Mat's Plans

[Luckers]

Requested by the Fisher King, for the discussion of Mat's plan about the Gholam

 

He had a score to settle with that gholam. The innocents it had slaughtered while lurking around Ebou Dar were bad enough, and Mat had not forgotten Nalesean and the five Redarms who had been murdered either. Bloody ashes, it had had enough to answer for already. Then it had taken Tylin.

 

Mat removed a hand from his pocket, feeling at the foxhead medallion, resting—as always—against his chest. He was tired of running from that monster. A plan started to form in his mind, accompanied by the rattling of dice. He tried to banish the image of the Queen lying in bonds Mat himself had tied, her head ripped free. There would have been so much blood. The gholam lived on fresh blood.

[Crael123]

I have wondered (since mat is in Caemlyn) if Brigitte will kill it. do you remember the silver arrow that she came with her out of TAR? maybe it has similar properties as the medallion and Brigitte will save the day. doubt it tho. he may do a terminator 3 and shove it down the gholms throat.

[Luckers]

I have wondered (since mat is in Caemlyn) if Brigitte will kill it. do you remember the silver arrow that she came with her out of TAR? maybe it has similar properties as the medallion and Brigitte will save the day. doubt it tho. he may do a terminator 3 and shove it down the gholms throat.

 

The arrow was used to make Moghedien's a'dam. And I think that the effect the medallion has on the gholam is more than just because it is silver. Silver is relatively commen, and the Gholam states that that was the first time it has been hurt. Is it even possible with all those its killed it has never brushed against a silver ring, or necklace?

 

I think its more a result of interacting Anti-Power Fields.

[Duskfire]

I wouldnt be surprised if he was going to try and lure the Gholam into the Tower of Ghenjei and potentially just leave it behind if he wasnt able to kill it. I cant see anyone else trying to kill it except for Mat, and I cant see Mat giving up his medallion permanantly like that. Don't forget, he got it because he wants to be free of Aes Sedai, and going by his conversion with Verin that hasnt changed. Besides, if you were high on the Forsakens hit list, wouldnt you want something that made you close to immune to magic? :P

[Luckers]

I wouldnt be surprised if he was going to try and lure the Gholam into the Tower of Ghenjei and potentially just leave it behind if he wasnt able to kill it. I cant see anyone else trying to kill it except for Mat, and I cant see Mat giving up his medallion permanantly like that. Don't forget, he got it because he wants to be free of Aes Sedai, and going by his conversion with Verin that hasnt changed. Besides, if you were high on the Forsakens hit list, wouldnt you want something that made you close to immune to magic? :P

 

Verin's Letter.

 

Dear Mat.

 

There is a thing called a Gholam. This is how you kill it. [exposition]

 

Love Verin.

[GB]

I wouldnt be surprised if he was going to try and lure the Gholam into the Tower of Ghenjei and potentially just leave it behind if he wasnt able to kill it. I cant see anyone else trying to kill it except for Mat, and I cant see Mat giving up his medallion permanantly like that. Don't forget, he got it because he wants to be free of Aes Sedai, and going by his conversion with Verin that hasnt changed. Besides, if you were high on the Forsakens hit list, wouldnt you want something that made you close to immune to magic? :P

 

Verin's Letter.

 

Dear Mat.

 

There is a thing called a Gholam. This is how you kill it. [exposition]

 

Love Verin.

 

haha and there is a little package for you at the WT, thought you might need it soon

[nwash_10]

Now that we now Aginor used the TP. Which I'm assuming was used in the creation of all of the Dark Ones little minions(including the Gholam). Itmakes sense to me that the Gholam can probably be hurt by the TP.

 

With that said, I still think that Mat is going to off the Gholam. I think it would be cool to see how it reacts to the TP.

 

Just some thoughts.

[dwn]

Some ideas:

 

The gholam is following Mat. Therefore the plan likely uses Mat as bait for whatever trap/ambush kills the thing. It also wants Elayne and Nynaeve, but Mat is still the likely target.

 

In order to kill the gholam with the fox head medallion, Mat is going to need some way of immobilizing it. Now it squeezed under a door to get at Harid Fel, and through a 12" hole when fleeing from Mat in WH, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's completely fluid... just squishy. A net likely wouldn't work to trap it, but a heavy iron/steel box with a close-fitting lid might work. Stab wounds don't seem to harm it (much), but skewering it might still work.

 

Mat knows that weaves of the power melt off the gholam, just like with his medallion. Now, he also knows that indirect channeling can bypass the medallion's protection, so his plan could involve assuming the same (likely) weakness in the gholam.

 

Mat has access to explosives and other incendiaries. These might be a good non-channeling way of hurting it.

 

-- dwn

[perrin51]

A net likely wouldn't work to trap it, but a heavy iron/steel box with a close-fitting lid might work.

 

Mat has access to explosives and other incendiaries. These might be a good non-channeling way of hurting it.

