Super Spoiler PoV

[bjsm]

I am SO glad that Graendal did not die in Rand's attack. She has been made out to be so smart - it would have been real lame for his tactic to work.

 

Not sure how I feel by the level of "surprise" she exibited by his tatic. With all the clues of what he was up to, I would not have been expecting her to be so surprised. Also, with him boroadcasting that he was specifically looking for her, it seemed odd to not have anything that mentioned her planting a spy in his proximity - even just one just in the household staff where he was currently staying.

 

I did like seeing her scared nearly senseless by Rand's "cleverness". To me surprised and scared are two different things. Graendal has always been one that is easy to scare and this attack aimed directly at her, even if it missed, would surely "scare" her.

 

 

Also great that Rand did get a Forsaken and a BA in the deal. I can't think of anyone I would rather go than Aran'gar and Delana.

 

 

Although the funny thought is that she was mostly impressed with the fact that he'd tracked her, when that was mostly Nynaeve's doing.

 

I thought this was appropriate. The Forsaken routinely underestimate and discount the Third-Agers. Rand, being the Dragon Reborn, is more than that, but Nynaeve, in particular, and others as well, are mostly ignored. Even though Graendal now sees Nynaeve as a serious threat, she still doesn't get just how good Nynaeve is because she isn't willing to credit a Third Ager with such ability.

[sdelu]

I really disliked this whole sequence.

 

I found it so absurdly convenient that after books and books and books another Forsaken aside from Ishamael was finally granted access to the TP (and actually wanted to use it...), which naturally has a secret weave that they can use to spy on people with, which she uses to find Rand and see he has the access key, which somehow after 12 books of Rand refusing to harm women she realizes means he's going to balefire her.

 

Right.

 

Actually, the whole scene is really absurd. It reads more like fanfic than anything else (maybe because it sounds just like all the theories that people came up with last year), out to prove a point that Graendal really is a super-genius. I mean, we had 12 books to learn that firsthand, and we only get to see it after she was finally supposed to die? Pfah. I for one am really sick of these useless Forsaken staying alive.

 

So instead we get the death of a Forsaken that Rand didn't even know existed and who has already been killed and a black ajah member who has done a similar amount of nothing as the Forsaken.

 

I almost feel betrayed, in a way.

[Rand the Plumber]

Hello! Long time reader, first time poster (well, that's not true; I used to post a looooong time ago when DM was a very different beast).

 

The Graendal reveal was sufficient to shake me from my lethargy and cause me to post. I was one of the nay-sayers, but ooooh, that Graendal! Such a clever little kitten. And it was written very well - both in TGS and here. As others have said: Graendal is scary.

 

It got me wondering about how Graendal might ultimately be defeated, and I think I have an idea (but I'm half way down a nice bottle of wine, so you have been warned). We've seen how meticulously Graendal plans everything. Even her escape plans have escape plans. She's obsessive about it. She has seen Cuendillar Rand, and is scared. He's much more dangerous than she had ever imagined. That will feature in all her future plans: how to avoid/manipulate/trap Rand the big bad matri-coital channeller of doom, teetering at the edge of the chasm of total insanity. The man who doesn't even blink before channelling enough balefire to rend the Pattern beyond repair.

 

...only he's not like that any more. The healing has begun. It may take some time, but Rand is no longer a taut string balanced on a knife edge and ready to explode at the drop of a hat (to murder my metaphors by dropping them into boiling water). After all this time underestimating Rand, I wonder if Graendal might now overestimate him. I think we will see, either in ToM or (more likely) in MoL that Graendal weaves a cunning web to capture Cuendillar Rand, only to discover that Just Plain Rand doesn't so much defeat her trap as walk right around it.

 

I'm looking forward to finding out.

[Chareos]

True Power is not able to be sensed, even by other users.

 

I found it interesting how casually she used it though....previously, it had been said to be scary to use due to it's addictive nature. It made it seemed feared to be used by the Forsaken, though obviously it seems like an incredible tool. Her POV was MUCH more natural about using the True Power, and she showed that Aginor used it extensively....which makes alot of sense.

