Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[DragonChi]

If trollocs (and other constructs) are able to be sent to those worlds, there are at least these risks:[...]

That's good. Risks like those form a limit on the number of Trollocs that can reasonably be produced.

 

But would a Warden who was not a channeler such as Lan was bonded by both male and female channelers. Whould he be a super warder?

No he wouldn't. Warders derive their extra abilities from a passive link to the power through their bond-holder. Once you are connected, being connected again has no further effect.

Ok this makes sense. It is not the weave itself that gives the warder abilities. The weave simply connects a non-channeler to Saidin or Saidar and that connection gives the person enhanced abilities. That is why it is mostly a weave of spirit. And that is why Rand being bonded by multiple women has no extra powers. But I don't think we know for sure, that if a Warder is bonded by both a woman and a male channeler - Both to Saidin and Saidar that he or she would not be stronger. Clearly that would not work for a channeler - as they already have a connection, but should for a Lan or Mat/Perrin. We don't have any characters (almost kind of strange) that have been bonded to both sides of the One Power. We are told over and over that Saidin and Saidar complement each other and the relationship seems to be almost Exponential in nature. It is intuitive that such a character would be stronger.

[didymos]

Now, I've always was curious if the fact that the keys were 'lost" (for real or not) forced his hand.

 

They weren't lost. Their locations were known. The territories in which they resided were lost to the Shadow:

Just as the paired sa'angreal were completed, disaster struck. The access ter'angreal were being made at a place far removed from the sa'angreal (apparently because of a danger of "uncontrolled resonances during the final stages," whatever that means), and that region was overrun by forces under Sammael. The only good point in it was that the ter'angreal themselves had been hidden and the place where they were made destroyed (its very existence had been a secret at the highest levels all along) so that neither Sammael nor anyone else for the Shadow knew that any of these things were now within their grasp. The side of the Light still had the sa'angreal, but no safe way to access them; without the ter'angreal it was certain that even the strongest Aes Sedai would be burned out instantly by the huge flow of the One Power.

 

Plans were made to retrieve them, and executed. Then they really were lost, but no one knew that:

2. According to the manuscript pages, all of the agents responsible for this smuggling were caught, though that was not known until events had far outrun anyone's plans. They were brave men and women, for although those who were not killed outright were tortured, and though some revealed the purpose of their mission, none betrayed the location of any of the access ter'angreal. Still, the only real result was that the ter'angreal were widely scattered across areas held for the Shadow, their locations and even their existence to remain hidden for millennia.

 

 

After that the Shadow took even more territory and social order in non-Shadow territories was falling apart and it was basically impossible to halt the Shadow's advance. The Choedan Kal themselves were in danger of being captured. At that point, LTT said "Screw this. I'm doing it my way."

 

It's all explained in "The Strike At Shayol Ghul".

Edited October 25, 2010 by didymos

[rambling]

It's all explained in "The Strike At Shayol Ghul".

 

Yes that definitely helps. Especially since I've also remembered this : (TGS ch22) "It didn't work, Lewis Therin whispered. We used saidin, but we touched it to the Dark One. It was the only way! Something has to touch him, something to close the gap, but he was able to taint it. The seal was weak!"

 

I'd speculate that if something has to touch the DO, and he is able to taint it, then he'd better use True Power for the job and not Choedan Kal.

[didymos]

I'd speculate that if something has to touch the DO, and he is able to taint it, then he'd better use True Power for the job and not Choedan Kal.

 

So...make the Dark One touch himself?

[dovien]

[...]But I don't think we know for sure, that if a Warder is bonded by both a woman and a male channeler - Both to Saidin and Saidar that he or she would not be stronger. Clearly that would not work for a channeler - as they already have a connection, but should for a Lan or Mat/Perrin. We don't have any characters (almost kind of strange) that have been bonded to both sides of the One Power. We are told over and over that Saidin and Saidar complement each other and the relationship seems to be almost Exponential in nature. It is intuitive that such a character would be stronger.

You're right, we don't know for sure but personally I don't think there will be any extra effects. Remember that for everyone else in the world the Power is just the life-force of the universe. Which side is which only matters to those who can actually channel it.

[maxofox]

Hey quick question. Is there a place where I can find all of Min's viewings, plus all of Egwene and the wise ones dreams?

[rambling]

I'd speculate that if something has to touch the DO, and he is able to taint it, then he'd better use True Power for the job and not Choedan Kal.

