes they are. We should be looking for someone who 'would' be a broken by the shadow standard, not someone who IS broken. Why would the DFs consider someone Broken. Like Perrin, who gave up his forging hammer to for the hammer of leadership, making him the "fallen blacksmith'. I know this has probably been said hundred times, it's just that some of these comments are the ridiculous extreme.

 

I still favor either Lan somewhat for this, just above Bashere. Lan, who was destroyed by the loss of Moiraine at the hand of the Shadow, failed in his oath to protect her, rejects his love of Nynaeve so he can spare her Death that he has KNOWN he will ride toward since he was old enough to understand such things. Lan is compared many, many times to a wolf throughout the series, by just about anyone who see's his eyes. He walks with a wolfs grace. The stalks like a wolf. He is now more of a lone wolf than ever before.

 

Except he's no longer alone. He has his nation riding with him to die on his land; is no longer is the lone wolf because, as he said, he may be a king without a land, but he's still a king. He's become the Crane.

 

He excepted Nynaeve's love and her bond. She is the reason he's no longer the Broken Wolf, she's Healed that with her love.

 

And he goes to fall, to be consumed by the forces under the Chosen (the Midnight Towers). Graendal AND Moridin believed that to be a reference to themselves. They just got the wrong guy. Lan's fall would indeed shake the hearts and will of men. Rands especially. From the Borderlands to Meyene, what nation doesn't know of the last blood of Malkier? The Aiel even gave him a name, One Man That Is A People.

 

But hell, I could still be very, very wrong. Jordan even said if the answer come easy, maybe you're asking the wrong question. But I don't think so.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Yehosh]

I guess there just isn't enough information right now for anything more than an intelligent guess. I still think the cap "D" in Death is important and related to Moridin somehow, but I guess we'll see in AMOL. I still feel Slayer has a role to play otherwise he'd have been killed in TOM.

[Duskfire]

I guess there just isn't enough information right now for anything more than an intelligent guess. I still think the cap "D" in Death is important and related to Moridin somehow, but I guess we'll see in AMOL. I still feel Slayer has a role to play otherwise he'd have been killed in TOM.

 

Well he will still be essential for the Final Battle apparently, so yeah he'll still need to do something.

 

Wow, I have to say, this has been a very informative thread. I have just one question however.

 

If it is a dark prophesy, then why does it have to come true?

 

Allow me to elaborate....

 

The whole idea is for the good guys to win right? Yes, there are going to be losses, it's inevitable, but ultimately only one set of prophesies can prevail and naturally we want Team Rand to win. So I ask again, why does every single line in the dark prophesy have to come to pass?

 

Its possible for both dark and light prophecies to come true. Theres nothing that really says the Dark One absolutely wins, because if that did happen the Pattern would cease to exist, and thus that cant be predicted. And we know that at leats this dark propheyc is prophetic to some extent, since it did predict Mat losing an eye, something that was unknown to everyone else except maybe Mat and Min at that point. However, who knows if the Fal Dara prophecies are real or not.

[Amish Jim]

@Mr Ares,

 

Well, no - you don't have to be nice. But you were, so that's nice. Moving on...

 

Yep, I totally buy what you're saying about the flip-flopping on AD; would be a bit ugly. But its come to represent a key moral battleground for Rand - emblematic of his changing perspectives/priorities. And I just have a feeling that the new sandal-wearing Jesus-Rand is going to find that he can't be nice to everyone all of the time - otherwise the last book is going to lack for a bit of drama. It sort of fits for me that turning AD over to the Seanchan in return for help/not burning the White Tower/whatever they're going to get up to, and betraying Ituralde, is a nice way to illustrate that, and would make the rest of the monarchs a bit wary of Rand - specifically, is he going to give their Kingdoms away too? And there's got to be a reason that the king (Alsalam?) was pulled out of the hat at the end of ToM. Just adds up for me.

 

But probably completely wrong. We shall see.

[mikedh]

Regarding Egwene's dream about the 13 towers (obviously the Forsaken): I have seen most people say that the fallen tower that rises highest is Moridin, but I think it is going to be Graendal. She's pretty obviously bottomed out at this point. She is also getting much more attention (in terms of page count) than any other forsaken at this point, Moridin included. There doesn't seem to be much of a payoff. Don't know what she would do to rise, but I think it's possible. Anybody else have this interpretation?

 

I was under the impression that her dream was about what CURRENTLY was going on, which was Moridin rising highest, and this is further proven because the amount of towers that were still standing was equivalent to the amount of Forsaken still alive.

 

Actually, your logic favors my interpretation more, I think. If you read that section, the towers all crumble, and the one that rises the tallest crumbles LAST in order. Moridin obviously hasn't had a near death experience, or made the DO angry, since the deaths of the other Forsaken, but Graendal seemingly has, due to her near escape from the balefire and DO's subsequent anger.

 

Hasn't had a near death experience? You must have forgotten that part where Rand burns a hole clean through the guy that kills him. The crumbled tower that rizes is definitely Moridin, Graendal is useless-sauce.