 

-- dwn

I like tha idea of iron box and lid. Put that in a nice hot forge fire and melt it to slag. Then see how Mr. Squishy like the heat.

 

Another thought is a grenade in the mouth or a Dragon at close range.

[The Dirty Landry]

I think there is more than one Gholam running around. I don't believe the one that killed Herid Fel was the one sent after Elayne and Mat during ACoS. Remember, in Winter's Heart, Mat is telling Noal how he had faced a Gholam in Shadar Logoth. This strongly indicates that Ishamael had control of one during the Trolloc Wars.

 

So a big question is, is if there is more than one gholam running around...is the one in Caemlyn under Moridin's control or is it the one that was controlled by Sammael?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think there is more than one Gholam running around. I don't believe the one that killed Herid Fel was the one sent after Elayne and Mat during ACoS. Remember, in Winter's Heart, Mat is telling Noal how he had faced a Gholam in Shadar Logoth. This strongly indicates that Ishamael had control of one during the Trolloc Wars.

 

So a big question is, is if there is more than one gholam running around...is the one in Caemlyn under Moridin's control or is it the one that was controlled by Sammael?

 

Since when did Mat say anything about a Gholam in Shadar Logoth? I must have missed this, do you have a quote?

[Demiandre]

I think there is more than one Gholam running around. I don't believe the one that killed Herid Fel was the one sent after Elayne and Mat during ACoS. Remember, in Winter's Heart, Mat is telling Noal how he had faced a Gholam in Shadar Logoth. This strongly indicates that Ishamael had control of one during the Trolloc Wars.

 

So a big question is, is if there is more than one gholam running around...is the one in Caemlyn under Moridin's control or is it the one that was controlled by Sammael?

 

Since when did Mat say anything about a Gholam in Shadar Logoth? I must have missed this, do you have a quote?

Mat told Noal he saw somehing like what the Gholam did in Shadar Logoth. Mat was refering to Mordeth shadowingly crossing walls. That wasn't a gholam.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think there is more than one Gholam running around. I don't believe the one that killed Herid Fel was the one sent after Elayne and Mat during ACoS. Remember, in Winter's Heart, Mat is telling Noal how he had faced a Gholam in Shadar Logoth. This strongly indicates that Ishamael had control of one during the Trolloc Wars.

 

So a big question is, is if there is more than one gholam running around...is the one in Caemlyn under Moridin's control or is it the one that was controlled by Sammael?

 

Since when did Mat say anything about a Gholam in Shadar Logoth? I must have missed this, do you have a quote?

Mat told Noal he saw somehing like what the Gholam did in Shadar Logoth. Mat was refering to Mordeth shadowingly crossing walls. That wasn't a gholam.

 

Ahhh yeahh, I was going to say.

I recall the scene now.

[Hotncold]

Two gholams or one? Seems too coincidental that the gholam's victim was found right after Mat came to Camelyn. Its clearly following him, but how did it get to Camelyn so fast? Verin saved him 20 days of marching by opening a gateway, if the gholam could just run that fast it would have been able to catch Mat long ago when he was with Vana Luca's traveling circus. Maybe a Foresaken sensed Verin channelling the gateway, went to investigate and read the residue of the gateway. Summoned the gholam, and made a gateway for him to follow.

 

My theory on Mat's plans:

 

Mat's plans have to start with talking to Bridgette. She knows more about the gholam than anyone. He'll want to and warn her and Elayne about the gholam. And see if Bridgette knows anything about the Tower of Ghenji. He's got to want to start there, and Elayne won't put off seeing him when she finds out the gholam's in town. He knows the only thing discovered to harm the gholam is his medallion. He lets Elayne study it, but while the cord attached to it is still around his neck of course. She's able to make a ter'angreal with properties that can harm the gholam from what she learns of his medallion. A knife, spear, arrow head, or sword? Mat stuck the gholam with a thrown knife, he's got to be thinking along those lines even though I can find no evidence that Mat is aware of Elayne's ability to clone ter'angreal.

 

 

His plan won't include Aldura's cannons. He's never seen the gholam from far off, it sneaks around almost like a grey man, you only see it when its right in front of you. Not like he can tell Aldura, gholam at 300 paces, fire the dragon at it. I also don't see him keeping an Aes Sedai close by, ready to drop a safe on its head or some such. The iron box idea and forge has merit as far as a way to kill it, but how do you get it in the box? The gholam is an ambush artist, its gonna surprise you. You just can't put a trap door somewhere and expect the gholam to step on it and fall in the box, then quick close the lid.

[a_lily_in_winter]

How to kill a gholum? Here are some fun ways using the power and booby traps. Mat could for instance be sleeping somewhere where the gholum has to pass through these traps.

 

1. A 'canon' of highly compressed air loaded with rock whose end is plugged with a weave of air and spirit that is connected to a 'tripwire' of spirit. Gholum touches the tripwire destroying entire weave and unstopping canon.

