Quick Question - Is Lan a Blademaster Bc He Killed Toram Raitin?

[drewk]

please watch the spoilers people. Thank you.

 

Did I spoil something?

 

If you are worried about spoilers for TGS, why are you even on this board? Towers of Midnight comes out in like 4 days. You got some reading to do.

[jdbond]

Quote from the book that says bond makes warder move faster (quick reflexes)...

 

Yeah, as far as I know, the bond doesn't grant heightened reflexes or a boost in raw speed. There's that "Warder grace" thing, which seems to partially bond-related, but we see something much like that in anyone who epitomizes badassery, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with reflexes anyway. The Aiel, for example. It gives one stamina (which will indirectly "enhance" reflexes, but only in that they won't dull as quickly due to fatigue), ability to go longer and function better than non-Warders without food or sleep, significant resistance to injury and infection (cf. when Lan shows up in Salidar after losing Moraine), limited sensing of Shadowspawn and some protection from being "seen" by the Shadow, and allows one to retain vitality and fighting ability even into old age.

 

 

Agreed. I guess like any book, this series is open to 50 million interpretations. People read what they wanna read (including me);)

[Sid]

Did I spoil something?

 

If you are worried about spoilers for TGS, why are you even on this board? Towers of Midnight comes out in like 4 days. You got some reading to do.

You didn't, but the one 2 posts before did, and it was in your reply as a quote as well. I'm pretty sure that hadn't happened as of the end of TGS.

[jdbond]

sorry...my bad..

[dovien]

Best regards.

 

Harsh.

[NetSlider]

Quote from the book that says bond makes warder move faster (quick reflexes)...

 

Yeah, as far as I know, the bond doesn't grant heightened reflexes or a boost in raw speed. There's that "Warder grace" thing, which seems to partially bond-related, but we see something much like that in anyone who epitomizes badassery, and it doesn't seem to have anything to do with reflexes anyway. The Aiel, for example. It gives one stamina (which will indirectly "enhance" reflexes, but only in that they won't dull as quickly due to fatigue), ability to go longer and function better than non-Warders without food or sleep, significant resistance to injury and infection (cf. when Lan shows up in Salidar after losing Moraine), limited sensing of Shadowspawn and some protection from being "seen" by the Shadow, and allows one to retain vitality and fighting ability even into old age.

 

 

Bryne saving Suan from bloodknife in tGS (durring attack on a WT). I don't have a book in front of me to quote, but it clearly says that the reason he was able to react was because of his new bond.

 

 

[didymos]

Bryne saving Suan from bloodknife in tGS (durring attack on a WT). I don't have a book in front of me to quote, but it clearly says that the reason he was able to react was because of his new bond.

 

It says three separate things together let him spot the attacker: long years of sword training, reflexes honed on the battlefield, and "bond-enhanced awareness". I.e., his reflexes are a separate thing, and the bond has given him some measure of sensory improvement. Like the stamina gain, that will indirectly aid his reflexes. In this instance, because he will notice reflex-triggering stimuli earlier than he would have before the bonding. It doesn't actually speed up the reflexes in particular or movement in general. Certainly an advantage in a fight, but just as certainly not a mild version of superspeed.

[jdbond]

^^I am pretty sure it was the bond that saved Siuan, you know the superman like reflexes that Bryne now possess!

 

 

So what exactly is this "bond-enhanced awareness"? Better hearing, sense of smell or just pattern telling you there is a threat?

 

By the way, even you have super hearing, still you won't not react fast enough. Reflexes strictly depend of signal speed from sensory organs to brain and back to your arm or leg muscle. I think what didymos is trying to say is that Warders, thanks to their "enhanced-awareness" cannot be jumped upon but in open challenge, this will not amount to much.

[NetSlider]

Bryne saving Suan from bloodknife in tGS (durring attack on a WT). I don't have a book in front of me to quote, but it clearly says that the reason he was able to react was because of his new bond.

 

It says three separate things together let him spot the attacker: long years of sword training, reflexes honed on the battlefield, and "bond-enhanced awareness". I.e., his reflexes are a separate thing, and the bond has given him some measure of sensory improvement. Like the stamina gain, that will indirectly aid his reflexes. In this instance, because he will notice reflex-triggering stimuli earlier than he would have before the bonding. It doesn't actually speed up the reflexes in particular or movement in general. Certainly an advantage in a fight, but just as certainly not a mild version of superspeed.