Graendal says(or rather thinks) specifically that "Male or female, no one could sense or see the weaves- not unless he or she had been granted the priveledge of channeling the TP"

 

To me, this could be a little forshadowing that Graendal will try a tactic a little more bold than she is known for, like other have suggested. Possibly something Semirhage-like(in terms of concealing yourself and infiltrating to get close enough to strike), but using the TP, which Rand would be able to sense and react to, as he is able to use the TP, even if only by proxy through his connection to Moridin(if that's the case).

[subwoofer]

Banzai!!!

 

Man was this cool!

 

And Loial...

and Galad...

 

and...

 

gahhhh

soo stoked!

 

Woof™.

[subwoofer]

Can they channel the True Power in Far Madding?

 

Woof™.

[Duskfire]

I really disliked this whole sequence.

 

I found it so absurdly convenient that after books and books and books another Forsaken aside from Ishamael was finally granted access to the TP (and actually wanted to use it...), which naturally has a secret weave that they can use to spy on people with, which she uses to find Rand and see he has the access key, which somehow after 12 books of Rand refusing to harm women she realizes means he's going to balefire her.

 

Right.

 

Actually, the whole scene is really absurd. It reads more like fanfic than anything else (maybe because it sounds just like all the theories that people came up with last year), out to prove a point that Graendal really is a super-genius. I mean, we had 12 books to learn that firsthand, and we only get to see it after she was finally supposed to die? Pfah. I for one am really sick of these useless Forsaken staying alive.

 

So instead we get the death of a Forsaken that Rand didn't even know existed and who has already been killed and a black ajah member who has done a similar amount of nothing as the Forsaken.

 

I almost feel betrayed, in a way.

 

Yeah those are sort of my thoughts as well. Not the whole useless Forsaken bit, but it was pretty damn convient :P Not to mention how Delana just happened to be good at compulsion.

[Alanna]

Well, I loved the whole prologue. I even enjoyed the Perrin bit. Sort of.

 

I never really got caught up in the whole debate about whether Graendal was alive or not, but I guess I'd kind of just assumed she was dead. So I was really shocked to find out she was alive! And I agree, I'm glad she is; she is too crafty to go out so easily. She's definitely going to do some damage in ToM.

 

I didn't necessarily feel like there were huge indicators that Min is going to die, even though it seems like Graendal might target her. Which is odd, because I actually have always thought that Min would die, but I just didn't feel that for certain when I read this. I actually wish Graendal would go after Elayne instead, it seems cooler. Maybe she'll actually try to go after both of them, and Avi will show up to save the day

[dwn]

The thing that strikes me the most bizarre about this POV (and many other Forsaken POVs) is that Graendal doesn't seem to know Min's name. You would think that the Forsaken, especially the devious ones, would have the equivalent of 'secret files' on every one of Rand's close companions. Yet we see Lanfear not knowing who Egwene and Aviendha are (after talking to Egwene more than once!), Semirhage (and presumably the others) not knowing Mat and Perrin by sight, etc.

 

Now, Graendal does know who Nynaeve is (somewhat), so perhaps she just ignored anyone who couldn't channel. Still, it seems she should be paying a bit more attention, particularly since she's supposed to be dunking Rand's head in the anguish and frustration well.

 

-- dwn

[StefanR]

the whole prologue, and chapter that was released in Mat's POV seemed so out of place compared to TGS, or the rest of the series. Like it wasn't written by nearly as experienced a writer and had a whole different voice for everything and that person was trying to hard. TGS seemed fine to me, but I hope the rest of he book isn't like this :(

[algspkr]

The thing that strikes me the most bizarre about this POV (and many other Forsaken POVs) is that Graendal doesn't seem to know Min's name. You would think that the Forsaken, especially the devious ones, would have the equivalent of 'secret files' on every one of Rand's close companions. Yet we see Lanfear not knowing who Egwene and Aviendha are (after talking to Egwene more than once!), Semirhage (and presumably the others) not knowing Mat and Perrin by sight, etc.

 

This seems to fit Lanfear, but not Graendal. As for Mat and Perrin, that struck me as Ishameal's overconfidence.

