Discuss The Full Book

[parsnip2009]

I forgot to mention something else in my first post.

 

I found the Tower of Ghenjei rescue very underwhelming. I feel this because it happened to late in the novel. We have yet to have the reaction to the return of Moiraine, and i worry that this will be rushed in the final volume.

 

I would also note further to my general comments about the series, that i feel this whole arc was a big mistake. I really feel that the series has suffered without the presence of Moiraine, and perhaps more importantly, Lanfear.

[parsnip2009]

Stop whining. Jordan made an amazing world is awesome characters. Its not always about the main characters and epic endings. He made a complete world and i for one am glad coz i enjoyed every bit of it.

 

Only he didn't make a complete world. We don't really get to see inside Seanchan. We don't get to go to Shara. We don't go to the Island of Madmen. We didn't even get to meet the Amyar before they all drank the kool-aid. We've barely had a glimpse of Sea Folk society.

 

Jordan got lost in lace and frills and fluff and spankings to the point where there was neither time not space to create that complete world. We're stuck with knowing far too much about far too many trivial things and people in a fragment of a complete world.

 

That's not good writing.

 

I tend to agree with this. I also feel this is part of the reason why none of these elements were necessary to the story. We have indeed barely had a glimpse of Sea Folk society, but perhaps this is a good thing, as how many different societies and communities do we need?

[Express]

Oh Yeah, Baby, I loved this book! I couldn't read it fast enough! I thought KoD was my favorite but ToM might surpass it. I loved the pace and the eerie set up for AMoL. Random thoughts,

 

Lan, oh Lan, sort of pulling a Perrin with the whole not wanting to lead but each time he came up, was another step toward that great scene at the end. Will Rand or Nynaeve or someone else intervene? I sure hope so, Lan's always been one of my favorites.

 

Graendal, while it was nice to see she's elusive and quick thinking another Forsaken could've screwed up the 'Perrin' thing. I was satisfied with how she possibly died in tGS.

 

Rand, 'Apples' was a great chapter. He's locked and loaded! And what a quote, "You could call me, Rand Sadai." Callandor, maybe it's a weapon for killing the GLoD???

 

Egwene, very very controlling. I think RJ really new what he was doing by having her trained by the Aiel Wise One's as she's manipulative for a greater cause. I hope she opens her eyes when she meets Rand again.

 

Perrin, WOW, his arc was reading so slow yet when he removed the Dreamspike I realized that it was written perfect. It just took off. Balefire, no problem.

 

Galad, talk about being torn apart, the CoL suck. Exellent scene meeting his mom.

 

Mat, OMGoodness, his letter to Elaine was awesome. Taking care of Golam, sweet! I think my favorite scene is when he pops out behind the tree with a badger in the bag to meet Perrin. And the quote, "that's why I left my wife in another country!" ToG, I really didn't like him actually losing an eye but thought this scene was a great read.

 

Olver, I don't share everyone's, 'sadness or heartbreak'. I thought he felt bad about not doing anything to save his parents and now he thinks he's in a position to do something to help in Caemlyn and good for him. Oh, is Caemlyn toast?

 

Aviendha, I was really on edge while Nakomi(sp) was there. I felt she was dark and at first thought she was Lanfear but then realized(reading on other threads) that she would probably kill Avi in a jealous rage rather than sit there and gab on and on. I did think the scene was in TAR. I like that it could've been Jenn Aiel but like I said the lady read dark.

 

Ituralde, great great man, talk about adapting to the situation. I was awed by Rand coming to him in the final hour and just, jaw dropping to the floor, when Rand took care of the entire shadowspawn without hurting any of the light side. Reminded me of Tear and Rand using the weave with Callandor???

 

Oh, crap or blood and bloody ashes:), I've just rambled on and on! I'm so thankful that Sanderson is finishing this series. I started in '93ish and have bit the hook, line and sinker! OH, "Boot's", I've already used this teaching Sunday School:):):)!!!

[Darth Krewl]

Stop whining. Jordan made an amazing world is awesome characters. Its not always about the main characters and epic endings. He made a complete world and i for one am glad coz i enjoyed every bit of it.

 

 

Well im glad you enjoyed it.

 

Though your response is why i tend to stay away from forums like this most of the time. I am a fan. I love the wheel of time books. This does not mean however that i dont feel they can be criticised.

 

I'm not whining. I made constructive comments about why i think Towers of Midnight is not a very good book.

 

I couldn't agree more with you parsnip. I for one, just hated at least 3 or 4 books in this series, just like I loved another 3 or 4 that I just couldn't put down, no matter how long or complex they may have been.

