Chapter 1 "Apples First"

[wipe]

Just a few musings after spending the weekend at a cottage with no net access:

 

-I wanted to post about the sun in Mat's chapter, but discovered that Duskfire had beat me to it. My take is that it might be that we're seeing that Mat is also affecting the land/pattern in a more direct way (Perrin might have the same effect now as well..). This would solve the problem with the timeline argument of him being in Caemlyn when the sun comes out. It might also point to a later larger effect as the three ta-veren meet up. You all know Min's viewing: separately they are fire flies trying to stem the darkness, two of them together holds it in check (three of them togethet beats back the darkness???). Perhaps this is the start of the resolution of this viewing (and how they together will beat back the dark one).

 

-Some other musings i've had over the weekend. We all take that the apples blossoming are part of his ta-veren ness. But does it not also imply that he can affect time: bare tree- blossoms- ripe apples in a couple of minutes. This might have implications- look below.

 

-I assume that he's seeing the Amyrlin next, and that we will get the Amyrlin's anger part soon (as stated on the first page). This I think will be somewhat of an anti-climax. But I would love to get a POV from Mesana when he's over there. This will force her hand I think, as I think Rand and Eg will reach an understanding/agreement at the end of the chapter. And maybe said agreement will lead again to the "Seanchan dreams" to come through for her as she will no longer be at odds (she personally will be, but have to accept their help as part of the agreement) with them as such (after Rand also allies with the Seanchan). Maybe the Seanchan has a big role to play in helping Eg out with Mesana later on in the book/series.

 

-Now to Rand's effect on the flow time: Elayne is pretty much out of the series now due to her pregancy. She can't channel worth of S**t because of it's effect. What if Rand actually meets up with her (i.e. when in Andor for the Black tower), might he not also alter her pregnancy (ripen) so that she gives birth before the end of the series? (this effect might also be caused by Mat se top(or Perrin, if he travels to Andor with Galad and Morgase)). This would get Elayne out of her funk and back as a player as a channeler again, not just a politician. I'm also of the opinion that these will be the old heroes from TaR that follow the end of an age, and accordingly need to be born before the last battle (but remember, the world is not done with battle after that )

 

Fire away

 

EDIT: Just as a side note. What will be strange with Av and Rand's kids. My theory actually supports the 1) body swap (which I don't like, but consede is likely) and 2)the pulling out of Tel an Riod theory ( as I posted about way back- and I hope happens).

1) Rand in Moridins body as the father. Still "Rand" but not his original body- so that would be a little of.

2) Same argument, Rand would have the body he wears in TaR, it will not be the same he had in this life- so a little of on the kids.

[ghenjei]

Reminded me of Arthur's ride in John Boorman's Excalibur... :) All my instincts are telling me to dislike such tidiness, dark-warp turning into light-warp, Zen Buddhist Rand, etc... but there's such a sense of glee to it all. I just realized how long, in page-count or even book-count, it's been since the WoT has had a true breath of fresh air.

 

The scent of apple blossoms, huh? Perfect.

 

I really wish I didn't have to wait another month to read the full book!

 

 

That was exactly the image that came to mind when I read this. Well done Sanderson. The only complaint is the use of the word "ain't". This is High Fantasy, not Tobacco Road. (Insert Dead Mule Joke here)

[ghenjei]

 

Love this idea. I've recently been thinking that Egwene is Latra Posea (or whatever her name is) reborn.

 

Also, it's cool to me that after 12 books, Rand is finally going to Tar Valon for the first time. Remember how that was originally their desired destination back in tEotW?

 

Good stuff!

 

 

Egghead's comeuppance is nigh! Shame, as she was actually getting to be a bit more tolerable until the sanctimonious crap during TGS.

[Deadsy]

My take is that it might be that we're seeing that Mat is also affecting the land/pattern in a more direct way (Perrin might have the same effect now as well..). This would solve the problem with the timeline argument of him being in Caemlyn when the sun comes out. It might also point to a later larger effect as the three ta-veren meet up. You all know Min's viewing: separately they are fire flies trying to stem the darkness, two of them together holds it in check (three of them togethet beats back the darkness???). Perhaps this is the start of the resolution of this viewing (and how they together will beat back the dark one).

