The Borderlanders

[1eejit]

i think its fairly clear where Damandred is now... at least for me :D could be way off..

 

Those red veiled channelers at the end were probably turned when they went to the blight 13x13 style. (assuming they were channelers which I think is a good assumption)

 

This means there is an organised system and somewhere for them to live.. a city in the blight.

 

Damandred ruling there getting ready for war makes perfect sense. Organising the channelers that attacked during the attack on that city, and the ones bringing trollocs by the portal stone, and many more for future attacks. i wonder how many they could of gathered, they would live a long time unbound by oaths. they may have more guns coming out then the light expects.

 

Doesn't tie in to well with "my rule is secure" though. That would be assumed for a Chosen taking over a city of Dreadlords/DFs at the behest of the Nae'Blis.

[Cazajay]

Cadsuane told a lie to Rand just before entering Far Madding to meet with the Borderlanders. When Rand showed Lews knowledge by asking her to prepare a gateway with the aid of her Paralis-net she claims to have never heard of a Paralis-net before acted pretty sheepish with Rand. Sermihage told her it was a Paralis-net, is this proof that Cadsuane isn't bound by the Oaths???

 

I don't think she is a DF as new Rand would spot that with his new awareness or unknown power to see Dark One's touch on a person.

[hmenick]

Cadsuane told a lie to Rand just before entering Far Madding to meet with the Borderlanders. When Rand showed Lews knowledge by asking her to prepare a gateway with the aid of her Paralis-net she claims to have never heard of a Paralis-net before acted pretty sheepish with Rand. Sermihage told her it was a Paralis-net, is this proof that Cadsuane isn't bound by the Oaths???

 

I don't think she is a DF as new Rand would spot that with his new awareness or unknown power to see Dark One's touch on a person.

 

If i remember rightly the mention of the Paralis-net was during an internal monologue, I don't think she said it out loud.

[Random Man]

Cadsuane told a lie to Rand just before entering Far Madding to meet with the Borderlanders. When Rand showed Lews knowledge by asking her to prepare a gateway with the aid of her Paralis-net she claims to have never heard of a Paralis-net before acted pretty sheepish with Rand. Sermihage told her it was a Paralis-net, is this proof that Cadsuane isn't bound by the Oaths???

 

I don't think she is a DF as new Rand would spot that with his new awareness or unknown power to see Dark One's touch on a person.

 

If i remember rightly the mention of the Paralis-net was during an internal monologue, I don't think she said it out loud.

Correct, Semirhage thought of Cadsuane as "that woman with the paralis-net in her hair" or something like that. She wasn't speaking to anyone.

[brown_hound]

Can I ask for someone who already read thru the whole book, is it certain now that Demandred had no influence or presence among Borderlanders and their "rebellion"? I know there were speculations about him hiding among them.

Certain? I hesitate to say that about anything in these books, but I feel pretty good about it.

 

I can't see how Demandred in the guise on any of the B-landers could claim to Moridin that "my rule is secure.... I gather for war"

 

 

 

Forgive me if I missed the point completely, but wasn't there a Borderlander leader completely AWOL?

 

Where's the king of Kandor?

[Elend]

Kandor has a queen, and it is Ethenielle. She was the first to strike Rand.

[brown_hound]

Kandor has a queen, and it is Ethenielle. She was the first to strike Rand.

 

 

Woops!! Thankyou!

[drewk]

I don't think the Borderlander plot was quite as bad as you all make it out to be. After all, it wasn't as if they Traveled to Far Madding then told Rand to meet them. Their journey has taken them the better part of a year, including wintering in Andor. Much has changed since then, initially they had to assume he had his armies of Aiel, Asha'man, Dragonsworn, and was completely f'ing bonkers. Zen master Rand is quite the different story, but I don't think they foresaw how long it would take to actually get to talk to him. I believe they left when the Blight was receding and Trollocs and Myrddraal hadn't been seen for quite a while up north.

 

It was badass when he said "Not even a month ago my response would have been balefire." and they're all "Pffft. That's why we met in FAR MADDING."

[Owayn The Traveller]

We need a list of new characters introduced in this book and begin tickinh them off.

