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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
JenniferL

Favorite Quotes/ Moments (Full spoilers)

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My memorable parts:

 

1. Rand weeping in Tam's arms.

 

2. Hopper dying again.

 

3. Perrin forging a weapon with the one power.

 

4. Rand owning the trollocs in Maradon.

 

5. Nynaeve becoming an Aes Sedai.

 

6. Mat talking about boots.

 

7. The TOG arc, sacrifices and reunion.

 

8. Aviendha's arc.

 

9. Moments with Lan and the Black Tower.

 

10. Olver losing his innocence.

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Boots. But less the speaking of the boots, and more of the amazing steward. Considering I've done things like that before, I find it hilarious.

 

Gawyn taking down the Bloodknives. Only fight scene I enjoyed more than :mat: Spartakick of the :gholam: .

 

As before, in tGS, I found tears in my eyes at a single line. "The Golden Crane flies for Tarmon Gai'don." I don't remember if it was the exact line used in this one, but it's close enough. Tears.

 

The only regret I currently have is there not being a second confrontation between Rand and Tuon. I would like to see how that would go, now that he has grown strong. Especially if Mat decides to tag along. I half expect the scene to be Mat striding into the palace, demanding to see Tuon, and Rand just following him.

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Great book, many things resolved and many, many things to talk about and anticipate...

 

In general, the coolest thing with ToM was that it contained numourous scenes where idiots, fools, boring persons, bullies and so on improved and did the right - or even awesome - thing. These scenes had a way of standing out:

 

a.] Gawyn being a badass and killing three Super Ninjas. He also stole their magic rings, after. As trophies or does he want to use them himself? Desperate times call for desperate measures...

 

b.] Bornhald killing his best friend Byar, to save a man he has hated since forever...

 

c.] That douche Perrin forging a formidable weapon aided by channelers, stopping Balefire in mid-air, raising his banner at last and so on.

 

The book, due to the massive size of it, hasn't really had time to sink in yet, so I will be back later...

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Wossname Empress Who's New Name Is Ridiculous. Damn, Tuon, do you really need to wear an "I am important" and an "I am (still) alive" sign at all times to remind people? That is more lame than I could have possibly imagined. I'm reminded of Padme's garment collection in Episode I, but vastly more tacky.

 

More WEWNNIR: oh my.. you find watching the training *and breaking* of new damane...***RELAXING***? Now look, I really, really, really wanted to like you. I really wanted to find something about you or your culture that was even remotely redeemable, solely for Mat's sake. That time is past. I will now be sincerely displeased if he fails to go completely and totally 'Son of Battles' on the whole Seanchan Empire. The fate of the Aiel in Avhienda's visions is TOO GOOD for you. Consider *this* a divorce....

 

 

I'm the same way. I tried to like her early on in the series for Mat's sake, but I just couldn't do it. She's horrible. There's nothing I like about her. Her one scene in this book just reconfirmed my opinion of her and I could taste the bile in my throat while reading it. The future vision showing the world that she's working towards (and it is the logical extension of the Seanchan Empire continuing exactly as it is now) just confirms how grotesque her character and her cause is.

 

She really just disgusts me and I hate that they have paired a character like that with a character like Mat. It is the worst match up I've ever read in any story.

Heh. Almost the same reaction here. I tried ignored most of Tuon's comments about the Damane and her general attitude and succeeded for the most part. She gained a lot of points for standing up to Darth Rand in TGS despite being an 'enemy' or as close to it. Then that comment about enjoying breaking the Damane in arrives and every one of those points she's managed to nab in my books evaporates. I know it's a product of her society and that she is a strong woman but I cannot reconcile myself to the fact that she continues to view the Damane as animals. I'm hoping she gets one of those 'doses of reality' that many characters seemed to get in TOM (Perrin, Galad, Gawyn etc.) because if not then I'm hoping she gets a bus dropped on her.

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The development of Perrin in this book was very well done, making him finally accept his new position in the world.

 

The forging of the hammer

 

The realization that Caemlyin is on fire and there is no army to speak of to defend it

 

The escape from the ToG

 

Rand apologizing for his mistakes and starting to set them right

 

The scenes depicting the downfall of the Aeil if they do not change

 

Lans last charge

 

Loial's excerpt at the start of the book (hoping to see some bad ass ogiers in the last battle)

 

Nynave being to badass for testing

 

Perrins training in the wolf dream

 

and soo many other points in the book, if feel BS writing has got stronger in this book, and now i am waiting with baited breath for the finale

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a.] Gawyn being a badass and killing three Super Ninjas. He also stole their magic rings, after. As trophies or does he want to use them himself? Desperate times call for desperate measures...