 

 

Thank you, you've just said what I've tried to convey - warder's bond is an advantage in a fight. Therefore, if Gawyn was bonded he would be even better. Thus my point that he could probably take on Lan (not just after bonding but even know, IMO).

[capuga]

Brandon just gave us some info on the blademaster rankings via twitter. He was asked to rank Lan, Galad, and Gawyn as swordsmen. His answer:

 

Lan, Galad, then Gawyn. He also said that Gawyn is luckier than he thinks he is. Not sure exactly what he is refering to but I'm guessing he means some of his sword victories have to do with luck rather than skill? Anyway, it was nice to get some clarification on this. Not sure where Rand ranks (pre-losing a hand) on this list but I have seen people imply that there is an RJ quote that Rand could beat Galad in a sword fight. If someone is familiar with this maybe they could post it.

[SpiritElement]

So, the list of currently known Blademasters is longer than most people would say. It includes (in no particular order):

 

Lan Mandragoran

Galad Damodred

Gawyn Trakand

Rand Al'Thor

Tam Al'Thor

Rodel Ituralde

Gareth Bryne

Sleete

 

Deceased Blademasters mentioned in the series are:

 

Hammar (killed by Gawyn)

High Lord Turak (killed by Rand)

Lieutenant-General Turan (killed by Rodel Ituralde, though not in combat)

Lord-Captain Commander Eamon Valda (killed by Galad)

Be'lal (killed by Moiraine using balefire)

Toram Riatin (killed by Lan)

Laman Damodred (it is unknown who killed him, though it is theorised it was Tam Al'Thor)

[capuga]

So, the list of currently known Blademasters is longer than most people would say. It includes (in no particular order):

 

Lan Mandragoran

Galad Damodred

Gawyn Trakand

Rand Al'Thor

Tam Al'Thor

Rodel Ituralde

Gareth Bryne

Sleete

 

Deceased Blademasters mentioned in the series are:

 

Hammar (killed by Gawyn)

High Lord Turak (killed by Rand)

Lieutenant-General Turan (killed by Rodel Ituralde, though not in combat)

Lord-Captain Commander Eamon Valda (killed by Galad)

Be'lal (killed by Moiraine using balefire)

Toram Riatin (killed by Lan)

Laman Damodred (it is unknown who killed him, though it is theorised it was Tam Al'Thor)

 

Do we know if Laman was actually a blademaster? I figured the heron-mark sword he carried was just for show - Rand had to replace the jeweled handle with boarhide before he could use it. Also, I think it is more likely that an Aiel killed Laman since they took the sword as proof of his death. Not sure we ever have confirmation of who killed him in the text though.

[dovien]

... I figured the heron-mark sword he carried was just for show - Rand had to replace the jeweled handle with boarhide before he could use it. Also, I think it is more likely that an Aiel killed Laman since they took the sword as proof of his death. ...

I agree with this.

Do people really think Tam did it? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[Arkane101]

... I figured the heron-mark sword he carried was just for show - Rand had to replace the jeweled handle with boarhide before he could use it. Also, I think it is more likely that an Aiel killed Laman since they took the sword as proof of his death. ...

I agree with this.

Do people really think Tam did it? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

yeah, considering some of the half baked, moronic things people believe lol. Firstly, why would Tam kill Laman? secondly, Tam was busy at the time, killing Rand's mum... hmmm, or at least his squad was killing Rand's mum lol. Either that or he was carrying Rand off somewhere.

[SpiritElement]

... I figured the heron-mark sword he carried was just for show - Rand had to replace the jeweled handle with boarhide before he could use it. Also, I think it is more likely that an Aiel killed Laman since they took the sword as proof of his death. ...

I agree with this.

Do people really think Tam did it? I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

yeah, considering some of the half baked, moronic things people believe lol. Firstly, why would Tam kill Laman? secondly, Tam was busy at the time, killing Rand's mum... hmmm, or at least his squad was killing Rand's mum lol. Either that or he was carrying Rand off somewhere.

 

OK, maybe Laman wasn't a blademaster, carrying an unearned heron-mark sword is the sort of thing a King would do (and I never said I believed Tam killed him, just that it was theorised...)

And I'm not certain without reading back, but I'm fairly sure Tam found Tigraine shortly before she died from giving birth to Rand?

[dovien]

And I'm not certain without reading back, but I'm fairly sure Tam found Tigraine shortly before she died from giving birth to Rand?

