Has Perrin already thrown a major wrench into the Seanchan sul’dam damane machin

[KefkaPalazzo]

The Aiel are trained to resist mainly physical pain and torture.  What the damane have to deal with is Stockholm syndrome resulting from the emotional and mental torture of being treated like a pet.  Resistance to something to that isn't exactly something you can safely build up.

 

Even Egwene was starting to crack under that.  Ok, it was only in TGH, but even then, she wasn't exactly a pushover/weak.

[Random Man]

The Aiel are trained to resist mainly physical pain and torture.  What the damane have to deal with is Stockholm syndrome resulting from the emotional and mental torture of being treated like a pet.  Resistance to something to that isn't exactly something you can safely build up.

 

Even Egwene was starting to crack under that.  Ok, it was only in TGH, but even then, she wasn't exactly a pushover/weak.

All they really have to do is pretend in their minds that they're gai'shan.

[Kathleen]

And your forgetting how short of a time Egwene had training in how to do what she was trying to do. It is a way of life for the Aiel. They have been training for all of there lives to just go where life takes you. I don't know how well they will respond to non Aiel essentially making them gai'shan, but if its the only way to get them able to deal with it they may go to a gai'shan like state.

[nnokwoodeye]

I think given how much WO know about tel`aran`rhiod they might be able to hold on acting as accidental spies and passing on information to non collared WO.

 

Or what happens if some of the captured SWO are experienced Dreamwalkers? They wouldn't be collared in TAR. Even though they're despised Shaido Wise Ones, would you want to bet against Amys, Bair, etc. not doing anything to help the captives? {Insert evil laugh at Seanchan' expense.] ;D

 

Not to mention that there would be nothing to stop them from pulling their sul'dam into TAR... if sul'dam would start dying mysteriously while sleeping the seanchans would freak.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I think given how much WO know about tel`aran`rhiod they might be able to hold on acting as accidental spies and passing on information to non collared WO.

 

Or what happens if some of the captured SWO are experienced Dreamwalkers? They wouldn't be collared in TAR. Even though they're despised Shaido Wise Ones, would you want to bet against Amys, Bair, etc. not doing anything to help the captives? {Insert evil laugh at Seanchan' expense.] ;D

 

Not to mention that there would be nothing to stop them from pulling their sul'dam into TAR... if sul'dam would start dying mysteriously while sleeping the seanchans would freak.

 

Only Bair, Amys and Melaine are dreamwalkers, not all wise ones are, they communicate by searching for the other wise ones dreams.

[Millon]

That would be something. No way that the Aiel would be able to use it for long though. Eventually some one would crack and reveal the Wisewones for Dreamwalkers.

[Durinax]

That would be something. No way that the Aiel would be able to use it for long though. Eventually some one would crack and reveal the Wisewones for Dreamwalkers.

I think they would interpret it to the DO's work, no one would know the truth

[Millon]

The Seanchan would notice that it was only those Sul'dam who were complete with Wisewomen that were dying. I think that would tip them off. Especially that Aiel honor would prevent them from indiscriminately murdering ALL Sul'dam in there sleep to escape.

[Barid Bel Medar]

That would be something. No way that the Aiel would be able to use it for long though. Eventually some one would crack and reveal the Wisewones for Dreamwalkers.

I think they would interpret it to the DO's work, no one would know the truth

 

It seems that my point was perhpas missed, or ingnored, so i will elaborate.

 

Only Bair, Amys and Melaine can Dreamwalk (the fourth being the one who died in tSR by the Drakghar.

 

The Shadow Rising: Chapter 23: Beyond the Stone

Almost anyone can enter Tel'aran'rhiod, but few can enter it. Of all the Wise Ones, we four alone can dreamwalk and your Tower has not produced a dreamwalker in nearly five hundred years.

[ROB_88]

plus, they would never go that far as to drag someone into TAR and kill them there even if they could.

even the Shaido Aiel have more honor than that

[Barid Bel Medar]

plus, they would never go that far as to drag someone into TAR and kill them there even if they could.

even the Shaido Aiel have more honor than that

 

Really?

Now thats just plain rude, I can understand if some people missed my earlier post, but this was 5min (i will not believe it took 5min to post that small post) before your own post. Come on, at least have the decency to counter my post, or aknowledge it.

 

I dont mind peopole disagreeing with my posts, but just ignoring them? Thats ridiculous, the quote clearly states that there are no other dreamwalkers, so unless a couple of hundred Shaido Wise Ones that could Dreamwalk suddenly npopped up, i cant see why you would ignore the post.

 

Note: If there has been more Dreamwalkers confirmed, then I did nto see it, and will be happy to conceed, but I wont be flatly ignored. If you are giong to do that, dont post

[Val Mickey]

Revolution!! The damane will revolt!!

[Millon]

Wowwww, dude.......nevermind.

[ROB_88]

plus, they would never go that far as to drag someone into TAR and kill them there even if they could.

even the Shaido Aiel have more honor than that

 

Really?

Now thats just plain rude, I can understand if some people missed my earlier post, but this was 5min (i will not believe it took 5min to post that small post) before your own post. Come on, at least have the decency to counter my post, or aknowledge it.