 

Nothing is perfect and IMO, while The Gathering Storm focused on Rand (whose arc is what I'm interested in; not how many colors there are on the fringes of an Accepted's dress) and Egwene's stories, which were extremely interesting, I only find Mat's story interesting in this book. I could care less about Perrin (though I admit that it's good to see him finally grow and come to his own), Aviendha, Elayne or anyone else from House Trakand, for that matter. Still, all in all, I believe that, while not as good as TGS, Towers of Midnight is much better than some of its predecessors. I just would've liked to see more relevant plots resolved and Tarmon Gai'don come to the forefront, as many of us have been expecting to see for a long, long time.

 

Oh, and deepak, funny that you think TWoT is not about the main character(s) or an epic ending, when Rand is the quintessential archetype of the hero on an epic quest (orphan boy from humble origins, brought up by foster parents, possessing amazing powers and potential, meant to defeat a mighty foe and villain, so on and so forth). The fact that RJ decided to expand his universe and take it farther than Tolkien, Rowling or George Lucas, to name a few, doesn't mean that TWoT is not about the main character's epic quest and an equally epic ending, when that's what it's always been about.

 

And, if this is seen as whining, well there's nothing I can do about that. Just my honest opinion on the book and the series in general.

[Guest Narglives]

Not sure if anyone else said this already, as I am too lazy to read over 50 pages of thread, but...

 

There were several continuity errors in this book that I find both amusing and dissapointing.

 

Neald and Grady tell Perrin about Saidin being clean, but they already did that in KOD.

Bain and Chiad carry Gaul's weapons for him even though gai'shain are not allowed to touch weapons.

Sulin... Didn't she die at Shadar Logoth? Then in TGS she's with Rand's group. Then suddenly she's with Perrin's group? O.o

[Bob T Dwarf]

Not sure if anyone else said this already, as I am too lazy to read over 50 pages of thread, but...

 

Sulin... Didn't she die at Shadar Logoth? Then in TGS she's with Rand's group. Then suddenly she's with Perrin's group? O.o

 

That was Liah, not Sulin. Sulin spent some time wearing livery and waiting on Rand and Min. She may have even had to carry a doll around for awhile, but she hasn't died yet.

[Owayn The Traveller]

I think Sulin being with Rand in the last book or whoever she was with, was the error in continuity and it was rectified in this book.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think Sulin being with Rand in the last book or whoever she was with, was the error in continuity and it was rectified in this book.

 

It's nearly impossible to tell because the timeline is so screwy. A LOT of Perrin's arc happens before Tam ( apparently with Sulin for escort ) goes to meet Rand for the first time.

[Owayn The Traveller]

I seem to recall it being a little nag people had last year or rather they thought they were on to something but then Brandon came out and saidd it was a mistake. I could be wrong on this but hey.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Hey didn't Gawayn take those bloodknives things? Why? Does he still want to kill Rand after all?

[AutomatedTeller]

I think Gawyn thinks they are useful.

 

I'm not sure if those rings are what drain the life from the wearer or if it's something else.

[Fryn]

We learned in this book that Graendal controls Slayer (might have learned it before but it was news to me at the time) since she gave the Dreamspike to him to trap Perrin. So if Greandal was responsible for Asmodean's death, couldn't it have just been Slayer directed by her? The other 2 she was responsible for she didn't directly kill either.

 

She didnt have access to Slayer until ToM. "I will lend you another tool, the man with two souls. But he is mine, just as that spike is mine. Just as you are mine." If anything we learn that Moridin has been controlling Slayer. Moridin gave Graendel both the spike and use of slayer to kill Perrin.

 

Not sure of the repercussions from the following, but would like to get some feedback from my fellow WOTicts.

 

Thinking about the above quoted confirmation of Slayer belonging to Moridin led me to conclude we now know Halima'gar, while impersonating Moridin, was behind the Slayer attempt on Rand and Min in Far Madding. S/he thinks about wanting to kill the Dragon (Nae'blis be damned) and also on one of the other Chosen using her method of impersonating other Chosen to issue orders to tools of the DO (who's Sammy, s/he said). Seems like six and six make a dozen here....unless I'm missing the mess.

 

Any ideas on potential significance going forward? Or as an explanation for something done?

 

We already knew the Chosen could access Slayer and this adds nothing to our knowledge of the mechanics of getting it done (TAR, ter', Chez Luc/Isam???). Is the knowledge of the ploy merely a further fleshing out of the Halima'gar story? Maybe to cement the self-interest first aspect of the Chosen for something to come? But that point has been heartily affirmed, re-affirmed and terrafirmed ; >, if a reader has missed that point so far, they surely wouldn't pick up on this somewhat subtle reminder.

 

A chin-scratcher for me at this point.

