Oliver or Noal?

[soulwatch5]

So judging by the cover art Mat is going to rescue Moiraine in the upcoming book.  Through the cover art it looks like its going to be Mat, Thom and Noal that are entering the tower but I have a feeling Oliver was the third person Moiraine was talking about in her letter.  I'd truly be surprised if Oliver didn't have a big role in this because he is the one that is always playing Snakes and Foxes. And since The Tower Of Ghenjei is suppose to be like a real life Snakes and Foxes game I'd expect Oliver to be there.

 

What are your guys thoughts on this?

[yoniy0]

You're forgetting something. Olver always loses.

[soulwatch5]

But there is something about Noal i don't trust.  Maybe the lack of background history on the character makes me distrust him.

[Durinax]

I would hate for olver to go into there, it would make it seem too muhc of a game and take me out of the book so to speak

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think that it will be Thom, Mat and Noal that go in, as Moiraine's letter says.

 

But Olver will follow them in (breaking the rules)

 

Why Moiraine would not mention this, precisely because, if they knew, they would let him come with them, and he wouldnt really be following them in would he?

 

Thus she says there are things that she "dare not" tell or something along the lines of that.

 

(I am not really convinced by my own theory, but sounds good enough)

[Duskfire]

Mat would never knowingly let Olver come; far too young and Mat is particularly protective of him. Vanin would be next on the list after Noal I would think, or Juluin Sander. Regardless, its almost certainly Noal. Although Olver may sneak in afterwards.

[The Fisher King]

Personally, I like Baird's theory quite a bit actually - Seems right enough to me.

 

 

Fish

[Juggler]

Surely it will be Matt, Noal and Thom because of the 3 rules which must not be broken, that is why Thom has to go - Music, Fire? and Iron - Thom's a fire breathing, musical, knife juggler an expert at strategy (Stones) so capable of out-foxing the foxes and breaking all the rules in one motion

 

Olver coming in wouldn't necessarily break the rules that need to be broken - I think Thom will be the arcitect for the rescue -

 

I reckon Olver is there for Birgitte and not essential for the Tower episode.

[Loophole]

I think that it will be Thom, Mat and Noal that go in, as Moiraine's letter says.

 

But Olver will follow them in (breaking the rules)

 

Why Moiraine would not mention this, precisely because, if they knew, they would let him come with them, and he wouldnt really be following them in would he?

 

Thus she says there are things that she "dare not" tell or something along the lines of that.

 

(I am not really convinced by my own theory, but sounds good enough)

 

It's possible but I am hoping for some old school Farstrider action from Noal. Maybe something will happen that gives him some more of his old self back

[soulwatch5]

 

 

I reckon Olver is there for Birgitte and not essential for the Tower episode.

 

I'm not sure about that but I can see why you would think so.  He could be a reincarnation of her husband but Oliver is too much of a player. Yes I know he is a ugly little kid but since living with Mat and the band he's taken a lot of habits Mat wouldn't like him to have. And the little that we know about Birgitte's husband, he didn't seem that type of person.  Granted there is not a lot of information on him so i can be totally off.  Just my thought.

[DemandredFO]

I'll take mercy on you soulwatch5 since you're new and before someone yells at you because Olver/Gaidal Cain has come up so many times I've lost count.  There's an RJ quote that Olver is not Gaidal Cain.  By the way welcome to the forums

[Lady Beslan]

I think that it will be Thom, Mat and Noal that go in, as Moiraine's letter says.

 

But Olver will follow them in (breaking the rules)

 

Why Moiraine would not mention this, precisely because, if they knew, they would let him come with them, and he wouldnt really be following them in would he?

 

Thus she says there are things that she "dare not" tell or something along the lines of that.

 

(I am not really convinced by my own theory, but sounds good enough)

 

I like this theory. Makes sense to me, anyways  :D

 

If that was to happen, along with the other rule breaking with the fire, music and iron, do you think the Aelfinn and Eelfinn would let all 5 people out again, even if they do take Mat's eye like people think? I've always had this nagging feeling that Noal will be left in the Tower of Ghenjei after the others leave, as like, punishment for breaking so many rules. Probably just me being crazy... :-\

[DemandredFO]

Besides, Mat has to be careful because the Finns see everything he does.

