A clue to Taim

[Aagaard]

2)Again, could be Rhuarc or Dobraine or perhaps, the unknown high Lord of Tear (Darlin?), who was at the TGH DF social

 

The High Lord of Tear is to my unerstanding Weiramon

[Sharaman]

@Aagaard Could be. Do you have a chain of logic beyond Weiramon's conversation with a rogue Ashaman in TPoD?

 

[Cirin]

I thought he appointed that one rebel guy... I forget his name (maybe it is Darlin) that he brought back into his camp, the one that was with Moiraine's cousin, as the leader in Tear?  And then he's almost assassinated, but survives.

[Sharaman]

@Cirin

Darlin Sisnera is with Caraline Damodred. He's a former rebel and now the king of Tear. (He's also the chap Mat KOs in TDR) 

Dobraine who's in Carhein is the chap who's almost assassinated in CoT but survives.

Which one do you mean?

 

[haloun]

 

 

Why did she kill Masema??? He sure as hell wasnt in a position to cause so much chaos anymore, meaning his usefulness has gone down, and hes with one of the Lights three biggest assets meaning theres the chance they could find out "Rand" appeared to him...

 

she killed him because he is "rabid" anyone he is near also picks up the same intensity... look at the "tinker" who's entire life was to protect perrin, and then he goes and tries to cut off his head because of being in close proximity to "the prophet of the lord dragon reborn"  I think masema is actually a darkfriend... and he was recieving his orders from semirhage... thats why the meetings with the seanchan, and why he has the letter from suroth, maybe he didnt know it was from semi, but his orders came from her, directly through the darkfriend suroth herself.

[Ataxia]

He wasn't a dark friend; he was a fanatic.

[Duskfire]

Yeah you can tell from Masemas POV that he truly believed what he was doing was for the Dragon Reborn and that Perrin was actually the darkfriend. However, he was still incredibly dangerous without his followers around; he seemed to have a knack for funneling out undesirables to support his cause, and with his strange connection with the Seanchan and Aes Sedai theres no telling what he was up to. Killing him was the best thing to do.

 

Not to mention he had turned one of Perrins friends against him and almost had him killed (would have died if it werent for that stray arrow that took Aram.) You can't blame Faile for killing Masema, purely based on that.

[Cirin]

I was rereading some of Lord of Chaos, and was struck by the following that Mazrim Taim mentions upon meeting Rand for the first time, trying to prove to Bashere that he is actually Mazrim Taim.  He says:

 

"I hear you hid what happened to Musar and Hachari and their wives." The mockery was gone; he was just relating what had happened, now. "They shouldn't have tried to kill me under a parley flag. I trust you found them good places as servants? All they'll really want to do now is serve and obey; they won't be happy otherwise. I could have killed them. They all four drew daggers."

 

That sounds a lot like Compulsion to me, which is not only a Forbidden weave, but one that is not commonly known (Nynaeve and Elayne mention it was something Moghedien showed them).  If that is what Taim did to them, that suggests that he learned it from someone, possibly a Forsaken, prior to Rand declaring himself the Dragon Reborn.  He also has staved off the madness for many years, and we know that the Dark One can offer protection against the Taint.  I realize that this isn't new information or anything, but it seems to suggest (along with all the other obvious mentions of him seeming evil, talking about letting the Lord of Chaos rule, etc.) that Taim is more than just a guy out for his own interests.  It seems to suggest that he is a Darkfriend, and probably has been for some time.  For all we know, it's possible that the Shadow set him up as a false Dragon in much the same way the White Tower was supposed to have set up Loghain.  Just an interesting speculation.

[Majsju]

I was rereading some of Lord of Chaos, and was struck by the following that Mazrim Taim mentions upon meeting Rand for the first time, trying to prove to Bashere that he is actually Mazrim Taim.  He says:

 

"I hear you hid what happened to Musar and Hachari and their wives." The mockery was gone; he was just relating what had happened, now. "They shouldn't have tried to kill me under a parley flag. I trust you found them good places as servants? All they'll really want to do now is serve and obey; they won't be happy otherwise. I could have killed them. They all four drew daggers."

 

That sounds a lot like Compulsion to me, which is not only a Forbidden weave, but one that is not commonly known (Nynaeve and Elayne mention it was something Moghedien showed them).  If that is what Taim did to them, that suggests that he learned it from someone, possibly a Forsaken, prior to Rand declaring himself the Dragon Reborn.  He also has staved off the madness for many years, and we know that the Dark One can offer protection against the Taint.  I realize that this isn't new information or anything, but it seems to suggest (along with all the other obvious mentions of him seeming evil, talking about letting the Lord of Chaos rule, etc.) that Taim is more than just a guy out for his own interests.  It seems to suggest that he is a Darkfriend, and probably has been for some time.  For all we know, it's possible that the Shadow set him up as a false Dragon in much the same way the White Tower was supposed to have set up Loghain.  Just an interesting speculation.

 

Taim did not use Compulsion, it was something else. According to RJ they simply do not have the intelligence left to do anything complicated.

