Will Rand Be a Badass?

[TheAngryDruid]

[Look at Jesus. Ghandi. Nelson Mandela. Marthin Luther King Jr. ... all peace-loving, noble figures.

 

But they could all kick ass when needed.

 

He's still the bloody Dragon Reborn ;)

Fish

 

When did any of those 'kick ass'?

 

I'm not looking for a social revolution here--though the Aes Sedai could use it--I'm looking for a badass to slap down the Dark One.

 

I liked that Rand's become enlightened--I just hope that he's still capable of being a warrior.

 

While I get your concern, I was VERY encouraged by Rand's change.

 

If thought all along that brute force and "kicking ass" is not the way to win the LB, and Verin intimated as much in her chat with Egwene in tGS, as did Fel in his note to Rand.

 

I think that Rand is starting to grok (to borrow a term from another classic) this now, and understand he has to be more than a badass, but a counterweight to chaos and despair.

 

It doesn't mean he can't (or won't) unleash to nasty Stone of Tear/The Stone Stands/Deathgate cool bunch of weaves on some Trollocs and Fades when he has to, just that his focus will be on healing, belief, order, and the like, as he realizes these are the keys to winning. He'll still have to play some defense while he does this to make sure the minions of the DO don't overrun Randland, but the Fisher King is strongest in defense and escape when on a white square, and Rand is definitely on a white square now.

 

I think he'll do as Egwene did in the Tower, he'll do whatever he can to foster the belief and order he needs to achieve. Kneeling to Tuon won't be a problem. Going to Far Madding to meet the Borderlands, sure. He'll do what needs to be done for the forces of the Light to believe in, trust, and work with each other. In that, he'll be a total badass. I don't anticipate any major smackdowns the way some seem to be wanting, what would be the point? A minor one (say, to Tuon for being a slave master and hypocrite, might be nice).

[Morsker]

WoT characters are distinctly non-badass with the exception of Nynaeve and Moiraine. I don't think Rand will ever rise to their level. The books always make Rand screw up horribly and need saving.

 

So I can see a good Rand that screws up and needs saving, or a good Rand that cooperates and doesn't do much. But I can't picture Rand as a badass.

[Suttree]

[Look at Jesus. Ghandi. Nelson Mandela. Marthin Luther King Jr. ... all peace-loving, noble figures.

 

But they could all kick ass when needed.

 

He's still the bloody Dragon Reborn ;)

Fish

 

When did any of those 'kick ass'?

 

I'm not looking for a social revolution here--though the Aes Sedai could use it--I'm looking for a badass to slap down the Dark One.

 

I liked that Rand's become enlightened--I just hope that he's still capable of being a warrior.

 

Bet your ass MLK Jr. could lay a smack down when needed.

[The Desert Pea]

Of course, the knee-jerk reaction here is to go "Oh crap, it's Hippie Rand. Guess no more awesome is going to come from him." And maybe in some ways we won't see anything draw dropping like in TGS. He's no longer Darth Rand, the dark figure who threatened to will the pattern to stop Cadsuane's heart or balefire an entire palace of people, resulting in a balescream.

 

However, Rand is enlightened now. It seems that he knows what he needs to do, and will do whatever a situation calls for. Does that mean balescream? Obviously not. But say he faces off against Mesanna in the tower, his list should no longer be a problem. The Light needs the Forsaken dead, so he wouldn't hesitate in ending her life, maybe even with a little balefire. He'll lay the smackdown only when necessary now, instead of 24/7.

 

There's also the fact that Rand channeled the True Power. BS said in an interview that there would still be repercussions of this in the last two books. Who's to say that this won't cause Rand to slip back into Darth Rand mode at some dire moment, or make him more accessible for an entire turn to the Shadow? Another point is that the TP is also incredibly addictive, and Rand carried the CK around with him just so he wouldn't be tempted to use it again. The CK is gone now, what's to stop him from giving in and channeling it again?

 

In short, Rand as a character is still completely up in the air. He may be a Zen Master right now, but he still has a long ways to go on a path that can only be traveled with some violence along the way. I think Rand being a badass is inevitable.

[Crael123]

I wouldn't worry about it. We only saw him talking to a commoner, in desperate need of concealment. When it's the Shadow that's to be fought, I'll bet his axe will grow a long handle, so to speak

 

Carel123, when will you learn? Blonds always have more fun, that's just the way of things. Your envy of my favorite queen is unseemly

 

aww come on your not going to tell me that Elayne's POV never bored you. it had to get to you at some point my friend!!