[AuldGoldBeard]

I thought it was pretty clear all along that the Borderlanders plotline would be wrapped up pretty easily. There simply wasn't any motivation, much less time, for them to do much anything. There was no Forsaken ruler (Andor, Illian, Tear), no chaotic power void (Cairhien), no internal division (Aiel), and no mission to take over the world (Seanchan).

 

That was one of the few predictions I got right about this book, so I'm going to have to keep beating that drum.

[smileyman]

I don't think the Borderlander plot was quite as bad as you all make it out to be. After all, it wasn't as if they Traveled to Far Madding then told Rand to meet them. Their journey has taken them the better part of a year, including wintering in Andor. Much has changed since then, initially they had to assume he had his armies of Aiel, Asha'man, Dragonsworn, and was completely f'ing bonkers. Zen master Rand is quite the different story, but I don't think they foresaw how long it would take to actually get to talk to him. I believe they left when the Blight was receding and Trollocs and Myrddraal hadn't been seen for quite a while up north.

 

It was badass when he said "Not even a month ago my response would have been balefire." and they're all "Pffft. That's why we met in FAR MADDING."

 

Yeah but then Rand replied that Far Madding only blocked the One Power, which most of the Borderlanders entirely missed.

[JohnnyBeGood]

Curiously, it's implied that had Rand not become cool it would have been better for the Dark One to win. Makes them abandoning the Borderlands make sense.

 

I don´t think the Dark One can win without taking control of Rand or making him / getting him to destroy the World. If Rand dies the Darkone will not be able to achieve his Goal. He might be able to get an advantage for the next turning of the Wheel(or the meeting Place of Wheels), but his ultimate Goal the Destruction of the World will not be possible. Having the Dragon Reborn the "Kingfisher" perform a special action is needed to win.

This goes for both sides, the Light can achieve a stalemate or even a partial victory over the Darkone with the Dragon Reborn dead or even serving the Darkone. But only with the Dragon Reborn performing a specific task can the Darkone be sealed/killed forever(ultimate victory of the Light).

 

Until this turning of the Wheel the Darkone and the Light have only been able to achieve partial victories and stalemates. One example of such a stalemate is the World where the Darkone was able to kill all humans, but not destroy the World. The World was shown when the Rand and Lanfear used Portal Stones in Cairhien.

[smileyman]

Curiously, it's implied that had Rand not become cool it would have been better for the Dark One to win. Makes them abandoning the Borderlands make sense.

 

I don´t think the Dark One can win without taking control of Rand or making him / getting him to destroy the World. If Rand dies the Darkone will not be able to achieve his Goal. He might be able to get an advantage for the next turning of the Wheel(or the meeting Place of Wheels), but his ultimate Goal the Destruction of the World will not be possible. Having the Dragon Reborn the "Kingfisher" perform a special action is needed to win.

This goes for both sides, the Light can achieve a stalemate or even a partial victory over the Darkone with the Dragon Reborn dead or even serving the Darkone. But only with the Dragon Reborn performing a specific task can the Darkone be sealed/killed forever(ultimate victory of the Light).

 

Until this turning of the Wheel the Darkone and the Light have only been able to achieve partial victories and stalemates. One example of such a stalemate is the World where the Darkone was able to kill all humans, but not destroy the World. The World was shown when the Rand and Lanfear used Portal Stones in Cairhien.

 

I've always been amused by the apparent lack of understanding by the Forsaken of the DOs true goals. He wants to utterly destroy the Pattern and all the worlds. They, other than Moridin, want to rule the world. Their goals are incompatible, only they don't seem to realize that.

[Muad Cheade]

It was badass when he said "Not even a month ago my response would have been balefire." and they're all "Pffft. That's why we met in FAR MADDING."

 

I think Cadsuane will eventually realize he was referring to the True Power.

[Yorkie]

You'll have to humour me on a few things here as some are so far fetched even my eyes don't believe when I read what I write :D

 

The whole borderlands plot makes complete sense when you take the whole, by this I mean the strong oaths they carry, their sense of duty etc. (im using the POV's that we have of know lightsiders as my base) This makes the secret boarderlander prophecy unique. It is after all the one and only prophecy that has a fail safe, its a check to see if the DRB is who he is, cos lets face it any male channler can make the other prophecies happen. (anyone can claim they were born on dragonmount, anyone can be "placed" there.. If you see what I mean)

 

So where am I going with this, well there's two ways and both I like.

