Seandar (Spoilers for Chap. 1)

[DocBean]

On a serious note, could the blood-red sails be a plan by Semirahgue. She gabbled to Suroth about having enough blood to cover the crystal throne. I've never seen a map of Wheel of Time earth, is there anything there besides land of Madmen, Seanchan, Shara and Randland?

Now, on a non-serious note; it's Danerys Tagarian. She got tired of waiting to invade Westeros so she decided to invade Seanchan.

 

Awesome.

Tyrion, Dany and her Dragons would definitely kick some ass in Randland.

[Sentinel78]

On a serious note, could the blood-red sails be a plan by Semirahgue. She gabbled to Suroth about having enough blood to cover the crystal throne. I've never seen a map of Wheel of Time earth, is there anything there besides land of Madmen, Seanchan, Shara and Randland?

Now, on a non-serious note; it's Danerys Tagarian. She got tired of waiting to invade Westeros so she decided to invade Seanchan.

 

Awesome.

Tyrion, Dany and her Dragons would definitely kick some ass in Randland.

 

Unfortunately, Meereen is actually purgatory, as Dany will be mired their forever since George R.R. Martin is never going to release Book 5.

[DocBean]

When I read this scene my immediate thought was it was Demandred with a Sharan fleet.

I'm happy to see others think that too.

 

I've been saying since the early books that Shara will play a huge role before this is all done.

 

Think about it. If you could either march your army across a vast desert land (The waste)

or sail them across the sea; knowing that they'll have to fight once they get to their destination, Which method of transportation do you choose?

 

Demandred is sailing for Randland, and he's going to nip Tuon right in the butt.

 

Rand and company will be focusing everything to the north.

The Seanchan will be focusing on moving further inland.

What better place for the Dark forces to attack?

 

You want to keep the Seanchan busy so they can't team up with Rand.

[DocBean]

On another note.

 

What is with all the Black and Red?

 

We know Taim loves black and red, we know Rand loves black and red, we know Moridin and Demandred love black and red.

 

Fain REALLY seems to love black and red.

The sails are Red.

The towers of midnight and black Tower are black.

 

Is this just supposed to be some sort of Nazi Germany Reference?

 

Why do these darkfriends, (and Rand with his connection to Morridin most likely) have such an obsession with black and red?

[Charlz Guybon]

It was upon reading the prologue I realised that Shara and Seanchan are relatively very very close. Why then would the Seanchan not attack Shara? If from fear of what happened to the other ships Artur sent then why where they so ready to send the vast majority of their strength over to Randland? Strategically it would have made much more sense to take Shara out then move onto Randland via lad routes over the spine of the world and by using their massive armada and flying raken.

 

I was immediately drawn to the idea of Shara when it said 'blood red sails'. Could it be army of dark side humans from the blight? Surely not.

 

Also what goes on in blight above Shara and above Seanchan, it's as if those people have nothing to worry about despite sharing a birder that is on Randland - where the impact of the blight shaped culture, history, flags and customs. Touching the hilts on their sword to show respect is the latest in thousands of examples about how living near the blight effects cultures. Not in Seanchan though. Or shara, but that's off topic. Why did the Seanchan underestimate Shara?

Shara was invaded by Trollocs during the Trolloc Wars, but the Aiel know of no other fighting since that time there until the recent fighting over the news of Rand.

[Lisa Campbell]

Hi Sharaman.

 

Why do you think that the Seanchan don't have relations with Shara? When Rand and co. went to Tear to seal the negotiations with the Tairen rebels, in the Dragon (Inn) and he heard the Seanchan accent the man knew about silkworms when no-one in Randland does which is why there are myths about it like what the corrected barfly said.

 

If that detail about Shara is common knowlege in Seanchan, I think it stands to reason that the relations between the Seanchan and Sharans is different from those of Randland's. Unless Seanchan has it's own silkworms? I always imagined Shara to be kinda like the middle east, deserts bordering the ocean etc. And I can't remember Rhuarc calling it a "wetland" when he discussed it with Rand. Maybe Shara doesn't have the worms but trades for silk from Seanchan.