 

Now, Graendal does know who Nynaeve is (somewhat), so perhaps she just ignored anyone who couldn't channel. Still, it seems she should be paying a bit more attention, particularly since she's supposed to be dunking Rand's head in the anguish and frustration well.

 

-- dwn

 

I think Nynaeve will be Graendal's primary target as she is the threat, once Nynaeve has been dealt with she can take Min.

[Duskfire]

The thing that strikes me the most bizarre about this POV (and many other Forsaken POVs) is that Graendal doesn't seem to know Min's name. You would think that the Forsaken, especially the devious ones, would have the equivalent of 'secret files' on every one of Rand's close companions. Yet we see Lanfear not knowing who Egwene and Aviendha are (after talking to Egwene more than once!), Semirhage (and presumably the others) not knowing Mat and Perrin by sight, etc.

 

Now, Graendal does know who Nynaeve is (somewhat), so perhaps she just ignored anyone who couldn't channel. Still, it seems she should be paying a bit more attention, particularly since she's supposed to be dunking Rand's head in the anguish and frustration well.

 

-- dwn

 

Yeah I thought that was weird too. Especially since Min has a rather unique ability - you think that alone would make her known to the Forsaken. Heck, if I were a Chosen she would be high on my target list, with or without her connection to Rand purely because of her ability to see the future.

 

It reminded me of when Semiharge didn't know what Mat looked like. Just seems weird that the Forsaken are this uninformed about alot of things that happen in the world. They can talk about events like this and that, but there still seems to be large gaps in their information network.

[The Fisher King]

Well, the predictions that I made in the official ToM prediction page are going to hell already. :P Dammit Graendal!

 

ToM is going to a VERY interesting book. I greatly want to see a Nynaeve or Aviendha showdown versus Graendal. Also, Graendal could be the one that finally takes out Cadsuane. This book is going to get bloody.

 

I have a feeling that this is a VERY accurate prediction.

 

 

 

Fish

[KefkaPalazzo]

Well, if she's just looking to cause havoc, I'd be surprised if she didn't go after Min first. To Graendal, she is the least protected. Rand very likely knows Graendal by sight (he knows all the others), and seeing her alive will cause him to panic. And if I were her, I would drop hints that balefire won't work, so, in the worst case scenario he will just kill normally and let the DO recycle me, so I can try again.

 

Nynaeve does not know what Graendal looks like, so as soon as she sees anyone approaching her own strength, she will know something is wrong. Someone close to her strength means either Alivia, that Sea Folk woman from book 9, Sharina, or a Forsaken. IIRC, she avoids Alivia, so the hypothetical strong woman is very unlikely to be her. The Sea Folk woman is in Andor, and Sharina is currently not strong enough, but she eventually will be. The only remaining option is a Forsaken.

 

Of course, this all takes into account a direct attack. She is more likely to Compel a guard to attack, or a cook to poison meals.

[Duskfire]

Well, if she's just looking to cause havoc, I'd be surprised if she didn't go after Min first. To Graendal, she is the least protected. Rand very likely knows Graendal by sight (he knows all the others), and seeing her alive will cause him to panic. And if I were her, I would drop hints that balefire won't work, so, in the worst case scenario he will just kill normally and let the DO recycle me, so I can try again.

 

Nynaeve does not know what Graendal looks like, so as soon as she sees anyone approaching her own strength, she will know something is wrong. Someone close to her strength means either Alivia, that Sea Folk woman from book 9, Sharina, or a Forsaken. IIRC, she avoids Alivia, so the hypothetical strong woman is very unlikely to be her. The Sea Folk woman is in Andor, and Sharina is currently not strong enough, but she eventually will be. The only remaining option is a Forsaken.

 

Of course, this all takes into account a direct attack. She is more likely to Compel a guard to attack, or a cook to poison meals.

 

Well Graendal could alter her strength, like Lanfear has done, and presumably Mesaana, so approaching wouldnt be too much of a problem. I cant see her going after Min though; Min and Rand are always together. I would say Nynaeve. Going by her thoughts in the prologue, she would view Nynaeve as a big threat due to Nynaeves skill at unravelling compulsions.