[soulwatch5]

 

If that was to happen, along with the other rule breaking with the fire, music and iron, do you think the Aelfinn and Eelfinn would let all 5 people out again, even if they do take Mat's eye like people think? I've always had this nagging feeling that Noal will be left in the Tower of Ghenjei after the others leave, as like, punishment for breaking so many rules. Probably just me being crazy... :-\

 

I can even see Thom, Noal or Oliver dieing in there.  I mean you cant make a omelet without cracking a few eggs.  I doubt he'd kill off Thom or Oliver but who knows. I have been reading a lot of George RR Martin's work lately while waiting for ToM so I'm never surprised when a character is killed off anymore.

[Hemis AlRhoid]

With the literary allusions made to Olver trying to figure out the game of Snakes and Foxes, I think it's pretty conclusive he'll make his way in. He may lose playing the game, but he's trying harder than any character to understand and beat it.

[Lilbaz]

Have a look at the front cover. Unless Olver suddenly grew a few foot and got white hair that is Noal going in. Olver may come up with an idea or as already suggested may follow them in.

[soulwatch5]

With the literary allusions made to Olver trying to figure out the game of Snakes and Foxes, I think it's pretty conclusive he'll make his way in. He may lose playing the game, but he's trying harder than any character to understand and beat it.

 

That's pretty much was my thinking on why Oliver would of been the third to go in the tower. I do like Barid's theory though.

[Lady Beslan]

I can even see Thom, Noal or Oliver dieing in there.  I mean you cant make a omelet without cracking a few eggs.  I doubt he'd kill off Thom or Oliver but who knows. I have been reading a lot of George RR Martin's work lately while waiting for ToM so I'm never surprised when a character is killed off anymore.

 

I suppose so. It would be odd for Thom to die in there though after all he went through to get Moiraine out. If Olver went in and died, it could be a little disturbing as he's only 11 years old...However, it does seem possible that more than one could die, especially when considering what her letter says in KoD:

 

Even if you come only with Mat and one other, death also may come. I have seen you try and die, one or two or all three. I have seen myself die in the attempt. I have seen all of us live and die as captives.

 

I think if they all survived the trip it could possibly seem too good to be true.

 

In essence, I'm basically just saying I agree with you...  :D

[Hemis AlRhoid]

Have a look at the front cover. Unless Olver suddenly grew a few foot and got white hair that is Noal going in. Olver may come up with an idea or as already suggested may follow them in.

 

I wasn't suggesting that he was going in with Matt's knowledge and as part of the party.

[DemandredFO]

Martin would kill an 11-year-old, doubt RJ/BS would.  Odds are good that Farstrider will be the one that ain't coming out.

[CUBAREY]

With the literary allusions made to Olver trying to figure out the game of Snakes and Foxes, I think it's pretty conclusive he'll make his way in. He may lose playing the game, but he's trying harder than any character to understand and beat it.

 

Except you forget the essential part Olver still believes that te game can be won by the rules. What is to be learned by those going into rescue Morraine is that the way to win is to break the rules and bring the prohibited items with them. For that they have to make a connection between the mantra spoken at the beginning of each game and the prohibiton imposed by the Finns.

[Hemis AlRhoid]

Except you forget the essential part Olver still believes that te game can be won by the rules. What is to be learned by those going into rescue Morraine is that the way to win is to break the rules and bring the prohibited items with them. For that they have to make a connection between the mantra spoken at the beginning of each game and the prohibiton imposed by the Finns.

 

Oh I haven't forgot it. I think a big part of Olver's arc will be to figure out that you must cheat to win. I think he will be the one to make that connection.

[Durinax]

Except you forget the essential part Olver still believes that te game can be won by the rules. What is to be learned by those going into rescue Morraine is that the way to win is to break the rules and bring the prohibited items with them. For that they have to make a connection between the mantra spoken at the beginning of each game and the prohibiton imposed by the Finns.

 

Oh I haven't forgot it. I think a big part of Olver's arc will be to figure out that you must cheat to win. I think he will be the one to make that connection.

everyone exccept olver knows that you must break the rules to win everyone just doesnt have the heart of break his childish fancy.

[CUBAREY]

everyone exccept olver knows that you must break the rules to win everyone just doesnt have the heart of break his childish fancy.

 

They know that you have to break the rules of the game to win it they have not made the connection between braking the rules of the game and the pohibitions insisted on by the Finns.

[a5m]

Moraine would not have said a "man I do not know" if it had been a "boy I do not know". It's not going to be Oliver.