 

I am coming round on the theory that Demandred could have been in Shara and has invaded/conquered Seanchan. This is setting up for the next Ages when Hawkwing will again go and conquer them and create Seanchan all over again. I also wonder about the Amayar? Surely there will be some mention of them, the Seanchan hold one of the Sea Folk isles. There was foreshadowing in an earlier POV (End of Illusions?). Also the Amayar prophecy makes me think of the Ogier and the book of translation.

 

Any thoughts?

[Slick Mongoose]

It would seem fairly pointless for it to be a Sharan army run by Demandred. Why have Semirhage kill off the Imperial family and start a civil war just to have some other Forsaken come in and try to take the place over?

 

Because it's much easier to conquer somewhere that's already divided, rather than having all of the Seanchan united against you?

 

And we know that Demandred and Semirhage were allied.

[Sharaman]

Hi Sharaman.

 

Why do you think that the Seanchan don't have relations with Shara? When Rand and co. went to Tear to seal the negotiations with the Tairen rebels, in the Dragon (Inn) and he heard the Seanchan accent the man knew about silkworms when no-one in Randland does which is why there are myths about it like what the corrected barfly said.

 

If that detail about Shara is common knowlege in Seanchan, I think it stands to reason that the relations between the Seanchan and Sharans is different from those of Randland's. Unless Seanchan has it's own silkworms? I always imagined Shara to be kinda like the middle east, deserts bordering the ocean etc. And I can't remember Rhuarc calling it a "wetland" when he discussed it with Rand. Maybe Shara doesn't have the worms but trades for silk from Seanchan.

 

I am coming round on the theory that Demandred could have been in Shara and has invaded/conquered Seanchan. This is setting up for the next Ages when Hawkwing will again go and conquer them and create Seanchan all over again. I also wonder about the Amayar? Surely there will be some mention of them, the Seanchan hold one of the Sea Folk isles. There was foreshadowing in an earlier POV (End of Illusions?). Also the Amayar prophecy makes me think of the Ogier and the book of translation.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Shara deliberately seems to avoid having relations with any nation. Their methods of governance (female channelers rule from behind puppets) is also one that would be anathema to Seanchan. The silkworms business (the entire incident) is a little puzzling but yes, Seanchan may have its own silkworms. It does have silk and the sea-folk don't trade with the Seanchan (they trade Shara silk to the Westlands), so it's possible.

Shara is massive - an entire continent, (as is Seanchan) if one can believe the maps. (Historically the Chinese concealed the silk-worm connection as long as they could, also the Chinese deliberately closed off all its own sea traffic in the late 15th century - RJ seems to have borrowed those details for Shara).

All Rhuarc said about Shara IIRC is that they lie a helluva lot and cheat and call themselves by many different names.

The Amayar have all committed suicide haven't they?

Demandred could be in Seanchan - but it seems unlikely because the conflict in the Westlands is reaching a climax.

[Duskfire]

In order for Demandred to take over, the Empress needed to die and the civil war start. Else he would have had everyone rallied against him immediately. Tuon remarks that is something like 50 factions fighting for the throne, and now all of a sudden we apparently have someone who did enough to call themselves a ruler. Am not syaing its Demandred, but it absolutely can't be counted out because it was Semiharges territory.

[Lisa Campbell]

There's still plenty of time to TG. I think the big smackdown with the DO (actually only the beginning of it) will be at the end of this book. I read in another thread about it taking about a month to sail from Seanchan to the Westlands and Demandred can Travel to where ever he wants to carry out what ever will be.

 

There's just too much to be done before then. Mat's Dragons will take at least a month to prototype and set the wheels of manufacture in motion. He has to research the Finns and find out what the story is with Elayne. Perrin's got a way to go too and we have to find out about Mesaana in the tower and Cyndane hasn't been heard of in a long time. What's she up to, she's gotta be there somewhere because of the Lanfear/LTT link. There is much more politiking/manipulation and suspense on the way. I just can't wait.

[Kestrel]

What about the sudden lack of leadership in Shara when Rand balefired Graendal's hideout?

 

In LoC, Graendal was displaying the Sh'boan and Sh'botay of Shara as her latest pets. I doubt she let them go, and I doubt any of her pets escaped Rand's firestorm.

 

There's a window of opportunity here for a complete upheaveal and revolution in Shara's oppressive government.