 

So...make the Dark One touch himself?

 

Yup

And as to what effect that would have....perhaps I'd better turn that into the next 'simple' question.

Has this been discussed before? I've not found anything on the subject so far.

 

It seems clear that if using just Saidin didn't work, then just Saidar won't either.

Maybe you need all three - Saidin, Saidar and TP. Callandor springs to mind... "He shall hold a blade of light in his hands, and the three shall be as one"

I'm sure I've seen this 'triple' theory somewhere before, or at least something very similar, sorry I can't find it at the moment.

I think more research wouldn't go amiss here...

[rambling]

Hey quick question. Is there a place where I can find all of Min's viewings, plus all of Egwene and the wise ones dreams?

 

here

[Bob T Dwarf]

According to Encyclopaedia WOT, the Karaethon Cycle is also known as The Prophecies of the Dragon.

 

According to Tor's website and Q&A that used to be contained thereon, the Horn of Valere was secreted at the Eye of the World along with the Dragon Banner because the Foretellings that make up The Prophecies of the Dragon said it must be.

 

Yet, according to Chapter 20 of The Great Hunt, the Horn of Valere is not mentioned in the Karaethon Cycle.

 

So what is true here? Does Karaethon Cycle = The Prophecies of the Dragon?

 

If so, either the Horn was placed at the EoTW because the Prophesies said it must be or the Prophecies never mentioned it. It has to be one or the other but it can't be both.

 

If the KC does not equal TPotD, then what is the Karaethon Cycle?

[didymos]

According to Tor's website and Q&A that used to be contained thereon, the Horn of Valere was secreted at the Eye of the World along with the Dragon Banner because the Foretellings that make up The Prophecies of the Dragon said it must be.

 

 

You misread it. It actually says (bolding mine):

It was later recovered and sealed up with the Dragon Banner because along with the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon was one saying that it must be.

 

 

IOW, one group of Fortellings became the Prophecies and there was another, separate Fortelling about the Horn itself that was not part of them.

Edited October 26, 2010 by didymos

[didymos]

I'd speculate that if something has to touch the DO, and he is able to taint it, then he'd better use True Power for the job and not Choedan Kal.

 

So...make the Dark One touch himself?

 

Yup

 

 

OK, while I was mostly just indulging in cheap innuendo, there is a serious point: what good does it do to touch the DO with the DO? How would you make him hold himself back? It makes no sense. Why would you be able to use him to "close the gap" when he's the very thing coming through that gap in the first place?

Edited October 26, 2010 by didymos

[Sharaman]

The TP usage to lock up the GLoD has certainly been discussed and the absurdity of touching him with himself has been dissected.

There's a thread on this forum to it. Sorry, can't be bothered to search but its there.

[rambling]

I'd speculate that if something has to touch the DO, and he is able to taint it, then he'd better use True Power for the job and not Choedan Kal.

 

So...make the Dark One touch himself?

 

Yup

 

 

OK, while I was mostly just indulging in cheap innuendo, there is a serious point: what good does it do to touch the DO with the DO? How would you make him hold himself back? It makes no sense. Why would you be able to use him to "close the gap" when he's the very thing coming through that gap in the first place?

 

 

Lewd thoughts aside...

I was originally thinking of double negatives and how TP is finite, maybe you could channel TP until used up completely?

Knife of Dreams book tour 13 October 2005, Harvard Coop - basri...@gmail.com reporting "[One Power] It is never used up, and so it is like an infinite resevour of power. The True power is not like this at all. The TP comes from the dark one of course."

 

Then I had a night's sleep, did a little more reading, thought about your comment, found this thread and came across the answer to my first question

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Borders, Washington DC 4 November 2009 - mrc1ark reporting "Sanderson said Rand realized that he did not need the Choedan Kal for the Last Battle. Brandon also said that Rand was not at a point where he needed the Choedan Kal for anything he wanted to do."

 

So there was some sort of revelation, (I still think you need the three powers to use Callandor to full effect though)

[fborch]

I doubt the Bore could be patched with TP, considering how much a part of the DO it is. I'm leaning more and more towards Ogier/Aiel singing being part of the process, and far less towards any sort of solution using the True/One Power

[Sharaman]

I'd speculate that if something has to touch the DO, and he is able to taint it, then he'd better use True Power for the job and not Choedan Kal.

 

So...make the Dark One touch himself?