 

I really like this idea. It does have some issues though. Everywhere was dark while Rand was in his funk, so it all hinges on him. Maybe post DM it allows him and the other two ta'veren to have this effect. I still think it's probably only "The Dragon is one with the land" but I like the idea that Mat is making the clouds part without knowing it

[Mimiw]

I have to agree with ghenjei's comment. Egwene seems to be on a high horse lately. hope she doesn't devolve into another Snip-nosed overbearing prancing shegoat and screw everything up. on another note i think "Apples First" is a great big breath of fresh air to the WoT Whew....i mean really, Reading the last couple of books was so depressing they made me want to cut myself (-_-)

[TheAngryDruid]

My take is that it might be that we're seeing that Mat is also affecting the land/pattern in a more direct way (Perrin might have the same effect now as well..). This would solve the problem with the timeline argument of him being in Caemlyn when the sun comes out. It might also point to a later larger effect as the three ta-veren meet up. You all know Min's viewing: separately they are fire flies trying to stem the darkness, two of them together holds it in check (three of them togethet beats back the darkness???). Perhaps this is the start of the resolution of this viewing (and how they together will beat back the dark one).

 

I really like this idea. It does have some issues though. Everywhere was dark while Rand was in his funk, so it all hinges on him. Maybe post DM it allows him and the other two ta'veren to have this effect. I still think it's probably only "The Dragon is one with the land" but I like the idea that Mat is making the clouds part without knowing it

 

I second the appreciation of this idea. Spot on!

[Crossroad]

Great start, loved it.

 

Just a little comment here about why Eg could be angry. Rand knows whats happen to the 20 missing AS that went to the BT from the Rebel camp. Once the storms over they will sit down and work out how they are going to fix this problem, how to get the Rebel AS back. I'd hope to see AM at the WT from this point on.

 

Oh well here's hoping.

 

Gee a few hours to get thru everyones comments overall I believe most people were really excited like myself.

[NetSlider]

"Hey Egwene"

"Hi Rand. How´s it going?"

"Not too bad i suppose. Scored myself three hot women, cleansed saidin and had an epiphany. I did have to kill Gawyn a minute ago though. He ran at me foaming at the mouth and tried to skewer me. What the hell was he doing here anyway?"

"Being clingy. Not that it isn´t good to see you again but what are you doing here?"

"Oh, i came here to tell you that i figured out a way to stop the Dark One"

"i like that"

"but if it works the OP will inaccessible for a couple of Ages"

"I don´t like that"

 

 

Firstly: ROFLMAO! loved that!

 

 

I think she will be angry about the bonding of aes sedai be because she assumes he gave the order to do it

Either that or he will go tell her his revelation on how to win TG and she is going to be mad about what it entails. Or she will suggest changes to want he says needs to be done, he will say no to some/all of her suggestions and she will get mad

 

 

I agree with this.

 

- LTT said the seals had to be destroyed, the women of his age didn't agree, he tried without them: disaster for male channelers.

- That scholar that called Min a pretty thing (forgot his name) also came to the conclusion the seals had to be destroyed

- Rand has a number of the seals, the White Tower (aka Egwene) has a number of the seals)

- we now know that the toughest, most fantastic works done with the One Power are done by joint cooperation between Saidin and Saidar, meaning male and female working together. LTT tried the single most important thing in all of history with only Saidin. Rand knows it hàs to be done with both. Just like the cleansing of the taint, but on an even much larger scale. meaning: every single Aes Sedai and Ashaman working together in the biggest circle humanly possible with Rand controlling the flows.

 

--> Egwene won't like this for a number of reasons:

- she won't like the idea of destroying the seals to begin with (Amyrlin = Keeper of the Seals, remember?)

- she won't like that Rand controlls the flows if they do it (though she probably will eventually concede to that, him being who he is after all).

 

--> He will know the Amyrlin's anger:

- is a different and unrelated issue to the above

- she's already shown anger for the bonding of Aes Sedai by Ashaman and has already spoken the words that 'though he may not have ordered it, he is still responsible for it, being the leader of the Ashaman'.

