Chapter 1 "Apples First"

[DemandredFO]

One prophecy, I forget where, says the great sword justice in his hand, so he won't give it up. It will probably be a key to the treaty, a stipulation that when TG is over the sword returns to Fortuona.

[Sid]

I just wonder how anyone could vouch for its authenticity?

Mat blows Horn of Valere

Artur Hawkwing: Hello.

Rand: This is Justice, is it not?

Artur Hawking: Yeah, that's it. What's up with those people with the ridiculous haircuts?

[Kidicaris]

I just wonder how anyone could vouch for its authenticity?

Mat blows Horn of Valere

Artur Hawkwing: Hello.

Rand: This is Justice, is it not?

Artur Hawking: Yeah, that's it. What's up with those people with the ridiculous haircuts?

 

haha I imagined this scenario when I typed my earlier post, but the Horn is a long way away and who knows what the Seanchan would make of the heroes, do they even know of or would believe in the Horn? They might think it a trick of Rand channeling illusions. Maybe Tuon could just ask Mat? She believes he remembers the man, maybe she could accept that he remembered the legendary weapon too.

[nnokwoodeye]

I wonder if all the structural anomalies the tower has gone through lately would be undone when rand will show up.

[nyquil99]

I really liked the first chapter and hope that Rand has really changed. I was getting tired of him seeing people as tools to be used and discarded to accomplish his goal.

 

Also I learned that witches live in nests; I wouldn't have thought that of witches.

[hotpocket2006]

I absolutely lurved that chapter. I loved the opening with them describing how Seanchan is in shambles and then how it transitions to "Randland." I was feeling so sorry for the apple tree farmers. I was starting to tear up when the old man was wondering if it was the end, and then bam Rand comes and makes everything better. I almost cried lol that's amazing considering it was just the first chapter. I have a feeling I'm going to be an emotional wreck throughout the book.

 

The only problem I have with the first chapter is that I want the book right meow!

[Swithin]

I went to bad after posting, and had this nagging thought while trying to fall asleep. It's been discussed here, but I haven't seen the possible implications mentioned.

 

Rand's shift from dark-aura to light-aura reminds me of the Fisher King in Sha'rah (not to mention that Rand seems to be kicking up his tav'Arthurian qualities as well.) I don't have the direct quote from the books in front of me, but wasn't it said that the Fisher King was the only piece on the board that could be captured and controlled by either side, and therefore could be either a Light piece or a Dark piece? This leads to two interesting places:

 

1. Rand's Dragonmount moment might have actually been a play by the Creator. Rather than this omni-benevolent, uninvolved force, the Creator may have been directly manipulating many events throughout the series by causing the wheel and ta'veren funkiness as counter-plays to the DO. The Skies-over-Falme incident, for instance, has been described as the Wheel spontaneously manifesting an event because "that's how it works". What if it's not so mysterious, what if that's simply how the Creator plays the game? This both makes the character (for lack of a better term) seem both more involved (a potentially good thing,) but also less "good"... he's just the DO's opponent, and the Wheel is simply their "amusement". What if the Creator isn't so great after all?

 

2. Apparently, controlling the Fisher King in sha'rah is both a power-play and a risky move. You can also lose because you control him, (IIRC) if your opponent leaves him no legal moves. Now that Rand's controlled by the Light-side/Creator, there will be a new strategy against him... but it's also possible that Rand sees an opportunity to beat the DO by (at the end) going over to his side and losing the game (another "accepting the blade" maneuver - what did Lan call it? Was it "sheathing the sword", or is that phrase from another work? I can't remember.)

[Random Man]

Something just occurred to me. At first I thought Rand's manifesting the increased impact of ta'veren on a rapidly unravelling pattern, but now I'm not that sure. We've been told the difference between ta'veren "happenstance" and the DO's touch on the world is that things caused by proximity to a ta'veren are merely improbable, but not impossible -- they don't break laws of physics or happen unless there's at least one chance in a trillion or whatever. Fish aren't going to rain from the sky unless somehow they got up there to begin with. The DO's touch causes things that couldn't naturally happen, such as the wind blowing two directions at once, or someone's body spontaneously combusting, or...you get the idea.

 

So what the heck was what Rand did to the apple orchard? Rotting apples don't just melt into the ground and vanish, and trees don't go from new blossom to ripened fruit in the blink of an eye. That's an impossibility if we're playing by the Wheel's natural laws. I don't think this could be caused by ta'veren effect. It's if what happened was a...a Bubble of Good.