[General Cauthon]

The Broken Wolf=Jain Farstrider

 

1: Jain were Compelled by Ishamael(Death) a long time ago, he healed when entering a Stedding, where he told the Ogiers that Ba'alzamon planned to blind the Eye of the World.

 

2: His interaction with Ishamael left him broken, he took a new name, only admitting to be Jain at the time of his death.

 

3: He died in the Midnight Towers, which obviously are the three towers in the domain of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn.

 

Any thoughts?

 

He has absolutely no link to wolves whatsoever.

 

Only Perrin, Elyas and Noam has any links to wolves, do you belive the Broken Wolf refer to one of them? If so, how about the First Among Vermin, none of the characters are linked to vermin.

 

Everyone thought he was dead already so his death did not bring fear and sorrow or shake the will of men.

 

Not yet. But Jain Farstrider was the only "celebrity" in Randland, if people learn that he were alive, news of his recent death might lower moral.

But I admit that I find it very unlikely that his death will "shake the will of men". Unless the "men" in the prophecies refers to Mat and Thom of course.

 

There are numerous posibilities for the towers, although it is towers plural and the ToG is a sigular. Egwene's dream links the Forsaken to the Towers, the Glossary specifies the Towers refers to the Seanchan.

 

The Tower of Ghenhei is only a portal to Finnland, I was refering to the three towers in Finnland. Since the series will not visit Seanchan, I don't think those are the towers refered to in the prophecies. I still think it's obvious that Towers of Midnight refers to the towers in Finnland, it's one of the major plots in this book. That's why I expect that Midnight Towers refers to the same place.

 

I've not seen any better suggestions on this board. That Ituralde is called the Wolf, or that the symbol of Bashere's office (General of Saldaea) is a baton with a wolfhead just isn't enough!! Jain Charin is the only one who dies in this book, who could be "consumed by the Midnight Towers". Unless you believe that it hasn't happened yet,(in which case it could be anyone), I can't think of anyone else who possibly could be the Broken Wolf

 

Also, since you clearly haven't bothered reading any of the previous posts, Taim is not Demandred.

 

LOL, stop embarassing yourself, Taimandred has nothing to do with this discussion. I'm well aware of the fact that RJ confirmed that Taim were not Demandred 7-8 years ago.

[lordofsoup]

Could the broken wolf be Hopper? I remember someone had the idea that Slayer was creating Darkhounds when he killed wolves. So Hopper could have become a Darkhound, and he had already known death in the real world. There was something unusual about the arrow that killed Hopper and hit Perrin's leg. He can still feel it in the real world.

[RoyanRannedos]

The other possibility could be Bashere. He is the Wolf General, and his loss would hurt the Last Battle.

[blueeys54]

I wonder if Graendal and Moridin misunderstood that prophecy of the shadow. It doesnt actually say that Perrin (the Fallen Blacksmith) will die. Instead, it says that the last days of his pride shall come. He has healed the rift between himself and the wolves, no longer blaming them and no longer fearing the wolf inside himself...Then the prophecy goes on to say The "Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known" shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. Up to this point, Death has never known Perrin. I also do not recall him ever having been referred to as a Broken Wolf.

 

However, Hopper could fit this description very well. He was killed in the waking world (Death has known him), and when he died in the world of dreams, that could theoretically fit with the definition of being "consumed by the Midnight Towers".

 

Just a thought...

+1 Excellent deduction!

 

Hello,

 

Who do you think the "one eyed fool" and "first among vermin" is.

 

if the one eyed fool is Mat (rather obvious) so who shall he morn, Fortuna ?

 

Hard to see that when bouth of them is rather "safe" to live through the LB.

 

Who is "first among vermin", Becuase it is a prophecy from the dark side it must Rand.

 

If that is the case, do "lift his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destoy", indicate that this prophecy demand that Rand shall break the remaining seals and that Perrin is at risk if Rand do actuelly break the seals ?

 

Ronneby

 

My first impression was similar to above, that they misinterpreted the prophecy. His pride has ended. Thus the prophecy is fulfilled.

 

Yes, Mat is the one-eyed fool. That would leave Rand to be the "first among vermin". Nice how the shadow tries to insult those that will beat them.

 

The "lift his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy" to me indicated that he would break the seals as we have known for some time.

 

Slayer called Perrin the "fallen Blacksmith".

 

I don't know if we can be certain who the "broken Wolf" is supposed to be. There does not seem to be enough information, but I don't think if refers to Hopper.

 

Hello everybody, this is my first post. I definately have to agree with many of the predictions that have been discussed here. We know that the three Tavaren are the central points of most of the prophecies. With that being said, I have to bounce a couple of ideas off of all of you. This is mainly the dark prophecy concerning Perrin. I believe that he is the "fallen blacksmith". I believe that when it refers to his pride, its not a personal thing. I believe that it is his pride or pack of wolves. He lost many of the wolves that were with him in the wolf dream during the fight with Slayer. That is the end of his pride. Furthermore, I believe the broken wolf to be the man that Perrin freed from the cage with Moraines help. He was in the wolf dream, so obviosly he has met death. His human spirit was broken and only the wolf remained. So, unlike the other wolf brothers, he is broken. I might be stretching this, so maybe only time will tell.