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Yes. Tuon did it in KOD, 'A Short Path'.

Haha, I had you beat.

By seconds. And no telling who clicked the thread first. ;)

 

Plus, I referenced a Q&A to another question. For shame, Quotemistress :wink:

I referenced the book and chapter from memory. :wink:

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I must be thick, because I really didn't see Thom and Moiraine. A few times after Mat mentioned how much Thom obsessed over the letter I started catching on. But was there something I missed from the early books that pointed to the two of them?

 

I think you missed the "Robert Jordan Rules of Writing" memo:

 

 

"No (good) character in the Wheel of Time will stay single till the end of the book"

 

comes right after

 

"No matter how powerful the Forsaken are, they'll never kill anybody important."

 

Caveat: this rule may be waved in the event that the Forsaken in question will be hit with a stream of balefire powerful enough undo said killing.

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Here's my question:

 

Why is Graendal getting smashed over Mesaana? So she's drooling and crapping her daks. Big deal. Send in a Grey Man, slit her throat and the GLoD can spit her out again. Can't he?

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I must be thick, because I really didn't see Thom and Moiraine. A few times after Mat mentioned how much Thom obsessed over the letter I started catching on. But was there something I missed from the early books that pointed to the two of them?

 

I think you missed the "Robert Jordan Rules of Writing" memo:

 

 

"No (good) character in the Wheel of Time will stay single till the end of the book"

 

comes right after

 

"No matter how powerful the Forsaken are, they'll never kill anybody important."

 

Caveat: this rule may be waved in the event that the Forsaken in question will be hit with a stream of balefire powerful enough undo said killing.

 

That is priceless.

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Here's my question:

 

Why is Graendal getting smashed over Mesaana? So she's drooling and crapping her daks. Big deal. Send in a Grey Man, slit her throat and the GLoD can spit her out again. Can't he?

She failed in her mission. Mesaana is just another excuse to punish her; she could have prevented it in Tel'aran'rhiod probably. And since Cyndane's condition persists despite transmigration, I don't see why Mesaana's would be any different.

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Did RJ ever explain what the Aiel used to do with male channelers?

 

I don't remember.

Yeah:

 

Elayne did not look worried, or not about that, at any rate. "He is what he is, Egwene. A king, or a general, cannot always afford to see people. When a ruler has to do what is right for a nation, there are times when some will be hurt by what is best for the whole. Rand is a king, Egwene, even if without a nation unless you count Tear, and if he won't do anything that will hurt anyone, he will end by hurting everyone."

 

Egwene sniffed. It might make sense, but she did not have to like it. People were people, and they had to be seen as people. "There is more. Some of the Wise Ones can channel. I don't know how many, but I suspect more than a few, to some degree. From what Amys tells me, they find every last woman who has the spark born in her." No Aiel women died trying to teach themselves to channel while not even knowing what they were trying to do; there was no such thing as a wilder among the Aiel. Men who learned they could channel faced a grimmer fate; they went north, to the Great Blight and maybe beyond, to the Blasted Lands and Shayol Ghul. "Going to kill the Dark One," they called it. None survived long enough to face madness. "Aviendha is one with the spark, it turns out. She'll be very strong, I think. Amys thinks so, too."

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She failed in her mission. Mesaana is just another excuse to punish her; she could have prevented it in Tel'aran'rhiod probably.

 

I get that but I still don't see why the GLoD would be writing her off?

 

And since Cyndane's condition persists despite transmigration, I don't see why Mesaana's would be any different.

 

It depends on what the differences are between the two. If your mind has snapped will it be reformed if you're spun out again?

 

If the simple answer to that is "No, you're still a dribbling fool" then ok, that's sweet.

 

But is it anything like getting spun out by the Wheel again? Sure, in a new life you don't remember your past but the GLoD might be able to circumvent that. If it's basically a Wheel spin with circumvention (which Lanfear would indicate it isn't, I guess) then it should all be sweet.