- they will get into a back and forth argument (him accusing the AS of all the things they've done in turn)

- they'll come to a mutual understanding, perhaps not going so far as to agree to their mutual responsibility in what happened, but grudgingly accepting the situation as it is and moving on to more important matters: the destruction of the seals and the re-sealing of the bore (properly this time).

 

 

 

Consequence for Rand's ultra powers: he's going to die. His life force being the energy that will 'heal' the land, thus him becoming the land. Probably in the process of re-sealing the bore, channeling that much power has to have some effect no matter how strong one is.

 

 

As has been said, the Dark One is the counterpart of the Creator. No mortal, Ta'vere/Dragon Reborn or otherwise could ever 'slay' him. The best chance they have is to do what the Creator himself did (which is already a miracle in it's own right for any mortal to accomplish): lock him away in his prison for good. If the Dark One could be slain (safely), the Creator wouldn't have bothered imprisoning him to begin with. He'd have gotten rid of him all together himself.

 

The hole in the bore was made by humans and thus must be fixed by humans. Properly fixed.

 

 

that's my theory for now :)

 

I agree with most of this but i have a problem with Creator and DO being counterparts, and it seems to be completely accepted (and yes, i know RJ said it but he was wrong. yes, i said it, RJ was wrong in this). Counterparts means balance, and in purely logical and philosophical sense of the word that means equal. If creator could imprison DO (be it by using some power or resource not available to DO) it mean they were not equal (meaning that DO was not fast enough, strong enough, or had an ability to do the same to the Creator). Unless we are talking about infinite number of Creators and DO involved in the infinite number of creations and statistical probability of 50/50 victories (50% for DO and 50% for the Creator during such creations) they are not counterparts - instead, the Creator is greater than DO. This simple and pure logic only points out to one definite truth - Creator is stronger and more powerful than DO (by how much is completely irrelevant). It's kind of like that question about God and Satin - "What can stand against the will of God?" the answer if obvious - "Nothing. Because he/she is GOD."

So, I think that either DO is not equal to Creator and we simply don't really know the nature of the Creator well enough (obvious) or (and this is my crazy theory) it all comes down to the choice of men as the Creator and the DO is the same entity (god of creation and destruction).

[Sharaman]

Is there no way in which two equally matched entities can end up winning alternate bouts? I seem to be able to recall sporting contests where that happens.

Still, maybe the only way the Creator could lock the GLoD away was by recusing himself from the world as well.

Certainly seems that he can't touch the WoTverse either.

Maybe, the Creator is actually the GLoD as well and He's 13x13-ed himself, split the nasty parts and locked them away.

Who knows? RJ is omniscient - it's his universe.

[NetSlider]

Is there no way in which two equally matched entities can end up winning alternate bouts? I seem to be able to recall sporting contests where that happens.

Still, maybe the only way the Creator could lock the GLoD away was by recusing himself from the world as well.

Certainly seems that he can't touch the WoTverse either.

Maybe, the Creator is actually the GLoD as well and He's 13x13-ed himself, split the nasty parts and locked them away.

Who knows? RJ is omniscient - it's his universe.

 

What I always liked about RJ and the "religious and philosophical" aspect of his universe is that he left it very, very open. He created a very realistic world and I have to say that "spiritual and religious" aspect of it is also as real as it gets. Just as we don't have clear and definitive answer to these questions so there are no answers to the same questions in WoTverse (unlike other works where the goddess gives power to the wizard and all is peachy).

 

To your argument about sporting event - that is true but what also is true is that such outcome results in no changes. If two teams play and draw they will either play until one wins or reschedule the game. Now, imagine that they will continue to play until one wins - that means that if they are truly equal no one will ever win. If one team wins, lets say even after two days of straight game, that means that the victor was better (maybe by a very little margin, but better none the less).