 

and of course she is every1's favorite queen. what other queens do we know of? Tenobia, but she always struck me as a worse version of Faile for some reason...

[Crael123]

and yeah. blondes do have more fun yoniy0. i was not born yesterday

[yoniy0]

aww come on your not going to tell me that Elayne's POV never bored you. it had to get to you at some point my friend!!

This is going off topic, but since it does tie to Rand's badass-ery in a way (just not the way Luckers meant), I'll say this much:

Okay. So I didn't like it when Nynaeve and she were bickering in Tarabon. But since she's come into her own, I really like reading her PoV's. I like the way she thinks. And what she does with those thoughts.

Plus, you know... A long-legged golden-haired 20 year old taking a bath. What's not to like there?

[aunt_pol]

AND back on topic...;)

 

Ye of little faith! I'm personally delighted with hippyRand, but hold no hope for him to spend two full books wandering the land fixin' apple trees. He's finally, truly grown up. The growing that was retarded by his inability to take down Lanfear in order to save Moiraine, and thwarted constantly since by his silly belief that he had to be hard as stone to win, has all caught up with him. He knows now why he's fighting: he really knows it in his bones, he gets it. There will be violence where appropriate, but there will be real emotional interaction with people other than Min. I keep sayin it, but I'll say it again. Rand destroying the CK was a clear sign that raw power is not gonna be the necessary criterion for defeating the DO. It will play a huge role in defeating the Shadowspawn and Dreadlords and such, but the confrontation with the DO is gonna be a whole other creature.

And it's gonna be CLASS.

[Razor]

Remember Rand is the Lord of the Morning in fact now. He should have access to LTT's arsenal of weaves. LTT is who directed the blossoms of fire and death gates. I think Rand integrated with LTT will be more at peace with himself, less doubts and self torture and more confidence because he now knows what he can do.

[DemandredFO]

It was the first chapter in a book called Towers of Midnight. I very much doubt Rand will stay a hippie, may retain his Nym powers but will go back to ass-kicking.

[KefkaPalazzo]

I think he's just still on a combination of highs from the whole "I finally get it" thing, and adrenaline from being within seconds of ending reality itself. Remember, the scene takes place mere minutes after VoG. It'll likely wear off in a day or two. He has certainly changed from the sociopathic Rand we had in TGS, though.

 

However, being a badass comes from more than pure action scenes. Fish's examples are perfect for this point. They all suffered and were forced to bend, but they wouldn't break. In TGS, he was coming close to the breaking point, becoming almost as bad as any of the forsaken. Once he has his epiphany, he gets better.

[hfel]

Don't forget Rand is still connected to Moridin. I don't think he can be a complete hippie with that bit of baggage. (I hope we see something about the effect on Moridin of the Rand/LTT integration.)

[Random Man]

Am I the only one who loved Rand as a bad-ass, edge-of-your-seat, psycho killer with a stump and tattoos?

 

Seriously though, I like the new Rand too... but he needs to keep that edge, the hint of "I MAY balefire everything in my path cuz I'm the Dragon Reborn and I can," or "I MIGHT fry my surrogate father on a balcony cuz I'm a little lost/crazy/tormented/possessed by evil."

 

I see his progression so far as a reverse Michael Douglas ala Falling Down. Hopefully Rand keeps the Uzi and Louisville Slugger close at hand.

I liked how much he terrified other people such as those who would try to manipulate him...and when he did something sublimely compassionate it would always seem to center him...and scare those people more. Those who are close to him emotionally are likely going to be pleased by his change, but as for the others...mark my words, they're going to be even more terrified of him now. Fortuona's not going to know what to make of him now.

 

[Look at Jesus. Ghandi. Nelson Mandela. Marthin Luther King Jr. ... all peace-loving, noble figures.

 

But they could all kick ass when needed.

 

He's still the bloody Dragon Reborn ;)

Fish

 

When did any of those 'kick ass'?

 

I'm not looking for a social revolution here--though the Aes Sedai could use it--I'm looking for a badass to slap down the Dark One.

 

I liked that Rand's become enlightened--I just hope that he's still capable of being a warrior.