[Lisa Campbell]

So you think Graendal has gone to Shara and will invade Seanchan etc.? Interesting and something I hadn't thought of. Also in favour, Graendal wouldn't care two figs that it used to be Semirhage's territory. I imagine her response to that question would be something along the lines of: "That worm, Semirhage? I woul have killed her myself, she was never worthy"

[mossman87]

What about the sudden lack of leadership in Shara when Rand balefired Graendal's hideout?

 

In LoC, Graendal was displaying the Sh'boan and Sh'botay of Shara as her latest pets. I doubt she let them go, and I doubt any of her pets escaped Rand's firestorm.

 

There's a window of opportunity here for a complete upheaveal and revolution in Shara's oppressive government.

 

The real leaders of Shara rule from the dark, kinda like Iran I guess. Take out their president and the Guardian Council and Khamenei are still there to rule. the Sh'b's were merely figureheads.

Of course we found out there was upheaval in Shara a long time ago anyway.

 

All this talk of Shara made me look up quotes, and one caught my eye from RJ in 2003.

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 16 January 2003, Dayton, OH - Tim Kington reporting

Q: Will Shara get any screen time?

RJ: Read and find out. I don't know, actually. There are things that need to happen that might have to happen there, but it will be a lot easier if I can make them happen somewhere else.

 

Q: I know I will most likely get a RAFO, but will we ever learn more about Shara?

RJ: Yep, most definitely RAFO.

That's way after the Sh'boan and Sh'botay being taken, so who knows maybe it is Shara attacking Seanchan.

Just saw another one, I hate to get into FelixPax territory here, but damn:

The Path of Daggers book tour 14 November 1999, Louisville, KY - Matthew Hunter reporting

Evidently, China was a real behemoth in the middle ages, right on the track to world domination, until they decided they didn't really want to rule the world. The following is a summary from hastily scribbled notes on a subject about which I am relatively ignorant; if I fuck up, it means I can't read my notes.

1484: In the time before Columbus... China has a huge fleet of ships (3000 of them, half-million crew), printing presses, generally huge technological advantage over everywhere else. The fleet is commanded by a name that translates as "Three-Jeweled Eunuch" (although he was evidently not a eunuch??) (Me - Demandred?). The fleet had superior logistics (well, something about logistics right about here) and had reached Madagascar. They were planning to round the Cape of Good Hope and see what they found.

1490: The year they would have reached Europe...and overwhelmed it. Unfortunately, bad things happened. The current Emperor died and was succeeded by his son, who was young and had self-confidence problems. The palace eunuchs (evidently a powerful political force) grew concerned over the changes caused by outside influences, believing them to be corrupting Chinese culture. They convinced the Emperor to shut China off from the rest of the world by burning seafaring boats (including that huge fleet!), restricting foreigners to certain cities and killing them if they were caught outside, and killing Chinese who left to see the world and then returned. It seems the Japanese also did this -- twice, in fact. This was a very long spiel coming from the nonfiction military history books he recommended. There was a lot more detail than I managed to capture, but one thing that stood out in my mind was that he had just told us the origins of Shara and the Seanchan. Or some of them, at least.

Interesting read if nothing else. Personally I think Valan Luca is heading up Shara now.

[TalonSpiritCat]

Just to really let the Lord of Chaos rule...could the ships be from the Isle of Madmen? As easily sent from the chaos there as from Shara.

[Sentinel78]

Just to really let the Lord of Chaos rule...could the ships be from the Isle of Madmen? As easily sent from the chaos there as from Shara.

 

I considered this but there is no centralized power structure in the Isle of Madmen. In other words, show me how they get sophisticated enough to have an economy that would be required to build those ships. I just don't see it happening. Shara has a centralized authoritarian government and could get it done. The Isle of Madmen, which we know next to nothing about, would have to be conquered village by village with random channelers living here and there... It's just not worth the effort of conquering and uniting I think. Shara would just need a coup to a few people in their basic power structure, their figureheads have been missing for years and we already know it was racked with an unprecedented civil war.

 

So all in all, Shara makes more sense than the Isle of Madmen, IMHO.

[Lisa Campbell]

I must have missed this ref in the series but where is the Isle of Madman mentioned? I can't believe I've missed this through all my readings...

[mossman87]

I must have missed this ref in the series but where is the Isle of Madman mentioned? I can't believe I've missed this through all my readings...

 

Never mentioned in the books, just in the Guide.

[Lisa Campbell]

Well that would explain it then. I've never read that.