[Duskfire]

We know that all three ta`veren need to be there at TG, and I doubt its just so Perrin can lead an army of wolves and archers and Mat can be an awesome general. There is something tying all three of them together, and whatever that is, that will be important in defeating the Dark One. So yeah, thats why I think the break in the clouds is ta`veren work; its the boys growing and maturing and expanding into their roles and gradually coming together to fight the final fight. I am willing to bet that at some point Perrin will have an awesome epiphany and he too will grow comfortable with his role in it all and when he does he too will get a break in the clouds.

[Maji]

I really enjoyed this chapter and has me craving more. It's nice to see Rand's ta'vern take 180 and go back to normal, bending towards the light/good-side (whatever you want to call it) only it seems to be super-charged now and more effective. It's nice to see him overturning some of the effect of the DO on the world. I was starting to worry how people were going to fight the last battle with no food!

 

I'm interested to see how Egwene will react to the new, calm Rand. Will she be more worried he's insane or more relieved that he doesn't lash out when she screams at him. *gasp* Maybe she'll even think he's not a wool-head!

[Rufae]

Rand's effect on the apples and people's mood made me wonder. This effect strongly mimics the Nym's abilities. I have always assumed the Nym were just contructs out of the era of Peace - leftovers if you will. But what if they were made to try and counter the DO's touch in the War of Power? One woud assume the DO had similar effects on the land and people then so the Aes Sedai could have created the Nym to battle those effects.

 

I think this makes the Green Man even more awsome and certainly explains his skill/ability to kill one of the Chosen at the Eye of the World. Also explains why the Aes Sedai woudl have chosen him to act as guardian to such an important artifact.

[NetSlider]

Rand's effect on the apples and people's mood made me wonder. This effect strongly mimics the Nym's abilities. I have always assumed the Nym were just contructs out of the era of Peace - leftovers if you will. But what if they were made to try and counter the DO's touch in the War of Power? One woud assume the DO had similar effects on the land and people then so the Aes Sedai could have created the Nym to battle those effects.

 

I think this makes the Green Man even more awsome and certainly explains his skill/ability to kill one of the Chosen at the Eye of the World. Also explains why the Aes Sedai woudl have chosen him to act as guardian to such an important artifact.

 

Nyms were there before the War of Power (we know that from vision Rand has when going through the columns). But where they made in the age before the AoL to counter DO is another question all together. Who nows, maybe.

 

As far as taveren linked to the breaks in the clouds, I think taveren has nothing to do with it. It's all about Rand (he has to be more than just some guy who can channel, his new ability finally puts him really above simple mortals ). The presence of Mat and Perrin at the LB is not simply for Mat's war knowledge and Perrin's wolf link, their presence will tilt the chance in light's favor (maybe kind of as if pattern will be represented by them for the light's side). So their presence there is important without the ability to heal the earth (which once again I think Rand-only thing)

[TankSpill]

Does anyone know if this was the entire chapter? CrazyFelix brought up a point on Theoryland that it was slightly short for a chapter, but I thought that had more to do with Sanderson's writing style vs. Jordan's. Does anyone know if this was in fact the entire first chapter, have there been any @BrandonSandrson tweets on it or anything?

[Impressive Bosom]

Perhaps the "knowing wrath" thing will be that, now, Rand will understand why Egwene is angry. He will "know" it but not particularly be browbeat or anything by her. I'm really excited about that reunion.

I've often thought the same thing, that he wouldn't 'know her anger' by being the subject of it, but would rather 'know her anger' by empathizing with it... he might discover the raid by the Seanchen on the Tower and that might be the catalyst for his finally going to the Seanchen and forcing this revelation of sul'dam being able to channel. And then of course the whole Justice/alliance thing as well.

 

Something that occurred to me - off the subject - was that of Rand's nature as Ta'veren and Ta'veren in general. We know that a person can become Ta'veren, presumably for however long they need to be to correct the pattern and then may no longer be. We also know that the intensity of one's Ta'veren nature waxes and wanes, presumably due to waxing and waning nature of the disruption to the pattern they are destined to repair... so I must assume that as the Dark One's threat continues to grow, as he becomes more and more of a threat to the pattern, so does Rand's Ta'veren nature until, ultimately, the entire world has essentially chosen sides.

