Mat's Plans

[Charlz Guybon]

I see this "Elayne can copy the medallion" stuff a lot. How exactly does she study and then copy this item if any weave of the power that touches it melts, and that's not even mentioning the fact she can barely channel due to being pregnant. I'd say there's no way it gets copied and we're more likely to see some use of fireworks/explosives used to kill the gholam.

The Gholam was designed as an assassin during a world war fought with the one power, energy weapons, missiles, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc. I'll be very disappointed if a black powder bomb takes him out.

[dwn]

The Gholam was designed as an assassin during a world war fought with the one power, energy weapons, missiles, helicopters, armored vehicles, etc. I'll be very disappointed if a black powder bomb takes him out.

 

As you state, the gholam (or is the plural 'gholams'?) were made to be assassins, not foot soldiers, and specifically to assassinate channellers, so it makes some sense that mundane weapons--loud ones--would be one way to kill them. Tossing one in a big blender might work, too.

 

I think the interesting part will be how Mat traps it, since that thing is awful slippery. I think the gholam would still have to be semi-immobilized for explosives to work, because just getting caught by concussion and shrapnel probably wouldn't be enough.

 

-- dwn

[WMTom]

I think it is plausible for Mat to let Elayne study the Medallion. While studying the medallion, Elayne can repoduce those weaves. She might then turn those weaves onto Mat's odd spear (no way I spell that without reference). Thus creating the only weapon capable of killing the Gholam.

 

Would the plural of Gholam be Gholem?

[Luckers]

I think it is plausible for Mat to let Elayne study the Medallion. While studying the medallion, Elayne can repoduce those weaves. She might then turn those weaves onto Mat's odd spear (no way I spell that without reference). Thus creating the only weapon capable of killing the Gholam.

 

Would the plural of Gholam be Gholem?

 

The plural of Gholam would be 'oh crap'.

[Jimmy]

Oh crap lol

That is damned funny

[csarmi]

It is gholam, actually - according to RJ.

[KefkaPalazzo]

I imagine that Hotncold is right. Mat will allow Elayne to study his medallion on the condition that she duplicates it as a weapon he can use. Even if she had taken the oath, she is not making a weapon "for one man to kill another". In approaching Elayne, he has absolutely no intention to use the weapon she makes to kill a person. Knowing Mat, he will likely throw whatever it is away after 86ing the gholam anyway.

[The Fisher King]

Would a Cannon Blast kill the Gholam???

 

 

 

Fish

[Sharaman]

I imagine that Hotncold is right. Mat will allow Elayne to study his medallion on the condition that she duplicates it as a weapon he can use. Even if she had taken the oath, she is not making a weapon "for one man to kill another". In approaching Elayne, he has absolutely no intention to use the weapon she makes to kill a person. Knowing Mat, he will likely throw whatever it is away after 86ing the gholam anyway.

Elayne's never taken the oaths - she would have no problem making a weapon for anyone to kill anyone.

In this particular instance, it's difficult to see how a weapon, based on whatever the foxhead does, could be used to kill a man apart from stuffing it down his throat and choking him perhaps.

[KefkaPalazzo]

I imagine that Hotncold is right. Mat will allow Elayne to study his medallion on the condition that she duplicates it as a weapon he can use. Even if she had taken the oath, she is not making a weapon "for one man to kill another". In approaching Elayne, he has absolutely no intention to use the weapon she makes to kill a person. Knowing Mat, he will likely throw whatever it is away after 86ing the gholam anyway.

Elayne's never taken the oaths - she would have no problem making a weapon for anyone to kill anyone.

In this particular instance, it's difficult to see how a weapon, based on whatever the foxhead does, could be used to kill a man apart from stuffing it down his throat and choking him perhaps.

 

The only problem I could possibly see (the only reason I brought the oath up at all) is if she, like Egwene was trying to live like she had taken them, regardless of whether she did or not, but that's kinda beside the point, because she would see the need either way.

 

As far as a weapon, I was thinking just a sharpened piece of steel with the medallion's ter'angreal-ness (yes I just made that word up) would be possible, but I never was too clear on Elayne's copying ability. Does she turn already existing objects into angreal, or do the new angreal just pop into the world from nothing? If it's the latter, I figure my theory is out the window.

[Jimmy]

That is what I was going to say. She wouldnt make anything that a man could use to kill another man

Just look at power wrought blades. They could be made to kill trollocs bt nothing stops it from being run through a person

[nwash_10]

That is what I was going to say. She wouldnt make anything that a man could use to kill another man

Just look at power wrought blades. They could be made to kill trollocs bt nothing stops it from being run through a person

 

Yeah, but weren't pretty much all fhe power wrought blades created during the Age of Legends? Or at least pre Three Oath AS.

