Seandar (Spoilers for Chap. 1)

[JenniferL]

"A murderer openly ruled in Seandar" Who is it? How did it happen? Is this just a throw away reference or a hint of something major to come? Discuss!

[GB]

there is no more imperial family since semi killed them all, so must be some other person.

 

i am thinking it must be something major to come, possibly Tuon sending her forces through a gateway to retake seandar and the crystal throne at the same time and bring the throne to Edou Dar.

 

as to who is the murderer? i first thought of Demadred then thought it could be one of his proxies, he always prefer to use proxies, and he is meant to have "secure" rule.

[JenniferL]

I doubt it's Tuon. Tuon is the rightful Empress so her ascension wouldn't cause comment, no matter how people she murdered to get there. My guess is that it's a member of the High Blood with Imperial connections and loose morals who has decided to take control of the capital.

[Elend]

I really like the Demandred theory. We haven't seen him onscreen yet and that could completely work if he's been manipulating events in Seanchan along with Semi. Bonus points that he managed to screw up his "watching" of Rand because he was really betraying his own alliance and getting ready to remove Semi's base of power via the murderer sitting on the throne.

[GB]

yeah it wont be Tuon but she will hear of this and will send her forces by gateway (thats what i meant lol)

and she need the throne as well ("the dragon reborn shall kneel to the crystal throne"), since she believes in that prophecy.

[Duskfire]

It just seems like so much more then just a throw-away comment. Not to mention there were numerous factions fighting one another. Seems like it would take something extradionary for one person to take the throne. I dont know if it is Demandred, but it wouldnt surprise me if it was a darkfriend or some such who may possibly aid the Shadow in TG.

[Deadsy]

They had to blame someone for the murders of the Seanchan ruling family, so it could easily just be whoever the opportunist was, and they're blaming him/her because it's the most obvious choice for who killed them.

[Luckers]

I think Deadsy's explanation is the most likely.

 

On a slightly related note, someone made the (rather clever) observation that the fleet of Greatships cited are somewhat odd.

 

The wind continued eastward, and soon it was playing with the masts of half-burned ships at the docks of Takisrom. Out into the Sleeping Bay, it passed the attackers: enormous greatships with sails painted blood red. They sailed southward, their grisly work done.

 

Given the Return should not all of Seanchan's ships be in Randland. I mean it took two hundred years to build the ships of the return, would not every one of them have been employed? And I found it interesting that the sails were described specifically as red. Seanchan sails are often mentioned, but always described as ribbed.

 

This could imply that the ships were not Seanchan. The way the wind is described to travel could place the Sleeping Bay in the an area accessable by the Morenal Ocean (under the tip of Qirat).

 

 

The big problem is that this could not possibly play out in the time remaining as anything other than a curioso. And why would Shara choose now to attack Seanchan? Are we to imply that the Shadow was responsible? But if the Shadow had power in Shara, why would they employ it to attack Seanchan and not Randland?

 

Also the wording implied the assault Takisrom was specific. The attackers 'work was done'. Even if sacking Takisrom was a necessasary military action as a prelude to a greater assault, it would still be just a beginning.

 

Perhaps the assault was orchistrated by the Shadow--perhaps the Shadow now fears Seanchan military might unrestrained by Semirhage, and is working to get Fortuona to retreat by news of an invasion of Seanchan?

[Deadsy]

I don't think we'll ever find out much more about it, and it makes me long for the 3 outrigger novels even more.

[Rufae]

I think the sail color is important in that in a Civil War, there has to be a way to revognize factions on the battlefield. So new variances have to be made to the same equipment. All of Seanchan would have the same equipment and same banners. So when civil war broke out, the natural way to say "I'm with X" would be to change sail color.

 

I would say it is just some Red Faction who struck at some target in Takisrom. Likely there is a White Faction, Blue, Yellow, etc...

 

 

If we were to apply the situation to the Russian Revolution, things kind of parallel.

 

 

 

• Royal Family wiped out
• Murderer in power in the Capital (Lenin/Stalin figure?)
• A Red Faction (perhaps the faction opposing the people loyal to the Empress?)

I would not be surprised if there was not a White Faction who are loyal to the Empress Family (Tuon?).

 

It would be very Jordan-esque to link this event to a real life revolution.

 

 

[Sharaman]

Semi's a smart babe. She must have impersonated some credible Seanchan High Blood while doing the murders and maybe Compelled her/ him (more likely her given Seanchan vibes) to grab the throne.

[Stevros]

I don't think its Demandred, I think its just someone who's taken over the imperial throne over there; an opportunist who killed off those remaining rivals. I think perhaps that would be one of the focuses of the outrigger novels Mat helping Tuon regain her throne over there.

[Random Man]

Semi's a smart babe. She must have impersonated some credible Seanchan High Blood while doing the murders and maybe Compelled her/ him (more likely her given Seanchan vibes) to grab the throne.