 

1) The Prophecy was a plant, a very very good plant.. Anyone Ishy for instance could have had it planted.. Knowing that the borderlanders would give up (too strong, weaken is better) the blightborder to see this prophecy fulfilled. Potentially a darksider tDRB, the end off all they stood for. Kill him and bring the end quicker, why prolong a suffering.

 

The results speak for themselves, you get a weaker blightborder in the event that the tDRB in outside of the blight boarders (which he proved to be) and knowing that the Boarderlanders would react in this way would take a sizeable force. Its at this point where a three pointed attack comes... The Gap, Caemlyn the other I dont know where but it will happen, perhaps Altara.

 

Far fetched I know, but prophecies have strange workings :)

 

 

2) Taking the prophecy and what the boarderlanders have done to fulfil that prophecy it has served two purposes in light of the gathering armies that Egwene so kindly gathered into place for Rand. It first of all brings the Borderlanders to Rand, brings them close a prophecy no one knew, corrupt to banish all doubt.

 

The second purpose is the gathering area of this force, the entire randland fighting force. Easy to direct, deploy etc... also having the added boon, if they near to Ebou Dar... Could this be seen a show of power referring the TGS where Tuon Says that this time tDRB is now against them. Could this been a place to sue to another parley, one where Mat and Rand can form the united front...

 

Well perhaps far fetched...

[Bob T Dwarf]

There are still a bunch of really big things to resolve:

 

1. Where/how is Demandred hiding?

2. What kind of accomodation will Rand reach with Tuon?

3. When will Mat meet Tuon again?

4. What kind of "help" will Rand send Lan?

5. How will Caemlyn and the dragons be saved?

6. What makes Moiraine the essential woman?

.

.

.

N. How does Rand seal up the Bore?

N+1 Does Rand survive?

 

I'd guess at least half of A Memory of Light will get used up just getting to Shayol Ghul.

[Jhirrad]

I reckon Demandred is currently in Seanchan, Travelling back and forth. Something about that scene stating the Imperial family has been wiped out and a murderer sits on the throne.

 

Also don't you think it's fishy about that Borderland secret prophecy that only one Monarch heard from a family member who happenned to be Aes Sedai the other monarchs took his word for it.

didn't one of the FS possibly Demandred I can't quite remember, wonder to himself in one of the previous books " I wonder if Al'Thor really is Lews Therin Telamon and does he remember and still hate me over the death of ___________" I'm not sure but I reckon it was that same Clerks name the Borderlander King mentioned. Coincidence?

 

The piece that you are thinking of was actually in this book, and it was Graendal.

 

TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT - DISTINCTIONS PAGE 31

Graendal concentrated harder. The Dragon Reborn, the man who had once been Lews Therin Telamon. He knew where she was. He had once hated her deeply; how much did he remember? Did he recall her murder of Yanet?

 

Demandred doesn't care what LTT thinks of him. In fact, that was a point in, I believe, Lord of Chaos, where LTT says (in Rand's head) something about Barid Bel, why are you so jealous of me? It's commented on multiple times that Demandred hates LTT with a fanatical passion. Even in this book, the Aes Sedai researching Mesaana comment that she is second in anger only to Demandred. He would never care what Rand/LTT thought of him. He just wants to kill him.

 

Honestly while I think it probably was spoken as Paitr said, I find it far more likely that it would have been something planted by Ishmael rather than it being Demandred. Rand's ability to see those tied to the Dark One now pretty much tells us that none of those rulers are Demandred.

[bronnt]

One thing that bugged me was that Lord Agelmar wasn't present on-screen with the rest of the Borderlanders. He was there before they left. I kind of expected to see him there acknowledging Rand, since they'd met before. As one of the Great Captains, he needs to have some kind of role.

[WolfDragonFox]

Another of a few plotlines that seemed too long in the making to be wrapped up so quickly...I find it interesting however that Demandred was only mentioned once or twice in this book and this happened to be one of those times though it was in reference to a fight between them that killed some random lady.