[Luckers]

I'm beginning to think the plan might be as simple as Mat luring the gholam somewhere and blowing him up. Although here is a thought--Elayne has the 'pistol' version of a shocklance, which doesn't seem to use the power at all. Potential weapon?

[The Fisher King]

I'm beginning to think the plan might be as simple as Mat luring the gholam somewhere and blowing him up. Although here is a thought--Elayne has the 'pistol' version of a shocklance, which doesn't seem to use the power at all. Potential weapon?

 

I like that idea. I like it alot. I'd like it even more if I didn't have this sneaking suspicion that the Gholam will be Offed by something that has gotten ALOT of screentime in the series so far. Examples: The Medallion, a Gateway, one of Aludra's 'Dragons'/Cannons etc...

 

JMOAA (Just my opinion as always)

 

 

Fish

[Cut Strand]

Isn't there a reference in book 6 or 7 that there are 6 gholams, 3 'male' and 3 'female', and that even the forsaken were uneasy around them?

 

Of course, i could be totally wrong / insane.

There were 4 gholam made. 2 in the form of men, and 2 in the form of women.

I imagine that Hotncold is right. Mat will allow Elayne to study his medallion on the condition that she duplicates it as a weapon he can use. Even if she had taken the oath, she is not making a weapon "for one man to kill another". In approaching Elayne, he has absolutely no intention to use the weapon she makes to kill a person. Knowing Mat, he will likely throw whatever it is away after 86ing the gholam anyway.

If I wanted a fox medallion like weapon for use against the gholam, it would be as a chain lasso. It might be able to pull free, but I think the burning sensation will mess with its concentration.

 

The real question I see is "Is the clothing a gholam wears just clothing or actually a part of it?" If it is literal clothing, then touching the medallion (or to similar object) to its clothes probably doesn't burn it, so a chain would have to be wrapped around the neck or wrist.

 

I could see the value of an ashendarei with the medallions property (the gholam practically laughs off physical attempts to kill it, so it might not even try to dodge), but Mat already has a power negating item, I don't thing he really needs a second permanent one.

 

I think Mat will probably just shove the medallion against the gholam then do his best to hold it down until a hole is burned through it. Who knows what is inside a gholam. Maybe simply penetrating it (making it "spring a leak") is enough to kill it.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Isn't there a reference in book 6 or 7 that there are 6 gholams, 3 'male' and 3 'female', and that even the forsaken were uneasy around them?

 

Of course, i could be totally wrong / insane.

There were 4 gholam made. 2 in the form of men, and 2 in the form of women.

 

 

Actually, Mightyshug is correct, there were 3 male and 3 female Gholam created.

 

Birgitte tells Mat of them in aCoS Chapter 39: Promises to Keep.

[Cut Strand]

Isn't there a reference in book 6 or 7 that there are 6 gholams, 3 'male' and 3 'female', and that even the forsaken were uneasy around them?

 

Of course, i could be totally wrong / insane.

There were 4 gholam made. 2 in the form of men, and 2 in the form of women.

 

 

Actually, Mightyshug is correct, there were 3 male and 3 female Gholam created.

 

Birgitte tells Mat of them in aCoS Chapter 39: Promises to Keep.

You are absolutely right.

 

Is there a sheepish emoticon? is about as close as it gets.

 

Does anyone really think 2 or more survived? I get the argument about killings on different sides of the Westlands in close succession, but multiple gholams seems like giving Mat his very own pseudo-forsaken to hunt down. I think for the sake of "there are just two books left" we won't find out for certain (except maybe in a Forsaken PoV against Mat gets the one in Andor) if all of the gholam are gone.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Isn't there a reference in book 6 or 7 that there are 6 gholams, 3 'male' and 3 'female', and that even the forsaken were uneasy around them?

 

Of course, i could be totally wrong / insane.

There were 4 gholam made. 2 in the form of men, and 2 in the form of women.

 

 

Actually, Mightyshug is correct, there were 3 male and 3 female Gholam created.

 

Birgitte tells Mat of them in aCoS Chapter 39: Promises to Keep.

You are absolutely right.

 

Is there a sheepish emoticon? is about as close as it gets.

 

Does anyone really think 2 or more survived? I get the argument about killings on different sides of the Westlands in close succession, but multiple gholams seems like giving Mat his very own pseudo-forsaken to hunt down. I think for the sake of "there are just two books left" we won't find out for certain (except maybe in a Forsaken PoV against Mat gets the one in Andor) if all of the gholam are gone.

 

haha, if there was, I would use it ALOT!

 

As for the others, I think there are 2 Gholams. 3 at the absolute maximum. probably only even one. The Shadow would not put a spare 2-5 gholams to waste, they are dreadfully efficiant. Just look at what the one we know of has done.