[DemandredFO]

I'm officially taking a break from Dragonmount because all this Brandon-bashing is getting on my nerves. Chow

[lilltempest]

Seeing how she has the TP now, she can strike at Nyn or Min before anyone is even aware since no one can sense TP channeling. Since Rand can use teh TP through his link with Moridin, can he possibly sense TP usage? Maybe tha tis how the attack on Min/Nyn is thwarted.

 

I'd almost be willing to bet that one of Cadsuane-Sue's "unknown" ter'angreal will let her know when the True Power is being channeled nearby.

[lilltempest]

Gotcha now. Yeah quite likely or maybe Cads might try to make up for Semirhage, doesn't want that episode tarnishing her reputation. So she might even iniciate the confrontation.

 

And Mr Millen this is my real name.

 

Now that would be awesome. I'd love to see Cadsuane try her "I'm superior" crap with Graendal like she did with Semirhage only to have Graendal wipe her own butt with Caddy's corpse. Then I'd like to see Nyn take Graendal down hard. Nyn is well overdue for some serious butt-kickery and she needs to show all of those craphead Aes Sedai who worship Cadsuane that she's ten times better than Caddy ever hoped to be. The woman went toe to toe with Moghedien - twice - when she hadn't even reached her full potential and managed to leash the woman in Moggy's own "domain" of TAR. It's time Nyn stopped being crapped on and started getting some much deserved respect. Taking Graendal down would be a great way to do it.

[itsjustme]

I'm officially taking a break from Dragonmount because all this Brandon-bashing is getting on my nerves. Chow

 

First of all, let me say I agree with you. Personally, I think Brandon has done a much better job than I expected going into this. And for the most part, even when some of the stuff felt different (i.e. the "Legends" chapter from TGS) it was still fun to read. But for future reference, it's "Ciao" not "Chow." Then again, with all the "Woofing" going on, maybe you had it in your mind it was time to feed the dog.

 

Now as for Graendal's target, I've long been worried that Min could bite the dust before this is over. The one argument against this is Nicola's fortelling, but while "the lion sword" and "the dedicated spear" almost certainly refer to Elayne and Aviendha, "she who sees beyond" could very well be Egwene, not Min. Throw into that equation the "three on a boat" and I'm even more inclined to go with Egwene. Remember the time she skimmed Lan toward Ebu Dar? That chapter went out of its way to have her explain how everyone had their own preferred platform for skimming. Egwene's was referred to first as a "ferry" and then as a "barge." Call it either one, it's a boat. So I'm thinking Egwene will be taking Elayne, Aviendha, and Rand/Rand's body (depending on how you interpret "he who is dead yet lives") somewhere by skimming. And I'm scared that may mean Min is dead by that point. Of course, I think she has to live long enough to figure out just what Rand is supposed to do at the last battle first, so maybe she'll survive until the next book. And that leads to my whole "a treasure as great as the Bowl (of the Winds)" from the wise one dreamwalkers was the little librarian ter'angreal Aviendha figured out to use in "A Different Skill" from KoD that will help Min in this, but that's a whole other story. Well, other than Min having to live long enough to get to that point. I think sometime after she does this, someone's going to kill her, and Graendal would seem the most likely suspect after reading this prologue.

[dwn]

Though I think it highly unlikely, it -would- be interesting to see the third woman in the prophesy be someone other than Min. Heck, going by the Arthurian naming, Moiraine should really be one of the 'three Queens' accompanying him at the end.

 

Graendal seems more concerned with Nynaeve at the moment, though, so I do wonder what could happen there. Years ago I speculated (on the newsgroup, I think), that of the Light-side characters, Nynaeve and Perrin were the most likely candidates for turning evil. I based this on the point that both characters were more concerned with their immediate wants than the greater good, which we've certainly seen borne out with Perrin's arc. Nynaeve has matured since then, but I still wonder what would happen were Lan to die, particularly in a pointless battle.

 

A big thing in the War of Power was light-side generals giving into despair and turning to the shadow. This is kinda what happened with Sammael, and Graendal was the one who escorted Tel Janin to Shayol Ghul to swear his oaths. If Graendal really wanted to hurt Rand, she'd capture Nynaeve, turn her, and send her back. A betrayal like that would be far more damaging than a death.