 

Though, if Nynaeve can "figure out" Balfire out of nowhere, why could not Taim, who have channeled quite a bit longer than her, figure out things? Just because he is evil he is not necessarily stupid, even though most Forsaken makes it look that way.

[haloun]

i dont think it was compulsion, it seems more of a removal of all willpower at all, if it was compulsion then they would only serve taim....it actually sounds more like semirhages specialties, and as for logain, wasnt it galina herself who contacted him the first time?  if that is the case, then reason would say that the shadow had a hand in these false dragons, that may also explain why raolin darksbane was mentioned to rand in baerlon, because the dark one had his hand in it all...now taim may be the only one who is a darkfriend...last words in book 11 for reference, and that would be why he has access to the DO's protection from the tain, it also explains why the almost immediate attacks on rand after he tells TAIM he plans to cleanse the taint, anyways, taim may be the only DF false dragon, but i think the DO wanted the others, so he could put doubt into the hearts of so many people at once.

[Barid Bel Medar]

i dont think it was compulsion, it seems more of a removal of all willpower at all, if it was compulsion then they would only serve taim....it actually sounds more like semirhages specialties, and as for logain, wasnt it galina herself who contacted him the first time?  if that is the case, then reason would say that the shadow had a hand in these false dragons, that may also explain why raolin darksbane was mentioned to rand in baerlon, because the dark one had his hand in it all...now taim may be the only one who is a darkfriend...last words in book 11 for reference, and that would be why he has access to the DO's protection from the tain, it also explains why the almost immediate attacks on rand after he tells TAIM he plans to cleanse the taint, anyways, taim may be the only DF false dragon, but i think the DO wanted the others, so he could put doubt into the hearts of so many people at once.

 

while i agree taim is most likely a DF, the "Lord of Chaos" reference is an old saying a chant from a children's game or some such, so it is not impossible that he knew if from comming across that, although its highly unlikely with Demandred saying the same thing.

[Lacanos]

i dont think it was compulsion, it seems more of a removal of all willpower at all, if it was compulsion then they would only serve taim....it actually sounds more like semirhages specialties, and as for logain, wasnt it galina herself who contacted him the first time?  if that is the case, then reason would say that the shadow had a hand in these false dragons, that may also explain why raolin darksbane was mentioned to rand in baerlon, because the dark one had his hand in it all...now taim may be the only one who is a darkfriend...last words in book 11 for reference, and that would be why he has access to the DO's protection from the tain, it also explains why the almost immediate attacks on rand after he tells TAIM he plans to cleanse the taint, anyways, taim may be the only DF false dragon, but i think the DO wanted the others, so he could put doubt into the hearts of so many people at once.

 

while i agree taim is most likely a DF, the "Lord of Chaos" reference is an old saying a chant from a children's game or some such, so it is not impossible that he knew if from comming across that, although its highly unlikely with Demandred saying the same thing.

It's from a children's chant from the 4th age. We're in the 3rd age

[azrael.1289]

i dont think it was compulsion, it seems more of a removal of all willpower at all, if it was compulsion then they would only serve taim....it actually sounds more like semirhages specialties, and as for logain, wasnt it galina herself who contacted him the first time?  if that is the case, then reason would say that the shadow had a hand in these false dragons, that may also explain why raolin darksbane was mentioned to rand in baerlon, because the dark one had his hand in it all...now taim may be the only one who is a darkfriend...last words in book 11 for reference, and that would be why he has access to the DO's protection from the tain, it also explains why the almost immediate attacks on rand after he tells TAIM he plans to cleanse the taint, anyways, taim may be the only DF false dragon, but i think the DO wanted the others, so he could put doubt into the hearts of so many people at once.

 

while i agree taim is most likely a DF, the "Lord of Chaos" reference is an old saying a chant from a children's game or some such, so it is not impossible that he knew if from comming across that, although its highly unlikely with Demandred saying the same thing.

It's from a children's chant from the 4th age. We're in the 3rd age

Who exactly is Lord of Chaos anyway? GLoD? Rand?

[Morsker]

I think the Lord of Chaos is the protagonist of some trash romance novel I saw in a book store once.

[DemandredFO]

Richard Rahl ;D

[Lacanos]

i dont think it was compulsion, it seems more of a removal of all willpower at all, if it was compulsion then they would only serve taim....it actually sounds more like semirhages specialties, and as for logain, wasnt it galina herself who contacted him the first time?  if that is the case, then reason would say that the shadow had a hand in these false dragons, that may also explain why raolin darksbane was mentioned to rand in baerlon, because the dark one had his hand in it all...now taim may be the only one who is a darkfriend...last words in book 11 for reference, and that would be why he has access to the DO's protection from the tain, it also explains why the almost immediate attacks on rand after he tells TAIM he plans to cleanse the taint, anyways, taim may be the only DF false dragon, but i think the DO wanted the others, so he could put doubt into the hearts of so many people at once.

 

while i agree taim is most likely a DF, the "Lord of Chaos" reference is an old saying a chant from a children's game or some such, so it is not impossible that he knew if from comming across that, although its highly unlikely with Demandred saying the same thing.

It's from a children's chant from the 4th age. We're in the 3rd age

Who exactly is Lord of Chaos anyway? GLoD? Rand?