 

Yup

 

 

OK, while I was mostly just indulging in cheap innuendo, there is a serious point: what good does it do to touch the DO with the DO? How would you make him hold himself back? It makes no sense. Why would you be able to use him to "close the gap" when he's the very thing coming through that gap in the first place?

 

 

Lewd thoughts aside...

I was originally thinking of double negatives and how TP is finite, maybe you could channel TP until used up completely?

Knife of Dreams book tour 13 October 2005, Harvard Coop - basri...@gmail.com reporting "[One Power] It is never used up, and so it is like an infinite resevour of power. The True power is not like this at all. The TP comes from the dark one of course."

 

Then I had a night's sleep, did a little more reading, thought about your comment, found this thread and came across the answer to my first question

The Gathering Storm Book Tour, Borders, Washington DC 4 November 2009 - mrc1ark reporting "Sanderson said Rand realized that he did not need the Choedan Kal for the Last Battle. Brandon also said that Rand was not at a point where he needed the Choedan Kal for anything he wanted to do."

 

So there was some sort of revelation, (I still think you need the three powers to use Callandor to full effect though)

Callandor is not a TP angreal and, if we go by the balefire cross TP and OP don't mix.

[Bob T Dwarf]

According to Tor's website and Q&A that used to be contained thereon, the Horn of Valere was secreted at the Eye of the World along with the Dragon Banner because the Foretellings that make up The Prophecies of the Dragon said it must be.

 

 

You misread it. It actually says (bolding mine):

It was later recovered and sealed up with the Dragon Banner because along with the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon was one saying that it must be.

 

 

IOW, one group of Fortellings became the Prophecies and there was another, separate Fortelling about the Horn itself that was not part of them.

 

OK, where are you getting your quote from? The one I've got does not include the parts you've bolded.

[rambling]

Callandor is not a TP angreal and, if we go by the balefire cross TP and OP don't mix.

 

 

Ok, I've had a glass of wine and I'm in an argumentative mood...

Maybe balefire streams don't mix, but where is the evidence that OP and TP can not be used together? (I'm feeling argumentative, not belligirent, so if there is any I'd be glad to read it)

Callandor is not an ordinary angreal. We know that, Rand using it by himself caused no end of trouble. A circle of three (inc. saidin and saidar) managed to flatten a hilltop. But maybe it can go up another notch?

In In TGS (ch 48) there is a whole section devoted to how there's something about Callandor... Even Cadsuane who told Rand about Callandor's 'flaw' admits we don't have the whole story yet -

" "Cadsuane," she said. "This is still wrong. There's more here. Something we havn't discovered." "About Callandor?" the woman asked. Min nodded. "I suspect as well," Cadsuane replied."

Now, I just want to know how hw's going to use it...

[didymos]

According to Tor's website and Q&A that used to be contained thereon, the Horn of Valere was secreted at the Eye of the World along with the Dragon Banner because the Foretellings that make up The Prophecies of the Dragon said it must be.

 

 

You misread it. It actually says (bolding mine):

It was later recovered and sealed up with the Dragon Banner because along with the Foretellings that made up the Prophecies of the Dragon was one saying that it must be.

 

 

IOW, one group of Fortellings became the Prophecies and there was another, separate Fortelling about the Horn itself that was not part of them.

 

OK, where are you getting your quote from? The one I've got does not include the parts you've bolded.

 

The 13th depository has all of the QotWs collected. The original, retrieved via Wayback Machine, agrees:

 

web.archive.org/web/20050717081236/http://www.tor.com/jordan/questions.html

 

That's actually missing the final week's question, but it wasn't about anything in the books so...enh. If you care, it can be found here:

 

web.archive.org/web/20050720032216/http://www.tor.com/jordan/questions.html

Edited October 26, 2010 by didymos

[Sharaman]

Callandor is not a TP angreal and, if we go by the balefire cross TP and OP don't mix.

 

 

Ok, I've had a glass of wine and I'm in an argumentative mood...

Maybe balefire streams don't mix, but where is the evidence that OP and TP can not be used together? (I'm feeling argumentative, not belligirent, so if there is any I'd be glad to read it)

Callandor is not an ordinary angreal. We know that, Rand using it by himself caused no end of trouble. A circle of three (inc. saidin and saidar) managed to flatten a hilltop. But maybe it can go up another notch?

In In TGS (ch 48) there is a whole section devoted to how there's something about Callandor... Even Cadsuane who told Rand about Callandor's 'flaw' admits we don't have the whole story yet -

" "Cadsuane," she said. "This is still wrong. There's more here. Something we havn't discovered." "About Callandor?" the woman asked. Min nodded. "I suspect as well," Cadsuane replied."