Yes, that sounds right.

[SpiritElement]

And I'm not certain without reading back, but I'm fairly sure Tam found Tigraine shortly before she died from giving birth to Rand?

Yes, that sounds right.

Good, wasn't 100% sure, but it would've seemed slightly out of his character to kill a woman with a child in my opinion...

[didymos]

And I'm not certain without reading back, but I'm fairly sure Tam found Tigraine shortly before she died from giving birth to Rand?

Yes, that sounds right.

 

Well, it should sound wrong:

 

"...battles are always hot. Sweat heat. Blood heat. Only death is cool. Slope of a mountain...only place didn't stink of death. Had to get away from smell of it...sight of it...heard a baby cry. Their women fight alongside men, sometimes, but why they had let her come I don't...gave birth there alone, before she died of her wounds...covered the child with her cloak, but the wind...blown the cloak away...child, blue with the cold. Should have been dead too...crying there. Crying in the snow. I couldn't just leave a child...no children of our own...always knew you wanted children. I knew you'd take it to your heart, Kari. Yes, lass. Rand is a good name. A good name."

[dovien]

Well, it should sound wrong:

That's why I said 'sounds right' rather than 'is correct' - I was too lazy to look it up.

[paetric]

At some point in EOTW or maybe TGH Lan mentions something to Rand regarding his heron. He said something about there not being enough power wrought heron marked swords to go around for all the blade masters. I'm of the opinion there are hundreds more than we know about.

 

Who was the guy Rand dueled in the rebel camp whenever Fain slashed him with mats dagger? Wasn't he a blademaster? Isn't the a reference to bryne being one?

 

Paetric

[Demiandre]

That was Toram.

 

And there are different heron marked blades. The normal ones, and the Power-wrought ones. The latter being very rare, as a lot of them disappeared during the breaking. Laman had a PWHM blade, Turak too IIRC. Justice is one too. And even Valda I believe.

 

Bryne and Ituralde I think have common blades.

 

Are Heron marked blade better weapon compared to normal blades? I don't speak of power-wrought ones, but the one made after the Breaking. Or is it just the heron showing people that the person wearing it knows what he does with his stick?

[dovien]

Are Heron marked blade better weapon compared to normal blades? I don't speak of power-wrought ones, but the one made after the Breaking. Or is it just the heron showing people that the person wearing it knows what he does with his stick?

Technically a non-power-wrought heron-mark blade is no better than any other excepting that I expect any blacksmith who would be comissioned to make a heron-marked blade is likely to be one who can do an exceptional job.

[Arkane101]

Are Heron marked blade better weapon compared to normal blades? I don't speak of power-wrought ones, but the one made after the Breaking. Or is it just the heron showing people that the person wearing it knows what he does with his stick?

Technically a non-power-wrought heron-mark blade is no better than any other excepting that I expect any blacksmith who would be comissioned to make a heron-marked blade is likely to be one who can do an exceptional job.

Also any non heron marked blade swordsman would probably feel fear and intimidation against someone with one, depending on how good they are..

[Entreri]

I certainly have no doubt whatsoever that Lan is the greatest blademaster in WoT. Lan was probably modeled after Lancelot/greatest knight of Camelot.

 

Prime Lan > Prime any other blademaster.

 

Lan the young man took out one of the top blademasters of the world at that time (possibly top 3). Keep in mind that soon after Lan became a Warder and wrecking blademaster Warders in combat. Warders = the most elite fighting force in WoT.

 

In the real world, prime fighting prowess occurs around age 30, although with exceptions (Randy Couture of the UFC at nearly age 50).

 

Lan took out a true blademaster in Toram Riatin with a minor scratch. Lan should be around 40 years of age by now.

 

 

Gawyne probably similar, one of the great knights of Camelot, Gawayne. I think he has surpassed Galad in abilities with the sword and probably only second to Lan.

[Durinax]

Are Heron marked blade better weapon compared to normal blades? I don't speak of power-wrought ones, but the one made after the Breaking. Or is it just the heron showing people that the person wearing it knows what he does with his stick?

Technically a non-power-wrought heron-mark blade is no better than any other excepting that I expect any blacksmith who would be comissioned to make a heron-marked blade is likely to be one who can do an exceptional job.

I thought it was mentioned that when a heron mark was commissioned it was by master smiths. So it would likely be slightly better than your run of the mill average joe in the armies blade