I don't know if she would have cared if anyone in particular had moved to seize the throne or not. She wiped out the entire Imperial family in what appears to have been an attempt to throw the entire empire into chaos. I would say her job was done at that point, because there'd be a dozen contenders all scrambling over each other with no one able to gain enough support to control the entire continent. Why bother even impersonate anyone? I bet she didn't even have a Mask of Mirrors on when she slaughtered the empress. She probably just waltzed into court and went to town.

[metaphor]

Killing rivals to gain power seems to be considered a matter of life in seanchan.

A murderer ruling, unless they were just blamed for the killing of the royal family, makes me think that they are not nobly born. Or at least, not Seanchan nobly born.

A war between Shara and Seanchan would certainly be interesting, even if it only gets mentioned a couple of times.

[Charlz Guybon]

I think Deadsy's explanation is the most likely.

 

On a slightly related note, someone made the (rather clever) observation that the fleet of Greatships cited are somewhat odd.

 

The wind continued eastward, and soon it was playing with the masts of half-burned ships at the docks of Takisrom. Out into the Sleeping Bay, it passed the attackers: enormous greatships with sails painted blood red. They sailed southward, their grisly work done.

 

Given the Return should not all of Seanchan's ships be in Randland. I mean it took two hundred years to build the ships of the return, would not every one of them have been employed? And I found it interesting that the sails were described specifically as red. Seanchan sails are often mentioned, but always described as ribbed.

 

This could imply that the ships were not Seanchan. The way the wind is described to travel could place the Sleeping Bay in the an area accessable by the Morenal Ocean (under the tip of Qirat).

 

 

The big problem is that this could not possibly play out in the time remaining as anything other than a curioso. And why would Shara choose now to attack Seanchan? Are we to imply that the Shadow was responsible? But if the Shadow had power in Shara, why would they employ it to attack Seanchan and not Randland?

 

Also the wording implied the assault Takisrom was specific. The attackers 'work was done'. Even if sacking Takisrom was a necessasary military action as a prelude to a greater assault, it would still be just a beginning.

 

Perhaps the assault was orchistrated by the Shadow--perhaps the Shadow now fears Seanchan military might unrestrained by Semirhage, and is working to get Fortuona to retreat by news of an invasion of Seanchan?

 

Two reasons that I can see.

 

#1 Seanchan is more easily accessible to Shara than the Westlands, or fleets have left for both continents, but have arrived in Seanchan first because it's closer.

 

#2 Trollocs can easily assail the West but they have no way to get to Seanchan. Also, someone like Demandred will always overreach and go for broke.

[Sharaman]

We've done a guided tour of all the great ports of the Westlands and learnt bits and pieces of the WoTverse history. Never any mention of a Sharan sailor or ship, let alone a Sharan fleet. It took the Seanchan 20 years to build and man the fleet for the Corenne/ Rhyagelle and the Seanchan actually had a maritime history. A Sharan shipping fleet complete with sailors would be far more unbelievable than a Sharan army.

[Lambada]

We've done a guided tour of all the great ports of the Westlands and learnt bits and pieces of the WoTverse history. Never any mention of a Sharan sailor or ship, let alone a Sharan fleet. It took the Seanchan 20 years to build and man the fleet for the Corenne/ Rhyagelle and the Seanchan actually had a maritime history. A Sharan shipping fleet complete with sailors would be far more unbelievable than a Sharan army.

 

I think what you're forgetting is that the fleet for the Corenne was far more akin to 100 ships of Noahs Ark proportion - having to hold soldiers, commoners, Blood, pets, livestock, food for everyone, fresh water for everyone (there were also mentions of a printing press being unloaded in one of Mats Ebou Dar points of view) for a long long voyage.

 

Comparing a normal Naval fleet to the Corenne fleet is entirely unjustified.

 

Seanchan and Shara can both be reasonably assumed to have some kind of Navy (if a primitive one) given that they are both unified contient-sized countries, with a unified military, and are, in all probability, aware of each other (the distance between Seanchan and Shara is far shorter - possibly down to a week at most).

[Sharaman]

We've done a guided tour of all the great ports of the Westlands and learnt bits and pieces of the WoTverse history. Never any mention of a Sharan sailor or ship, let alone a Sharan fleet. It took the Seanchan 20 years to build and man the fleet for the Corenne/ Rhyagelle and the Seanchan actually had a maritime history. A Sharan shipping fleet complete with sailors would be far more unbelievable than a Sharan army.

 

I think what you're forgetting is that the fleet for the Corenne was far more akin to 100 ships of Noahs Ark proportion - having to hold soldiers, commoners, Blood, pets, livestock, food for everyone, fresh water for everyone (there were also mentions of a printing press being unloaded in one of Mats Ebou Dar points of view) for a long long voyage.