 

2. Giant pit covered by weave of air and illusion. (Precaution can be taken with weave such as making it too big to jump over and edge of weave with dirt so that the Gholam doesn't touch the weave too early.

 

3. Gateway inside doorway where Gholam can't touch any of the weaves. Gateway leads to someplace else. An illusion of Mat sleeping is added on other side of gateway.

 

4. Giant pit over horizontal gateway. (2. and 3. combined.)

 

5. Wall of spirit and air holding up huge boulder.

[TreeJoe]

Mat knows Gholam exist to kill Aes Sedai and they feed off human blood.

 

My guess is he's going to surround himself with Aes Sedai and human blood :)

[The Dirty Landry]

Yeah, I did misread that part in Winter's Heart. However, I still think there is probably more than one out there. As for what his plan is...I agree that he will probably lure it somewhere where he feels there is a more level playing field. Where better than ToG?

[The Fisher King]

AWESOME Thread!!!

 

 

 

Fish

[Mightyshug]

Isn't there a reference in book 6 or 7 that there are 6 gholams, 3 'male' and 3 'female', and that even the forsaken were uneasy around them?

 

Of course, i could be totally wrong / insane.

[Jimmy]

Mat's plans have to start with talking to Bridgette.

 

i believe Birgette's memories of gholum have faded. at the end of Winter's Heart (i think) when Mat is trying to explain to the sea folk why they should leave Ebou Dar, doesn't it mention that all of Mat's information had come from Birgette, but that she doesn't remember any of it? I know she remembers nothing before the founding of the White Tower. I believe the gholum were created before the founding.

 

there were originally 6 gholum created; 3 fashioned to look like men and 3 to look like women. So its possible that more then one gholum are after Mat. We don't have a timeline for how long he has been in Andor, so its possible that the gholum ran there. I can't find my WH book so i can't check on how fast the gholum can move. But i imagine it could probably move twice as fast as a person and i doubt it gets tired. The trip from where Verin gated Mat to Caemlyn was 20 days for an army to travel. the Trip would take a little over a week traveling on the roads for a person with spare horses to make. that is 7-10 days. I'm betting the gholum could have made it in 3-5 days since it wouldn't have to stop because it was worried about tripping in the dark. Then you have to consider how much faster that trip would be if it doesn't stick to the roads and just runs straight at Caemlyn. I'm guessing the gholum made it in 3 days.

 

The next question is, how is it tracking Mat? GPS? How far is the gholum able to 'sense' its target? We know from the escape from Ebou Dar ahead of the Seanchan invasion, that the gholum could feel the location of the other end of the gate. Its possible that the gholum felt where the gate opened up and just ran for that spot until it got close enough to 'feel' where Mat and his army are camped. Then it was able to 'sniff' out his location and which tent was his; which is why the second chapter with Mat in it will start with him discovering that the gholum has killed his man servent.

[The Fisher King]

I thought of one thing that might be helpul to this conversation but I can't remember the details. I *THINK* in ACOS, Cauthon relied on his Numemories to give a bit of exposition to the gang on the ways (the ONLY ways, iirc) that Gholam could be killed.....Anyone remember the specifics??? - My ACOS copy isn't handy atm.

 

 

 

Fish

[Sharaman]

No, Mat had little clue about it. Brigitte told him what she knew, which he repeated to random women (Nyn, Elayne, Seafolk, Tylin) and there was no mention of any known way to kill it. The only thing that has ever hurt it according to its own PoV is the foxhead medallion.

[Rufae]

I wonder what would happen if you put an adam on the Gholum? Being a construct of the OP, would that then allow the handler to control the Gholum?

[General Cauthon]

No, Mat had little clue about it. Brigitte told him what she knew, which he repeated to random women (Nyn, Elayne, Seafolk, Tylin) and there was no mention of any known way to kill it. The only thing that has ever hurt it according to its own PoV is the foxhead medallion.

 

That, and starvation.

Sammael found his Gholam in a Stasis box, perfectly preserved for more than 3000 years. No Aes Sedai has ever heard about Gholams, which means that the other 5 probably are dead. It has been stated several times that it feeds on fresh blood. The other Gholams may have lost axcess to people to feed on during the Breaking, when most of the population were destroyed, leaving large landmasses uninhabitated.

 

Which means locking it in a box, and keep it locked up for a few days might do the trick.

[Capering Capers]

Just a thought triggered by the following by Duskfire:

 

I wouldn't be surprised if he was going to try and lure the Gholam into the Tower of Ghenjei and potentially just leave it behind if he wasn't able to kill it.

 

Now if the Gholam did follow and then inadvertently got some wishes from our friends in/behind the tower (i know this is a pretty big if with him being shadow spawn and all) do you think it might ask for freedom? I seem to recall it wanted to be free and it getting freed would make an interesting way to get it of Mat's trail.