It's theorised to either be a reference to the DO, or possibly not to an entity at all, but just to chaos generally

[Morsker]

I threw out the LoC cover in the mall before I even got in the car to go home. I didn't want my parents seeing it.

 

But yeah, the LoC is Rand, although we don't fully understand the Dark One's motives here. We know he wants chaos increased because it's in Shadar Haran's PoV, but we don't know exactly what chaos means, or how it benefits his plans.

[Cirin]

Taim did not use Compulsion, it was something else. According to RJ they simply do not have the intelligence left to do anything complicated.

 

Though, if Nynaeve can "figure out" Balfire out of nowhere, why could not Taim, who have channeled quite a bit longer than her, figure out things? Just because he is evil he is not necessarily stupid, even though most Forsaken makes it look that way.

 

That's good to know about RJ mentioning those people's fate.  That still doesn't change the fact, though, that Mazrim Taim seems remarkably in the know for someone that supposedly learned to channel on his own.  I never meant to say he was stupid, either.  Far from it.  It's certainly possible he learned to channel on his own, and actually came to Rand seeking amnesty.  He just seems rather polished about certain things when we first meet him, though, that makes you wonder if he wasn't maybe taught some things about channeling before he ever declared himself.  Being a Darkfriend also explains his resiliency to madness, since they are immune.

 

I realize this is no new theory or anything, I just point it out as a further indication that Taim is probably a Darkfriend (as some remain unconvinced).

[Lacanos]

I threw out the LoC cover in the mall before I even got in the car to go home. I didn't want my parents seeing it.

 

But yeah, the LoC is Rand, although we don't fully understand the Dark One's motives here. We know he wants chaos increased because it's in Shadar Haran's PoV, but we don't know exactly what chaos means, or how it benefits his plans.

Sorry, when's the LoC said to be Rand?!

[FarShainMael]

I wonder if the Lord of Chaos is at all related to the Lord of Misrule:  ;)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_Misrule

 

[OptimusPrime]

I threw out the LoC cover in the mall before I even got in the car to go home. I didn't want my parents seeing it.

 

But yeah, the LoC is Rand, although we don't fully understand the Dark One's motives here. We know he wants chaos increased because it's in Shadar Haran's PoV, but we don't know exactly what chaos means, or how it benefits his plans.

Sorry, when's the LoC said to be Rand?!

 

Never ever has it been said, not once. I maintain that the Lord of Chaos is not a person or even a thing; it is a plan of action. Just like Rand slew the Aiel with the sword of peace, which was never actually a sword, let the lord of chaos rule means to serve chaos, even though chaos can't possibly be a lord.

[Lacanos]

I threw out the LoC cover in the mall before I even got in the car to go home. I didn't want my parents seeing it.

 

But yeah, the LoC is Rand, although we don't fully understand the Dark One's motives here. We know he wants chaos increased because it's in Shadar Haran's PoV, but we don't know exactly what chaos means, or how it benefits his plans.

Sorry, when's the LoC said to be Rand?!

 

Never ever has it been said, not once. I maintain that the Lord of Chaos is not a person or even a thing; it is a plan of action. Just like Rand slew the Aiel with the sword of peace, which was never actually a sword, let the lord of chaos rule means to serve chaos, even though chaos can't possibly be a lord.

That's how I interpreted it also - Sammael considering his orders to spread Chaos in either 7 or 8 with the Shaido "travelling boxes" is a good example

[Beer Rot]

[Duskfire]

I would say the Lord is Chaos is Rand. The last two lines of the prophecy at the end of LoC is "What was exacted is cast down; what was cast down is raised up. Order burns to clear his path." Order and Chaos are opposites.

 

If you look at the series as a whole, Rand is the harbinger of chaos. He breaks ties, changes cultures, brings unrest and disorder everywhere through his ta`veren effect and general influence, and the fact that most of that isn't even really his own doing just makes the chaos aspect even more so. To me, "Let the Lord of Chaos rule," is about using Rands influence against him, and sowing mayhem and disorder throughout the world using his name i.e the dragonsworn.

 

I guess its just one interpretation.

 

[haloun]

I threw out the LoC cover in the mall before I even got in the car to go home. I didn't want my parents seeing it.

 

But yeah, the LoC is Rand, although we don't fully understand the Dark One's motives here. We know he wants chaos increased because it's in Shadar Haran's PoV, but we don't know exactly what chaos means, or how it benefits his plans.

Sorry, when's the LoC said to be Rand?!

 

 

 

Never ever has it been said, not once. I maintain that the Lord of Chaos is not a person or even a thing; it is a plan of action. Just like Rand slew the Aiel with the sword of peace, which was never actually a sword, let the lord of chaos rule means to serve chaos, even though chaos can't possibly be a lord.

 

the bit about him slaying the aiel with the sword of peace may not yet have come to pass.  he currently owns the sword named justice i believe, and lamans sword which rand carried for quite some time, was never meant to be used in battle... just saying such things may still be in play, or may yet come to pass, but as to the lord of chaos, the order was to let him rule, and by leaving rand alone the Forsaken definitely did that, however it also destroyed his chances of making peace with the seanchan.