[UncleButcher1980]

Cadsuane told a lie to Rand just before entering Far Madding to meet with the Borderlanders. When Rand showed Lews knowledge by asking her to prepare a gateway with the aid of her Paralis-net she claims to have never heard of a Paralis-net before acted pretty sheepish with Rand. Sermihage told her it was a Paralis-net, is this proof that Cadsuane isn't bound by the Oaths???

 

I don't think she is a DF as new Rand would spot that with his new awareness or unknown power to see Dark One's touch on a person.

 

If i remember rightly the mention of the Paralis-net was during an internal monologue, I don't think she said it out loud.

Correct, Semirhage thought of Cadsuane as "that woman with the paralis-net in her hair" or something like that. She wasn't speaking to anyone.

 

 

No, Cazajay is right, Cadsuane says she has never heard of a Paralis-net.

[Kidicaris]

Yeah, the Aes Sedai were kind of glossed over. A bit tooo glossed over. I think that the borderlanders were a bigggggg red-herring. I liekd it.

 

Haha yes, RJ did love the taste of herring.

Cad's finding it odd that Rand wasn't the least bit concerned by 13 Aes Sedai was weird. I mean unless they were all wearing crazy ornaments in their hair I don't see what they could have done to him under the Guardians--maybe throw mud? Besides, Rand had already been to the WT and into the Hall of the Servants, thirteen little sisters isn't going to concern him.

[Kidicaris]

Curiously, it's implied that had Rand not become cool it would have been better for the Dark One to win. Makes them abandoning the Borderlands make sense.

 

I don´t think the Dark One can win without taking control of Rand or making him / getting him to destroy the World. If Rand dies the Darkone will not be able to achieve his Goal. He might be able to get an advantage for the next turning of the Wheel(or the meeting Place of Wheels), but his ultimate Goal the Destruction of the World will not be possible. Having the Dragon Reborn the "Kingfisher" perform a special action is needed to win.

This goes for both sides, the Light can achieve a stalemate or even a partial victory over the Darkone with the Dragon Reborn dead or even serving the Darkone. But only with the Dragon Reborn performing a specific task can the Darkone be sealed/killed forever(ultimate victory of the Light).

 

Until this turning of the Wheel the Darkone and the Light have only been able to achieve partial victories and stalemates. One example of such a stalemate is the World where the Darkone was able to kill all humans, but not destroy the World. The World was shown when the Rand and Lanfear used Portal Stones in Cairhien.

 

I've always been amused by the apparent lack of understanding by the Forsaken of the DOs true goals. He wants to utterly destroy the Pattern and all the worlds. They, other than Moridin, want to rule the world. Their goals are incompatible, only they don't seem to realize that.

 

There's a whole long thread about how dumb the Forsaken are.

I've always wondered how they reconciled their Master's goal to destroy EVERYTHING, with their own desire to rule the world. What world? one devoid of living things? Rule a bunch of graves? AS I said, there a whole thread down below about the intelligence and effectiveness of these people.

[AutomatedTeller]

I think they didn't get what the DO's goal is. I'm not sure how many people really understand it, to be honest. I think the Forsaken think it will be a world where they can do whatever they want - Semirhage can do endless experiments on how to replace blood, etc, etc.

[kes]

To return to the Borderlanders -

 

I am a bit disappointed in how the scene with the Borderland monarchs went, not because of the slapping which was just sort of dumb IMHO, but rather because I think the Borderlanders should have to face some consequences for failing their duties as lords. I understand the idea of the prophecy - to find if Rand had gone down the dark path and joined the DO, better he was confronted and killed now.

 

I sort of had this vision of him greeting them all and it going like this:

"Greetings King Easar, Queen Ethenielle, King Paitar and Tenobia."

Tenobia says, "Queen Tenobia"

and Rand replies "Well, to be queen you have to have a kingdom and since you abandoned yours the Trollocs have smashed it, you are nothing but a traitor to your duties."

 

Oh well, one can dream.

[Durinax]

well the kandor lord is certainly going to see his punishment soon since kandor is overrun