 

Pretty sure at Far Madding Slayers target was Nyn and Lan not Rand.

[Rand Skywalker]

Hey didn't Gawayn take those bloodknives things? Why? Does he still want to kill Rand after all?

 

I don't know if that's it but it certainly feels like Chekov's smoking gun to me! I almost hope he uses em just to pay the consequences.

[parsnip2009]

Stop whining. Jordan made an amazing world is awesome characters. Its not always about the main characters and epic endings. He made a complete world and i for one am glad coz i enjoyed every bit of it.

 

 

Well im glad you enjoyed it.

 

Though your response is why i tend to stay away from forums like this most of the time. I am a fan. I love the wheel of time books. This does not mean however that i dont feel they can be criticised.

 

I'm not whining. I made constructive comments about why i think Towers of Midnight is not a very good book.

 

I couldn't agree more with you parsnip. I for one, just hated at least 3 or 4 books in this series, just like I loved another 3 or 4 that I just couldn't put down, no matter how long or complex they may have been.

 

Nothing is perfect and IMO, while The Gathering Storm focused on Rand (whose arc is what I'm interested in; not how many colors there are on the fringes of an Accepted's dress) and Egwene's stories, which were extremely interesting, I only find Mat's story interesting in this book. I could care less about Perrin (though I admit that it's good to see him finally grow and come to his own), Aviendha, Elayne or anyone else from House Trakand, for that matter. Still, all in all, I believe that, while not as good as TGS, Towers of Midnight is much better than some of its predecessors. I just would've liked to see more relevant plots resolved and Tarmon Gai'don come to the forefront, as many of us have been expecting to see for a long, long time.

 

Oh, and deepak, funny that you think TWoT is not about the main character(s) or an epic ending, when Rand is the quintessential archetype of the hero on an epic quest (orphan boy from humble origins, brought up by foster parents, possessing amazing powers and potential, meant to defeat a mighty foe and villain, so on and so forth). The fact that RJ decided to expand his universe and take it farther than Tolkien, Rowling or George Lucas, to name a few, doesn't mean that TWoT is not about the main character's epic quest and an equally epic ending, when that's what it's always been about.

 

And, if this is seen as whining, well there's nothing I can do about that. Just my honest opinion on the book and the series in general.

 

 

I couldnt agree more with the above statements.

 

As for Brandon Sanderson, i recently read his Mistborn series, and found the much more shrinked down world in comparison to WOT in many ways much more compelling, making for better story telling.

[PatsNats28]

Three mistakes I noticed:

 

There was a spelling mistake somewhere in the first 200 pages, forget exactly what.

Thom is spelled Tom somewhere, wanna say around pg. 250, it was at the end of a chapter at the top of a page

Towards the end, in the Egwene/Gawyn chapter, BS writes Galad instead of Gawyn.

 

How did none of the editors catch these?

[Byzantine279]

There is a thread for mistakes.

 

Errors are always missed, though this book does have an above average number of them it is still easily readable.

[Jagen Sedai]

Does anyone think that Nakomi was a DF or something, and her whole purpose was to rile up Avi enough that Avi would make the ter'angreal show her that future?

 

I would almost think that if Avi tries stopping it, maybe that is why it will actually come to happen...

 

Hey, RJ has said don't expect some sweet ending with rainbows all about, right? :P

[jwillis7]

So does anyone think that team jordan told tor when making the cover of ebook 5 that the bracelet would come back

[JosephLear76]

So, is there a lot of people that don't like the book or what? I've been reading the book and I like it a lot.

[Duskfire]

So, is there a lot of people that don't like the book or what? I've been reading the book and I like it a lot.

 

The complainers are definetly coming out of the woodwork.

[Jagen Sedai]

I think it could have been... well, shorter on Perrin and Elayne and extended in other areas. That's just me, maybe.

[masaru]

Whatever criticisms there can be made about the series as whole, even the detractors have to admit that at the end of ToM, we are in a good place for the finale. A lot hinges the resolution, obviously, but I think all of the stories in a good place for that resolution.

[KefkaPalazzo]

I forgot about it until I read Luckers's review: Does anyone else think Gawyn now has a death sentence hanging over him? He picked up a couple of the Bloodknives' rings, and was injured and bleeding when he picked them up.

 

Are his days numbered?

[Deadsy]

Oh look, Moiraine's back and she and Thom had this whole love affair that apparently we all missed.

 

Lawl. You're as blind as Mat.

[Rand Skywalker]

I forgot about it until I read Luckers's review: Does anyone else think Gawyn now has a death sentence hanging over him? He picked up a couple of the Bloodknives' rings, and was injured and bleeding when he picked them up.

 

Are his days numbered?

 

We can hope.