 

It's actually a bit amusing that Graendal feels Nynaeve the big threat here, because Min's philosophizing it likely a bigger danger to the Shadow in the long run.

 

-- dwn

[Grape_Ape]

True Power is not able to be sensed, even by other users.

 

 

Not true. "Page" 17/46 on the Nook, middle column, first paragraph. "...no one could see or sense the weaves - not unless he or she had been granted the privilege of channeling the True Power."

[Guest nitika]

I've long been worried that Min could bite the dust before this is over. The one argument against this is Nicola's fortelling, but while "the lion sword" and "the dedicated spear" almost certainly refer to Elayne and Aviendha, "she who sees beyond" could very well be Egwene, not Min. Throw into that equation the "three on a boat" and I'm even more inclined to go with Egwene. Remember the time she skimmed Lan toward Ebu Dar? That chapter went out of its way to have her explain how everyone had their own preferred platform for skimming. Egwene's was referred to first as a "ferry" and then as a "barge." Call it either one, it's a boat. So I'm thinking Egwene will be taking Elayne, Aviendha, and Rand/Rand's body (depending on how you interpret "he who is dead yet lives") somewhere by skimming. And I'm scared that may mean Min is dead by that point.

 

 

Good catch....you've really got me thinking about it as a possibility but I seriously hope that doesn't happen. Min is the best in the trio!

 

After this Greandeal PoV, anything is possible. My reaction was 1)wtf 2)of course, it's just going to show her dying 3)no way! She is unbelievable! even smarter than I thought!

 

I can't wait for the book (screams in anguish) I'll just have to find out where it's being printed and break in.

[GB]

I don't think Min is going to die, well I don't want her to, she's been among the most loyal and have always stick to Rand no matter what even after the Semi thing.

 

And Graendal might go after Nyn and Min but she will not likely succeed, I hope so.

 

I don't want Min or Nyn to die. I like them both.

 

I always have the impression that Nyn was meant to kick Moghedien's butt. Perhaps Avi will kick Graendal butt.

 

And I did like the prologue except perhaps for Perrin which was a bit of a let down.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I have to say I believed that Graendal was dead for sure, and I would be annoyed if it turned out she was alive.

 

However, this scene did her survival justice.

 

Its one of the few times we actually see the brilliance of the Forsaken. We are lead to believe that they are all but immortal and have knowledge that the current age can only dream of. But most of what we see is them getting fooled by 3rd agers (including Rand) who are fumbling about with the OP.

arr

But this, this demonstrates the true threat of the Forsaken. The only other time we have seen it was with Moggy. in FoH when she owns Liandrin after she got shot by birgitte and healed by chesmal.

 

Graendal's PoV here takes it one step further. All we have seen from most of the Forsaken is self-assured arrogance. All talk and no action. But here we see Graendal's prowess.

 

Even though she is scared out of her mind, she still manages to outplay Rand (if bbarely)

 

For the first time I actually fear for Rand and co. against a Forsaken. Graendal is going to own. She is my second favorite Forsaken after this chapter. Demandred of course, is still the greatest :)

 

[sdelu]

For the first time I actually fear for Rand and co. against a Forsaken. Graendal is going to own. She is my second favorite Forsaken after this chapter. Demandred of course, is still the greatest :)

 

People keep saying this, but I can't help but wonder why it is the "first" time. In the early books (before we find out how useless they are) the threat they represent is palpable. Even after Be'lal is killed they still represent a danger. He was beating Rand, and would have had his hands on Callandor had Moiraine not intervened. And with Lanfear always popping up where she was not wanted... I don't know, in the early books they were a legitimate threat.

 

It's not until several books into the series and several failures by the Forsaken that they become officially useless. I think the turning point for me had to be Sammael's death. All that buildup and the idiot gets killed by some sentient mist. Yawn.

 

 

Anyway, as far as Graendal goes, I really hope she kills off some characters. The main chars outside of Rand have pretty much gotten through the past 2 years without a dent. Really one of the "low points" of the series I think. She has a lot of work to do.