Now, I just want to know how hw's going to use it...

 

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

Q: Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?

RJ: No.

 

AFAIK the balefire cross is the only time we've seen a mixing of OP and TP. If I could remember a clear example, I would have cited it.

[rambling]

 

http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=372

Q: Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?

RJ: No.

 

AFAIK the balefire cross is the only time we've seen a mixing of OP and TP. If I could remember a clear example, I would have cited it.

 

But it is not a male angreal, it's a 'mixed' angreal

[didymos]

http://www.theorylan...hread.php?t=372

Q: Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?

RJ: No.

 

AFAIK the balefire cross is the only time we've seen a mixing of OP and TP. If I could remember a clear example, I would have cited it.

 

But it is not a male angreal, it's a 'mixed' angreal

 

No, it is a male sa'angreal. It has absolutely zero effect on how much saidar one can channel. It's just not safe to use unless you link with two women. There's no such thing as "mixed" angreal or sa'angreal. They may be possible, but none has ever appeared nor has anyone in the series shown any indication of knowing of such a thing.

Edited October 27, 2010 by didymos

[rambling]

http://www.theorylan...hread.php?t=372

Q: Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?

RJ: No.

 

AFAIK the balefire cross is the only time we've seen a mixing of OP and TP. If I could remember a clear example, I would have cited it.

 

But it is not a male angreal, it's a 'mixed' angreal

 

No, it is a male sa'angreal. It has absolutely zero effect on how much saidar one can channel. It's just not safe to use unless you link with two women. There's no such thing as "mixed" angreal or sa'angreal. They may be possible, but none has ever appeared nor has anyone in the series shown any indication of knowing of such a thing.

 

Sorry, I'm getting my angreals and sa'angreals mixed up, and I'm not making myself clear either.

My point is that this is one of a kind, or perhaps the one surviving example. Cadsuane knows that there is a piece of information she missed about Callandor. We'll just have to wait and see what it turns out to be.

[Sharaman]

http://www.theorylan...hread.php?t=372

Q: Can Moridin use a male angreal if he channels the True Power?

RJ: No.

 

AFAIK the balefire cross is the only time we've seen a mixing of OP and TP. If I could remember a clear example, I would have cited it.

 

But it is not a male angreal, it's a 'mixed' angreal

 

No, it is a male sa'angreal. It has absolutely zero effect on how much saidar one can channel. It's just not safe to use unless you link with two women. There's no such thing as "mixed" angreal or sa'angreal. They may be possible, but none has ever appeared nor has anyone in the series shown any indication of knowing of such a thing.

 

Sorry, I'm getting my angreals and sa'angreals mixed up, and I'm not making myself clear either.

My point is that this is one of a kind, or perhaps the one surviving example. Cadsuane knows that there is a piece of information she missed about Callandor. We'll just have to wait and see what it turns out to be.

 

Cadsuane's info pertains to its potential use in prophesy.

It's a male s'angreal - which means it can only handle saidin.

It has a manufacturing flaw, which makes it dangerous to use unless the man concerned is buffered by the user being linked to women.

As far as we know, there are no TP angreal.

There is also spoilerish info to infer that

female angreal cannot be used to channel TP.

 

Edited October 28, 2010 by yoniy0
Sorry, just enclosed the spoilerish info in a spoiler box

[Val Mickey]

Unless Callandor was made by a Friend of the Dark, I don't see how it could use TP. Or it was used by one of the Forsaken, who then confessed everything to a scholar just before he was sealed. Plus, if you can channel TP, why would you need an angreal?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Unless Callandor was made by a Friend of the Dark, I don't see how it could use TP. Or it was used by one of the Forsaken, who then confessed everything to a scholar just before he was sealed. Plus, if you can channel TP, why would you need an angreal?

 

Yeah. Only 29 people have had access to the TP. I doubt that they could even make a TP angreal. It has never been mentioned nor even hinted at.

 

Besides, Callandor wasnt made as something special.

 

It was prophecy that made it special, not its quality that made the prophecy.

 

Knife of Dreams tour 28 October 2005 - Jason Wolfbrother reporting

JWB: Was Callandor constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes

 

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

 

JWB: Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?

RJ: The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. (He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.)

 

It was made just like any other sa'angreal, it wasnt designed for something special.