[ghenjei]

Main issue with Egwene is she still thinks she has to control Rand. She's far better than the other AS, but she's basically 'drank the kool aid' and in all of her musings, we keep seeing how she wants her own sort of leash around Rand because he muse be controlled by the AS. Basically two steps forward, one step back.

 

 

This goes nicely with RJ's comments re: gender relations. The foolishness of men who think women are like incapable porcelain dolls who always need to be handled with kid gloves and the foolishness of women, who think they need to control every man around them and always know better than them.

[Impressive Bosom]

Wasn't Latra one of those in favor of using the Choedan Kal? And I doubt using those would have been the saner strategy.

I think the point is that either strategy might have worked - if men and women had worked together to see it through. The overwhelming theme of the book seems to be the necessity of male and female cooperation, their contrasts complimenting one another, shoring up one another's weaknesses and emphasizing one another's strengths.

[Razor]

He tweeted the first chapter was posted and gave the link.

[sdelu]

The apples blossoming... I don't think it's as big a mystery as everyone seems to think, or at least isn't the mystery people seem to think.

 

My immediate understanding of it was that Rand lifted the blight from the apples, and the natural growth that the blight was repressing burst forth. Sure, it flourished in the presence of the Dragon--he is one with the land, he can sort of bend the pattern around his will, yada yada--but I don't think he was acting as a conscious anti-blight so much as he understood what his presence meant and took advantage of it.

 

Considering the fact that the apples were growing even under the "blight" (albeit slowly), and the fact that the blight is more of a "covering" than an actual rot (I think of the blight, and the Blight, as a taint on the world akin to the taint on saidin), I'd say that Rand didn't channel apples into being like a Nym or what have you, but his presence simply removed the blight for the time being.

 

And it stands to reason that he can bend his ta'veren nature in more than one direction. Combine the lifting of the blight, the repressed natural growth of the land, and Rand's will that the people be fed (this would account for the amount of apples) and I don't think there's much mystery left.

[Rufae]

Netslider>> Actually the oldest memory of the Nym in Rand's regression is of the planting and The Song. In that scene, the soldier came and told Charn of the end of the War. So there is no evidence that the Nym were earlier Age constructs.

[NetSlider]

Netslider>> Actually the oldest memory of the Nym in Rand's regression is of the planting and The Song. In that scene, the soldier came and told Charn of the end of the War. So there is no evidence that the Nym were earlier Age constructs.

 

 

I think you might be right (i was thinking of Aiel thinking that the Nym used to carry his grandfather or such, but it was right before Aiel left the AS to start their journey). Than considering how Green Man said that he was not MADE for the purpose of guarding the Eye but still agreed to it might indeed mean that Nyms were MADE by AoL AS for some very specific purpose AKA making sure things grew and blight did not advance. Maybe the Song has something to do with the way to make them again.

 

 

[NetSlider]

Just thought of something. Considering how well Sameshta (sp) dealt with forsaken, imagine what an army of, oh lets say, 100,000 Nyms could do? Restore the land, take care of Grendal, and in between probably bi***-slap DO himself

[OptimusPrime]

Just read the first chapter today, awesome stuff. I loved TGS for showing us Rand through other peoples eyes and showing how dark he really was, and this was a nice contrast, especially when he said something like "Its been a long time since I understood the path before me." That to me definitely sounded like the new timeless Rand who knows of his past lives, I really liked that.

 

One thing I couldnt help think of, though, was Moridin. Id really like to see Moridin out and about, in some town trying to be inconspicuous, but failing very badly. Like he overhears something in a tavern, cant resist getting involved, and with only a few words has the entire room of drunks attacking him and he is forced to destroy them all with the True Power.

 

No idea where that came from though lol. So Rands presence, now that hes back to normal, stops the Dark Ones influence. He needs to pay Hinderstap a visit methinks. T'would be alright if the aforementioned Moridin scene happened there just before Rand got there, and then they met and had a chat and a scuffle.

[lordofsoup]

I hope no one has already mentioned this, but i dont have time to read everything. If Messana is still in the tower, and Rand goes there to see Egwene, what better time would it be to finally root her out of the tower.