Why does Need bring Egwene to the Tinkers? (tGS spoilers)

[DocBean]

When Egwene uses the need trick in the Gathering Storm, why does it take her to the Tinkers?

and why does the fire not change like it should?

 

I'm thinking the fire is showing us that they haven't moved in a long time, which is odd for them.

The only Tinkers I can think of that might be important are the ones with the cache of angreal.

What do they have? I don't remember what all they're protecting, or what became of them.

 

Could this be the same Tinker caravan that Mat came across with the dead Tinkers?

If so, who's stoking the fire?

 

Egwene seems to think that what she needs to learn is that life is worth living and enjoying.

Could it be that easy?

 

Is it possible that what she needs to know is that violence and fighting is not the answer to winning the Last Battle?

Perhaps the Tinkers are the key to defeating the Dark One? Sounds a little hippie-ish to me.

 

What role do you think the Tinkers will play in this whole thing? They haven't done much so far.

 

[Vermillion]

It's probably the song and/or the way of the leaf.  All other Aiel groups have contributed a lot already.

[OptimusPrime]

When Egwene uses the need trick in the Gathering Storm, why does it take her to the Tinkers?

and why does the fire not change like it should?

 

I'm thinking the fire is showing us that they haven't moved in a long time, which is odd for them.

The only Tinkers I can think of that might be important are the ones with the cache of angreal.

What do they have? I don't remember what all they're protecting, or what became of them.

 

Could this be the same Tinker caravan that Mat came across with the dead Tinkers?

If so, who's stoking the fire?

 

Egwene seems to think that what she needs to learn is that life is worth living and enjoying.

Could it be that easy?

 

Is it possible that what she needs to know is that violence and fighting is not the answer to winning the Last Battle?

Perhaps the Tinkers are the key to defeating the Dark One? Sounds a little hippie-ish to me.

 

What role do you think the Tinkers will play in this whole thing? They haven't done much so far.

 

 

I dunno but for some reason I keep thinking there will be some Tinker with the Voice that Lews Therin mentioned in EotW prologue. "Have you the Voice, stranger? It will be time for the Singing soon, and all are welcome to participate." That I think may or may not be involved somehow with the Ogiers treesinging and the Talisman of Growing creating a new stedding over the Dark Ones new prison. Either that or the cleansing of the Blight.

[Canis Rufus]

Yes and yes,

 

I think that the tinkers, are holding something of great value power wise.  And I think that the “voice” will be a talent sort of like the wolf brothers or Min’s viewings. 

 

Unfortunately I think the song will be more important than anyone wants.  Sort of a big ol’ Kum-ba-ya to defeat the DO.  I hope not but it is being implied in almost every book.   

 

[Morsker]

What's the reason for thinking the Tinkers have any *angreal? They left them with the Jenn Aeil when they split off from the wagons, and the Aeil took them to Rhuidean.

[OptimusPrime]

Unfortunately I think the song will be more important than anyone wants.  Sort of a big ol’ Kum-ba-ya to defeat the DO.  I hope not but it is being implied in almost every book.     

 

I dont think its unfortunate. I think the Tinkers and the Song being involved in the Dark Ones defeat could be interesting if utilized in a way that creates a few safestops against the Dark Ones return. Different layers of the prison, if you will. Like, if a stedding was put over the new Shayol Ghul spot where it is made...

[jadelollipop]

I have not gotten to TGS in my re-read yet but the comment that the fire was steady meaning the Tinkers had settled made me think of Ebou Dar.  Rand found many Tinkers there because the order of the Seanchan Empire made it safer for them than Randland did.  Egwene's big need could be coming to terms with the Seanchan and the fact that at one time she was collared. Rather like Rand has to learn to work with AS in spite of the kidnapping/boxing etc....