 

Goodbubble? Lightbubble? Meh. None of them roll off the tongue.

[Elend]

Amazing chapter. Loved it. I saw the apples coming, but it was just so awesome when it did happen. I walked away for a few moments reading it just to savor what was going to come.

[GB]

awesome chapter

cant help it "SQUEEE OMG OMG"

lol

freaking awesome and i am thinking rand in the tower will help egwene uncover mesaana though his taveren effect.

egwene might gather a few sisters she is suspecting is Mesanna and with rand in the same room, who knows what will come out of their mouths.

 

anyway cant wait anymore

[DemandredFO]

I don't see Egwene being rational enough to trust Rand in that way

[GB]

you never know, she could see rand has changed (that would be cool) but knowing egwene and how arrogant she is, you probably right.

 

wonder what rand will tell her?

to rally the aes sedai and join him?

[DemandredFO]

Probably something like you can't be another Letra.

[Sentinel78]

I wonder if all the structural anomalies the tower has gone through lately would be undone when rand will show up.

 

I considered this - that would be cool

[Elend]

Perhaps the "knowing wrath" thing will be that, now, Rand will understand why Egwene is angry. He will "know" it but not particularly be browbeat or anything by her. I'm really excited about that reunion.

 

Also, Almen has appeared in 3 chapters, two in EotW, 1 in TGH.

 

He is the guy that refused to divulge information he had on Rand/Mat to a Darkfriend innkeeper (didn't know he was a Darkfriend, but didn't trust him anyway). A really good guy, love the idea that the good is being repaid with good. I really have to give mad props to either RJ or BS for reusing such an old character and doing it so effectively. A beautiful thing.

[GB]

indeed such a cool thing to bring back old characters

p.s apparently rand only hold and counteract the DO's effect for a limited time only

[Auld Manriva]

Loved the chapter... absolutely. I was choked up even more than when Rands l'il cousin man's up to Elayne and say's "Mantear stands for Trakand"... sporty little fella that one.

 

One prophecy, I forget where, says the great sword justice in his hand, so he won't give it up. It will probably be a key to the treaty, a stipulation that when TG is over the sword returns to Fortuona.

 

I think justice was a sword LTT had. The sword is older than the Prophecy, so it was around before Hawkwing, so not Hawkwings to own. So why would Rand give the thing to that scrub Fortuneta'... I hope with all my heart he takes every bloody thing FROM her.

 

I think Rand is off to see the Lizard/Amyrlin (whoever it is) and tell her Men and Whoa!men must work together, we got's to pacify the Sean's, etc... I think the "Amyrlin's Wrath" will be anti-climactic. Egwene's likely not who the Prophecy was expecting and she understands Rand better than anyone outside Min and she'll see the boy from Two Rivers in the blink of an eye. She'll muck about like women do when they're caught wrong footed, but she'll see the right of it.

 

Now if he kicks the beejezzes outta Gaglwyn or breaks the emo goobs little schword over the lads hind end, THEN she might be a bit piqued.

 

I agree with the thought that the warping seen around Rand is the effect of Ta'veren being physically manifested due to Rand being the Dude with a New Attitude.

[bjsm]

Also, I noticed that Rand said he doubted the Amyrlin would be pleased by what "he" told "her." Doesn't seem like he's concerned she's going to be angry about something that had happened before. I'm guessing this has something to do with new understanding he has in combination with what happened back in the AoL with the female Aes Sedai and the Fateful Concord. What was her name? Lara Rose Pentae or something? The "voice" of LTT was dwelling on this in TGS and "Rand" had been pressing him for answers.

 

Love this idea. I've recently been thinking that Egwene is Latra Posea (or whatever her name is) reborn.

 

Also, it's cool to me that after 12 books, Rand is finally going to Tar Valon for the first time. Remember how that was originally their desired destination back in tEotW?

 

Good stuff!

 

Latra Posae Decume.

 

And, maybe. We have little knowledge of what exactly would have happened had the Fateful Concord not taken place. I think generally we are too quick to judge that LTT was right and Latra wrong; had the powerful women gone with the men, saidar might also have been tainted, and the world would have had no chance at all against either all of the insane channelers or, thousands of years later, the reemerging Dark One. We don't know at all that the only reason the Hundred Companions were only partially successful was the lack of women. That's just one possibility. LTT certainly was not completely confident that his plan would succeed; he just thought it was bolder than the CK strategy.