 

 

I doubt he has any intention of using the rings, even if he knew exactly how they worked, as I don't believe the Senchean told him about having to bleed on it and all, just that they gave power and corrupted the blood. More than anything I think he probably took them as trophies. Next time he finds himself in combat with a Senchean, and they see they're up against the guy who killed not one but three of their unkillable Super Ninjas... yeah, they might soil themselves.

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Just started my reread, but there is one thing that made me laugh and tear up at the same time.

 

"I caught a badger," a familiar voice said. "Want to let it go on the village green?"

 

That line brought the entire series full circle for me. Everything is in flux. It's slowly righting itself before TG. But still, the entire future of everything on the shoulders of 3 farmboys. It was fantastic! :D

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Just remembered another great one!

 

"Tell those you serve that I am no longer blind" or something like that. So glad that Rand is still a badass ^^

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Another moment. Though it happens offscreen, we can imagine what exactly the situation will be like. Joline and Teslyn, telling Egwene of Mat's command. Something tells me Egwene won't believe Mat at all, strangely. Or that she'll want him under her command, or he doesn't get the Horn at all. She's acting way too 'I know better than you, because I'm a woman and Aes Sedai' for me at the moment.

 

Oh. And did anyone but me predict Thom and Moiraine's love beginning during their encounter way back in one of the previous books, where they discuss each other's names? I don't remember what book that was, but it just seemed like it would happen to me.

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Another moment. Though it happens offscreen, we can imagine what exactly the situation will be like. Joline and Teslyn, telling Egwene of Mat's command. Something tells me Egwene won't believe Mat at all, strangely. Or that she'll want him under her command, or he doesn't get the Horn at all. She's acting way too 'I know better than you, because I'm a woman and Aes Sedai' for me at the moment.

 

Oh. And did anyone but me predict Thom and Moiraine's love beginning during their encounter way back in one of the previous books, where they discuss each other's names? I don't remember what book that was, but it just seemed like it would happen to me.

 

Must have been in The Shadow Rising (the Stone of Tear).

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followed by most dissapointing scene? Easily Thom/moiraine

it's like

I dunno. It felt like Brandon was feeling guilty about writing Mat 'wrong' in the last book, so he had to oblige and give us something we've been talking about in the threads forever, sorry i burnt your meat loaf, here's more potatoes

 

Also, did anyone else verbally shout out OH I SEE when Rand was in audience with tenobia and paitar, when paitar asked about the girl from the age of legends

 

 

Do you really feel he wrote Mat wrong? Some of my favorite Mat moments come from tGS the back story for each character classic.

 

Mat was still funny in TGS but he didn't feel like RJ's Mat. It was slightly off. TofM really went back to classic, RJ Mat. I mean come on, catching badgers? That's how we are first introduced to Mat. I really enjoyed Mat this go around, especially the badger scene and when Moraine asks if Thom will marry her.

 

Mat asking if Grady had blown anything up lately was also pretty good.

 

Rand crying when he sees Tam again watered me up a tad. Not outright tears but damn close!

 

Rand and Egwene was one of my favorite scenes as well.

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Oh. And did anyone but me predict Thom and Moiraine's love beginning during their encounter way back in one of the previous books, where they discuss each other's names? I don't remember what book that was, but it just seemed like it would happen to me.

 

Ya, I think everybody predicted that. It was in book four and kind of made every slightly annoyed that we had to wait eighteen years for the next scene in that plotline. :)

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Surprised no one mentioned this yet but one of my favorite lines was Perrin explaining to the injured Gawyn why he would stay with him until the trolloc battle was over:

 

"I'm fond of the horse"

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Not even a character like Elaida deserved such cruelty and destruction of her humanity. The Seanchan are just repulsive, period. At least when the Shadow get a hold of you, you die. You don't even have to scream out for mercy.

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Some favorites:

Rand and Tam

Rand Sedai

Nyneave realizing that Aes Sedai have not really been servants to all

Avi's future vision - beautiful bit of writing

Mat's letter Elayne - cracked me up

Power forged hammer

Black Tower scenes - very creepy

Mat talking trash as they escape the ToG

So many others - great book

 

Not favorites:

Lan - He was very frustrating. His plan for his war on the Shadow was to ride into the Trollocs alone where he would be overwhelmed by a couple dozen of them? Not much of a blow to the Shadow. If you want to actually strike a meaningful blow to the Shadow gather the army that actually has a chance of making a real difference. Its not like these mean weren't planning to fight in the Last Battle anyway. Lend them your leadership, expertise, and the moral boost to actually help give them a fighting chance. One of my favorite characters but he was being just dumb about the whole situation.

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One more scene - Perrin's view of Rand's decision on Dragonmount in the wolf dream. Its too bad that these scenes had to be split between the two books. It would have been very cool to see this happening in alternating POVs from Rand and Perrin at the same time.