 

My guess is that the others are either 1. Inside various stasis boxes buried under mountains/sea or currently unfound. or 2. Dead. they can only live a "natural" life of 5-600 years max. So the AoL could ahve managed to kill some, some were not stored in stasis boxes thus dying in their "natural" time, or Ishamael could have unleashed some in the Trolloc Wars/Hawkwing or any other time he was partially free. they would die after 5-600 years, so would not be still living.

[Jimmy]

I think there could still b only 1 gholam. Marching alone to cadmium would take about 10 days for a person. I'm guessing the gholum could make it in half that time

So it depends on how many days mat has been there. I think he has been there 5 days already since thom mentions him being attacked 3 days ago. That makes 4 days. 1 day to show up and rest

I think there is only 1 gholum

[Shadowpat]

You all are forgetting the most important point about the gholam that was burned by Mat's medallion, it said that the medallion was the only thing IT had ever known that could hurt/harm it. This doesn't take into account that other gholams could have been killed or hurt by other means that this particular gholam doesn't know about. Keeping that in mind there may have been other ways to kill the gholams that no one even remembers, even the gholams themselves. That would open the door to using silver, explosives or several other means.

[NetSlider]

It's really easy to kill gholam. Especially if you channel. The trick, just as with Mat's medallion, one should not try to channel AT IT but instead do it indirectly. We know that gholam must eat, so one can start them. Say you have a steel box or a well sealed room that has no opening what so ever and made of steel as well. Another idea is freeze it. Have it wet and than channel at the WATER and not gholam. Natural process will do the trick. Or surround it with fire (let's say 50 yards in each direction all around it) and than start moving more fire towards the middle (but not channeling at gholam). I mean there are literally dozens and dozens of ways to kill the thing. The reason why it never faced them because every time it wanted to kill AS the first impulsive reaction of the channeler was to channel directly at it (air, fire and such). Indirectly it will work - remember Mat and Rhavin's lightning?

[Shadowpat]

Keep in mind though, the foxhead medallion is also made of silver. It's possible a silver blade could kill a gholam.

[AnthonyJamesEnglish]

The problem with all these comments for explosives and other attacks without the medalion is that when mat fought it in the building mat stabbed it multiple times and it did NOTHING. there was no injury at all. so im assuming though it be only a small leap that most other physical attacks would be useless. This would rule out explosives, and i also think indirect magic attacks too. Indirect fire may work but it moves so fast i doubt that it would much effect.

 

I like the idea that Elayne or someone capable of channeling for her would create or have a weapon that may work. I also think that Elayne will use herself as bait for the Gholum. I mean comeon she seems to think she cant die till she gives birth so i can see her being stupid enough to do it. Either that or mat will meet Elayne and then the Gholum will turn up and attack.

[NetSlider]

The problem with all these comments for explosives and other attacks without the medalion is that when mat fought it in the building mat stabbed it multiple times and it did NOTHING. there was no injury at all. so im assuming though it be only a small leap that most other physical attacks would be useless. This would rule out explosives, and i also think indirect magic attacks too. Indirect fire may work but it moves so fast i doubt that it would much effect.

 

I like the idea that Elayne or someone capable of channeling for her would create or have a weapon that may work. I also think that Elayne will use herself as bait for the Gholum. I mean comeon she seems to think she cant die till she gives birth so i can see her being stupid enough to do it. Either that or mat will meet Elayne and then the Gholum will turn up and attack.

 

The obvious way would be isolation and starvation as we know that gholam needs food.

[TreeJoe]

I really like the idea of starvation. Here's why:

 

• 
   
  
• Mat is forming a plan
  
• Based upon the entire book series, Mat is not going to get any tips on killing the Gholam from anyone except perhaps Birgitte or, through study of his ter'angreal, Elayne - Does Mat even know that Elayne has created Ter'angreal
  
• Mat's plan is probably going to work
  
• Mat dislikes the one power and is unlikely to use it - one of the great features of his character is his ability to wreak absolute havoc with regular soldiers/materials and superior tactics, even against armies with channelers and flying scouts
  
• Around the time Mat forms a plan, he thinks to himself how Gholam's feed off fresh blood and NEED too. I think starvation is looking likely. And starvation simply involves trapping something - a box, or possibly even a big hole in the ground.
  

 

The one other possibility that I haven't seen is that somehow Mat takes control of the Gholam and gets him to fight for the Light. Here's why I think this COULD be in the stars: The gholam, several books back, thinks to himself how he could see a time where he'd no longer have to obey his masters. I honestly cannot remember the quote exactly, but the sentiment I got was that the Gholam was seeking a way to stop being commanded by it's owner(s).

 

Lastly, I don't think physical punishment of the Gholam will accomplish anything. It has no bones, doesn't bleed, can conform it's body into different sizes, has immense strength....but it hungers. Oh Light does it hunger...