[Terrel88]

LTT never owned Justice. We know this as in tGS, Rand notes how odd it is that he recognises it, NOT LTT. (He saw it in Hawkwing's hand at Falme, LTT had never seen it before.)

Although you could say they are the same person

[Kaznen]

I think the apples that Rand grew on the trees were Honey Crisps, because they are the best and he wouldn't wouldn't want the second rate Red Delicious apples.

 

I am eating a Honeycrisp right now as I troll this forum. I'm delighted to find a kindred spirit. Let's plan it. When we finally crack ToM in its entirety... let us hold the divine apple in our other hand.

You Bastard! The Honey Crisps haven't made their way to North Carolina, that I saw, yet. And I went to the store to check a week ago.

[csarmi]

... and why would it matter who is who reborn? If there is no memory seeping through, it should be completely irrelevant - and completely unprovable either way. Apply Occam's Razor?

[b3arz3rg3r]

Something just occurred to me. At first I thought Rand's manifesting the increased impact of ta'veren on a rapidly unravelling pattern, but now I'm not that sure. We've been told the difference between ta'veren "happenstance" and the DO's touch on the world is that things caused by proximity to a ta'veren are merely improbable, but not impossible -- they don't break laws of physics or happen unless there's at least one chance in a trillion or whatever. Fish aren't going to rain from the sky unless somehow they got up there to begin with. The DO's touch causes things that couldn't naturally happen, such as the wind blowing two directions at once, or someone's body spontaneously combusting, or...you get the idea.

 

So what the heck was what Rand did to the apple orchard? Rotting apples don't just melt into the ground and vanish, and trees don't go from new blossom to ripened fruit in the blink of an eye. That's an impossibility if we're playing by the Wheel's natural laws. I don't think this could be caused by ta'veren effect. It's if what happened was a...a Bubble of Good.

 

Goodbubble? Lightbubble? Meh. None of them roll off the tongue.

 

I think Rand consciously exerted his will against the pattern to make it happen. The second apple growth wasn't by chance it was by Rand's design. We've seen several times how one of the ta'veren consciously influenced the effect he has on the pattern. Mat throwing a losing toss because he wanted it, Rand influencing on which side the coin would land in Rhuidean and now the apple orchard.

 

Also, I noticed that Rand said he doubted the Amyrlin would be pleased by what "he" told "her." Doesn't seem like he's concerned she's going to be angry about something that had happened before. I'm guessing this has something to do with new understanding he has in combination with what happened back in the AoL with the female Aes Sedai and the Fateful Concord. What was her name? Lara Rose Pentae or something? The "voice" of LTT was dwelling on this in TGS and "Rand" had been pressing him for answers.

 

Love this idea. I've recently been thinking that Egwene is Latra Posea (or whatever her name is) reborn.

 

Also, it's cool to me that after 12 books, Rand is finally going to Tar Valon for the first time. Remember how that was originally their desired destination back in tEotW?

 

Good stuff!

 

Latra Posae Decume.

 

And, maybe. We have little knowledge of what exactly would have happened had the Fateful Concord not taken place. I think generally we are too quick to judge that LTT was right and Latra wrong; had the powerful women gone with the men, saidar might also have been tainted, and the world would have had no chance at all against either all of the insane channelers or, thousands of years later, the reemerging Dark One. We don't know at all that the only reason the Hundred Companions were only partially successful was the lack of women. That's just one possibility. LTT certainly was not completely confident that his plan would succeed; he just thought it was bolder than the CK strategy.

 

Wasn't Latra one of those in favor of using the Choedan Kal? And I doubt using those would have been the saner strategy.

[Elend]

Both LTT and LPD were completely wrong w.r.t the strategy against the Dark One. LPD's rejection of LTT's plan wasn't even based in what actually happened- in fact, what she was afraid to happen apparently wasn't an issue at all.

[Stevros]

Well I think that Rand has the ability to twist his tavern to only give good/bad events; in the previous book due to his state of mind the things were all bad. Now he is at peace with himself (in my opinion for the first time since the TEotW) things around him will all be good.

[Luckers]

Rand mentions that the breaking of the Dark One's touch is localised around him. This could indicate that Rand is in Caemlyn during chapter 8?