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Then that comment about enjoying breaking the Damane in arrives and every one of those points she's managed to nab in my books evaporates.

 

It was out of character, honestly. As was her being freaked out by Nynaeve and feeling like the animal was licking her ankle. Before TGS she was the most open-minded of the Seanchan except perhaps Egeanin, and definitely the most open-minded considering her raising and position. Now she's just like Suroth was. RJ always made a distinction between the two. She went from "The a'dam can be used to punish, though that is seldom done." to "I get off on seeing them suffer."

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It was out of character, honestly. As was her being freaked out by Nynaeve and feeling like the animal was licking her ankle. Before TGS she was the most open-minded of the Seanchan except perhaps Egeanin, and definitely the most open-minded considering her raising and position. Now she's just like Suroth was. RJ always made a distinction between the two. She went from "The a'dam can be used to punish, though that is seldom done." to "I get off on seeing them suffer."

 

I don't get how everyone says it was out of character. I found it to be totally in character for her, which is why I've always found it odd that people like this woman. The "the a'dam is seldom used to punish" comment was the one that was out of character with everything and made absolutely no sense. The a'dam has zero other purposes and the only reason that it sometimes isn't used to punish is because the woman wearing it has been punished so much that she's already totally broken because of all the punishments. Given that Tuon likes working with damane before they get to that point, punishing and torturing them is the main part of her hobby.

 

She has always been a horrible person. It seems odd to me that people are surprised by how horrible she was in this book.

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2. Mat is gone. Or rather, our Mat is gone. I don't know, I really liked the parts with Mat, as I always do, but up to KoD I liked reading Mat. Not even what he did or said, but how he was written, they were beautifully written section. Sly, witty, slapstick-y, a 'woe is me', thing, but those things weren't overdone. This Mat, he's...like if you took Mat and then made him more Mat, you exaggerated everything about him. Which Perrin actually says in the book. I don't know, I'll still read and reread those parts more than any other char's sections, but still, I can't help but be saddened that the old Mat is gone. And also, the letter I liked, the typos were just baf(Mat is not an idiot, we've seen a letter he wrote before) humour that Brandon shouldn't have done, he's trying to make Mat ha-ha funny which unfortunately he can't pull off most of the time.

 

I agree with this, even after ToM. Mat got a much better grade this time, but still fell a bit short. It's not something tangible that you can really grasp and say "this is how to do it right" either. TDR through KoD Mat was amazingly clever and marvelous. Probably impossible to capture once gone.

 

I hold out hope, however, that the last chapter of AMoL has at least one Mat PoV in it, even if it's somewhat short. If there is one, it would go far to soothe whatever ill feelings or sense of loss I've had pertaining to this.

 

I read *somewhere* a few weeks ago, where someone had complimented Brandon on the Tower of Ghenji, and his response was that he could take very little credit. So, if your hope for AMoL last chapter is because you want RJ Mat, bear in mind that you've just gotten a couple of chapters of him. If you didn't like him here, it's not that likely to be made better in AMoL.

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deadsy and Tom Sawyer, I think you misread tuon's character. She doesn't get off on the pain. She says she finds the training of damane relaxing. People that train horses don't do so because they like to beat animals. People that raise children also don't all love to punish them. That's only one part of a much bigger process. Yes, tuon's view of the world is messed up in our eyes, but she hasn't known anything else and it is seen as correct by everyone she has ever known, except her new husband. For a long time in our own history black people were seen as inferior and one that wasn't looked over by a slave master was a great threat to the world around him (read:white people nearby). The seanchan see damane as the same for much better reason (I've never known a black man to be able to cast compulsion or blow up rocks with invisible "weaves"). I always loved Tuon's ability to even talk rationally about the differences with Mat and Setalle Anan when in the real world you can't even get a democrat and republican in the same room sometimes.

 

sorry about the rant in the "i loved this" thread.

 

I just reread the prologue and Keemlin becoming a man just made me tear up for the second time.

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deadsy and Tom Sawyer, I think you misread tuon's character. She doesn't get off on the pain. She says she finds the training of damane relaxing. People that train horses don't do so because they like to beat animals. People that raise children also don't all love to punish them. That's only one part of a much bigger process. Yes, tuon's view of the world is messed up in our eyes, but she hasn't known anything else and it is seen as correct by everyone she has ever known, except her new husband.

 

Er. She said it soothed her to see damane broken. But I'm saying that's OOC from everything else we knew about her pre-TGS. Example: She felt so bad about having the damane beaten while she was on the boat that she had Anath beat her. I loved her from book 9-11, other than the damane issue, which I was/(maybe still am) certain she will change her views on.

Edited by Deadsy

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