 

I dont mind peopole disagreeing with my posts, but just ignoring them? Thats ridiculous, the quote clearly states that there are no other dreamwalkers, so unless a couple of hundred Shaido Wise Ones that could Dreamwalk suddenly npopped up, i cant see why you would ignore the post.

 

Note: If there has been more Dreamwalkers confirmed, then I did nto see it, and will be happy to conceed, but I wont be flatly ignored. If you are giong to do that, dont post

 

ok, not the reaction i was expecting.

if it appears i ignored/offended you, then i'm sorry, but chill. no reason to go all...that way.

maybe i used a poor choice of words, but the "plus" at the beginning of my post was meant to say in one word that you were right there are no shaido dreamwalkers, but even if there were it wouldn't matter

[Barid Bel Medar]

ah, thats fair enough, it wasnt clear, but i see now that it is, so i  apologize for that.

 

I still stand by what i said about ingoring posts, and yes, I know you didnt, so it doesnt apply to you, but the fact of it still stands.

 

If I might say though, I dont see the point in saying that even though it cant happen, it wouldnt for other reasons...  To me, its kinda like saying, if Rand were a Rabbit, he would be a good DR because....

 

Anyway, thats fair enough, and I misunderstood, sorry about that.

[Val Mickey]

Awww.. How sweet. People are so nice.

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!

 

Don't apologize! Fight! Insult! Abuse!

 

Actually I had too much coffee. ;D

 

As someone mentioned earlier, the Rings of Rhuidean has warned all the Wise Ones 'cept Sevanna, so I can't imagine that only Therava's coterie had the warnings. It could be that the other Wise Ones would see themselves as having participated in war, and lost, thus becoming gai'shain. They might even go with it for a year, by which time TG would have been done with. Or they might know how to escape. Which I think is a summary of the above discussion.

 

Anyways Perrin has gotten himself good with the Seanchan.

I'm waiting for him to meet Tuon along with Abell.

 

[Juggler]

surely if wise one dreamwalkers were collared they wouldn't need to Kill, they would only need to find the Suldams dream, pull them into TAR and sever them.

 

It would suggest a good way to screw the seanchean would be not to attack the damane but to still the Suldam's then the link couldn't be completed ever again may also effect the damanes on the leash during the stilling.

 

can you "still" a woman who can learn but has never touched the source?

[Millon]

A wiseone would never pull someone into the dream. They think it is evil and must never be done. I have wondered that to. If you haven't yet touched the source is there anything to sever?

[PatsNats28]

A wiseone would never pull someone into the dream. They think it is evil and must never be done. I have wondered that to. If you haven't yet touched the source is there anything to sever?

 

Is it more evil than the a'dam?

[DemandredFO]

Besies there's jei'toh, do what you must and then pay for it.

[Durinax]

A wiseone would never pull someone into the dream. They think it is evil and must never be done. I have wondered that to. If you haven't yet touched the source is there anything to sever?

you can sever their connection the their body. . . since some of the forsaken have died in TAR does that make them perma dead like wolves would be?

[PatsNats28]

Besies there's jei'toh, do what you must and then pay for it.

 

shaido have already basically abandoned ji'e'toh

[Aegnor]

All of Seanchan is dead anyways. The only thing left is what's on this side of the ocean. When it comes out that Fortuona can actually Channel and that all the Empress' before her could (as we can easily tell by the descriptions that the Crystal Throne is by all means a Ter'Angreal)

 

There is no evidence that all the Empresses could channel. In fact, I think it is very unlikely. There are/were many Ter'Angreal that non-channelers could use, and the throne is likely one of those.

[SvetSedi]

A wiseone would never pull someone into the dream. They think it is evil and must never be done.

 

Is it more evil than the a'dam?

 

 

We are talking about Shaido here, while they do seem to undergo mostly the same self discipline as the other Aiel, the Shaido seem to be much more "flexible" about what is right & wrong. After all they did brutally murder a sister Wise One and blame it on complete innocents. I could easily see them pulling the Suldam into their dreams and Severing them or even out and out killing them. It's the Shaido thing to do.

 

 

 

All of Seanchan is dead anyways. The only thing left is what's on this side of the ocean. When it comes out that Fortuona can actually Channel and that all the Empress' before her could (as we can easily tell by the descriptions that the Crystal Throne is by all means a Ter'Angreal)

 

There is no evidence that all the Empresses could channel. In fact, I think it is very unlikely. There are/were many Ter'Angreal that non-channelers could use, and the throne is likely one of those.

 

 

 

I disagree, there seems to be a vastly higher number of One Power objects that require channeling than those that do not. That and common sense says that it is more likely that Channeling is required because if it did not require Channeling then a janitor or cleaning lady could take over the entire place just by sitting in the chair, only to be supplanted when the person collapsed from the chair in exhaustion.

 

So IMHO by shear odds it requires Channeling and by common sense functionality it requires Channeling.

 

That said it is not a certainty - just a probability.

[Lambada]

FYI: RJ siad the chair does not require channelling.

 

But, here's my pet theory, in my mind that doesn't rule out the possibility that the person does need to be able to channel, just that they don't need to actively touch saidar / saidin.