 

I guess my point is this - if anyone has definitive proof that she'll hold her looniness then ok, let her stay in the WT and soil herself every day. But if not...what are the chances of her disappearing/dying by the beginning of AMOL and then being around for the Last Battle?

 

I'd say slim chance but is there any definitive proof otherwise?

Edited by Asha'man Handsome

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Here's my question:

 

Why is Graendal getting smashed over Mesaana? So she's drooling and crapping her daks. Big deal. Send in a Grey Man, slit her throat and the GLoD can spit her out again. Can't he?

 

Good point and certainly good food for theory on a surprise rematch in AMoL. However, I think the real point is that the DO is just really pissed off and Graendal right now. Not only did she fail to kill Perrin and thereby fail to bring any sort of mental anguish to Rand, but she also managed to botch whatever plans Mesaana and the BA had for the white tower. If not for her carelessness with the dream spike Egwene might very well be dead and the White Tower in the hands of the Shadow. Had she acted more quickly and caused Rand the mental anguish that she promised she might has pushed him over the edge and prevented he from becoming "Good Mojo Rand." So really she has cost the Shadow much more that two powerful channelers.

 

As a side note, since the Shadow is so desperate for powerful channelers I really have to wonder if we will see the third coming of Aginor before its all over. As best I remember Osan'gar was not killed by balefire so.....

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She failed in her mission. Mesaana is just another excuse to punish her; she could have prevented it in Tel'aran'rhiod probably.

 

I get that but I still don't see why the GLoD would be writing her off?

Why not? She can be Mindtrapped and put to better use.

 

But is it anything like getting spun out by the Wheel again?

All of the evidence is against it.

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Here's another question: can a sul'dam control more than one damane at the same time?

Definitely. Tuon does that with the three pesky AS (i.e. Joline, Teslyn and Edesina).

 

Haha, I felt like I was reading one of our topics here about it a year ago when I came to this section... really. I just figured there would have been a concrete solution, but I guess not.

If it interests you, Brandon confirmed that ONE of their ideas was correct. Good enough for me, the 'weave' people got their recognition, and I have mine (or at least I think I do, I need to re-listen to that scene).

 

The giveaway for the weaves was the sister-bonding scene that the WOs did to Avi-Elayne. We saw how weaves could be made to fool with sounds/ retard them, etc. In addition we saw many ter'angreal designed to do funny things with sound.

The polyjuice potion idea was also referenced a lot (getting a stand in).

 

Maybe RJ hadn't left a note on exactly how Messi did and Brandon cleverly avoided getting into a potential continuity issue by just point out possibilities and leaving it open?

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Did you ever notice that the chapter ending symbol of the snake biting its tail wrapped around the wheel looks like the outline of mickey mouse? I had to get really drunk to post this! :)

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Alright wild speculation but this has been rattling round my head all day. IF, if if if, IF Nynaeve got her hands on a sa'angreal and really wanted to heal Rand's noggin, what do you think the side-effects of the Healing would be? Would he forget his past lives, and or would he explode with magical Light jizz and strike everyone dumb with his blinding aura? Doubt that it'll happen with all the other shiz that needs doing in AMoL but wanna know what you guys think.

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Alright wild speculation but this has been rattling round my head all day. IF, if if if, IF Nynaeve got her hands on a sa'angreal and really wanted to heal Rand's noggin, what do you think the side-effects of the Healing would be? Would he forget his past lives, and or would he explode with magical Light jizz and strike everyone dumb with his blinding aura? Doubt that it'll happen with all the other shiz that needs doing in AMoL but wanna know what you guys think.

 

I feel like Rand would probably lose his past lives if that happened.. hence why she didn't even try. Yes, it looked difficult, but this is Nynaeve we're talking about... she loves difficult. So, she wasn't "allowed" (by RJ/BS) to heal his madness because it would have ruined things, imo.

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So, has anyone ever wondered how the Seanchan get all of the a'dam? The only reasonable explanation is that they have someone who is able to create ter'angreal, right?