 

Comparing a normal Naval fleet to the Corenne fleet is entirely unjustified.

 

Seanchan and Shara can both be reasonably assumed to have some kind of Navy (if a primitive one) given that they are both unified contient-sized countries, with a unified military, and are, in all probability, aware of each other (the distance between Seanchan and Shara is far shorter - possibly down to a week at most).

 

The ships here are described as "greatships" - the same description used for the Seanchan Corenne / Rhyagelle fleet.

What we've heard about Shara makes it likely that, like the Chinese and the Japanese between the 16-19th centuries, they restricted ship building to deliberately isolate their own population. Think about it, we've never heard of either a Shara ship or Shara sailors. Again, think about the fact that the sea-folk trade Shara silk, etc - the Sharans don't do it themselves.

[DemandredFO]

On a serious note, could the blood-red sails be a plan by Semirahgue. She gabbled to Suroth about having enough blood to cover the crystal throne. I've never seen a map of Wheel of Time earth, is there anything there besides land of Madmen, Seanchan, Shara and Randland?

Now, on a non-serious note; it's Danerys Tagarian. She got tired of waiting to invade Westeros so she decided to invade Seanchan.

[TankSpill]

there is no more imperial family since semi killed them all, so must be some other person.

 

i am thinking it must be something major to come, possibly Tuon sending her forces through a gateway to retake seandar and the crystal throne at the same time and bring the throne to Edou Dar.

 

as to who is the murderer? i first thought of Demadred then thought it could be one of his proxies, he always prefer to use proxies, and he is meant to have "secure" rule.

 

Hmmm, that sounds more like the outrigger novel(s) RJ had planned about Mat and Tuon's adventures in Seandar. I doubt anything of that sort will happen here. Based on what we've seen so far, I think Tuon and Mat are going to set up shop in Randland for the time being, ruling as some sort of Super-Duke-and-Duchess of the southern and western lands of Randlast, after they get rid of the whole a'dam/damane/sul'dam thing.

[GB]

there is no more imperial family since semi killed them all, so must be some other person.

 

i am thinking it must be something major to come, possibly Tuon sending her forces through a gateway to retake seandar and the crystal throne at the same time and bring the throne to Edou Dar.

 

as to who is the murderer? i first thought of Demadred then thought it could be one of his proxies, he always prefer to use proxies, and he is meant to have "secure" rule.

 

Hmmm, that sounds more like the outrigger novel(s) RJ had planned about Mat and Tuon's adventures in Seandar. I doubt anything of that sort will happen here. Based on what we've seen so far, I think Tuon and Mat are going to set up shop in Randland for the time being, ruling as some sort of Super-Duke-and-Duchess of the southern and western lands of Randlast, after they get rid of the whole a'dam/damane/sul'dam thing.

 

hmmm yeah you're probably right though the only thing that i am not sure of is how Tuon is going to get the Crystal Throne from Seandar to Edou Dar. Since she wants the DR to kneel to the throne. so somehow at some point, she will need to retrieve it.

[BunBun]

Didn't the Sea Folk take some Seanchan ships?

They did promise to let the Dragon use large numbers of their ships though, so they may not have ships to spare for revenge. Also why would they travel all the way to Seanchan to burn ships if they could do it closer to home? And why use only the captured Seanchan ships?

I don't think it's a strong possibility but it's another option.

[The Fisher King]

"A murderer openly ruled in Seandar" Who is it? How did it happen? Is this just a throw away reference or a hint of something major to come? Discuss!

 

Its a reference to Suroth.

 

It is known. This^^^ ... WTF...WTH...IDK...Epic Winnage...PWN...Massive Ownage...*Headdesks*...Darn beans=Fail - Now I have to Squee = FTW!

 

 

 

Fish

[Random Man]

The "known murderer" openly ruling is probably some pissant member of the Blood who saw an opportunity to grab Seandar and took out perhaps a couple of potential contenders or military generals to cement his/her control over the capital. IIRC the news promised by Semi spoke of a dozen or more claimants to the throne. Not surprising that within a month or two there'd be one person to rise to the top of the pile in Seandar -- for now, at least. One that isn't respected and probably won't stay on the heights for long.

 

EDIT: Um, Fish...did you take your pills today? You know we love you. Now please put down the kaf.

[Sharaman]

Demandred doesn't fit for several reasons. He's been active in the Westland since before the Seanchan arrived. We've seen that the Chosen have tended to avoid each others' spheres of influence. He'd also have had to get into some sort of deal with Semi, which appears unlikely.

It is most likely just a member of the High Blood who's grabbed power. May even be a member of the royal family from a previous generation (uncle/ aunt or even distant cousin of Tuon's perhaps).While the Seanchan have no issues about killing siblings on the way to succession, it's not mandatory and it's also quite possible that some sibling of Rhadannon's would have had kids.