[Dream]

I was thinking along similar lines as jadelollipop.  Can anyone quote what exactly Egwene was "needing"?  If it was generally to win the Last Battle, could be her need brought her directly to where Rand was hiding at the time.  Not too sure if the timing matches.  If true, that would make an interesting way to locate Rand, and possibly Mat and Perrin as well.

 

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

I think the Song may be instrumental in healing the Bore.  The Singing Talent had to do with life, not just with growing but with health and healing (which are actually the same thing in a lot of instances).  There is a line in the Karaethon Cycle from the header of A Crown of Swords: "There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land."  The Bore seems to be treated, in some respects, like a festering wound in reality itself.  The Power was able to provide a bandage of sorts, but not real healing.  Perhaps the One Power (this time both halves of it, wielded by at least Rand and two women using Callandor) can be used to temporarily block the Dark One's influence from the Bore while some aspect of the Song is used to actually heal it.

 

It's all speculation, of course ...

 

For reference, the exact wording of Egwene's "need" question was "What did she need to know, what did she need to see?"  I'm not sure exactly how much useful information we can dredge out of that specific wording.

[DocBean]

I was thinking along similar lines as jadelollipop.  Can anyone quote what exactly Egwene was "needing"?  If it was generally to win the Last Battle, could be her need brought her directly to where Rand was hiding at the time.  Not too sure if the timing matches.  If true, that would make an interesting way to locate Rand, and possibly Mat and Perrin as well.

 

 

 

basically what it says is: (listening to it on audio book right now)

She wasn't looking for an object, but for knowledge.

What did she need to know? What did she need to see?

Her surroundings blurred, then snapped back straight.

She stood in the middle of a small camp.

Fire smoldering in a fire pit before her. A tiny tongue of smoke curling toward the sky.

That was odd fire was usually too fleeting to reflect in T'A'R.

There were no actual flames despite the smoke and glow on the stones.

She saw the clouds above too.

With shock she noticed colorful wagons. Had they been there a moment before?

She was in a large clearing set inside a forest of phantom-white aspen, the underbrush was thick.

An overgrown road meandered through the trees to her right.

The wagons were in a ring. Plates cups and spoons appeared and vanished.

Wagon paint was fresh and clean.

she could almost imagine the dancing, and flutes.

What place was their for them in the coming world?

Did they seek to hide from the last battle?

They would dance right up until the day when the pattern burned away.

Wether or not they found their song, or the Trollocs ravaged the world, or the Dragon destroyed it.

Why did she fight for the White Tower? Power, Pride, or what's best for the world?

She thought about why she picked the Green. (to marry Gawyn)

life was about living, dreaming, and dancing.

Desires of the heart are less important then the fate of the world, but still important.

Then she shot herself back to the White Tower.

 

 

[Tom Sawyer]

 

I think that the tinkers, are holding something of great value power wise.

 

 

Maybe they have a vial of Dark One Repellant and the series will end with one of them dumping it into the Bore and getting rid of him.  Then they'll apologize for not leading with that move 3000 years ago.

[DocBean]

One odd thing at the end of that part was while looking up at the tower, which cast a shadow down on her, she thought to herself, was it time to let the Tower fall.

Then she said, No, not yet, a few more days.

and woke up.

 

Odd that she decided to give up on the Tower in a few days.

Those damn Tinkers will make even the strongest willed people give up everything for a chance to let down their hair and get a little wild.

They're like that friend in college that convinces you to go out to the bars rather then finish a project, or study for a test that's coming up the next day.

That's actually a good friend to know, for those of you that haven't finished college yet.

[Dream]

Thanks Noreallyjustsomeguy and DocBean.  Not sure what to make of that.  Rand being in the area seems more like a coincidence now, considering there's not much of Rand to see in TAR.

[DemandredFO]

I hope the Tinkers don't have anything to do with the sealing.  I have only contempt for them.  Wanting to settle disputes peacefully is one thing, letting something pure evil kill you because one is a suicidal pacifist is quite another.  Unfortunately I'm probably going to be disappointed unless we find out they're all darkfriends and the DO promised to let them alone.