 

Bet your ass MLK Jr. could lay a smack down when needed.

Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple of Jerusalem. That was pretty badass.

[scraps18]

Plus not having the CK isn't gonna be a big deal with that shiny sword and a coupla women to help him use it. He's got the power!

[Kaznen]

You think the first chapter is a wussed out Rand? What was he suppose to do, "You there, old man who once did my friend and I an act of kindness for no reason. I'm going to kill you now so I can prove to the world how strong I am. Then I'm going to go to Tar Valon and bitch slap my childhood sweetheart. I'm sure she'll have it coming."

[Barid Bel Medar]

You think the first chapter is a wussed out Rand? What was he suppose to do, "You there, old man who once did my friend and I an act of kindness for no reason. I'm going to kill you now so I can prove to the world how strong I am. Then I'm going to go to Tar Valon and bitch slap my childhood sweetheart. I'm sure she'll have it coming."

 

Exactly. I think everyone is overreacting. Rand is more at peace with himself, yeah, but that scene didnt require anything. He just had a major epiphany. Of course he is going to be relieved. He talked to one random farmer.

 

What was he going to do? "I am more happy now, but just so you know, I am not going to be a hippy now, Ill still be badass when I need."

 

Of course not, why would he say anything to a farmer? He would want to reassure him, just like he did. He was about to give up on life, but Rand came and gave him a reason to keep living.

 

Besides, this was from the farmers POV. Of course he would be amazed at the Dragon Reborn. It is not really a valid representation. He is pretty much a god-like figure to the common folk, they wouldnt really be able to judge his character.

[AuldGoldBeard]

I had the same concern, but think it's just authorial differences and Brandon not quite having the range to pull off what RJ intended. It was mostly the dialogue that was off. The phrase "great long time" has never occurred in WoT before, and Rand has never said "days to come." "To learn but not be overwhelmed, that is the balance," sounds like Confucius, and I can't recall any instances of a character addressing another as "friend."

 

I was fine with the action, the dialogue was the problem. Sanderson just doesn't have the same gift for it that RJ did.

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

Rand was always a "hippie." He was a peaceful farm boy who never embraced his destiny of violence and killing until he was so traumatized that he lost his power of rational judgment. And, when he did, he didn't know how to handle it. Maybe it was his ta'veren quality that pulled him back. Now that he's had his epiphany, I think he's actually become less of what some of you people call a "hippie." He's embraced his own importance and the rightness of using power when the ends are just--a lesson that every hero must discover in his or her own way before achieving true success.

 

Remember that WoT is the creation of a war veteran; RJ's ideal seems to have been the gentle giant. That's what Rand is going to be: Someone who isn't afraid of his size anymore, but isn't going to abuse it either. He'll stomp the ones who deserve stomping, and give piggy-back rides to everyone else.

 

This moment was inevitable, and way overdue. In a way I am sad, though, because it almost guarantees that Rand has become invincible and unbeatable. (Huge, huge kudos to RJ if Rand ends up getting killed in ToM, but I'm telling ya it ain't gonna happen.) This means Rand no longer has a worthy enemy, and stories where the protagonist doesn't have a worthy antagonist tend to drift. Thankfully, WoT is much bigger than just Rand's story, but I fear that Rand's confrontations will have a feeling of predetermination to them from now on.

 

So, "badass" depends on your definition. I'm pretty sure he's got a lot of killing left to do, and a lot of ruling, and a lot of preaching. If that fits your bill of "badass," then sure enough he's going to be a badass.

 

Edit: My post leaves the impression that I didn't like the scene. In fact, I loved it! I just hope that Rand isn't going to be on a messiah pedestal for the rest of the series.

[CTKShadow]

I had the same concern, but think it's just authorial differences and Brandon not quite having the range to pull off what RJ intended. It was mostly the dialogue that was off. The phrase "great long time" has never occurred in WoT before, and Rand has never said "days to come." "To learn but not be overwhelmed, that is the balance," sounds like Confucius, and I can't recall any instances of a character addressing another as "friend."

 

I was fine with the action, the dialogue was the problem. Sanderson just doesn't have the same gift for it that RJ did.

 

Well, Rand has never had an epiphany before, either. Sure, the dialogue was a little...formal...but within the context it makes perfect sense. Rand has ascended to another level, at least for the moment, and that is the sort of dialogue you would expect from someone in that state of mind.