 

I'm pretty sure that Egwene was told that some of the damane can make them when she was leashed, and that if she could do it she would be pampered.

Edited by PBest78

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I keep reading in various posts that Moridin has messed with the Seanchan prophecies, but there's never a reference quoted.

How do we know this? And where can I look it up?

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Egwene's revelation that Moghedien was caught in T'A'R with the a'dam because she let it control her, doesn't sit well with me. I mean, isn't Moghedien supposedly unsurpassed in T'A'R? One of the most skillful/experienced, at the very least? Seems to me that she made a rookie mistake then. Does this make sense to anyone else?

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Egwene's revelation that Moghedien was caught in T'A'R with the a'dam because she let it control her, doesn't sit well with me. I mean, isn't Moghedien supposedly unsurpassed in T'A'R? One of the most skillful/experienced, at the very least? Seems to me that she made a rookie mistake then. Does this make sense to anyone else?

She'd never been on either side of an a'dam and she was nailed before she could even try and use her power to change TAR.

Like all channelers, she has an over-dependence/ exaggerated respect for OP in TAR.

Perrin, Slayer, Bair, etc, actually use it better because they can't channel.

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Still, Nynaeve did sense Moghedien trying to change the Dream after she caught her, and she could easily prevent that from happening because of the a'dam, which is a small inconsistency, I agree.

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Does anyone else think that Alanna travelled with an Asha'man up north? Maybe that's where Logain is. I can see the following conversation in the next book:

 

"Logain! Where have you been?"

"Up in the Borderlands blowing up that big army of Trollocs that's running through them. Where the fuck have the rest of you been?"

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I wonder if Perrin can see Mat in his mind while the later was in the Tower of Ghenjei.

If I was Perrin and I could see while Mat was inside I would be totally thinking only about Mat, following every step he makes. I really hope someone asks Brandon about that.

And come to think about it. Grady trying every day at noon to check if Mat and co. has returned is unnecessary.

Perrin can do that with a thought every hour or so. And will Rand find out that Moraine is alive before Mat arrives to him?

I mean the only thing needed is Rand to think of Mat.

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I always assumed that it was a letter that Verin gave her. That does, however, raise the question of why Verin would bother to tell him that as opposed to something about Trollocs attacking Camelyn or the like. It also, of course, raises the question of why nobody else would have bothered to tell him about Mattin, but that question's been sitting around not being answered for a couple of years now and it doesn't look like there'll ever be an answer forthcoming, so we can just ignore it.

 

It also seems weird that nobody seemed to have taken Tiana aside and asked why she was giving the Dragon Reborn a private letter. One would think that it would raise a minor bit of curiosity - but I guess not.

 

I don't remember the descriptions, but are we sure that Tiana's letter (with Red Seal) was from Verin.

 

Is there any description of the seal and envelope that Verin gave to Mat in tGS or ToM?

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Does anyone else think that Alanna travelled with an Asha'man up north? Maybe that's where Logain is. I can see the following conversation in the next book:

 

"Logain! Where have you been?"

"Up in the Borderlands blowing up that big army of Trollocs that's running through them. Where the fuck have the rest of you been?"

Logain & Co might do the rescue act at Tarwin's Gap perhaps.

They're the only uncommitted lightside channelers as far as we can tell.

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Still, Nynaeve did sense Moghedien trying to change the Dream after she caught her, and she could easily prevent that from happening because of the a'dam, which is a small inconsistency, I agree.

 

Not inconsistent.

 

Nynaeve's belief in the a'dam was stronger than Moggy's disbelief. Ya gotta remember that Nynaeve knocked Moggy out with pretend forkroot, too.

 

Moghedien is just feeble. Accept it and move on.

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Moghedien is just feeble. Accept it and move on.

That flies in the face of everything we've been told about her proficiency in the Dream, that's all. THIS is the inconsistency, not that such things are possible in tel'aran'rhiod.

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