[Impressive Bosom]

Yes and yes,

 

I think that the tinkers, are holding something of great value power wise.  And I think that the “voice” will be a talent sort of like the wolf brothers or Min’s viewings.   

 

Unfortunately I think the song will be more important than anyone wants.  Sort of a big ol’ Kum-ba-ya to defeat the DO.  I hope not but it is being implied in almost every book.     

 

 

Part of me thinks that the Song, the Tinkers, the Way of the Leaf etc. will all have a much greater impact and role in life AFTER the Last Battle, AFTER whatever resolution with the DO takes place... as part of rebuilding what was destroyed and bringing about once more the utopia of the AoL.

[Agitel]

The song, for growing and sustaining crops for food, which is necessary with crops randomly dying as the Dark One's touch on the world increases.

[Duskfire]

Yeha with how the world is at the moment I cant see it magically repairing once the DO is defeated. Nature is going to need time to flourish and get back on track and I can definetly see the Song being responsible for that.

[Tom Sawyer]

Yeha with how the world is at the moment I cant see it magically repairing once the DO is defeated. Nature is going to need time to flourish and get back on track and I can definetly see the Song being responsible for that.

 

After the Eye of the World, nature magically repaired itself and crops and flowers shot up like they were making up for lost time.  I don't see why it wouldn't do that again.

 

I think that the Tinkers are going to end up standing between Rand and a Trolloc army singing about peace and how everyone should just get along and Rand's just going to charge through them and slaugther them all his magic sword in order to demonstrate the superior morality of objectivist philosophy.

 

[shadowkiller_001]

I think the Tinkers are the "remnant of a remnant" of the Aiel that Rand will save.

I also think that the Song will come into play during the Dark One's re-sealing or destruction, even though I am not looking forward to the singing and hugging.

[Tom Sawyer]

I think the Tinkers are the "remnant of a remnant" of the Aiel that Rand will save.

I also think that the Song will come into play during the Dark One's re-sealing or destruction, even though I am not looking forward to the singing and hugging.

 

Maybe it's a Miley Cyrus song or something and the DO will run away and not bother the world again for a few thousand years to avoid hearing them sing it.

 

[Morsker]

She wasn't looking for an object, but for knowledge.

What did she need to know? What did she need to see?

 

If it's something she "needs to know", it could just be the same thing Rand learned: the Seanchen are providing social stability necessary to win the Last Battle. They're the reason those Tinkers have settled down in one location long enough for a fire to appear in T'A'R.

[FarShainMael]

She wasn't looking for an object, but for knowledge.

What did she need to know? What did she need to see?

 

If it's something she "needs to know", it could just be the same thing Rand learned: the Seanchen are providing social stability necessary to win the Last Battle. They're the reason those Tinkers have settled down in one location long enough for a fire to appear in T'A'R.

 

Herid Fel would go along with that..

 

[FarShainMael]

Unfortunately I think the song will be more important than anyone wants.  Sort of a big ol? Kum-ba-ya to defeat the DO.  I hope not but it is being implied in almost every book.     

 

I dont think its unfortunate. I think the Tinkers and the Song being involved in the Dark Ones defeat could be interesting if utilized in a way that creates a few safestops against the Dark Ones return. Different layers of the prison, if you will. Like, if a stedding was put over the new Shayol Ghul spot where it is made...

 

Perhaps the Tinkers and the Ogier will sing the Pattern whole and healed over the Bore.

 

[Dastion]

 

I think that the Tinkers are going to end up standing between Rand and a Trolloc army singing about peace and how everyone should just get along and Rand's just going to charge through them and slaugther them all his magic sword in order to demonstrate the superior morality of objectivist philosophy.

 

 

Careful, you'll give Terry Goodkind ideas.

[aunt_pol]

FSM - maybe you is right there. After Rand kills/wounds the DO, the song makes the Bore as if it had never been...