 

So I have to politely disagree, I feel that Sanderson (or Jordan if he wrote the scene) aligned the phrasing and dialogue with Rand's temperament perfectly.

[Impressive Bosom]

Rand was always a "hippie." He was a peaceful farm boy who never embraced his destiny of violence and killing until he was so traumatized that he lost his power of rational judgment. And, when he did, he didn't know how to handle it. Maybe it was his ta'veren quality that pulled him back. Now that he's had his epiphany, I think he's actually become less of what some of you people call a "hippie." He's embraced his own importance and the rightness of using power when the ends are just--a lesson that every hero must discover in his or her own way before achieving true success.

 

Remember that WoT is the creation of a war veteran; RJ's ideal seems to have been the gentle giant. That's what Rand is going to be: Someone who isn't afraid of his size anymore, but isn't going to abuse it either. He'll stomp the ones who deserve stomping, and give piggy-back rides to everyone else.

 

This moment was inevitable, and way overdue. In a way I am sad, though, because it almost guarantees that Rand has become invincible and unbeatable. (Huge, huge kudos to RJ if Rand ends up getting killed in ToM, but I'm telling ya it ain't gonna happen.) This means Rand no longer has a worthy enemy, and stories where the protagonist doesn't have a worthy antagonist tend to drift. Thankfully, WoT is much bigger than just Rand's story, but I fear that Rand's confrontations will have a feeling of predetermination to them from now on.

 

So, "badass" depends on your definition. I'm pretty sure he's got a lot of killing left to do, and a lot of ruling, and a lot of preaching. If that fits your bill of "badass," then sure enough he's going to be a badass.

 

Edit: My post leaves the impression that I didn't like the scene. In fact, I loved it! I just hope that Rand isn't going to be on a messiah pedestal for the rest of the series.

I wouldn't say that he doesn't have a worthy foe - the Dark One is still pretty formidible and its against him that he was (re)born to defeat. I liken him right now to Maud'dib post Dune or Luke post Return of the Jedi. Probably more the former. ridiculously powerful compared to any other mortal they might meet, but still mortal and still very much with a job to do.

 

Not that it will happen, but I still hope that Rand dies at the end of ToM and the opening line of AMoL is 'There was no wind'. I actually wrote that enitre opening out dreaming it might actually occur, but I sincerely doubt it will.

[AuldGoldBeard]

Well, Rand has never had an epiphany before, either. Sure, the dialogue was a little...formal...but within the context it makes perfect sense. Rand has ascended to another level, at least for the moment, and that is the sort of dialogue you would expect from someone in that state of mind.

 

So I have to politely disagree, I feel that Sanderson (or Jordan if he wrote the scene) aligned the phrasing and dialogue with Rand's temperament perfectly.

 

He's had plenty of epiphanies before. Unless there's some mind-meld thing going on with LTT and his past lives (possible, given the last chapter of TGS), there's no reason for someone's dialogue to pull a 180 like that. He sounds like Homer after getting baptized by Flanders, not someone who's had a moving realization.

[yoniy0]

Besides, this was from the farmers POV. Of course he would be amazed at the Dragon Reborn. It is not really a valid representation.

I don't necessarily agree that he's godlike to the common folk, but I will say that I really REALLY like to see him from Egwene's PoV. The other way around wouldn't be nearly as satisfying, I think.

 

I was fine with the action, the dialogue was the problem.

Just saying, I completely disagree. As I told Brandon on Twitter, this is now one of my favorite WoT scenes, and the dialog is what makes me like it so much. The miracle was cool, but still just a prop, not the center of the scene.

[AuldGoldBeard]

Funny, I thought it was the worst dialogue of any extended scene in the entire series. (Worst line being, "These days will be legendary!!!111"). Different strokes.

[yoniy0]

Oh, I don't know about that. As a How I Met Your Mother fan, I kindda liked it

Yeah. That was bad.

[Elend]

Actually, most everyone freaks out at Rand. Seriously. Remember Tuon's reaction to him? Remember how Cadsuane is secretly freaking out all the time he's around? The guy is one of the few in the series that seems to fit the legend people have built around him.

 

Its just he had a Dark Messiah vibe until now. He'll be on a messiah pedestal the rest of the series, kinda, but more like Dune type messiah. He'll still be all awesome and perhaps even a Ninja